Teenagers...

[Sammi290]

A friend sent me this awhile back...I thought it was hilarious though my kids weren't as amused....

I thought you would all love this one, for those who don't have teenagers and those who are going to get teenagers, the best punishment is out smarting your teenager. Don't mess with mothers....

My son came home from school one day, with a smirk upon his face. He decided he was smart enough, to put me in my place.

Guess what I learned in Civics Two, that's taught by Mr. Wright? It's all about the laws today,

The "Children's Bill of Rights."
It says I need not clean my room, don't have to cut my hair.
No one can tell me what to think, or speak, or what to wear.
I have freedom from religion, and regardless what you say, I don't have to bow my head, and I sure don't have to pray.
I can wear earrings if I want, and pierce my tongue & nose.
I can read & watch just what I like, get tattoos from head to toe.
And if you ever spank me, I'll charge you with a crime.
I'll back up all my charges, with the marks on my behind.

Don't you ever touch me, my body's only for my use, not for your hugs and kisses, that's just more child abuse.
Don't preach about your morals, like your Mama did to you.
That's nothing more than mind control, And it's illegal too!
Mom, I have these children's rights, so you can't influence me, or I'll call Children's Services Division, better known as C.S.D.

Of course my first instinct was To toss him out the door.
But the chance to teach him a lesson made me think a little more.
I mulled it over carefully, I couldn't let this go.

A smile crept upon my face, he's messing with a pro.

Next day I took him shopping at the local Goodwill Store.
I told him, "Pick out all you want, there's shirts & pants galore.
I've called and checked with C.S.D. who said they didn't care if I bought you K-Mart shoes instead of those Nike Airs.
I've canceled that appointment to take your driver 's test.
The C.S.D. is unconcerned so I'll decide what 's best.
I said "No time to stop and eat, or pick up stuff to munch.
And tomorrow you can start to learn to make your own sack lunch.
Just save the raging appetite, and wait till dinner time.
We're having liver and onions, a favorite dish of mine.

He asked "Can I please rent a movie, to watch on my VCR? "

"Sorry, but I sold your TV, for new tires on my car.
I also rented out your room, you'll take the couch instead.

The C.S.D. requires just a roof over your head. Your clothing won't be trendy now, I'll choose what we eat.
That allowance that you used to get, will buy me something neat. I'm selling off your jet ski, dirt-bike & roller blades.

Check out the "Parents Bill of Rights," It's in effect today!

Hey hot shot, are you crying, why are you on your knees? Are you asking God to help you out, instead of C.S.D..?

Sammi :)

[cyanide]

Nice !!

I like it !

ps. hitting the 'enter' key a couple times helps for a little easier reading

[Sammi290]

Sorry about that...I had just copied and pasted the email! I never thought of how it was going to look in here :(

That will teach me not to 'preview' before submitting!

Have a nice day

Sammi

[rocky1]

Copy now pasted on the refrigerator door, just waiting for the step-daughter too come home!

Thank You!

Rocky

[Greyhawk]

Copy now pasted on the refrigerator door, just waiting for the step-daughter too come home!

Thank You!

Rocky

Rocky the tyrant lol I saw that a while back and posted it for my room mates daughter to see. Her reaction was "Boy am I glad you ain't my dad!"

I also gave a copy to her dad. She was not amused.

Greyhawk

[minstrel]

Etiquette Lesson
Erma Bombeck

On TV, a child psychologist said parents should treat their children as they would treat their best friends – with courtesy, dignity, and diplomacy. “I have never treated my children any other way”, I told myself. But later that night, I thought about it. Suppose our good friends, Fred and Eleanor, came to dinner, and …..

“Well, it’s about time you two got here! What have you been doing? Dawdling? Shut the door, Fred. Were you born in a barn? So, Eleanor – how have you been? I’ve been meaning to have you over for ages. Fred! Take it easy on the chip dip or you’ll ruin your dinner.”

“Heard from any of the gang lately? Got a card from the Martins – they’re in Ft. Lauderdale again. What’s the matter, Fred? You’re fidgeting. It’s down the hall, first door on the left. And I don’t want to see a towel in the middle of the floor when you’re finished. So, how are your children? If everybody’s hungry, we’ll go into dinner. You all wash up and I’ll dish up the food. Don’t tell me your hands are clean, Eleanor, I saw you playing with the dog.”

“Fred, you sit there, and Eleanor you sit with the half glass of milk. You know you’re all elbows when it comes to milk. Fred, I don’t see any cauliflower on your plate. You don’t like cauliflower? Have you ever tried it? Well, try a spoonful. If you don’t like it, I won’t make you finish it, but if you don’t try it, you can forget about dessert. Now, what were we talking about? Oh, yes… the Grubers. They sold their house and took a beating but – Eleanor, don’t talk with food in your mouth. And use your napkin…”

At that moment in my fantasy, my son walked into the room.

“How nice of you to come”, I said pleasantly.

“Now what did I do?”, he sighed.

[matauri]

I got emailed that a couple of years ago, and I fully recommend putting it somewhere in full view if you have teens. Whenever my teen even thinks about crossing those boundaries..I point her towards it. Works like a charm! No arguements...peace & quiet :-)


“Well, it’s about time you two got here! What have you been doing? Dawdling? Shut the door, Fred. Were you born in a barn? So, Eleanor – how have you been? I’ve been meaning to have you over for ages. Fred! Take it easy on the chip dip or you’ll ruin your dinner.”

“Heard from any of the gang lately? Got a card from the Martins – they’re in Ft. Lauderdale again. What’s the matter, Fred? You’re fidgeting. It’s down the hall, first door on the left. And I don’t want to see a towel in the middle of the floor when you’re finished. So, how are your children? If everybody’s hungry, we’ll go into dinner. You all wash up and I’ll dish up the food. Don’t tell me your hands are clean, Eleanor, I saw you playing with the dog.”

“Fred, you sit there, and Eleanor you sit with the half glass of milk. You know you’re all elbows when it comes to milk. Fred, I don’t see any cauliflower on your plate. You don’t like cauliflower? Have you ever tried it? Well, try a spoonful. If you don’t like it, I won’t make you finish it, but if you don’t try it, you can forget about dessert. Now, what were we talking about? Oh, yes… the Grubers. They sold their house and took a beating but – Eleanor, don’t talk with food in your mouth. And use your napkin…”

My gawd Dave....I thought I was listening to one of my sisters then! LOL , reminded me of dinners there! (obviously I don't go often!) :-)


Cindy

[minstrel]

My gawd Dave....I thought I was listening to one of my sisters then! LOL , reminded me of dinners there! (obviously I don't go often!) :-)
I know... that's from a handout I give to parents who come to me wondering why their teenagers are so disrespectful and oppositional - and then seem surprised when the teen complains that they treat him like a child and don't respect his/her privacy.

[rocky1]

My gawd Dave....I thought I was listening to one of my sisters then! LOL , reminded me of dinners there! (obviously I don't go often!) :-)

I thought I was listening to Wen there for a moment!

Although I agree with your superior psychological intellect on such matters to a point Dave, one might interject that although we love Fred and Eleanor's company, maybe we want our children to grow up a bit more refined than Fred and Eleanor!

Likewise it is commonly known that children bring this wrath upon themselves. I mean, I'm pretty laid back when it comes to raising kids, I don't ask for much out of them, let them butt their heads against the wall and learn their own lessons in most respects, all I ask is that they "respect public space" in the home, (i.e. don't drop your goodies just where ever the .... you please in passing, put them away so that someone else does not have too), eat what those who have slaved over the stove have prepared for you, (i.e. don't whine "I don't like that!" And, expect a special meal prepared for your little bony ass), and don't lip off to those that support you out of the kindness of their heart, (since I have no fiduciary obligation to my significant other's children, who's father refuses to support them!)

And, I still get....

"I don't like spaghetti! I'm not going to eat that."
"Why?"
"Because it has tomatoes in it."
"It has Tomatoe Sauce in it."
"So"
"You eat Ketchup don't you?"
"Yes."
"You eat Pizza don't you?"
"Yes."
"You eat Lasagna don't you?"
"Yes"
"Same damn thing!"
"No it's not!"
"Yes it is."
"NO IT'S NOT!"
"Eat peanut butter and jelly then. I don't care."
"Mom..... He's picking on me again!"


Why does this child insist I'm picking on her, when she demands that I prepare a special meal, just for her, because she has some mental twist that tells her Sphagetti is not acceptable fare, when Lasagna is, and they contain for the most part, identical ingredients. "This is not McDonald's," I tell her. "Either you eat what everyone else eats, or you're on your own. I was taught to eat what was set before me out of sheer respect for the effort put forth by my mother in preparing such. Either that or you went hungry, you weren't even offered peanut butter and jelly. And, I'm not cooking anything else!"

Likewise there is the incessant questioning of everything without cause or reason. Recently driving down the road there was a rather large cloud of smoke in the distance; quite obviously several acres of dense foilage being burned to clear it; smoke rising several thousand feet in the air, and trailing off for miles. Totally ignoring the obvious, we get the question from the back seat...

"Is that a fire?"

In attempt to levitate this question beyond the point of implying sheer ignorance, I suggested in reply....

"No Chelsea, it is a large group of children running around with lots of them little smoke bombs that were left over from the Fourth of July celebration! Either that, or someone's grilling lots of chicken over there! Of course, it's a fire!"

"Would you stop! Mom.... he's picking on me! He always treats me like I'm stupid."

At which mom blows up about the incessant bickering between the child and I.

So should I say instead, "Do you realize how damned stupid that question was, Child?", so that I am not picking on her, when she asks such ridiculous questions? Because if Fred were to ask such a question, I would most certainly ask him that, and without fear of hurting his delicate little feelings too!

She's blonde, I'm trying to make her grow out of that, before she becomes stereotypically blonde! (And, starts talking to Jello and such.) Unfortunately I hold very little hope of succeeding at this task. My only salvation at this point is, and I keep reminding her... One day she will have children of her own, they will very likely call me Grandpa, and I will effect my retribution upon her when that time arrives!

The other child is a charm, he's borderline of the teenage stage, but he's probably more laid back than I, and spends most of his time glued to a cartoon, a computer monitor, or a good book. Although 2 years younger than his sister, he is much more intelligent. He does not ask the obvious, he generally eats what's set before him, and he learned in the first few rounds of testing the limits with his sister, to put his goodies where they belong, and to respect public domain!

Although they were sired by two different fathers, they were raised by the same mother. Why so much difference Doc? What makes one such a pain in the keester, while the other is such a joy. The most annoying thing about the second child is, he turns the TV off every time he leaves the room! It makes no difference if you're watching from the other room or not. LOL

Not to put you on the spot here or anything, how would you suggest handling a child that insists upon testing the waters incessantly, refuses to listen, and tries to ply themselves between the parents?

Rocky

[minstrel]

Although I agree with your superior psychological intellect on such matters to a point Dave, one might interject that although we love Fred and Eleanor's company, maybe we want our children to grow up a bit more refined than Fred and Eleanor!
Wow... this was a LONNNGGG post... I think we need to talk, Rocky :-)

...except I have to run out and get more food for ther bottomless pits (aka stomachs with feet) that live with me before the stores close.

I'll just make one comment:


eat what those who have slaved over the stove have prepared for you, (i.e. don't whine "I don't like that!" And, expect a special meal prepared for your little bony ass)
The easy solution to that is to simply say, "this is what I've made for supper tonight - if you don't want to eat it, that's fine with me... you're welcome to go make some Kraft dinner or a peanut butter sandwich if you prefer...". That way, there's no need for arguing or power struggles - it's just a simple statement of one of the laws of nature :-)


Not to put you on the spot here or anything, how would you suggest handling a child that insists upon testing the waters incessantly, refuses to listen, and tries to ply themselves between the parents?
I will try to respond to some of the other points when I get back... the "plying between parents" thing is a common but also a tricky issue :-)

[rocky1]

Wow... this was a LONNNGGG post... I think we need to talk, Rocky :-)

~~ LOL ~~ Sorry about that, but the eldest is really a pain at times. With all the problems we have, as any couple has, she often overshadows everything with her incessant attempts at trying to be the center of the universe.



The easy solution to that is to simply say, "this is what I've made for supper tonight - if you don't want to eat it, that's fine with me... you're welcome to go make some Kraft dinner or a peanut butter sandwich if you prefer...". That way, there's no need for arguing or power struggles - it's just a simple statement of one of the laws of nature :-)

Have resigned myself to only that! I gave up on attempts at trying to make her rationalize anything in her argument that the tomatoe sauce in Spaghetti is any different from the tomatoe sauce in Pizza and Lasagna. Or, any other grounds for displeasure in what has been prepared. (i.e. My sinfully having put Italian Sausage in the Lasagna. When even the recipe on the box calls for it!) It appears to be essentially a rebellion against the step parent thing, as it is typically my cooking she argues. (And, no I'm not a bad cook; quite the contrary, in fact.)


the "...plying between parents" thing is a common but also a tricky issue :-)

Understood. And, often one with few if any true answers in resolve. I would assume that a unified position by both parents presents a more formidable front. However, it might likeswise present a seemingly unyielding position, wherein the child might be subject to turn away altogether, which we certainly don't want either.

Actually she's a good kid Doc, don't get the wrong impression, she's very responsible in allot of respects. We just have allot of trouble with her testing the waters at home. She goes to other peoples' houses babysitting and picks up, cleans up, washes dishes, you name it. But here.... everytime you turn around, she's dropped something in the middle of the floor or the table, left it lying in the stairs, refuses to clean her room, messes up her brother's room and leaves it. It's not like she doesn't know better, and when confronted she becomes extrememly argumentative and resentful of your having pointed it out. And, I know she's not the only child that does that either, I've seen it before, in fact I probably did it myself. But, she's at an age now, where it would be nice to head a good bit of it off, and find a bit of respect on our parts, both individually & personally and as a couple & her parents, before she hits those mid-teen nightmares we're anticipating very shortly! There's more to it subliminally, than simply being a slob at home, she's testing us in preparation for what lies ahead! It's nature's way... not?

Rocky

[Greyhawk]

Rocky I had the same problem when I moved in with a lady and her daughters. I was cooking dinner on a regular basis and she would always find something wrong with the meal, very much like you discribed in your post. I finally decided to remedy this by making her help with the cooking chores. She soon experienced the very same treatment from her sisters that she gave to me. It was a leson hard learnt for her but she never made a fuss over what was for dinner again and if she didn't like what I was making she would then make her own but would let me know before hand so that I didn't cook too much.

Greyhawk

[JMac]

Rocky - I could light a fire rubbing my two cents together these days...
I see that food issues don't change from 4years old to 14 years old - when we're talking girls. Boys (as I see you've discovered) will eat anything - anytime - anyplace. Dash a little ketchup on that Tonka wheel and you're all set... Girls - shudder - sauce is not the same, even when it is the same. My older (4) daughter used to eat non-stop... now we're starving her out. Hahahah... <is that child protection I hear at the door?> I AM JOKING! But, things she always liked and anything new (have I covered every possibility?) - "I don't like that" - now, if she doesn't want what we're having, she can have an apple or something equally easy to give her without preparing a "special needs" meal!
As for testing the limits, read the "no change from age to age line" - same here. I get things like "well, you know mom, SOME people call red blue."
???? Who calls red blue? Nothing I say is correct and I'm tired of being put in my place by a four year old!


David - I'm surprised Rocky didn't ask you what Kraft Dinner is! That's what I got when I referred to it that way south of the border. They call it "Kraft Macaroni and Cheese" (Cheese and macaroni, if you watch the tv commercials! :-)) Ahem, may I add that Kraft DINNER is another great Canadian invention, perfect for substitution suppers - if they'll eat it!

Greyhawk - that sounds like an ideal approach for kids who are old enough to cook. Cooking - it's a life lesson - learn it! (And then get started on that pile of laundry!) >:-)

JMac

[minstrel]

Boys (as I see you've discovered) will eat anything - anytime - anyplace. Dash a little ketchup on that Tonka wheel and you're all set...
Not my sons... a while back, my almost 12 year old was eating a McDonald's drive-thru chicken burger (don't ask - once they're all 21, I'll never enter those arches again) in the car. After about half the burger, he said, "This cheese tastes strange." I (foolishly) said, "That's not cheese - it's mayonnaise." The last bite exploded out of his mouth as he yelped, "I hate mayonnaise!"


now, if she doesn't want what we're having, she can have an apple or something equally easy to give her without preparing a "special needs" meal!

LOL - I love that - "special needs meal" :-)


Nothing I say is correct and I'm tired of being put in my place by a four year old!
uh-huh... like you have a choice...


They call it "Kraft Macaroni and Cheese" (Cheese and macaroni, if you watch the tv commercials! :-)) Ahem, may I add that Kraft DINNER is another great Canadian invention, perfect for substitution suppers - if they'll eat it!
Odd... since it has no real cheese in it... and we're not even sure about the ingredients in the noodles... but kids do seem to eat large quantities of it, whatever it is...

[rocky1]

Rocky I had the same problem when I moved in with a lady and her daughters. I was cooking dinner on a regular basis and she would always find something wrong with the meal, very much like you discribed in your post. I finally decided to remedy this by making her help with the cooking chores.

That did slow it down for a while, then little brother did the complaining routine, like she does, and she quit cooking!


I get things like "well, you know mom, SOME people call red blue."

I have experienced very similar events! No longer does she receive help with homework on account of it as well! I simply stated, I did not ask to help you with your homework, I was asked to help you with it. If you don't want the answers I offer, then you should read the book because the answers to the open book quiz you are taking are contained therein! I know I just found them!



David - I'm surprised Rocky didn't ask you what Kraft Dinner is! That's what I got when I referred to it that way south of the border. They call it "Kraft Macaroni and Cheese"

If you look up there in that long winded post of mine you'll note I do cook, (I've never head butted anyone dancing either), and, it says "Kraft Dinner" on the box! Along with Cheese & Macaroni, of course. ~~ LOL ~~



Ahem, may I add that Kraft DINNER is another great Canadian invention

Don't suppose they've had it hooked up to life support checking for brain waves too by chance?

Rocky

[mikmik]

Funny thing, really, I was reviewing my 'notes' when I found this 'guide' that seems apropriate to this phase of the thread:
Rules Kids Won't Learn at School

Unfortunately there are some things that children should be learning in school, but don't. Not all of them have to do with academics. As a modest-back-to-school offering, here are some basic rules that may not have found their way into the standard curriculum.

Rule #1. Life is not fair. Get used to it. The average teen-ager uses the phrase "it's not fair" 8.6 times a day. You got it from your parents, who said it so often, you decided they must be the most idealistic generation ever. When they started hearing it from their own kids, they realized Rule #1.

Rule #2. The real world won't care as much about your self-esteem as your school does. It'll expect you to accomplish something before you feel good about yourself. This may come as a shock. Usually, when inflated self-esteem meets reality, kids complain that it's not fair. (See Rule No. 1)

Rule #3. Sorry, you won't make $40,000 a year right out of high school. And you won't be a vice president or have a car phone either. You may even have to wear a uniform that doesn't have a Gap label.

Rule #4. If you think your teacher is tough, wait 'till you get a boss. He doesn't have tenure, so he tends to be a bit edgier. When you screw up, he is not going ask you how feel about it.

Rule #5. Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your grandparents had a different word for burger flipping. They called it opportunity. They weren't embarrassed making minimum wage either. They would have been embarrassed to sit around talking about Kurt Cobain all weekend.

Rule #6. It's not your parents fault. If you screw up, you are responsible. This is the flip side of "It's my life," and "You're not the boss of me," and other eloquent proclamations of your generation. When you turn 18, it's on your dime. Don't whine about it or you'll sound like a baby boomer.

Rule #7. Before you were born your parents weren't as boring as they are now. They got that way paying your bills, cleaning up your room and listening to you tell them how idealistic you are. And by the way, before you save the rain forest from the blood-sucking parasites of your parents' generation try delousing the closet in your bedroom.

Rule #8. Life is not divided into semesters, and you don't get summers off. Nor even Easter break. They expect you to show up every day. For eight hours. And you don't get a new lease on life every 10 weeks. It just goes on and on.

Rule #9. Television is not real life. Your life is not a sitcom, nor a soap opera. Your problems will not all be solved in 30 minutes, minus time for commercials. In real life, people actually have to leave the coffee shop to go to jobs. Your friends will not be perky or as polite as Jennifer Aniston.

Rule #10. Be nice to nerds. You may end up working for them We all could.

Rule #11. Enjoy this while you can. Sure, parents are a pain, school's a bother, and life is depressing. But someday you'll realize how wonderful it was to be kid. Maybe you should start now.
I am also fond of telling someone who's in that "poor me" victim role and reveling in the attention, be it good or bad - " The thing about a persons problems is : 90% of the people you tell them to, don't care that you got 'em and the other 10% are glad that you do!!"


It can brutal, rocky1, but you could try to ignore her and maybe she'll give up when she realizes that she can't get to you, for in reacting you GIVE her power over you - the ability to make you mad etc.


On the other hand, she may be deeply hurt and scared like I was when my parents separated, and see any man that her mom values as a threat to her relationship with her mom, and becoming totally forgotten and alone. She already has the example of her parents breakup as proof that any relationship, since even one as invioloble as a marraige (the most secure commitment possible, in my eyes then), can't be secured, then especially the one with her mom is vulnerable. She's scared shitless inside rocky1!!! I know

[minstrel]

It can brutal, rocky1, but you could try to ignore her and maybe she'll give up when she realizes that she can't get to you, for in reacting you GIVE her power over you - the ability to make you mad etc.
Yes, except for the "ignore" part - you don't want to ignore her: you just want to make it clear that you won't engage in the power struggle. One preety good option is to just be direct - "We're not having a discussion or conversation here if you're calling me names or yelling at me or insulting me or trying to intimidate me. As soon as you start doing that, I stop listening. As soon as you want to actually converse with me or discuss this again, I'll be ready to listen." Of course, you also have to actually do that - listen, I mean - which isn't always easy to do when you think you already know what s/he is going to say and you already are pretty sure you disagree with it. But that's precisely when you have to shut up and listen - you can always disagree at the end, and that way you at least demonstrate your willingness to listen to his or her point of view.


On the other hand, she may be deeply hurt and scared like I was when my parents separated, and see any man that her mom values as a threat to her relationship with her mom, and becoming totally forgotten and alone. She already has the example of her parents breakup as proof that any relationship, since even one as inviolable as a marriage (the most secure commitment possible, in my eyes then), can't be secured, then especially the one with her mom is vulnerable. She's scared !bleep!less inside rocky1!!! I know
Well said, mikmik. The first overt emotion you are likely to see in many teenagers is anger - learn to look beyond it because at least half the time that anger is a mask for sadness, depression, fear, anxiety, worry, hopelessness, helplessness, shame, guilt, self-disappointment, or a host of other "weak" feelings s/he doesn't want you to see.

[rocky1]

Understood on the emotional roller coaster involved in separation guys, I rode that storm out when the first wife and I were dating in high school, and her parents divorced. I have therefore been understanding of her emotions and problems in that respect. And, yes we did see all of that 4 years ago when I and her mother first moved in together.

Then for a while, she and I were best of buddies, and now we've developed a whole new batch attitude for some reason! If anything I would say it's because her mother and I have too good a thing going at this point, and she feels that her and her mother's relationship is threatened, because we are too stable.

More or less ignoring the child's presence has seemed to help, to some extent, as she does realize she is not in control and can't get too me. Likewise blowing a gasket and implementing inverse whining to mom about her daughter's horse$#!+ attitude just recently, has helped as well! I believe mother likely informed her that the 4 hours she spent doing homework that night, could have been done in about 2 minutes had she not severely pissed off the old fat guy with the knowledge to access the US Census Bureau website, and find all the statistics and info she needed, and then a bunch! After mom asked a time or two, I refused to offer my assitance and just sort of told her that her daughter was very blunt in refusing my help, and if she wanted to be that way, I certainly wasn't going out of my way to show her where the info was at, to make her life any easier! That if she wanted to do it the hard way it was no skin off my nose and if affection were to be displayed in regard to anyone's posterior, it certainly was not going to be I on her part!

At any rate.... You know it's bad when an 11 year old male child wanders around behind his sister picking up her mess, and shaking his head about how irresposible she acts! I suggested this evening when he came down with 4 candy wrappers, a napkin, 2 bowls, a glass, a spoon, and a plate from her room, that he just start piling it all under her blankets and pretty soon she wouldn't be able to climb into bed. That maybe then she'll figure it out when she has to sleep on the floor! Of course we're subject to run out of dishes before she figures out what the lumps in her bed are too!


Rocky

[carju1]

Rocky,

Kids eating can always be a problem. However by the time you get to you're fourth child you learn one simple fact, Kids don't starve. My wife is a superb cook and we always eat a 'proper' cooked dinner at the table every evening. The food rules are simple - unless the meal is of a type a child may reasonably not be expected to like (this covers hot spicy food and very strong flavours only and in these cases an alternative no sauce or mild version is always available), then they either eat what is servered or they don't, no pressure. However if they don't eat what is served then they don't get anything else before bed, other than the usual option of cereals for supper.

Its amazing that after a few "I don't like" attempts usually repeated every few months they learn the food is actually good and its a heck of a lot better than being hungry. None of the children have starved yet and the elder 2 (both now in there early 20's) have wide ranging food tastes. The other advantage is if you notice thay are regularly complaining about one food substance (for some reason our 18 yr old dosen't like mushrooms) after a while you can actually believe they don't like something and adjust your cooking as needed.

Julian

[minstrel]

for a while, she and I were best of buddies, and now we've developed a whole new batch attitude for some reason!

She's 13 now... that's the reason. Cognitive, physical, and hormonal changes that result in her feeling happy one moment and miserable or angry the next and even she doesn't know why. That's pretty much all there is to the story...

The good news is in about 5 years she'll be human again... and complaining about her little brother.

[matauri]

Rocky...I have what I consider to be the perfect teen. She is never a problem. But....once a month some demon possesses her.... so it's head for the hills :-)


Cindy

[minstrel]

Rocky said:

"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup!"
Did you learn this from that teenager? :-)

I forget who it was who commented that it was important to make friends with your children because they were the ones who would choose your retirement home.

Think of Grandpa Simpson, whose son Homer J. said, "Old people don't need companionship. They need to be isolated and studied so that it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for our personal use."

[rocky1]

Carju ~ per your post, we have much more in common than one could ever imagine, my friend! That was my father's implied theory as well, and one which I attempted to enforce. However, the child's mother was not altogether happy with my forcing her children to eat something they didn't want to eat. She initially suggested that it was because my cooking was too elaborate, and the children might find it undesirable because they were not used to such cuisine. Daughter finding mother on her side in that argument however, took it to the next level and began whining about a few of the more mundane meals mother fixed. Simply because she thought she should have fixed something different on a particular day, (Whilst I sat back and chuckled at the Dinner and Whine tables having being turned!), and since then the Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwich routine has been allowed an acceptable option by Mom! Even Mom will no longer go out of her way to prepare special needs meals.


She's 13 now... that's the reason.

Was that the parent or the psychologist talking there Doc? ~~ LOL ~~



The good news is in about 5 years she'll be human again... and complaining about her little brother.

The good news is... with her present attitude, she'll have figured everything in the world out, (or at least think she has), and be living elsewhere by then! And, my life will have returned to normal sooner than that.


Rocky...I have what I consider to be the perfect teen. She is never a problem. But....once a month some demon possesses her.... so it's head for the hills :-)

Even the child's mother dreads the onset of this minor little gender related issue, given her existing disposition! Of course on the other hand, Mom's usually pretty mellow once past the PMS stage, so maybe the daughter has all of this backing up in her, and she'll mellow out once the dam bursts and she finally matures!

Rocky

[carju1]

Rocky,

I think the attitude really does depend on the child and there make up.

I gained my step-daughter when she was 9 and she was great until 13 then hell on wheels until 16, she changed school and attitude to semi-human about then and since university she has been a normal human being - give 'em a mortgage and they have to get real. She at least was consistent and was hell to her mother as well.

My step son is a year younger than his sister, He was always troublesome, left home and school at 16, drifted around the world for a few years then at 20 got robbed of everything whilst in Ibiza. I sorted him out flights and he lived with us again for nearly a year and was seni-human. He is now a shift manager for a bar chain and whilst still only semi-human is doing fine.

My son is just 18 is so laid back he slept through puberty and hasn't really been a days trouble in his life. His biggest problem is too laid back for his own good.

My daughter is 9 and in my highly biased opinion is a fantastic loving child. However she has the most fully formed personallity of them all at her age and I'm betting she will be sheer murder if she gets puberty in a bad way as her determination knows no bounds.

Incidently after our food conversation I asked the 9yr old what her 'perfect' meal would be. The answer.... Start with truffle pate and biscuits, then smoked salmon sushi with sweet champagne, main course of rack(s) of lamb and for dessert she final showed she is only 9 and wants cherry jelly (thats jello to Americans). Proving the rule that if you only feed them adult food they even come to like it:) I hope who ever she marries has money as she has very expensive tastes in virtually ever aspect of life. (For the ladies on here please read the last sentance as 'I hope she manages to get a really good job so she can support herself and her partner in the way she wants' :)

Julian

[Greyhawk]

I hope who ever she marries has money as she has very expensive tastes in virtually ever aspect of life. (For the ladies on here please read the last sentance as 'I hope she manages to get a really good job so she can support herself and her partner in the way she wants' :)

Julian

Good save and the judges say
5.9 5.9 6 5.8 5.9

Greyhawk

[matauri]

LOL @ Julian :-)

Reminded me of a friend who just got married. Before he married her he couldn't spend enough on her. Since he has been married I often have him complaining to me about how much money she spends. "Why does she have to go to hairdresser to have hair done, why can't she do it hereself? Why does she have to have her legs waxed, why can't she just shave them? Why do my clothes cost half as much as hers & I dont need them as often?"

Sound familiar guys??? The courtship & honeymoon end pretty quick don't they? ;-)

And poor Rocky....don't fret my dear....thank your lucky stars that your not raising a teen here. They have more rights than the original post. I know of a step-father that got taken to court (& lost) for entering his daughters room without being given permission. Here they call that tresspassing..you have to be invited in! One of the most pathetic laws we have ever had passed. Another got taken to court for taking a 4yr girl into the mens toilets to go, because he didn't want her going into an empty females toilet alone.

Unfortunately fathers get a bum wrap. I am the first to admit it. Those few drop kick paedophiles & kid bashers tarred every father. And being teenagers, they will take advantage of every loophole law accorded to them.

But I agree with Julian, wait till she gets her first car & mortgage....see how much she needs you then :-)


Cindy

[rocky1]

Incidently after our food conversation I asked the 9yr old what her 'perfect' meal would be. The answer.... Start with truffle pate and biscuits, then smoked salmon sushi with sweet champagne, main course of rack(s) of lamb and for dessert she final showed she is only 9 and wants cherry jelly (thats jello to Americans). Proving the rule that if you only feed them adult food they even come to like it:) I hope who ever she marries has money as she has very expensive tastes in virtually ever aspect of life. (For the ladies on here please read the last sentance as 'I hope she manages to get a really good job so she can support herself and her partner in the way she wants' :)

Long as she wanted to eat the Jello and not talk to it, I'm up with that!!! ~~ LOL ~~ And, I certainly agree, she amazing tastes for a 9 year old. My problem child prefers a handful of chips or cookies as a rule. Although her tastes seem a bit on the expensive side now however, one might be surprised how much they change when she's the one footing the bills for such, as you also point out!


And poor Rocky....don't fret my dear....thank your lucky stars that your not raising a teen here. They have more rights than the original post. I know of a step-father that got taken to court (& lost) for entering his daughters room without being given permission. Here they call that tresspassing..you have to be invited in! One of the most pathetic laws we have ever had passed. Another got taken to court for taking a 4yr girl into the mens toilets to go, because he didn't want her going into an empty females toilet alone.

Yes, it certainly sounds as if your legal system in Australia is even farther removed from reality than here! One has to wonder how anyone could be charged with trespass in a room they owned. Quite likely considered that it was provided the child as a condition to living arrangements between the parents. In such matters I think I would have to simply say, "No problem, your lease has been terminated, and the new tennant will be moving in next week. See Ya! What you didn't see that clause in your contract?"

Don't think we'll have that sort of trouble! Although I have heard a few whines about my complaints on the condition of her room at times. "What was he doing in my room?" I just sort of informed her that the rubbish heap she lived in, had exceeded the rooms capacitiy to hold it and had spilled into the hallway! And... Not to worry, that I had expended enough effort to wade much deeper than sticking my head through the doorway!

As for "being teenagers and taking every loophole the law affords them," they're only guilty of being smart enough to find an attorney trying to make a name for himself. Thereafter the attorney is guilty!

Rocky

[Sammi290]

WOW...it seems teens all over are basically the same....

Rocky, my eldest son has the same dislike of spaghetti sauce...its gross...BUT everything else he eats is covered with ketchup and like you I tried to show him the similarities between the sauce and ketchup...to no avail...I know NOTHING!....lol

My youngest will eat anything and everything...go figure.

My biggest problem now is they hate each other...they can't be in the same room without WW3 erupting! I seriously hope its just a stage they are going through and that they get out of it quick....

Sammi :)

[rocky1]

WOW...it seems teens all over are basically the same....

That's becoming very apparent! However, to find another with the same irrational dislike for spaghetti sauce, is too much! ~~ LOL ~~

Thanks Sammi, I needed that one!


Rocky

[minstrel]

"When you're a parent, you're a prisoner of war. You can't go anywhere without paying someone to come and look after your kids. In the old days, babysitters were paid about 50 cents an hour, and they'd steam clean the carpet and detail your car. Now they've got their own union. I couldn't afford it, so I asked my mother to come over. The sitters called her a scab and beat her up on the front lawn." - Robert G. Lee

[rocky1]

They still aren't paid enough Minstrel. When you think about it... would you go watch someone else's children, break up the fights, clean up the spaghetti in the carpet, change the soiled diapers, try to entertain them all evening, and fight with them until they fell asleep for $2/hour?!

Not Me Dude! You couldn't pay me enough!

Rocky

[minstrel]

They still aren't paid enough Minstrel. When you think about it... would you go watch someone else's children, break up the fights, clean up the spaghetti in the carpet, change the soiled diapers, try to entertain them all evening, and fight with them until they fell asleep for $2/hour?!
*cough*

(psssttt... the last time they made $2 an hour was... well... let's just say LONG before they were unionized)

[rocky1]

I think they get about $3/hour for the first one around here, and then $2/hour for each additional one after that. With the day care laws we have in place down here, a single person can keep up to about 5 so that's up to $15/hour to watch rug rats!

Most folks do however pay a little more for the babysitter in the evening. But not much more!


Rocky

[mikmik]

You're getting close -
I think they get about $3/hour for the first one around here, and then $2/hour for each additional one after that. With the day care laws we have in place down here, a single person can keep up to about 5 so that's up to $15/hour to watch rug rats!

Most folks do however pay a little more for the babysitter in the evening. But not much more!
It's not the wages that are so good, it's the fringe benifits. It's unlimited access to all food, free long distance, a place to make out without parental 'supervision', free pay-per-view, why - who needs Disneyland?

[rocky1]

Well once you get the munchkins off to bed the couch and stereo beats hell out of the back seat of the car and AM Radio fadin in and out and killin the mood at all the wrong moments!

Rocky

[carju1]

Ye gads Rocky no chance at getting a baby sitter round here for anywhere near that price.

Standard here is (rough exchange translation) $7.50 per hour and its $10 per hour after midnight. Thats flat rate at your house regardless of the number of kids involved.

Julian

[matauri]

Wages so suck over there ! Babysitter here gets about $10p/h till midnight...then I think it hikes up to about$15p/h. Pretty sure weekends, etc are time & half & double time.

But babysiters also have to have police clearances here.


Cindy

[Sammi290]

I for one am glad that I don't have to pay babysitters anymore....

My oldest babysits on occasion (when he needs money...) and he gets approx. $4-5/hr.


Sammi :)

[rocky1]

Thou hast to remember I'm in ND folks! Land of the tightwads, home of the cheapskates, birth place of minimum wage jobs and wondering why we can't keep our young people here. It's been stated by several in high positions in our state government that our single largest export commodity is well trained young college graduates, why.... because they can't find a job here that will pay off their college loans before they have grand-children!


Rocky

[JMac]

For a couple of days, during a huge workload crunch, I paid a friend's daughter to come over and play with one of the kids. I didn't leave the house, I parked myself in front of the computer and they played about 20 feet away from me. I just needed to not be hearing "I'm hungry" or "I'm bored" and still know she wasn't parked in front of the TV.

For that luxury, I paid my friend's daughter (who is 11) $5 an hour. Sure, there were no fringe benefits (as mentioned by MikMik) but there wasn't a huge level of responsibility either.
I have yet to contemplate leaving the kids with someone - with the exception of that fateful badminton evening, from which I've fully recovered, when the girls played here with their best friends and my friend watched them. That was an exchange - she went out on her own later that week while I watched the kiddies.

Babysitters have to have police clearances, Matauri? No matter how old they are - or is there a minimum age for babysitting? How can people afford that rate? Still, it must feel a little safer, leaving your kids with someone cleared by the police.

JMac

[Sammi290]

We have babysitting courses, I think the cost is somewhere around $85 but do take a CPR course and they have to be 12 and older.

I understand what you mean though JMac...my kids babysitters were (and still are for overnighters) Grandma & Grandpa!

Sammi :)

[matauri]

Babysitters have to have police clearances, Matauri? No matter how old they are - or is there a minimum age for babysitting? How can people afford that rate? Still, it must feel a little safer, leaving your kids with someone cleared by the police.

I dont think I have known of anyone for a long time that has had a babysitter without a police clearance. I know there are prob people out there that still get the backyard sitters, but for the most part I think people have the legitimized ones. There were just too may instances of child abuse so people became more wary who they left their kids with. Thats why unless its friends or rellies, I think most people go with the babysitting agencies.

Many years ago when my daughter was a tot & I was working fulltime, I thought I would just advertize in newspaper for a babysitter. I interviewed dozens until I thought I had found a good one. I was lucky that on the first day she worked for me I came home at lunchtime just to see how things were going. I walked in to find my daughter playing with an overturned garbage bin & the babysitter asleep on lounge drunk. Consequently I never used anything but an agency sitter after that. It was worth paying the higher rates just for peace of mind.


Cindy

[carju1]

The Grandparent thing is good unless you live in a foreign country and its a bit far to fly them in for babysitting duties.

The system the expats have here is that the 3 international schools in the Hague area issue a list of pupils that have passed the childcare first aid course and will babysit (plus what languages they speak - which is handy when you have over 100 different nationalities attending the schools). They also have a list a guidelines both parties should stick to - no boy/girlfriends allowed to help, telephone agreements if you are going to be late back, fixed rates, transportation agreements etc. Makes you worry a bit less as both the babysitters and the baby sat parents.

Julian

[wenwilder]

My oldest son is a 'certified' babysitter. In other words he went to a day long class to learn how to babysit. He's learned the CPR, first aid, and how to dial a phone. Oh wait, that was supposed to be who to call in case of emergencies. I'm not sure the course taught him anything that he didn't already know, but he did make new friends, and that's the important thing isn't it? :)

The great thing about my oldest is he likes ALL kids, except his little brother. When it comes to babysitting though he does have a set price - he considers who he's babysitting for and then charges them accordingly. Those with more money get charged more money. (This only worked until I found out about it - such a creative child!)

Thankfully grandma and grandpa are generally my babysitters. Plus I have a younger sister, cousin and aunt who think they need "visitation rights" :)

[matauri]

such a creative child!

Takes after his mum I guess?? :-)


Plus I have a younger sister, cousin and aunt who think they need "visitation rights" :)

I admit to being a bit sneaky there. I used to hold off on visitation rights a little until I needed a babysitter :-)


In other words he went to a day long class to learn how to babysit. He's learned the CPR, first aid, and how to dial a phone.

Intensive course I take it ! ;-)
Puff...1, 2, 3, 4, 5..check pulse. Here's a few bandaids & there's the milk. Press 911. ;-)


Cindy

[minstrel]

Intensive course I take it ! ;-)
Puff...1, 2, 3, 4, 5..check pulse. Here's a few bandaids & there's the milk. Press 911.

I don't know if you remember "newfie jokes", Cindy - they're jokes that make fun of maritimers. Lest this begin to sound like something politically incorrect, let me say in my defense that most of the newfie jokes I receive (like the one below) I get from friends originally from Newfoundland. Indeed, Newfoundlanders generally have a larger library of newfie jokes than anyone else in Canada.

In any case, I was reminded of this one by your description of first aid above :-)

Newfie Paramedics (http://www.psychlinks.ca/misc/newfie-paramedics.jpg)

[Sammi290]

Even though we hear all the horror stories about babysitters,relatives, adults...abusing children I don't think we want to believe that people can really be like that! Unfortunatly it happens...I bet you were glad that you decided to go home for lunch on that day Matauri!

I used to work in an elementary school, the same school my kids went to and I never had to have a police check..just the usual form asking if you have a police record etc!
When I was a Cub Leader, Scouts Canada asked for the police check!
I just thought it was pretty sad, after all the stories you hear on child abuse and pedophiles etc that the school doesn't demand a police check before hiring someone.
It makes you wonder....

Sammi :)

[mikmik]

See, I'd want the one saving the 'head' around in event of trouble, ya, the "smart" one. See how he holds the air from escaping with his free hand? But neither one can be very smart as it's pretty obvious that she's dead already. Ahem. Scuze me...C'mon guy's, it's Miller time. Used to be babysitters, you don't say?

[Sammi290]

GREAT TRUTHS THAT LITTLE CHILDREN HAVE LEARNED:

1) No matter how hard you try, you can't baptize cats.
2) When your Mom is mad at your Dad, don't let her brush your hair.
3) If your sister hits you, don't hit her back. They always catch the second person.
4) Never ask your 3-year old brother to hold a tomato.
5) You can't trust dogs to watch your food.
6) Don't sneeze when someone is cutting your hair.
7) Never hold a Dust-Buster and a cat at the same time.
8) You can't hide a piece of broccoli in a glass of milk.
9) Don't wear polka-dot underwear under white shorts.
10) The best place to be when you're sad is Grandmother's lap.

GREAT TRUTHS THAT ADULTS HAVE LEARNED:

1) Raising teenagers is like nailing Jell-O to a tree.
2) Wrinkles don't hurt.
3) Families are like fudge...mostly sweet, with a few nuts.
4) Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
5) Laughing is good exercise. It's like jogging on the inside.
6) Middle age is when you choose your cereal for the fiber, not the joy.

Have a good day everyone!

Sammi :)

[minstrel]

Raising teenagers is like nailing Jell-O to a tree.

Yikes!

"Don't mention Jello - I did it once - I think I got away with it.." - paraphrasing Basil Fawlty

[minstrel]

"Sound travels slowly - Sometimes the things you say to your kids when they are teenagers don't reach them till they're in their 30s." - source unknown

[Greyhawk]

My ex-wife and I were very picky about who watched our kids. I lerned that tieing them to the chair for some strange reason did not constitute proper care, neither did force feeding them Southern Comfort before I night out. Just kidding people.

But considering that fact that I am the youngest of 6 children, and can remember being left in the car whist my parents went in for a quick pint, I would rather pay the $10.00/Hr and know that they are safe and properly cared for.

Greyhawk

[Sammi290]

Thanks Greyhawk...I had forgotten lol...I remember being left in the car as well when as my dad would have a quick beer...sometimes we would get a coke & bad of chips!

Just thinking of leaving my 2 in the car...alone..(well a few years back anyways) would make me shudder...they would definately NOT sit quietly and wait for my return! Not that they are hellions or anything...just normal active boys (lol) I am sure they would just waltz right in and complaining loudly that they are bored, hungry whatever....

It's amazing how different we were then and how kids are today....

Sammi

[matauri]

Ditto....my parents used to leave us 5 kids asleep in the back of the van while they went to pub to play darts. Now my mother nags me for leaving my 16yr old alone in the house. How times change :-)


Cindy

[minstrel]

Ditto....my parents used to leave us 5 kids asleep in the back of the van while they went to pub to play darts.

Well, yes... but they knew full well that if they took you inside with them you'd all make mental and scare the patrons... :-)

[matauri]

Well, yes... but they knew full well that if they took you inside with them you'd all make mental and scare the patrons... :-)

Dave does this mean I have progressed from incorrigible to mental? Or degressed???? ;-)

It's a bum wrap I say! :-)

Cindy

[minstrel]

Dave does this mean I have progressed from incorrigible to mental?
Not at all - the "make mental" part actually comfirms the "incorrigible" part...


It's a bum wrap I say!
Hoping to ward off the spate of puns just waiting to be released, let me point out that Cindy meant "rap" not "wrap"... :-)

[matauri]

Hoping to ward off the spate of puns just waiting to be released, let me point out that Cindy meant "rap" not "wrap"... :-)

LOL....ok...I concede defeat yet again...a 'bum wrap' sounds pretty painful ;-)


Cindy

[minstrel]

Hoping to ward off the spate of puns just waiting to be released, let me point out that Cindy meant "rap" not "wrap"... :-)

LOL....ok...I concede defeat yet again...a 'bum wrap' sounds pretty painful ;-)

I was thinking more along the lines of one of those fuzzy beach towels - is "wrap" also some sort of exfoliation thing?

[rocky1]

I don't know but 'bum wrap' sounds far less painful than 'bum rap', as that brings thoughts of sub-woofers and large amplifiers, low riders, jeans hanging by one body hair on the precipice of some guys behind you don't want to see ('cause those boxers looked a bit worn!) and music thumping so loud you can feel through and through while someone tries pitifully to recite poetry to it.

Rocky

[matauri]

I was thinking more along the lines of one of those fuzzy beach towels - is "wrap" also some sort of exfoliation thing?
Cling wrap...no
Paper wrap...no
Mud wrap ... ?
Body wrap ...?
Fuzzle beach towell wrap ... ? ;-)



I don't know but 'bum wrap' sounds far less painful than 'bum rap', as that brings thoughts of sub-woofers and large amplifiers, low riders, jeans hanging by one body hair on the precipice of some guys behind you don't want to see ('cause those boxers looked a bit worn!) and music thumping so loud you can feel through and through while someone tries pitifully to recite poetry to it.
Actually, 'redneck' came to mind ;-)


Cindy

[mikmik]

Well, a little 'rap' upside the bum may in fact be considerred quite the opposite of painful for some.
Rocky1, did you know that the style, and I use the word 'style' in it's most liberal context, of wearing the trousers (LOL) 57 sizes to large and 'bare'ly covering the cushions (they actually support themselves and only appear to be hanging from the body) comes from seeing some 'infamous' rapper/singer as he was being released from jail? The pants he was wearing were issued by the 'correctional institute' and were, of course, to large for him. The style therefore symbolizes rebellion, and not the Mahatma Ghandi type, and opression.
Seems they think he got a BUM RAP!!!

[rocky1]

Has anyone ever told you guys that the winter's are entirely too long up there where you're at Mik? You got way too much time on your hands dude!

No... I was not aware of that! Not in the least. Not even remotely. I have no use for rap music, or any knowledge therof, whatsoever.

I only wish the fans of said noise would recall Kid Rock, and get him and all his ugliness off the Country Music Channel, as that's one cross over artist that shouldn't have been allowed to cross over. I mean there has to be limits to some of this, lets face it. You're lying there one minute looking at Shania's belly button, and the next thing you know, you got Kid Rock's ugly mug smiling at you singing out of tune! Talk about nightmares, eh! A guy needs to go see Minstrel in his professional capacity after a few such episodes of that!

Rocky

[minstrel]

Fuzzle beach towell wrap ... ? ;-)
Fuzzle?

[mikmik]

Word of the day:
Fuzzle
I'd like to thank "The Matauri of OZ" for today's submission 'fuzzle' which means "to do improperly or in an unsafe manner". Sounds like when I was walking down the beach during Kelowna's recent heat wave and I was hastily retrieving my pants that I forgot to bring with me to the change room. I didn't want to put my soggy wet trunks back on so I wrapped my towell around me. I guess I 'fuzzled' that right up, because halfway back to our spot-it fell off! And nobody even noticed!

The word also can be used to describe my typing sometimes(blushes) as in "I sure fuzzle up my spelling with typing errers".

Thanks again to 'The Matauri of OZ' who now joins 'Wen 'the one who talks to jello' Wilder' in our submission hall of fame.

Toodles (o;
(I am not under the influence of any substance, nor am I ever, I just was visiting some websites recommended to me by rocky one)

[Greyhawk]

Sounds like when I was walking down the beach during Kelowna's recent heat wave and I was hastily retrieving my pants that I forgot to bring with me to the change room. I didn't want to put my soggy wet trunks back on so I wrapped my towell around me. I guess I 'fuzzled' that right up, because halfway back to our spot-it fell off! And nobody even noticed!


Oh they notice alright and as the next premier of BC I am going to ... oh wait wrong thread. But that might explain the recent outflow of women from Kelowna.

Greyhawk

[rocky1]

(I am not under the influence of any substance, nor am I ever, I just was visiting some websites recommended to me by rocky one)

Was wondering if they was maybe related to you or something? Sounded like fun guys to fish with anyhow! NANA NANA NANA NANA FISHIN!

Think positive Mik... before discovering that site and Greyhawk's comments on Tofina weather being on there, I had not a clue where the .... Tofina or Kelowna were. Now I know! I am in fact wiser for having been there, and thus wanted to share it with you. (And, having been there, let me tell you, that's spooky! Just goes to show that you can learn something most anywhere you go. If you go there with an open mind.)



I didn't want to put my soggy wet trunks back on so I wrapped my towell around me. I guess I 'fuzzled' that right up, because halfway back to our spot-it fell off! And nobody even noticed!

Not sure that the visions of such are doing much for tourist trade out there Mik! I mean I just come up with a map to let everyone know where you're at and you have to bring this up, or... should I maybe say instead, mention this.


Word of the day:



Fuzzle!

My sentiments exactly.

Methinks the poor girl maybe had one too many, in attempts to withstand the sordid temperatures they're experiencing down under! I can hear her now.... Honest occifer, I wasss jist drivin along, mindin m'own biznezz, wen every hic, everyting went all fuzzle, and nesting I know I woke up in the d... hic, in the... burrrrp, in the.... ditch! }:~b


Rocky

[CLBridges]

Per the following article written by Sharon Begley of Newsweek, there's growing proof of why teenagers are like they are. I had originally saved the article off of "brain.com", but I can't seem to find it anymore on their site, so I've posted the whole thing here: If inappropriate, let me know!

Carrie**

***********************

Getting Inside a Teen Brain
Sharon Begley, Newsweek

You probably recognize the species: it's known for making stupid decisions... barely able to plan beyond the next minute... clueless when it comes to reading parents' facial expressions... exhibits poor self-control... seems to think with its hormones more than its brain... all thumbs when juggling several tasks.

Such is Homo teenageris.

But while the adolescent mind has been well documented, the reason kids passing through and just beyond puberty seem to be members of a different species has been a puzzle, though raging hormones and simple rebellion are handy scapegoats. It turns out there's a good reason adolescent brains seem different: they are. Contrary to the notion that the brain has fully matured by the age of 8 or 12, with the truly crucial wiring complete as early as 3, it turns out that the brain is an ongoing construction site. "Maturation does not stop at age 10, but continues into the teen years and even the 20s," says Jay Giedd of the National Institute of Mental Health. "What is most surprising is that you get a second wave of overproduction of gray matter, something that was thought to happen only in the first 18 months of life."

The brain reaches about 95 percent of its adult volume by the age of 5 or so. To get beyond such crude measures, in the early 1990s Giedd and colleagues began snapping images of the brains of healthy kids with magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) every two years. The first surprise came last May, with the discovery that the corpus callosum, the cable of nerves that connects the right half of the brain to the left, "continues growing into your 20s," says Giedd. Although the effect of an immature corpus callosum is not crystal clear, let us simply note that this structure has been implicated in intelligence, consciousness and self-awareness.

Until now, studies of the brains of children and adolescents have shown that their gray matter decreases with age. The rule seems to be "use it or lose it": connections among neurons that are not used wither away, a process called pruning. But neuroscientists led by Elizabeth Sowell of UCLA's Lab of Neuro Imaging found that the story is not so simple. They used MRI to compare the brains of 12- to 16-year-olds to those of twentysomethings. What they found will surprise no one who has a teen or is a teen or just remembers being a teen: the frontal lobes, responsible for such "executive" functions as self-control, judgment, emotional regulation, organization and planning, undergo the greatest change between puberty and young adulthood. They grow measurably between 10 and 12 (with girls' growth spurt generally coming a little earlier than boys'), then shrink into the 20s as extraneous branchings are pruned back into efficient, well-organized circuitry. Giedd's team, using MRI to scan the brains of 145 healthy 4- to 21-year-olds, also "found that the grey matter in the frontal lobes increased through age 11 or 12," as they reported in the journal Nature Neuroscience. "Then there is a noticeable decline. It looks like there is a second wave of creation of gray matter at puberty, probably related to new connections and branches, followed by pruning." Neuronal connections that underlie cognitive and other abilities stick around if they're used, but wither if they're not.

Toddlers are pretty much at the mercy of their parents when it comes to the kind and amount of environmental stimulation they get, and thus which connections remain. Teenagers, however, create their own world. "Teens thus have the power to determine their own brain development, to determine which connections survive and which don't," says Giedd. "Whether they do art, or music, or sports, or videogames, the brain is figuring out what it needs to survive and adapting accordingly."

Things get even more interesting once neuroscientists look beyond the frontal lobes. When the UCLA team scanned the brains of 19 normal children and adolescents, ages 7 and 16, they found that the parietal lobes (which integrate information from far-flung neighborhoods of the brain, such as auditory, tactile and visual signals) are still maturing through the midteens. The long nerve fibers called white matter are probably still being sheathed in myelin, a fatty substance that lets nerves transmit signals faster and more efficiently. As a result, circuits that make sense of disparate information are works in progress through age 16 or so. The parietal lobes reach their gray-matter peak at 10 (girls) or 12 (boys), and are then pruned. But the seats of language, as well as emotional control, called the temporal lobes, do not reach their gray-matter maximum until age 16, Giedd finds. Only then do they undergo pruning. If teens are hardly models of emotional maturity, at least they have a good excuse.

Studies at McLean Hospital outside Boston find that many teenagers are unable to read emotions in people's faces. Brain regions that light up with activity when adults read "fear" in faces are nearly dark in these teens. Their brains' emotional centers light up. But the thinking regions stay dark, as if they are unable to integrate visual, emotional and cognitive information. No wonder looking daggers at a teen hardly gets a rise out of him.

Might hormones be responsible for the changes the brain undergoes during and after adolescence? Research into this question is only in its infancy. But in one suggestive finding, Giedd reports that in girls the hippocampus, which responds to estrogen, grows faster than in boys. The hippocampus forms memories. In boys, the amygdala, which responds to androgen, grows faster than in girls. The amygdala is in charge of emotions like fear and anger.

Together, the experiments suggest that the teen brain reprises one of its most momentous acts of infancy, the overproduction and then pruning of neuronal branches. "The brain," says Sowell, "undergoes dynamic changes much later than we originally thought." Maturity is not simply a matter of slipping software (learning) into existing equipment. Instead, the hardware changes. Those changes partly reflect signals from the world outside, and seem to be a peculiarly human adaptation. Think of it as nature's way of giving us a second chance.

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[carju1]

Hi Carrie,

Excellent and informative article. It's fine to post it all here (I prefer that to flicking between sites) and you credited the author so no problems there. If anyone has articles that are appropriate they can always post them on WPW as most of us enjoy reading tehm.

Julian

[rocky1]

Very interesting article, thanks much CLBridges.

Given information found therein, it would appear our "Clean My Bedroom" branch was pruned at the trunk! LOL

And, I'm not sure where the different tomato sauce in pizza and lasagna branch is found, but that one is severly damaged too.

[Greyhawk]

Giedd reports that in girls the hippocampus, which responds to estrogen, grows faster than in boys. The hippocampus forms memories. In boys, the amygdala, which responds to androgen, grows faster than in girls. The amygdala is in charge of emotions like fear and anger.


Hmm could it be that the amygdala grows faster in males so we can learn faster to fear womens memory sooner.

Greyhawk

[minstrel]

Contrary to the notion that the brain has fully matured by the age of 8 or 12, with the truly crucial wiring complete as early as 3, it turns out that the brain is an ongoing construction site. "Maturation does not stop at age 10, but continues into the teen years and even the 20s,"
(snip)
the frontal lobes, responsible for such "executive" functions as self-control, judgment, emotional regulation, organization and planning, undergo the greatest change between puberty and young adulthood.
Good article! I often talk about this aspect of brain development to exasperated parents of teenagers. In the process, I point out that in Elizabethan England, one was generally not considered for a position of authority and responsibility until the age of 30 because prior to that men were not considered to be sufficiently mature - interestingly, that's probably close to the time the frontal lobes stop maturing, perhaps another example of science catching up eventually to a mixture of astute observation and common sense.

I think (without any definitive evidence) that it's also possible that teenagers today may be maturing (intellectually) later than teens of 20-30 years ago... possibly a nutritional factor, or environmental toxins, or growth hormones and antibiotics in our food supply, or maybe just a socialization effect.

A few years ago, when I was trying to help the relationship between a mom and her gifted 16 year old son and had just gone through the bit about the frontal lobes vs. planning and impulse controls, they looked at each other and burst out laughing - then mom said, "So that's been the problem all along! It's not that you're a bad person - it's just that your brain's too small!".

[CLBridges]

Whatever you do, DON'T let your teenagers read it! My soon to be 18 year old son now uses it as an excuse! And since it was one of my saved articles, it's rather difficult to argue with.. ARGH!

[mikmik]

From CLBridges article quote :
Toddlers are pretty much at the mercy of their parents when it comes to the kind and amount of environmental stimulation they get, and thus which connections remain. Teenagers, however, create their own world. "Teens thus have the power to determine their own brain development, to determine which connections survive and which don't," says Giedd.
A-HA! With rights come responsibilities, so even if your judgement is off because you are a teen, it's still your fault!
An old christmas joke - "Mom, dad? What's a 'manger'?"
"It's like your bedroom, without the stereo."