Can SEO firms negatively affect page ranking?

[info346]

About 3 months ago a Seach Engine Optimization firm contacted me and claimed he could get me top 10 listings in Google and other search engines. I indicated that we already did well in many search engines including Google. He asked me for a key word/phrase so he could try it. He tried one in a Google search and our site came up 1st. We repeated this process with a few more phrases, all with top 10 results. When I declined his services he became hostile and hung up on me. Two days later our site did not show up in any Google searches.

Could he have affected our sites ranking with Google or is it a coincidence? We still list very high in other search engines like MSN and AltaVista.

Any information would be greatl appreciated.

[rlrouse]

Without actually making changes to your website, such as adding links to bad neighborhoods, changing your page content, etc., I don't see any way that he could have negatively affected your rankings. My guess is a coincidence.

Have you made any recent changes to your pages or lost some major link partners?

[info346]

I haven't changed the content of the pages that seemed to drop out of google, however, I have added some pages and changed some of the menus that lead to the affected pages. I don't have many links, however, many of the sites that come up high in the same catagories don't have many links either.

Do I need the links to point only the home page or should they point to specific pages within me website.

[rlrouse]

Do I need the links to point only the home page or should they point to specific pages within me website.

To jump-start the site, I would start out by getting links to the home page first. Then the homepage can "feed" PR to the rest of your pages.

After the home page PR has settled in at a decent level (PR4 or 5), then start working on deep links to the the individual pages.

[minstrel]

I indicated that we already did well in many search engines including Google. He asked me for a key word/phrase so he could try it. He tried one in a Google search and our site came up 1st. We repeated this process with a few more phrases, all with top 10 results. When I declined his services he became hostile and hung up on me. Two days later our site did not show up in any Google searches.
How well were you doing in Google before this? How old/new is your site and how long had you been doing well in Google? And about those keywords/phrases - did you have any of those in your meta tags before or after that SEO expert called you? If you aren't showing up in Google for your keywords, who is?

Can you post the URL?

Do you think I ask too many questions? :-)

[info346]

My wesite is www.wctproducts.com . I inherited this site about a year ago from someone who used to work here and he did the homepage. I know it needs some work, but I do this in my spare time and have been concentrating on the lower level pages. We were doing pretty well in Google for some or our products, if fact, our business from the internet has dropped about 40% since the problems with Google arose. I created some links a while ago from som industy directories, however, I just checked my site in Google and there doesn't seem to be any links. Is this the problem.[/url]

[minstrel]

<TITLE>WCT Home Page</TITLE>
Bad title - skimpy - no description at all - nothing here to help people find you. No meta tags or description at all (I know it's Google and people claim it doesn't matter but it might - and it can't hurt).


wctlogo_1.gif
prodlinc.gif
<alt> tags equally nondescriptive and unhelpful... put something in here the search engines can use.

You do show up in Google, although only the home page, which is odd because there are several other links on the home page.

"Your search - link:wctproducts.com - did not match any documents."

"Your search - link:www.wctproducts.com - did not match any documents."

Searching for "wctproducts" gives us this:

WCT Home Page
... E-mail: info@wctproducts.com Tel: 800-WCT-PROD ( 800-928-7763 ) Local Tel:
310-822-5212 Fax: 310-306-9343 13309 Beach Ave. Marina del Rey, CA 90292. ...
www.wctproducts.com/ - 11k - Cached - Similar pages

WESTCOAST TOOL BC LEADING INDUSTRIL & AUTOMOTIVE TOOL SALES
Unit 2 - 285 E. 1 St. Ave. Vancouver, BC. WELCOME TO BRITISH COLUMBIA'S
LEADING INDUSTRIAL & AUTOMOTIVE TOOL SALES, PARTS AND SERVICE CENTER. ...
www.westcoast-tool.com/wctproducts/ WESTCOASTTOOLINTRO.htm - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

wctproducts.com/com_blower_page.htm
Similar pages
[ More results from wctproducts.com ]
...so unless you're related to West Coast Tool, even your URL isn't exclusive.

A google extended search gives us:


wctproducts.com/com_blower_page.htm
Similar pages

wctproducts.com/rodders_menu.htm
Similar pages

wctproducts.com/blowers_menu.htm
Similar pages

wctproducts.com/cable_reel_menu.htm
Similar pages

wctproducts.com/manholestuff.html
Similar pages

wctproducts.com/manholeguard_page.htm
Similar pages

wctproducts.com/rodder_page.htm
Similar pages

...so you see... you ARE there but I guess the question is what would people type in to the search box to find you and how are you helping Google list you in response to those queries?

[info346]

I haven't really concentrated on optimizing my home page because there were so many different keywords for the products we handle. I thought that concentrating on specific product pages would be better. As an example, for the term "conduit rodder", we used to come up number 1 in a google search for our rodder page. We still come up number 1 in MSN, but the loss of google has cut our inquiries on this product in half. Should I concentrate more on the home page? How long can alt tag descriptions be?

Thanks for your input.

[cbp]

I think you have a problem with a lack of links to your site. I can only find one site that links to you (and that site is not even in Google) - there may be others, but I can no find them. Your drop in rankings could be related to this.

CBP

[minstrel]

I haven't really concentrated on optimizing my home page because there were so many different keywords for the products we handle. I thought that concentrating on specific product pages would be better. (snip) Should I concentrate more on the home page?
Yes, because that is basically the domain name and many search engines, including, if I'm not mistaken, Google, start there and work out to other areas of your site.


How long can alt tag descriptions be?
Good question - I'll have to check that. But as I recall at present your alt tag length is 0 so add some that describe your site/services and do your best not to be repetitive... I don't think they need to be long - an expected keyword phrase would be good.

[janeth]

I would start by saying I agree with the above post. You need to work with the site to get ranked for good key words and you also need to have incoming links.

There is nothing anyone can do to your site with out changing information on your site to cause you to loose your ranking.

Also Meta Tag Description
Should be around 12 to 24 words.

[rlrouse]

How long can alt tag descriptions be?

I would re-phrase the question: How long should alt tag descriptions be?

Here is my answer (from both a user and SEO perspective):

Just long enough to accurately describe the image. Longer isn't better IMO, but it's perfectly acceptable to use a keyword or two as long as they're relevent to the image they're describing.

[info346]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

[janeth]

Once again I missed the question I saw the words tag descriptions and missed the alt part sorry.

[simonm]

With regard to sites being adversly affected, there was a case about a year ago with SearchKing who offer the service of getting people top ranking. Something happened, searchkings page rank plummeted and there were threats of lawsuits against google.

Also in terms of your site being very well placed despite the apparent poor SEO. Could you have stumbled upon a bit of a scam. ie. You are approached by an SEO company who have a network of sites - link farms effectively - that all point at your site thus boosting page position. They go to you, not expecting you to monitor your sites position on SE's, offer to get you 1st page ranking - knowing its already there - you say yes, pay up, they then call you back to confirm its all done and keep money.
What you did - and I have also been approached by these people - was say "But I know I already have these good positions" they get angry as they have wasted time and effort and pull the links, your site then drops out of sight at teh next google update.

Bit far fetched but there are a load of scams out there which are very complex - does anybody want to share my lottery prize winnings?

[Media Calgary]

I've worked with Media Calgary Inc. (http://www.mediacalgary.com) for a year and a half now, doing everything from keyword phrase searches, search engine registration, linking to relevant sites, pay-per-click search engines, email advertising and the construction and set up of affiliate sites. The only way I could possibly see a Search Engine Optimization company hurting your web site is if they weren't looking for a low competition keyword phrase that has a high number of hits and linking to FFA sites, which we all know does absolutely nothing for you. Also, if your web site is a business that only deals with Canada or the U.S., it would be pointless to register with search engines that are from Germany, Japan and so on.

[achronister]

Back on the subject of suddenly dropping from the google listings, I would think it most probably occured from Google changing their algorithm that suddenly caused the drop. It could have been something minor you missed before.

I would take a look at your competitors that are ranking high and see what they might be doing that you are not.

Another explination, is the SEO firm that contacted you may have throw you into a bunch of bad neighborhoods. If that's the case, I'm not sure what you could do about it.

Just my two cents!

Aaron