Virus Security Discussion

[eightfifteen]

How to avoid virus infection:

Step 1: Buy a Mac
Step 2: Use your Mac

[JeanWM]

How to avoid virus infection:

Step 1: Buy a Mac
Step 2: Use your Mac

Step 3...if you do step 1 and 2, learn to read:

http://www.webprowire.com/summaries/781261.html

New Security Hole Found In OS X

The first word is: NEW !!!

[JeanWM]

How to avoid virus infection:

Step 1: Buy a Mac
Step 2: Use your Mac

Step 3...if you do step 1 and 2, learn to read:

http://www.webprowire.com/summaries/781261.html

New Security Hole Found In OS X

The first word is: NEW !!!

[mushroom]

How to avoid virus infection:

Step 1: Buy a Mac
Step 2: Use your Mac

This is not the place this thread is for M$ users that want to improve their security, Wenwilder has gone to a lot of effort collecting this info. I am infaver of alternet OS's but this thread is not the place to promote them.

[flashfast]

Mushrooms contention then is

Cow in paddock A gets sick because the paddock contains weeds. Cow in paddock B is healthy because it is all green grass. Instead of changing paddocks the farmer must spend all his time, money and effort to improve paddock B instead of just moving the cow to paddock A.

I totally agree with eightfifteen. The solution (get a Mac) is a very good one, and more than that, it is valid within the context of this forum for anyone who wants improved security (in leaps and bounds).

http://www.flashfast.com

[flashfast]

By the way, wenwilder's article is excellent and I will utilize for our two Windows machines (only the boss has the luxury of a Mac for now):

[rocky1]

As mushroom stated, this is not an open debate on which operating system is, or is not more suceptible to attack than another. If you think your Mac comes without threat of attack, you are wrong.

NO operating system exists, that is not susceptible to some nature of attack, it is that simple. It's not rocket science folks, every system out there is susceptible to attack, if you think otherwise you need to pull your head out!

The suggestions Wen has offered above, although geared toward the more popular MicroSoft systems, are sound advice for all operating systems. Let's simply heed the advice, and can the debate folks.

[pedstersplanet]

How to avoid virus infection:
Step 1: Buy a Mac
Step 2: Use your Mac
Macs are useful to keep you dry :P


How to avoid virus infection:
Well, heres my top tip to avoid viruses:

1 Do not connect to the internet - well under Windows;

and my second......

2 Take your vitamins. ;)

:)

[hal]

Hello Wenwilder,

You and the other commentators have listed some great anti-virus ideas. Of course, we all need to review them from time to time. However, may I add yet another thought? For the last couple of weeks I have been working with an email client which does not inherently allow viruses to run! That claim instantly got my attention.

Further information can be obtained at
http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird

I have become so enamored of it that I have even written a short instruction manual, which can be seen at
http://www.rocksolidsite.com/mozilla/thunderbird
For a list of functions, see Section #10, "Where can I find...?"

OK. Shameless plug. But since it's a free product, I consider it to be a public service. <grin>

Have fun with it.

Hal

[ReviewGolf.com]

Does this subject really deserve so much discussion.

Buy a viirus protection software and keep your subscription current. Done!

[mushroom]

Does this subject really deserve so much discussion.

Yes

For those M$ users that use their machines on the net (I am not one of them) and with all the holes in M$ software a single solution dosn't work for all threats.

[eightfifteen]

My intent was not to tout one operating system over another. It was simply to point out that an option to avoid a vast majority of viruses is to use a Mac (with a little humor to boot). I understand that no system is perfect, but I have been using a Mac for over twelve years with only one virus attack, and that was in 1998.

The "hole" in the security is a very small one. It requires that the victim have their file sharing on, the perpitrator must a) know the victims password b) seek out and mount the victims hard drive c) download files over the internet.

Personally I'm not concerned.

As the above linked article put it, "Although the newly discovered hole represents bad news for Apple users, the platform still remains relatively unexploited compared with Windows."

I agree Wenwilder did the usual phenominal job with a boatload of information presented in an understandable format. My post was not meant to undermine that in any way.

[pedstersplanet]

Does this subject really deserve so much discussion.
So you were all clued up when you brought your first PC? I wasn't (not ashamed to admit it either)

[mikmik]

eightfifteen wrote

Step 1: Buy a Mac
Step 2: Use your Mac

And also
The "hole" in the security is a very small one. It requires that the victim have their file sharing on, the perpitrator must a) know the victims password b) seek out and mount the victims hard drive c) download files over the internet.

Personally I'm not concerned.

Oh really?

New Mac Security News
Macintosh Security CD, T-Shirts, and Security books

We just added the following Data to our Site:
5.21.2004 News
Advisory Update Apple has released a security update to address the URI issue with the web browser. The Apple security update can be obtained through Mac OS X Software Update panel.

Mac OS X URI handler allows for arbitrary code execution. In this advisory it details the seriousness of this apple security issue and how the URI Helpers can be abused to run arbitrary maliciously. It has been reported while using IE and Safari while surfing malicious websites code may execute the browsers helper handler to run arbitrary code.

4.9.2004 News
A Mac OS X proof of concept trojan has been found showing the potential of trojans in Mac OS X. The proof of concept did not harm anything it was dubbed MP3Concept or MP3Virus.gen and added into the anti-virus definitions for future protection of this style. This trojan contains the file extension of .mp3 although it is not, the icon itself is hardcoded into the trojan and not picked up based on file creator associations. The file itself is a Carbon (CFM) application with the file type of APPL. iTunes should not be able to execute a trojan or virus, and this file would only be able to run if double clicked on to execute it. It does have potential for manipulation to cause harm but at its current state did not, it was a benign trojan proof of concept code.

Many news media sources are reporting this finding to be destructive as if it were a trojan or virus to cause harm. Again it was proof of concept showing the ability allowing the anti-virus companies to have a heads up and protect against future manipulations of the code.

12.19.2003 News
Apple released Security Update 2003-12-19 described to offer numerious security updates such as fixes for directory services, fetchmail, fs_usage,rsync, system root via usb keyboard, file server, and a few buffer overflow issues.

12.17.2003 News
Apple released 10.3.2 accessable via the software update pane in Mac OS X. The update includes enhancements for FileVault and increased security for the system.

11.26.2003 News
Security Advisory William Carrel's Security Advisory is SERIOUS. Mac OS X is vulnerable to Malicious DHCP responses granting root access to remote users. Full security advisory can be found here: http://www.carrel.org/dhcp-vuln.html

11.10.2003 News
Security Advisory FileVault in Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther) does not securely delete the files it encrypts that can be restored with file recovery software. FileVault Security Advisory - Secure Delete after Encryption.

10.31.2003 News
Security Advisory: Mac OS X 10.2.7 and prior along with a USB Keyboard contain a security vulnerability that allows a user to gain root access to the computer by holding down a two key combination during startup that only. Read about root access via USB Keyboard on Mac OS X.

10.28.2003 News
Panther Security Advisory: Mac OS X Panther (10.3) contains a security vulnerability; With access to the keyboard, an unauthorized user can access the currently active screen-locked user environment. Security Advisory - Read full

10.24.2003 News
Mac OS X 10.3 (A.k.a. Panther) has been released. This new version contains many new security features, fixes and all around new applications for the Mac OS X users. Amoungst the new features is the file security utility FileVault, review to come shortly.

9.17.2003 News
New SSH Exploit (detailed here) affects Mac OS X granting the attacker access to the computer as root. This security issue is vulnerable in OpenSSH version prior to 3.7, and Mac OS X is currently only at OpenSSH 3.4. To protect yourself from being vulnerable to this security risk disable SSH access to your computer by accessing your Sharing Control Pane and make sure that Remote Login is disable. Or setup your firewall to restrict access to the SSH port to only allow trusted connections. We will update this issue when Apple releases a security update.

7.07.2003 News
A security vulnerability in Mac OS X's password protected screensaver has been discovered allowing a user with physical access to bypass the screensaver's authentication scheme without supplying a valid password.

6.18.2003 News
IPNetSentryX released by Sustainable Softworks. IPNetSentryX offers basic protection without erecting barriers for the safe use of your Internet connection, this is the Mac OS X version of IPNetSentry. Download and product information available.

5.13.2003 News
Keep your Apple AirPort Administrator Password Safe. An advisory has been released detailing an issue how an anonymous attacker can sniff and obtain the Administrator's password when the administrator logs into the AirPort Base Station to manage while connecting to it via a network or non-WEP enabled wireless connection based on the units method of password authentication. Secure connectivity can be obtained by connecting a computer directly to the computer via a cross-over cable. Full details about the authentication credentials involved with the AirPort can be read in the @Stake advisory - CAN-2003-0270

5.07.2003 News
Mac OS X 10.2.6 is available - Update.

4.10.2003 News
Security Update!Mac OS X 10.2.5 has been made available for update! This version fixes a security issue in Apache 2.0 (CAN-2003-0132), File Sharing/Service (CAN-2003-0198), DirectoryService (@STAKE), OpenSSL (CAN-2003-0131), Samba (CAN-2003-0201), and sendmail (CAN-2003-0161). Details as follows:

Directory Services - Mac OS X and Mac OS X Server contains a security hole in DirectoryServices which allows for escalation of privledges and denial of service attack which is fixed with the 10.2.5 update. DirectoryServices is part of the operating systems information services subsystem, and is launched at being setuid as root by default. Credit for this find goes to Dave G. as noted by Apple's security advisory.

OpenSSL - The new version fixes OpenSSL so it is not suspectable to the known Klima-Pokorny-Rosa attack.

sendmail - contained a issue where it did not adequately check the length of email addresses in the address parsing code.

Apache 2.0 - Fixed a known denial of service vulnerability in Apache 2.0 - 2.0.44, the apache 2.0 service is only present in the Mac OS X server.

4.1.2003 News
PGP Corporation has released PGP 8.0.2 for Mac OS X. This is a free update to all the users of PGP 8.0. PGP Enterprise 8.0.2 for Mac OS X introduces PGP Admin for Mac OS X. 8.0.2 also adds OpenPGP security improvements and a new user interface for signature verification.

3.24.2003 News
Apple has released Security Update 2002-03-24 which is downloadable via Software Update in Mac OS X. This update addresses a few security issues which are vulnerable including Samba's vulnerability of allowing the possibility for an unauthorized remote user to access the system. OpenSSL security fixes are also included in this update, a issue lays within OpenSSL where the RSA private key could be compromised when communicating over certain protocols.

3.04.2003 News
A security vulnerability in SENDMAIL included in Mac OS X has been fixed and addressed in Apple's Software Update. Please update your Mac OS X immediately. ISS warning discusses the issue.

3.03.2003 News
MacScan Public Beta 3 has been released. MacScan runs on both Mac OS Classic and Mac OS X to detect, isolate, and remove spyware. This new version includes bug fixes, new spyware detection and also full administrative scan for Mac OS X.

2.14.2003 News
Apple has released Mac OS X 10.2.4 which addresses a security issue discovered by @Stake known as the TruBlueEnvironment Privilege Escalation Attack. Clicking the link will take you to a page with information on the subject and the advisory. The security issue exists in Mac OS X system prior to 10.2.4 and allows for local users to gain root privledges.

1.31.2003 News
Mac OS X Screen Effects' password protection contains a security flaw which allows for a user with physical access to the keyboard to be able to quit or launch programs while being prompted to enter the password. When full Keyboard access is turned on (toggled on/off by pressing shift+f1) the doc can be accessed 'blindly' although you can not see it, the doc is still functioning.

1.25.2003 News
LittleSecrets allows Macintosh (X) users to store their 'little secrets' in a encrypted format using 448 bit cipher block chaining blowfish algorithm. The application may also optionally interface with your Keychain. Read the Review, See Screenshots and Download Now.

12.20.2002 News
Apple has released Mac OS X 10.2.3 which adds security fixes to the operating system as well as more support and bug fixes. Below outlines the security updates details.

fetchmail updated to version 6.1.2+IMAP-GSS+SSL+INET6
CAN-2002-1383: Multiple Integer Overflows
CAN-2002-1366: /etc/cups/certs/ Race Condition
CAN-2002-1367: Adding Printers with UDP Packets
CAN-2002-1368: Negative Length Memcpy() Calls
CAN-2002-1384: Integer Overflows in pdftops Filter and Xpdf
CAN-2002-1369: Unsafe Strncat Function Call in jobs.c
CAN-2002-1370: Root Certificate Design Flaw
CAN-2002-1371: Zero Width Images in filters/image-gif.c
CAN-2002-1372: File Descriptor Resource Leaks

Apple Software Updates are performed by accessing the Software Update pane located in the system preferences.

12.17.2002 News
Updated MacScan detects, isolates and removes spyware from your Macintosh. SecureMac.com's MacScan is available for immediate download for Mac OS Classic (PPC/68k FAT) and MAC OS X. Visit the link above to learn more about and download MacScan b2. [PRESS RELEASE]

. 12.03.2002 News
PGP 8.0 Desktop and Enterprise is now available. The new version of PGP 8.0 contains full support for Apple's Mac OS X 10.2. In this version a new user interface has been integrated, plug-in for Apple Mail supporting PGP/MIME, and Entourage integration. You will also notice dock and service integration added.

The PGP Disk format is compatible between Mac OS X and Windows. The PGP 8.0 Freeware is also available at PGPs site. Download, Purchase and get more Information on PGP 8.0 for the Macintosh.

12.02.2002 News
SecureMac.com is looking for experts to write reviews for security programs they know inside and out that we don't have reviewed on our site already. Please contact macsec@securemac.com ASAP.

11.21.2002 News
Mac OS X 10.2.2 is available for download, go to the Software Update Panel and proceed to update. The fix includes a few security related issues as well as many bugs in the system.

The security update addresses, 11-21-2002 fixes a security issue related to BIND (Domain Server and Client Library Software) where a unauthorized person disrupt the normal operation.

11.13.2002 News
FWB Privacy Toolkit Volume 1 was released today giving Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X users the ability to encrypt files on their hard disk, folders, and also securely delete files by overwriting the data making it so the data is less likely to be recovered. Visit their site today and see the demonstration, screenshots and technical details or download the Free Trial version.

SecureMac.com News
I'd like to welcome everyone back to SecureMac.com, we've added a new face to the site and are cleaning up many of the articles. Major updates will be seen throughout the site because of you - the readers - feedback and suggestions. Please let us know how you enjoy the new layout and if you find any bugs or issues viewing it on your web browsers.

SecureMac.com has many new features and great news to roll out including a Macintosh security software title for Mac OS 9(+earlier) and Mac OS X alike can enjoy.

10.11.2002 News
PGP 8.0 Beta for Mac OS X has been released. This is something Mac OS X users have been waiting for. PGP is encryption software which is supported for cross-platform use. Note that this is a beta of the software and to be cautious.

9.23.2002 News
Mac OS X 10.2 Security Update - "Terminal This update fixes a security hole introduced in Terminal version 1.3 (v81) that shipped with Mac OS X 10.2 (Jaguar) which could allow an attacker to remotely execute arbitrary commands on the user's system. Terminal is updated to version 1.3.1 (v82) with this Security Update." Updates can be downloaded from the Software Update Pane, Apple's Security update page can be found here

8.19.2002 News
PGP Corporation announces Mac OS X PGP to be released Q4 of 2002. They purchased the software from Network Associates. Good things ahead for the company and PGP product..

8.16.2002 News
The Secure Trusted Operating System Consortium ( STOS ) is pleased to announce the 1st annual Mac OS X & BSD Security Symposium. The symposium is designed for system and lab administrators, programmers, developers, strategists, and other technical staff involved in the deployment and securing of systems. Past STOS events have been the central networking events for the Mac OS X/Darwin security community. The Mac OS X & BSD Security Symposium follows the previous STOS events by providing an environment that promotes the sharing of ideas and techniques with a shared goal of maximizing the security of the involved systems. The addition of Robert Watson's TrustedBSD tutorial and several new papers on various aspects of BSD based operating, brings even more value to this event. Click the link for information, content, and registration information. There is no other event with the same depth of Mac OS X and BSD security subject matter as the Mac OS X and BSD Security Symposium.

8.8.2002 News
Security Update 2002-08-02 is out and includes the following updated programs offering increased security protecting from recent attacks and holes discovered that effected the components; OpenSSH, OpenSSL, SunRPC, mod_ssl. Download via Apple's OS X Software Update Panel or download from Apple's Web Site

7.16.2002 News
Fixed! A security issue dubbed as Mac OS X SoftwareUpdate Security Issue describes how a user could have the SoftwareUpdate Pane install files from an untrusted server by poisoning the DNS in tricking the computer to believe that another IP is Apple's host and install malicious software has been fixed by apple, performing a software update will resolve the issues or visit the depot site.

6.28.2002 News
Mac OS X users should now perform a system update to install the latest security fixes resolving the issues described below which allowed remote users to attack the system.

6.26.2002 News
Security Alert //fixed! Mac OS X systems with 'allow remote login' enabled in the sharing pane of the system preferences should be disabled until a new release of OpenSSH has been made available from Apple in the security updates.View advisory now a new version of the software is out but not available through the Apple Software Updates. This has been fixed - Update Software in Pane

6.19.2002 News
Security Advisory Cisco VPN Client for Linux, Solaris and Mac OS X contains a security vulnerability, when the exploit is executed the vpnclient grants administrative rights to the local user. More information and fix, update and advisory for the mac os x cisco client.

6.13.2002 News
Version 1.2 of SubRosa Utilities has been released and can be downloaded directly here This is the cross compatible encryption/decryption utility workable on Mac OS, Mac OS X and Windows OS. When you delete files use their secure deletion utility

5.30.2002 News
SubRosa Utilities is the newest cross platform security encryption package for Mac OS, Mac OS X and Windows 98. SubRosa Utilities is a suite of security programs to ensuring your data stays secure. The package comes with a file encryption and decryption application, and a File Shredding program to ensure when you say your files are deleted they are securely deleted making it hard to impossible for recovery. Check out SubRosa Utilities today, and download right away.

5.13.2002 News
Microsoft Office 98 running on Mac OS 8.1+ is vulnerable to a exploit that allows malicious code to be run. Microsoft has released a patch that fixes all the Office 98 applications (Excel 98, Office 98, PowerPoint 98, and Word 98) more information can be found on their bulletin Off98URLSecurity.

5.6.2002 News
Apple has announced today that they will be dropping Mac OS 9 development saying it isnt dead for the customers just for development. Steve Jobs said it was time to drop Mac OS 9 at the WWDC today. What does this mean for developers, Mac OS 9 is still more of a secure OS than Mac OS X is. The session advised developers to develop for Mac OS X rather than OS 9. Government agencies still wont use Mac OS X in their environment because of the issues still within it. Mac OS 9 - We hope developers still do their development on it to create a even more secure environment and Apple works on updating and making Mac OS X secure as its previous systems. WWDC up to the minute coverage

4.18.2002 News
On Guard 3.4 offers security improvements to the desktop security software. Apple's Navigation Services and restricting the users ability to store files in protected folders have been added in this version. For update information, download links and a review of On Guard Read more

4.17.2002 News
Mac OS X Update 10.1.4 is now available and includes the following security enhancement for your system:
* BSD-based TCP/IP connections now check and block broadcast or multicast IP destination addresses

The Software Update pane in System Preferences will update the system software with these security fixes and additional updates

4.16.2002 News
Alert! Unchecked Buffer in Internet Explorer and Office for Mac Can Cause Code to Execute code. Anyone running Internet Explorer and Office for the Macintosh should read the information here.



More than a couple of patches here.

I have said it before, you people who are so smug in your sense of security scare me.

I also have noted in the past couple of months that there have been weeks where the top 5 critical vulnerabilities were for Linux, Unix, Solaris, and Macintosh OSes.

The only reason that there haven't been more exploites found ias that there are so few mac users that the crackers and malware authors don't bother.
You see, much of it has to do with ego, and disrupting a very small minority of computers surely has no draw.

I also ask you how in the world we can all afford to buy Macs.

And if we did, then you would not be so safe anymore, brecause then all the attention would turn to Mac OSes, and then it would be the same.
It is not because any one system is inherently more vulnerable to exploit. Every thing I read says otherwise, it is only a matter of attention foisted upon by the scum that get off on destroying.

What are you, eightfifteen, a Mac dealershiP?

This thread should be deleted.

[wenwilder]

Mik that was a bit harsh don't you think?

eightfifteen posted his reason's for liking mac's and offering them as a solution to virus problems. I'm not a mac fan, but it is still a solution. Granted is it not a fool-proof solution, but then there is no such thing and you know it as well as I do.

This is a great subject to debate. EVERYONE has thier opinions on how to avoid viruses. Those opinions, while we may not all agree with them are useful. I prefer not to use a mac, that is my personal preference, but... if someone was to place a question/problem on this forum about a mac and I could help in anyway, I would.

I don't care about the machine a person uses or the operating system. A windows user is no better than a mac user - it is just a machine, just a program, those things can change. It is the person behind the machine that matters. If a persons computer is having problems, no matter what kind or what program they use, I am going to do everything I can to help them solve that problem. Isn't that what really matters?

So while you argue what machine or OS is better I'm going to go back to the subject of security and how to avoid viruses. Because not all anti-virus programs detect ALL viruses, even with updates. Some antivirus programs even install adware and spyware onto your computer while you use them. If you think you know exactly how to be 100% safe from viruses, adware, spyware, scumware, malware, etc. etc. etc. then by all means post the answer. Otherwise, let's hear some of your solutions and idea's because every single one of them is helpful.

Mozilla is great if your IE has been hijacked and you can't run your virus programs because of a virus/BHO or other malicious program. Bohak taught is that trick and others have been stressing the benefits of Mozilla.

Most viruses are geared toward windows so having a mac is more secure for the moment. But viruses are being made to infect macs so that may change in the near future. Purchasing a mac is another solution.

Running more than one anti-virus program on your computer is another solution. Plus checking your machine with online scans from time to time helps catch viruses that your anti-virus program(s) may have missed.

The three most recommended programs to have on your computer right now are Spybot S & D, Ad-Aware, and AVG. You'll see these suggested all over the Internet. They're free to download, easy to use and they work well. They are still not fool-proof though. Nothing is!!!!!!!!

Everyone's input is valuable, even yours mik. You always provide great information, and lots of it.

Hal I have not had a chance to look at the links you posted, I will hopefully get a chance to do that sometime tomorrow. I can't wait to see what you have provided.

I look forward to seeing what other solutions are offered. Let's not turn this into a "What operating system/machine is better" battle, we've seen enough of those.

What do you recommend for virus prevention and why? :)

[mushroom]

Mik that was a bit harsh don't you think?
Everyone's input is valuable, even yours mik. You always provide great information, and lots of it.

You got that right. Am glad to see this part split off from the oringinal thread.

[mushroom]

NO operating system exists, that is not susceptible to some nature of attack, it is that simple. It's not rocket science folks, every system out there is susceptible to attack, if you think otherwise you need to pull your head out!

Heed his words Even a LINUX user like myself understands this, and understanding this is why I am a Linux user.

[steve0]

Hmmm.. my TRS-80 seems to have stopped working.

When I sneezed on the cassette tape.. I must have infected the programs..

[mikmik]

wenwilder wrote
Mik that was a bit harsh don't you think?
No, I don't wen.

I am completely agaianst false information encouraging false senses of security. That is why the internet is getting into such a mess the way it is.

I have had several of these with eightfifteen, and I completely respesct his knowledge. I am not mad, I just want to point out that just because you own a mac, or anything, it does not automatically confer safety.
I stand by my words in this regards.
Eightfifteen wrote
The "hole" in the security is a very small one. It requires that the victim have their file sharing on, the perpitrator must a) know the victims password b) seek out and mount the victims hard drive c) download files over the internet.

Personally I'm not concerned.

"The "hole" in the security is a very small one."

I would hardly call an "extremely critical update" a small concern, or whatever is implied.

I am sorry to sound a bit harsh, and I hope you don't take it personally, eightfifteen. Like I said, you know far, far more about computers than I do.

But to just say "get a mac" offers no pragmatically useful help to the majority of us that cannot afford to go and drop $3000 on a new computer, much less the time to learn a new OS, and also get new software??

And to present a situation as a security paradise, when there are ominous storm clouds gathereing, is also a misrepresentation.

Like I said, eightfifteen, you have good knowledge, but I may as well just tell people to go buy a new computer everytime they get a remote access trojan. downloader.troj, CWS, or anything else that is difficult to remove.

I stand by my words.

I am sorry if I offend, but false senses of security and useless info via chain letters etc. are what get unknowledgeable people into trouble in the first place.

I just merely pointed out the long list of fixes and patches that have be4en issued for Macs, and I didn't even get to the panther OSes either.

Should we promote people to niavely go out and buy three thousand dollar computers because they think that is all there is to security?

I think not.

PS As far as I know, I haven't gotten a virus myself in over a year, On Windows XP or 2K.
My problems now are because of a network DOS trojan that was introduced by my 'buddy' using win98se and going on all manner of chats without even checking his antivirus status.

All the bitstreaming and NT access script was all over his hard drive and behind the router with unlimited access to my machine, and all the time in the world to penetrate.

That is another topic, P2P and IRC and IM trojans and Viruses that I believe is becoming a nightmare as well.

I also saw your apology up there, eightfifteen, and believe me, at this point in time, I would seriousely consider a MAC!!!
With an AV, Firewall, etc> LOL

Thanks, I am having a bad time over here, but I repeat, lets not get complacent with any OS, or any client, email - IM - P2P - etc., okay?

[Dave Hawley]

I think viruses will always written to attack the most popular system. This is why Windows etc gets the most attention.

So, Mac's and lesser used systems are, by default, less vulnerable to attacks.

[mushroom]

I think viruses will always written to attack the most popular system. This is why Windows etc gets the most attention.

I almost agree with you

I think viruses will always written to attack the most vulnerable system. This is why Windows etc gets the most attention.

[Dave Hawley]

I think viruses will always written to attack the most vulnerable system. This is why Windows etc gets the most attention

We almost see eye-to-eye here, except for the words "most vulnerable system".

Hackers, virus writers love 2 things.

1) The challenge
2) Causing as much damage as possible.

This is why I think it's the most popular system that is targetted. It could be said, as Windows is the most popular system (by far), there would be many more working to 'bring it down' and hence it becomes more vulnerable.

[mikmik]

Ya, I agree, to many vulnerabilities for my liking LOL

I apologize again to you eightfifteen.

This is almost for sure what I have
CMOS

It is a dangerous memory resident stealth boot virus. It corrupts the CMOS memory. On loading from infected disk the virus copies itself to the address 9F80:0000, hooks INT 13h and writes itself to the MBR of the hard drive and the boot sectors of the floppy disks. The original MBR is saved to the second sector on the hard drive, the boot sector of floppy disk to the last sector of root directory on the disk

There is tons more I have to go on, but tests I did this aft. with no HDD connectected, and taking the CMOS battery right out, showed discrepancies still.

The only scary thing with this one is that it writes sectors in ALL file formats.

I am not kidding for a micro-second.
I have the screen shots of the file tables from my HDD in RAW
mode, and there are all kinds of Linux, Novell, dos3.1, Xbit this, IBM that.

I hope I am mistaken, but I will try to post the pics.
I have a couple up on my website, but not the good ones yet.

Never can you be too careful.

PS. I got your message, BC guy, I will get to you tomorrow. I am downloading Mandrake as we speak LOL.
2100+ Mb...sigh.

:o)))

Anyways, I am getting Mondo Info here: http://www.viruslist.com/eng/viruslistbooks.html?id=85

[netman4ttm]

If I wanted to cause the most amount of havoc on the Internet, I would attack all those Unix name servers.

I would also point out that my Apple II e never got attacked while I was on Compuserve. Come to think of it my Commodore 64 didn't get attacked either :^)

[mushroom]

popular dose not equal vulnerable

Apache runs about 2/3's of all the web servers in the world, yet the most recent blended atack was done on $M IIS servers, why? They are (where?) vulnerable not popular. With out an exploitable vulnerability no attack can happen.

[Dave Hawley]

Hmmm, we have now switched from computers to servers...

[mikmik]

I hear you Dave.
But in all fairness, some folks here do run servers. However, it HAS turned into a debate about which is more vulnerable, Windows or 'X'.

So:

The Five Worst Security Mistakes End Users Make (http://www.sans.org/resources/mistakes.php)

1. Failing to install anti-virus, keep its signatures up to date, and apply it to all files.
2. Opening unsolicited e-mail attachments without verifying their source and checking their content first, or executing games or screen savers or other programs from untrusted sources.
3. Failing to install security patches-especially for Microsoft Office, Microsoft Internet Explorer, and Netscape.
4. Not making and testing backups.
5. Using a modem while connected through a local area network.

The Seven Worst Security Mistakes Senior Executives Make

1. Assigning untrained people to maintain security and providing neither the training nor the time to make it possible to learn and do the job.
2. Failing to understand the relationship of information security to the business problem-they understand physical security but do not see the consequences of poor information security.
3. Failing to deal with the operational aspects of security: making a few fixes and then not allowing the follow through necessary to ensure the problems stay fixed
4. Relying primarily on a firewall.
5. Failing to realize how much money their information and organizational reputations are worth.
6. Authorizing reactive, short-term fixes so problems re-emerge rapidly.
7. Pretending the problem will go away if they ignore it.

The Ten Worst Security Mistakes Information Technology People Make

1. Connecting systems to the Internet before hardening them.
2. Connecting test systems to the Internet with default accounts/passwords
3. Failing to update systems when security holes are found.
4. Using telnet and other unencrypted protocols for managing systems, routers, firewalls, and PKI.
5. Giving users passwords over the phone or changing user passwords in response to telephone or personal requests when the requester is not authenticated.
6. Failing to maintain and test backups.
7. Running unnecessary services, especially ftpd, telnetd, finger, rpc, mail, rservices
8. Implementing firewalls with rules that don't stop malicious or dangerous traffic-incoming or outgoing.
9. Failing to implement or update virus detection software
10. Failing to educate users on what to look for and what to do when they see a potential security problem.

And a bonus, number 11: Allowing untrained, uncertified people to take responsibility for securing important systems.

And as is shown here, there are mondo (plenty of) tools available for breaching security on this page "The SANS Top 20 Internet Security Vulnerabilities (http://www.sans.org/top20/#threats)":

Top Vulnerabilities to Windows Systems
# W1 Internet Information Services (IIS)
# W2 Microsoft SQL Server (MSSQL)
# W3 Windows Authentication
# W4 Internet Explorer (IE)
# W5 Windows Remote Access Services
# W6 Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC)
# W7 Windows Scripting Host (WSH)
# W8 Microsoft Outlook and Outlook Express
# W9 Windows Peer to Peer File Sharing (P2P)
# W10 Simple Network Management Protocol (SNMP)

Top Vulnerabilities to UNIX Systems
# U1 BIND Domain Name System
# U2 Remote Procedure Calls (RPC)
# U3 Apache Web Server
# U4 General UNIX Authentication Accounts with No Passwords or Weak Passwords
# U5 Clear Text Services
# U6 Sendmail
# U7 Simple Network Management Protocol (SNMP)
# U8 Secure Shell (SSH)
# U9 Misconfiguration of Enterprise Services NIS/NFS
# U10 Open Secure Sockets Layer (SSL)



SANS. That's these guys I am quoting, virus writers and spammers don't like them. MSBlast aka Lovesan virus: "Love you, SANS"

Here is a fantastic resource page:

Security Products Explained (http://www.sans.org/securityproducts/#sws)
While security professionals recognize that virtually everything in security is accomplished with a tool, commercial security solutions can seem like a real morass. New vendors and tools appear weekly, and it can often be difficult to figure out what benefits the many different products/services offer. This simple guide presents the major categories of security products/services, briefly describes what each seeks to do, and provides the names of some products currently in the market place. Where indicated, some vendors have offered free technical white papers - click the symbol to get the white paper. This is a living document - if a product is not listed here and you feel it should be, please email daragh@sans.org with your recommended addition(s).

* Active Content Monitoring / Filtering
* Authentication
* Authorization
* Certificate Authority
* Enterprise Security Administration
* Enterprise Security Policy Implementation
* Enterprise SPAM Protection
* File & Session Encryption
* Firewalls
* Freeware Security Solutions
* Intrusion Detection: Host Based
* Intrusion Detection: Network Based



* Intrusion Prevention
* Managed Security Services
* Real-Time Security Awareness / Incident Response
* Secure Web Servers
* Security Appliances
* Security Services: Penetration Testing
* Security Services: Policy Development
* SSL VPNs
* VPNs and Cryptographic Communications
* Vulnerability Scanners: Network Based
* Vulnerability Scanners: Host Based
* Web Application Security


Finally ( GetNetWise (http://security.getnetwise.org/) ):
You can protect your computer, your sensitive files and your home network from hackers and viruses by taking some basic precautions. If you access the Internet using a high speed or broadband Internet connection (such as a cable modem or DSL), you need to be especially vigilant about computer security and take additional precautions.

Dial-up users should also take precautions and develop the security habits that will protect your computer files now and when you move to broadband.

[Dave Hawley]

My initial comments were only in reference to OS on Computers not Servers. I believe that was the topic until the last post on page 1 of this Thread?

[mikmik]

Ya, I hear you AND agree. Almost all people here (I am assuming)are concerned with home computers.

I started another thread where we can all 'debate' security worthiness :O)

[mushroom]

Hmmm, we have now switched from computers to servers...
So do you believe that servers are not computers.

[Dave Hawley]

So do you believe that servers are not computers

In the context of the orginal discussion, no.

[mushroom]

I think viruses will always written to attack the most popular system. This is why Windows etc gets the most attention.

I almost agree with you

I think viruses will always written to attack the most vulnerable system. This is why Windows etc gets the most attention.

I do not see the word computer in the quotes only the word system

[Dave Hawley]

This is a bit like pulling teeth, while mushroom clutches at straws.

The reason there is no mention of the word computer is because the context of the discussion was about computer OS.

I addition, if you had bothered to read my 2nd post, of this page, you would have seen I have clearly stated what my post was in reference to.

[eightfifteen]

Mik,

Absolutely no offense taken. You are right, we have had our disagreements here, but if everyone thought the same way, the world would be a boring place. Rabid discussion, even heated exchanges are how enlightenment is achieved.

You are right, the Mac is far from impervious to viruses, and many of th postings that you have listed point that out clearly. Even with new security patches being released, that does not indicate an active virus problem, only a need to take steps to possibly prevent a problem in the future.

The simple fact that I have had only one virus on any Mac I have ever used is a cause for some of the smugness that people think I portray. There are reasons for this relative problem-free environment, the biggest of which is that most programming evil-doers want to damage as many computers as they can, which means windows systems.

Although the expense of a new system, software, and learning a new operating system is high, the comment that you would need to drop $3,000 on a new Mac is just untrue. A new e-Mac can be purchased for $799 and a new iMac for $1299. Both of which would be fines systems, unless you are doing massive Photoshop, 3D, or CAD work.

But again, no offense taken. I like a little debate with people I respect. Gets the blood pumping!

[mikmik]

You ARE cool, eightfifteen, I mean as in 'I respect you' :O)

And I want to try a Macintosh because of what you have said about it. It is obviousely good, or you wouldn't like it.

I posted about VmWare, which allows a persont to install virtual operating systems over their host OS. I used it to put my buggy Windows on Linux RedHat, which is buggy, because I cannot update it, and there are driver issues (lol, I need to buy the software instead of borrow it). But I have SuSE now, and will try it there. VmWare (now I sound like a dealer haha) looks fantastic in possibility.

The point is, that the VwWare is $100, and then a person can install as many OSes as they want, Including Mac. It is cheaper than a new computer, and almost like running the real thing.

Not quite perfect, I am sure, because the Mac hardware architecture is different and has some serious strengths in that area also.

Thanks, eightfifteen, you have class, I mean it.

:o)))