How to define my web page look? [Archive]

SyrenSong

11-03-2003, 11:40 PM

Sounds like you've already got a few ideas about how you want your site to look. You just keep forgetting what they are. ;)

Okay. My first suggestion would be to take a small notebook with you wherever you go and take notes as you think of ideas. You could even sketch out (roughly or in detail) whatever comes to mind.

If you just can't really find a design you like, out of all the ones fighting for dominance in your brain, drawing a rough draft of each variation might help you to decide which one you like best. Sometimes it helps to see what you're imagining in front of you. Once it's down on paper, you may decide you really don't like the idea as much as you first thought. Or you may fall in love with the idea and your problem is solved!

If your problem is that you've got too many ideas and don't know where to begin, that's another problem entirely. And a harder one to work through. Again, I think putting things in rough on paper may help. You can always pick and choose through the different pieces you've created to find the specific elements you like best, then try to find a good way to combine them to create a site design you really like.

Maybe if you expanded on exactly what the problems are you're having, that might help other members to give you some ideas that might help you out a bit better....

HTH!

vwebworld

11-03-2003, 11:42 PM

Hmm, what's the "look" you should use?
You can take you cue from your potential customers.
What do they "expect" to see at a website for your
services?

You might check out what others/competitors have for
websites. Although you certainly do not want to look
exactly like a competitor. Being different is good.

Maybe take artistic inspiration from other websites
unrelated to yours?

In general, no matter what the "look", it should
convey a professional, trustworthy, and reliable
presence. A consistant color(s), layout, and
navigation.... etc.

For some ideas you ca also check out some of the
many website templates available (and some are free
too).

~Roland

matauri

11-04-2003, 01:52 AM

My favourite is a graph book & packet of coloured pencils. I will sit & doodle in it for hours. Define the cells on your graph page as cells on your webpage. It also makes for a good story board to plan your site.

I always design the artwork first, and that usually indicates to me which colour theme I will follow. Then its out with the graph book and decide how I want the layout to be for each page. On each graph page I also scribble what the directory structure will be for that page. When its time to sit in front of computer, I have all my table sizes, etc ready to work with. I mock up the first batch of pages, add the body text, then add all the tweeks & whistles.

I find this saves me a lot of time in front of screen, and a sore butt.

Cindy

softwaresubmit

11-04-2003, 04:29 AM

I am posting my very first threat.

I know, I know... a typo. But I just could not resist... :-)

And right now the look of http://www.dndweb.net/ is... empty. You must've uploaded a wrong file to your server. Live support link and that's it. Nothing more.

SyrenSong

11-04-2003, 05:30 PM

Another possible way to look at developing your website is to consider what you want to have on it, before you think too hard about the design itself.

If you want to offer web hosting services and solutions, then think about exactly what sort of information your potential customers would find interesting.

Create a rough flowchart of what you want to include on your site and how you want visitors to get to the information you'll have on your site.

In other words, you could include internal links to various hosting packages, a sitewide search engine, articles on choosing a web hosting company, etc.

Then decide what things are most important to include on your index page. If you're going to have a large site, it might be good to use a three-column layout, rather than two-columns. If you want it to be slightly more casual, then perhaps a more graphical layout would better suit what you have in mind.

From there, you'll need to decide whether everything will be accessible directly from all your site pages, or whether you'll want to have some sort of a tiered layout. If you're going to have a lot of pages, a tiered layout would probably work best.

Then it's simply a matter of playing with the order of things until you find a basic structure that will work for your site.

After you've got the structure of your site defined, you may find that the design will come more easily, because you can throw out a lot of potential designs that just won't work with what you've got in mind for the main purpose and thrust of your site.

Yeah, I know it doesn't sound all that easy and simple, but once you start playing with the pieces, you'll find it gets a whole lot easier.

Think of it like a puzzle. The pieces never really look like they'll amount to anything until you put them in the right places. Then you find a small pattern, and next thing you know, the puzzle's finished! ;)

anuj_pandit1

11-05-2003, 12:39 AM

Hello Kuffal,
I hope you are enjoing.....

Webpage look always depend at the Targeted sector and which resigon you are going to choose.

Suppose your target is UK then you should use Britisg Coloe them and they do not love animation more.
If US then You should follow Us.
If International then you should follow the global look.

Your content should be according the use view because by website you are interacting with those peoples that they dont see you and you have no phyical access.

I think a little information will make youer vision sharp.....

Regards
Alok Kumar Upadhyay

maniactive

11-05-2003, 11:04 AM

I think your question is wonderful, and I think all of the above gave great answers. I can offer none better, but will add one story in the "try not to worry about it so much" vein...

I worked with two excellent website design companies, but you'd never know it from their own sites. The reason? They were so busy working on customer sites that they hadn't refreshed their own look in years, or added ad-hoc bits and pieces in a hurry.

One design team actually groaned in unison when I told them them that I recommended them by sending customers to their site for contact info!

If you're like them, you'll never be completely happy with your own site because you'll be thinking of all the stuff you'd like to implement if you actually had the time!

Remember a few old adages: 1) the cobbler has no shoes. 2) The best barber in town has the worst haircut.

Grins,

adposter

11-05-2003, 12:52 PM

Hi,

I just signed up to this forum, and here I am posting my very first threat. OK, my problem is that I have ideas whenever I am not in front of my computer, but when I am here, in front of this screen I am running out of them.

I am going to start my own web hosting and web solutions company, but ehh, even if it sounds a little bit silly I don't really know how to make my webpage to look. Is there a way, method or some steps someone needs to think about when defining a webpage look ?

I am really very lost, can someone please help me ?

Thanks,

If you want to save some time working on how your site would look like, you can of course check out ready made templates that you can just modify on your own. There are lots of sites there that offer such service. Again time is critical, if you have already defined the services you'll provide and you need to launch ASAP, then I would suggest, getting a ready made template for now and start launching and until you come up with the design you yourself made at least your services are already online and people can see it. The thing is, getting online is not easy, although you're up online you need to let people know you are there and that takes time. So right now, if you're still on the planning process of getting online although you know the kind of services you will provide, you're missing a lot of time. You need to get it up there ASAP or you'll miss out. Anyways, that's my opinion. Goodluck!

Jon

thusmann

11-05-2003, 01:17 PM

Sometimes, it is best to start with something that has been proven and fits within your ideals. I really enjoy http://www.4templates.com as a resource for great templates, as well as inspiration!

Many of their templates are made especially for hosting companies...

AdeptDeveloper

11-05-2003, 01:24 PM

Great thoughts from everyone. Just one thing to add...

My biggest complaint with web/graphic designers is that most of them design the site first and then retro-fit content, navigation and usability when in fact, those three items are more important to most businesses than the graphics. Content could be arguably less import due to the nature of website content (it's skimmed at best, never read).

My point being, you should focus on the content and usability before graphics. For instance, if you have a really deep website such as Microsoft. You should spend a lot more time figuring out where your content lives on the web server(s) and how your visitors will be able to find that content. You may come up with a top navigation with drop down menus for main categories and each sub category has a navigation on the left. In addition, there might be a search box at the top of every screen. This sounds elementary, but the sound fact is it is, but it's ignored anyway until some cool graphics have been designed. I've seen it happen countless times where a designer designs a really great looking site, but it's too restrictive for the type, depth and amount of content the site has.

One thing we do at my company is take 11x17 paper and draw out each screen including: graphics, navigation, links, text, etc. Then we act as if we are the user by starting on the Home Page and arranging our pieces of paper in order as we expect them to traverse the site. When we think it's usable, we start designing the graphics. Of course, all this takes a lot of time in the beginning but 1 hour of planning will save 9 hours of development.

-Steve

fstfrd64

11-05-2003, 01:24 PM

Wouldn't a style sheet be the best way to address these issues? I have only begun to learn about css files but it seems a good way to impart a personality to a web site.

FF

Smarties

11-05-2003, 01:39 PM

Create a nice look is very difficult. In a case of a starting companies, I show the template collection I have on my website so they can show me what they like and from that, I work around the template and personalize it, so it won't look like an other website using the same template.

check here our gallery
http://www.smartresolution.com/web_services/template.asp

I don't recommend the use of templates, because I'd rather create a 100% custom design from the ground up. But in many cases, if you or your customer don't have any ideas, it's the fastest way to go.

venividi

11-05-2003, 01:45 PM

Another possible way to look at developing your website is to consider what you want to have on it, before you think too hard about the design itself.
Syrensong's second post is the best piece of advice you can get on this issue: think of the content first. I'll add only one thing: consider the visitors you want to attract, they count more than your personal taste. In a way, building a site is like going fishing: you must first decide on the type of fish you need to catch, then prepare the right bait. If it is a business site, visitors won't be interested in the aethetic side as much as in the content and will appreciate a fast-loading, easy to navigate (and read) site. That's all. The rest is secondary.
Venividi

Site design and localization
http://www.vernondata.it
http://www.e-passport.it

mm99

11-05-2003, 02:15 PM

I truly feel that if you are just starting out, the best idea is to simply sit down for a few hours and sort through webdites featuring free templates. You probably won't want to spend a lot (read: anything) and you'll get lots of ideas.

I do this when I am doing work for others. I have them sort through some sites and make notes on what they like best. It's a real good place to start and won't cost a thing. Here are some good places look:

http://www.freelayouts.com/
http://www.steves-templates.com/
http://artist4hire.net/
http://freesitetemplates.com/

I think it will really open your eyes to the posibilities and get the juices flowing.

peace...Paul

sherwin101

11-05-2003, 02:30 PM

adposter

11-05-2003, 02:38 PM

i agree with venividi (where's vici?) and syrensong.

1. get a piece of paper, write down all the things you want your site to have: pages, features and functions.

2. once you have that down, don't go for the exact design right away, determine a LOOK and FEEL. ask yourself, "What do I want users to think of my company and the services we offer when they visit my site?" Would you like users to get a 'neighborly', mom & pop kind of atmosphere from your site or a slick, pro type ambience? this will make establishing the final design a lot easier.

3. look around. check out other sites and take note of the elements you like. start thinking of how you can put these elements together.

4. if you're doing the design yourself, now's the time to start coming up with some sample designs. create at least 3-- you will almost never get the design you want on the first try. look over the designs you have then repeat step 3's last parts: take note of the elements you like. start thinking of how you can put these elements together. remember to step away from the designs every so often for a fresher and more objective view when you get back to them. BURNOUT IS REAL.

and yes, while templates may save you some time and a bit of money, customized designs are still the better choice. why? simply because the design's yours. and while it's true that a template may serve its purpose by putting your biz on the web, it's also well worth it if you go the extra mile and ESTABLISH UNIQUE INTERNET PRESENCE with customized design.

good luck! i hope all goes well with your project.

while these things takes place, he's already wasted his time planning, why not just produce something that's lite and easy and until he comes up with a better design, at least his services are up online and people can see it. I'm not commenting though that he'd just put in a site that's crappy design, but rather, something pleasing to visitors that would help increase traffic later as he plans for a better site. So I would still suggest going for a template. As I said earlier, time is critical, if you want to gain customers on the net, you must make sure you put your service right away, cause getting noticed on the net would take time especially if you're a newbee.

Jon

dzineworkz

11-05-2003, 04:00 PM

Speaking of templates.. do you guys think that the new template movement, (their availability and quality for the money, I mean let's face it, templates have come a long way recently) will end up having an negative impact on the full service web design firm?

Inquiring mind wants to know =)
Shelly

PS... I have found that my site's design is the absolute hardest to do.. nothing is good enough or quite right!

sherwin101

11-05-2003, 04:53 PM

kiumars

11-05-2003, 05:49 PM

Such a wonderful topic, the core of design is the starting point. This is my way if not an advice, but worth to try at least once. The first week, do nothing and enjoy your life. Let your mind be relaxed and free from any possible pressure. During this week close all doors to any ideas or suggestions. Forget the past, trends or any experience shared by any. Do not take the project too seriously. Do not start writing down or draw lines, because if you do may loose the whole idea. Try to get familiar with the project with joy and fun. Let the project opens up to you and remember not to push the limit. When you feel tired let it go. Go out for a walk instead of staring at your monitor. Because, the project is in your mind not on the screen or the notes you take. Do not compare the project with any other existing samples on the Internet.
Suddenly you and your project will become too close and all those question marks will loosen up. Ideas flow unleashed and you will enjoy every second of it. The second week and weeks after the project will become more clear and serious. This is the process and will never become forgotten. In fact there is no need to have an elephant memory to remember pleasure.
Now, whatever, I said in design compare it with natural relationships. If you see someone, you will never start by taking notes, etc. etc. as the above.
When an artist claims love to her/his work may sound strange to others. It’s because love is a process created in mind and that’s what an artist is mastered by practicing not by reading or redoing what the others do.
Confidence is the most important part of your design. If you loose it, you loose the project too. Not mentioning it is again like relationships. And again, see the artists; most of them are so proud of nothing. Artist always have this in mind “if not today, will be tomorrow” not, maybe tomorrow.
Believe in yourself; also, believe in mistakes we all do which never ends. At the end we all come together and learn from each other experiences. Whether from this forum or colleagues and friends.
At the end let me emphasizing this:
Let your mind relax and free and stop walking physically with your mind. It will take you 10 minutes to walk from your desk to the nearest park, but it will take your mind a second to land on the planet Mars. Good thing about the mind is that it always returns home safe. This is how to practice to get the best of a creative mind. To start with you should forget everything I said, because you know much better than anybody else what works best for you. I mean the CONFIDENCE is the key to start with.

Best regards
Kiumars

cyberious

11-05-2003, 06:18 PM

I find that it's best to define all the content involved first, meaning web copy. If you design AROUND your content, you'll get the best results. I also find that it's best to ensure that your design allows for changes to the content in the future. Make sure your design allows the page to fit the updates and additional content you may have. When I first began site design, I didn't allow for this and ended up having to redesign entire websites! Always allow the main area of your pages to "stretch", using bits of images within your tables: ie > a top image for your main table, and bottom image, and a repeating .gif in the table itself (if you are using an image for the background). And think about COLOR THEORY. The type of design you create should be based on a good color scheme to attract the right visitors to your site. For instance, a childrens site would have lots of bright colors, but a corporate site may only have 3 (hopefully not purple and orange or something).

I agree with the graph paper and pencils on hand. Try to carry one with you and just jot down your ideas! Sometimes the funniest things around you everyday, such as ads or billboards might spark something, even if it's just the font used, or color scheme.

Good luck!

Mili

11-05-2003, 06:44 PM

OK, I'm not a designer nor have those yearnings, but I needed to design my own, and I still remember what I pushed aside and what I kept.

Before I looked at my own possible page layout, I must've looked at least 100 other sites that were related in some way to my theme. Over about a week's time, for sure. It was necessary to jot down what I liked and what I didn't (from a visitor's point of view).

Then I took a week off from the computer. Really. After chewing on my notes, my own conclusion was to build a site that would hold my target audience's attention. Just too much competition out there, and I didn't want to get lost in the crowd.

That meant that I needed to:
1 - Put the visitors in the mood through color.

2 - Make an easy navigation for those visitors who are in a rush to get to what they're looking for.

3 - Make definitive breathing spaces between related topics that necessarily must be bundled onto one page.

4 - Use a font size that would be easy on the eyes.

5 - Speak to the visitor, not over his head or to a general audience.

6 - Convey an undercurrent feeling of that "I know what I'm talking about", which equals trust and the desire to keep on reading.

Then, having that conclusion firmly in my mind, I set about building the website, as if I were the visitor. Always. Honest self-criticism is very valuable in getting those rough edges into shape.

As for content, I could probably talk forever about my particular passion, so my approach is to say things in an easy way, and in a logical manner.

Hope some of this helps! All of the other answers in this thread point to excellent solutions. (Especially the pencil and paper part).

- Mili -

adposter

11-06-2003, 03:03 AM

...I don't really know how to make my webpage to look. Is there a way, method or some steps someone needs to think about when defining a webpage look ?

I am really very lost, can someone please help me ?

was just answering kuffal's question. yes, time may be crucial but you have to factor in whether you want to double the cost by getting a template now and then upgrading to customized design later on... OR if he had planned to do the design himself (hence no cost on upgrading to custom design) why get a template in the first place?

it's kuffal's call anyhow. (",)

Double the cost? Does a $10-$20 template double the cost? c'mon. He said it himself, he doesn't know how to get things done right at the moment. How long before he could finish up with the website plans? So if you were in his position, would you rather wait, trying to figure out what would you put on your site, or at least get something that would get yourself started until a better site is done? At least on a template, all he needs to do is plug in the information he needs to put. Whereas to do all the planning and all the other works before the site gets done, is a waste of time. A big GAP. I know it's his call, but at least what i'm trying to inform him is that when it comes to business especially online business, time is critical. I mean how many people get online nowadays? millions, he still even has to research his competitions, can you imagine how long will that take? plus on top of that, the planning of his site. He's already wasted so much time on those things. By the time he launches his site, tough competitors are already ahead. But anyways, it's still his call. I hope he's got the idea of the risks involve.

Jon

Mili

11-06-2003, 09:43 AM

Hmmm...should we start a new thread (or threat) on "Is Planning a Waste of Time?

I know it's his call, but at least what i'm trying to inform him is that when it comes to business especially online business, time is critical. I mean how many people get online nowadays? millions, he still even has to research his competitions, can you imagine how long will that take? plus on top of that, the planning of his site. He's already wasted so much time on those things. By the time he launches his site, tough competitors are already ahead.

Where is the rush to get in line with the competitors, and more confusing to me -- why?

First of all, the initial planning part is the foundation upon which the website will be built. You want a basic site, if time is of the essence, but you want to be able to build upon it too. So you need to get a good idea of where you're headed, and you need to plan. IMHO, that is not wasted time, no matter how long it takes.

Second of all, in business, time is critical, true. But I believe this phrase refers to when ads should be put out, when to identify a trend that you need to take advantage of, how to follow up on leads, and every other promotional action to capture the eye of the market you're targeting.

Thirdly, we don't need to be reminded of a given. Tons of people go online everyday. So then, somehow they make it to a site that is not able to hold their attention or feed their needs. Are those visitors supposed to be psychic and know in their heart of hearts that this site has a potential in the future? So where's the use? Just to say you get lots of visitors to your site each day isn't enough. You want quality visitors, so you need to have a decent site to show them. Something, even if through content, that will grab their attention and make them want to return later, when the construction dust has settled.

Fourthly, the tough competition ... how did they get tough? Don't you want to know, so that you can compete with them? Is it really possible to get a large chunk of their visitors without having planned? Is it possible to plan in one day's time?

Fifth-wise, getting noticed online takes time. Your first visitors (on Day One) might very well be hackers trying to deface your site. The major search engines won't be showcasing your site for a while, which gives you a chance to add and detract little things from the site.

And sixthly, it's much easier to commit to a firm plan in the beginning, with lots of flexibility built in. Because, again IMHO, the work that's involved during the two months AFTER the site is up is a whole lot more heavy. Submissions, SE optimization, answering emails, getting links to your site, fixing this, moving that ... you're actually setting you "house" in order. There aren't many opportunities at that time to meditate on what your plans should be.

Lastly, I'd rather plan well and plan to succeed for a long time, than to rush into something for the moment's benefit. Therefore, planning is critical.

- Mili -

sherwin101

11-06-2003, 10:26 AM

1) double the cost? Does a $10-$20 template double the cost? c'mon.

2) So if you were in his position, would you rather wait, trying to figure out what would you put on your site, or at least get something that would get yourself started until a better site is done?

3)At least on a template, all he needs to do is plug in the information he needs to put. Whereas to do all the planning and all the other works before the site gets done, is a waste of time.

4)But anyways, it's still his call. I hope he's got the idea of the risks involve.

1) fair enough, 10 or 20 bucks won't double the cost; but it will add to it (which was the point anyhow).

2) yes, i would figure out what i wanted with my website first-- so i guess that's not really waiting as i am doing something.

3) ah but he'd still need to get that information down, i.e. "plan" how he wants it to appear on the template. you must also remember that while all business are unique; templates are not. hence, there will be still be some time spent trying to fit in a unique business into a standard template.

i really don't understand why you consider planning a waste of time; even resellers, the most time-conscious biz people (well they must be, they do just RE-sell), do some planning to an extent.

4) yes it is. i hope our discussion helped him.

RicInACloak

11-07-2003, 01:31 AM

To quote "Plan to throw one away, you will anyway"

Yes you do need to make a list of the content, and think about several other things mentioned in earlier posts, but as to how it looks, well.. I must have done 3 or 4 complete re-writes over the years before I finally felt comfortable to publish my site on the web. Each 'prototype' helped me to refine what i wanted to do and say (and I am still improving the site). Dont expect to get it all perfect on the first try.

Perhaps do the first pass with some easy to use tool, even if its not really suitable for the finished result (e.g. create a main page in word and save as html) never mind if this site version does not have dynamic content, of fancy banners, or animated anythings. At least it gets you started. Once you have started you have a framework for attaching new ideas. Eventually your framework may well be insufficient, and that is when you do a re-think.

Paradoxically I would actually prefer to have an absolutely complete list of the required features before I start work (and thats what I aim for with my clients) but when it comes to defining my own requirements, I find i need to grow the ideas over time. I guess its easier to ask someone else (a client) leading questions designed to extract their full requirement list, than it is to ask ones self.

Maybe it would work if you sat down with a friend and asked the questions in a role playing way, ie the friend pretends to be you and you ask questions trying to get the spec, its worth a try.

vwebworld

11-07-2003, 08:22 AM

The one point to remember...
your first site will not be your last.

In other words, whatever you design you will
change it. You'll change it as you learn, as you get
feedback, as the trend in website design changes...etc.

So... just go do it. Create something and go
from there. I think you have soo soo so much advice
on this thread to last quite a while.

Yeah, you need to have some plan like what you want
your site to accomplish and what your content may be...
but, it's time to get to "play".

Yes, "play"... that's what it is for me... fun,
creating, and seeing an end result = fun and
gratifying.

Good luck.

~Roland

kuffal

11-08-2003, 10:22 PM

ello everybody..

wow I just got back from a short trip I had, and wham ! a whole bunch of emails answering my oh so loved question ;) Thank yall very very much.

it took me like 1 hour to read all the messages you left me, and well, you ppls are of v. much help ! I, first, focused on the content and got it ready, now I am getting the design thing done, and will have something to show all of you soon. I finally decided to stick for something high-tech, which would make a hosting and websolutions company reliable enough to get lots of customers.

Right now, www.dndweb.net will only have a webpage saying welcome to dndweb.net, but within the coming days there'll be something for all of you to look at.

Once I have something ready, I'll send the link to this forum and will appreciate very much your suggestions.

Thanks once more !