SEO Vs. PPC [Archive]

peteark

11-03-2011, 10:24 AM

A common method used is

PPC from the outset, remember the longer the tail, the cheaper the rate = better conversion, however this is only the case when the terms match the offering and the site validates.

As businesses become more profitable exit strategies are sought from PPC, this is often done by hiring a quality SEO provider. One that will guide the company well into the future. Their work will often lead to PPC being switched off.

The more savvy operators commence SEO right at the beginning, often before the website builds commences.

Once a landing page is in position link building can commence, also an optimisation specialist will have the skills to produce

Site navigation
Target keywords for each page
URL tree
H1’s
Page relevant meta tags

Everything sort of flows from keyword research, sometimes even the domain name.

Many businesses avoid SEO and stick to a diet of PPC, if the margins are healthy and the account is managed in an efficient manner, there’s nothing wrong with it.

Tiggerito

11-03-2011, 11:18 AM

PPC is instant but you pay for your traffic forever. It's like renting. You stop paying and your traffic stops.
SEO takes time but the rewards continually increase. Like paying off a home loan. At some point you could stop paying and you still get traffic.

Tiggerito

11-03-2011, 11:30 AM

That doesn't really answer the question, which can't really be answered.

Where I am $1,000 might get you a years worth of basic SEO, but the traffic levels you get from it are so dependent on the market your targeting and what other work you put into it.

$1,000 in ad campaigns could last yo a week or ten years. Again, it's so dependent on your market and how much traffic you want.

I personally don't pay for any directories, but I'm in Australia and the local free ones do better than the international paid ones.

Getting a subscription for data will not get you more traffic unless you research it and act upon that research.

The only solid advice I can give you is get yourself a free Google AdWords voucher and test out the waters. Then you may have a better clue on how much PPC will cost you and even how hard a job your SEO will have.

jim60723

11-03-2011, 12:35 PM

keyon

11-03-2011, 12:42 PM

Or I need to consider all of these as a start-up business?
I think most people would tell you it's not an either/or proposition. A good business plan usually includes a variety of different marketing channels for generating revenue. This has become painfully evident in recent months for website owners who depend on organic search for their sole source of traffic.

11-03-2011, 06:16 PM

Sweet Tooth #3

11-03-2011, 09:36 PM

Thanks pete & mccreath for your valuable inputs. It cleared a lot of cloud.

I spoke with couple of PPC Campaign Managers from different companies who asked me to also invest in Facebook, LinkedIn ads for lead generation & brand awareness. Isn't it also possible if I create just Facebook & LinkedIn Pages ?

While reading more about this I came across to an article of Matt McGee in search engine land which says about a survey reflects lead generation like this :40%=SEO, 34.2%=PPC & 24.8%=Social Media Marketing

Or I need to consider all of these as a start-up business?

That's a nice formula, but without more details it's impossible to give you any suggestions.

Would the keywords you want to target be competitive? If they are competitive, they may be hard to rank. But that also means you will have to pay more for an ad click. Without some context, the $1,000 figure mentioned is meaningless. Would you be paying 10 cents for a click, or $10 for a click. If you did get a lead from Adwords, what are the odds you would get recurring business from that lead? Do you need visitors now, or a month from now?

Lot of variables here.

If you spent $1,000 on seo, how would you spend it? I've heard it can be a crapshoot hiring an seo company. If you want to hire it out like that, I would encourage you to look at the signatures of some of the senior members of this forum. Some offer seo services, and bullshitters get called out quick around here.

Just don't go to eBay or fiverr and start ordering links unless you have some experience with seo. Much of the positive feedback left is by people who have no idea they just got hosed.

Find someone you can trust...maybe pay them for an assessment of your situation.

Good luck

Addition: I have no idea if you can get any traffic from directories, but social bookmarking might be something else you want to consider. You have the possibility for instant traffic without having to pay. And there's endless possibilities for networking online.

Tubby

11-03-2011, 10:28 PM

Hi, I am kinda confused here. In a given $1000 how it is advisable to spend in SEO & PPC. Whereas SEO gives me search engine visibility & visitors. In both cases visitors can become prospective clients. Should I consider in paid directory listings like Yahoo directory or concentrate more on PPC. Does buying a subscription in different web analyzer/metrics stand a count here?

I think it matters what your site is intended to do. I recently received an email from a PPC company recommending me to their program. . . Unfortunately I can barely manage to get 2cents per page visit from my visitors.

Being very progressive PPC company I then received a return email offering me a "partnership" that guarantee a better return on my page views.

I sent them a message back saying " I am quite content with a steady 2cents"

The needs and purpose of any individual web site vary . . I do not think there is such a thing as good single solution for delivering traffic.

deepsand

11-04-2011, 12:38 AM

PPC from the outset, remember the longer the tail, the cheaper the rate ...
Maybe; maybe not.

the cheaper the rate = better conversion, ...
Maybe; maybe not.

jim60723

11-04-2011, 04:24 AM

Thank you all for your quick replies. It helped me a lot.

As per the PPC goes I am not sure how it will cost me. Because I am in the eastern part of the World, more specifically India, (where 1 USD=50 INR). So I may give PPC a try to see how it works for me. & also traffic/visitors is more expected for a new site.

Simultaneously I can try to do the SEO stuff by my own. I have been reading different blogs & Google guidelines. Hopefully I might start building links & optimize meta tags. And where I have a great support of you guys through this forum, Google help forum &different others, I may not find huge difficulties.

Thank you guys once again for your help.

deepsand

11-04-2011, 10:13 PM

As per the PPC goes I am not sure how it will cost me.
Absent past experience with the same or fungible ads, the only way to get an idea is to test.

The key is to start small, in terms of both number of ads, keywords/phrases and bids, and work up from there.

monikadhiman

11-07-2011, 04:59 AM

SEO and PPC both are the good way to get traffic but i will go with SEO because it is cheaper as compare to PPC. YOu can use both of them as according to your requirement.

jim60723

11-07-2011, 08:22 AM

I have started small Adwords campaign & ya with a free coupon. It's day 2. Maybe it would be too too early to comment maybe you guys could say howz it going. Focusing on clicks(as it's a new campaign) avg CPC goes near about : $0.23 & CTR: 1.85%. So have I created the campaign well & good or it could be better keeping the avg CPC near about the same. It's probably the dumbest question because staying in a different part of the world (I'm from India) & not knowing which keyword I am targeting, how much it costs. But as a general overview if you have tried adwords was there a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge difference due to country & keywords.

deepsand

11-07-2011, 06:31 PM

Yes, 2 days is much too early for a reliable evaluation. Furthermore, your most important metrics are Conversion Rate and Cost per Conversion.

And, yes, there can be very large differences between keywords/phrase used by searchers from country to country, owing to cultural differences and/or syntactical differences in languages.

Sweet Tooth #3

11-07-2011, 09:07 PM

And, yes, there can be very large differences between keywords/phrase used by searchers from country to country, owing to cultural differences and/or syntactical differences in languages.

Economic conditions and currency conversions also, this week I got 3 clicks from Nigeria which totaled 8 cents. :-P

@jim60723-It's good to hear you've taken action. So many people just sit around wondering what they should do...if they should do it.

I agree with Deepsand. It's much too early to tell. I'm an Adsense publisher not an Adwords user. But there's one area that I'm sure has some similarities...click through rate stats.

I don't know how many impressions you've had for your ads so far, but probably not a lot if you're still using the free coupon.

1.85% ctr sounds good to me, but this is only over the course of a 2 days. Over the next 2 days, I don't know what it will be. But it probably won't be 1.85%. The next 2 days might be .02%, the next 2 days after that might be 10%+.

My point is that, when you're trying to judge your stats on a day to day basis, they fluctuate wildly unless you have a lot of daily impressions.

My Adsense stats didn't level out until I was getting over 1,000 page impressions per day. At that point, they only fluctuated by about .1% (for stats over 30 day period). Now that I've lost some traffic, they fluctuate up to .8% over the course of the same time frame. When I was building traffic and trying to get my first Adsense check, I would make $5 1 day, then nothing for the next 3 days, then 1$ for the day...and so on.

The reason I'm posting this is because I made many false conclusions regarding my approach, based on stats that were not substantial enough to give me realistic data.

jim60723

11-10-2011, 09:13 AM

keep in mind though that if you are dealing with google adwords you can get banned for no reason and have no chance to explain yourself - well maybe you can try once or twice but they wont listen and certainly wont provide any specific explanations other than "we think your site looks spammy" - whereas in reality it is not, of course. my case as of late so thank heaven for SEO otherwise id be in a hole right now

I really didn't get the "Banned from AdWords" thing. Well if one is not following Google guidelines then he probably get banned. But if he fixes the problems in his site & do a reconsideration request then it could be cleared.

deepsand

11-11-2011, 12:01 AM

... keep in mind though that if you are dealing with google adwords you can get banned for no reason and have no chance to explain yourself - well maybe you can try once or twice but they wont listen and certainly wont provide any specific explanations other than "we think your site looks spammy" - whereas in reality it is not, of course. ...
Luck of the draw re. who's handling the matter.

Don't know if it's still the case, but Google had been using volunteers for a lot of this work! :rolleyes:

diyday

11-13-2011, 12:17 AM

I think the $1000 optimization/advertising argument also depends on the type of site you have. If you make money on your site selling tangible goods or services, you may opt to spend money on advertising. I, on the other hand, do not sell anything on my site, and make money with Adsense and affiliate banners. So, for a site owner in my situation, I believe it makes more financial sense to rely solely (of the 2 options) on optimization.

deepsand

11-13-2011, 12:22 AM

I, on the other hand, do not sell anything on my site, and make money with Adsense and affiliate banners.
To the contrary, you are a seller of ad space. It is not impossible that that paying for ads that lead to your MFA pages will yield a positive ROI.

PravinGanore

11-14-2011, 03:03 AM

The conversion rate of SEO is much better than PPC but it depends on what you are going to provide on your site and what are your products. If you don't have a lot of competition then you can go for both simultaneously. You can invest 70% of amount on PPC and 30% on SEO in the beginning. This will help in both the ways. The time till you don't have good rankings, PPC will work for you and once you starts getting good organic traffic, you can concentrate more on SEO part.

deepsand

11-14-2011, 03:42 AM

The conversion rate of SEO ...
Just how does one go about defining such, let alone measuring it?

... is much better than PPC
Assuming that what you really refer to is Return On Investment, then that is a categorical claim that is not categorically true.

You can invest 70% of amount on PPC and 30% on SEO in the beginning.
Seems to be a purely arbitrary split.

... once you starts getting good organic traffic, you can concentrate more on SEO part.
If PPC produces a positive ROI, then to discontinue or curtail it is illogical.

paullopez

11-14-2011, 04:52 AM

When we compare PPC & SEO, then it reminds me the story of race between turtle & rabbit. Simple SEO strategies are effective if you work continuously. PPC campaigns are able to produce quick results, but imo it is a short time of fame, because after sometime you can't afford it.

deepsand

11-14-2011, 05:09 AM

PPC campaigns are able to produce quick results, but imo it is a short time of fame, because after sometime you can't afford it.
The facts do not support your opinion. ;)

paullopez

11-14-2011, 05:27 AM

The facts do not support your opinion. ;)

May be :) As compared to the requirement of investment PPC is not for every one. But this is just form my point view … Can you give me an example of any small business who become successful due to the only PPC campaigns ...?

diyday

11-14-2011, 03:17 PM

To the contrary, you are a seller of ad space. It is not impossible that that paying for ads that lead to your MFA pages will yield a positive ROI.

(not sure what "MFA" stands for...)

At this point, I don't see how paying $0.10 - $0.12 per visitor is prudent. Even if every single one of those visitors came to my site and clicked an Adsense link (which is an impossible expectation), I'd still just about break even. If only 1 out of 10 of those visitors clicked on an Adsense ad (which is more likely to occur), each click would have to earn me about $1, again, just to break even. And my Adsense clicks earn nowhere near that amount.

And on the banner side, a good click-through rate is about 7%; that's just the click rate. You have to figure that only a small percentage of those that go on to see what's on the other side of the banner actually make purchases. And, to top it all off, even the most lucrative (non-adult) affiliate programs usually don't pay more than 15% commission on those sales. Many pay less than 10%. Besides, I'm not serving banner ads for big-ticket items like expensive gym equipment or jewelry.

I'm exhausted just crunching the numbers...

deepsand

11-14-2011, 09:01 PM

As compared to the requirement of investment PPC is not for every one.
But, you said that's it's not for anyone.

Can you give me an example of any small business who become successful due to the only PPC campaigns?
Setting aside the fact that the burden of proof is yours, as you made the claim, I sure can - the one shown in my Signature.

With an ROI of approx. 1100%, why would I want to not use PPC? :confused:

(not sure what "MFA" stands for...)
Made For Ads.

At this point, I don't see how paying $0.10 - $0.12 per visitor is prudent. Even if every single one of those visitors came to my site and clicked an Adsense link (which is an impossible expectation), I'd still just about break even. If only 1 out of 10 of those visitors clicked on an Adsense ad (which is more likely to occur), each click would have to earn me about $1, again, just to break even. And my Adsense clicks earn nowhere near that amount.
Didn't say that it was worthwhile for all; but, just pointed out that you are in fact a seller, and that advertising is therefore potentially beneficial.

Sweet Tooth #3

11-14-2011, 09:26 PM

(not sure what "MFA" stands for...)

At this point, I don't see how paying $0.10 - $0.12 per visitor is prudent. Even if every single one of those visitors came to my site and clicked an Adsense link (which is an impossible expectation), I'd still just about break even. If only 1 out of 10 of those visitors clicked on an Adsense ad (which is more likely to occur), each click would have to earn me about $1, again, just to break even. And my Adsense clicks earn nowhere near that amount.

And on the banner side, a good click-through rate is about 7%; that's just the click rate. You have to figure that only a small percentage of those that go on to see what's on the other side of the banner actually make purchases. And, to top it all off, even the most lucrative (non-adult) affiliate programs usually don't pay more than 15% commission on those sales. Many pay less than 10%. Besides, I'm not serving banner ads for big-ticket items like expensive gym equipment or jewelry.

I'm exhausted just crunching the numbers...

MFA stands for Made for Adsense; though I'm not sure exactly what this means. It implies a low quality website, but my Adsense sites have top notch content.

When Deepsand said that "It is not impossible that that paying for ads that lead to your MFA pages will yield a positive ROI," I don't think he was suggesting that this is a good business model; just that it's not impossible. But then again, I don't want to speak for him.

If you could find an approach like this that worked, I can't imagine the net profit would be very much unless you were driving a lot of traffic. But there's something to be said for thinking outside the box.

I use SEO just so I can sell clicks back to businesses with products.

I don't know what kind of business the OP has, but in certain circumstances a lead can pay you back many times over in the form of repeat business, direct referrals, or a positive review somewhere. That's what I like about Adwords advertisers, they seem to appreciate the value of a good lead when compared to something like Amazon.

Edit: Well, he beat me to it. I left this reply open in another window while I did some other stuff. Made for Ads...I really thought it meant Made for Adsense...

You learn something new everyday. :D

jim60723

11-20-2011, 12:14 AM

Okay so the first trial run is over (the coupon also :( )

And here are the results:

Targeted Country -> India
Clicks -> 210
Impr. -> 10,600
CTR -> 1.98%
Avg. CPC -> 0.25 USD
Daily budget -> 6 USD

The conversion was measured as max. no of clicks but it was a small campaign so it wasn't eligible of conversion optimizer. Maybe because there was not enough data.

Based on this small campaign data - what do you say - Good/Bad/Ugly ???

deepsand

11-20-2011, 12:44 AM

Setting aside that fact that 2 1/2 weeks is statistically very short sample period, the question remains what value you place on the traffic.

The conversion rate is what percentage of those who click on the ad do what you want them to do once they've arrived at your site. The conversion value is the value you place on such action.

Tiggerito

11-20-2011, 09:31 AM

How much money did you make?

jim60723

11-23-2011, 10:50 AM

How much money did you make?

Generated 5X lead to the amount spent..

deepsand

11-23-2011, 04:34 PM

Generated 5X lead to the amount spent..
Please clarify.

11-25-2011, 10:44 AM

There are self-proclaimed Google PPC "specialists" going around selling what they say are "unlimited clicks for one monthly fee". Without knowing how PPC works even at a basic level, they fool most of the uninformed.

11-26-2011, 08:44 AM

define the two approaches as being on the one hand a technical and efficiency exercise, on the other a marketing approach.

The expertise and stratgic methods for both PPC and Organic SEO in terms of cost efficiency and getting the best amount of qualified traffic leads from each, are different. But they are both marketing exercises.

jim60723

12-02-2011, 08:32 PM

Please clarify.

Guess the conversion Conversion Optimizer played here well. Generated 5 times value of lead to the total amount spend. But not all of them were converted. Whereas average monthly leads are not included in this. ):

deepsand

12-02-2011, 10:24 PM

Generated 5 times value of lead to the total amount spend.
You assign a monetary value to unconverted leads?

But not all of them were converted. Whereas average monthly leads are not included in this.
If conversions from PPC were trackable, then of what necessity adjusting for leads from other sources? :confused:

jim60723

12-03-2011, 12:03 AM

You assign a monetary value to unconverted leads?
Let's say one is selling homemade cookies for $X a packet. A buyer client came to him and was looking for for Y amount packets in Z days. Now one can probably calculate how much he's gonna charge for that. Ya the are couple of factors work around here like quality, on time, cost (if there is any discount for a bulk purchase). So there is a chance the he could turn the buyer into a prospective client. Maybe he didn't get the order or cookies but the buyer liked the coffee mug he was selling & may come back later on for that. But if he looses the order, still one can assign a monetary value to unconverted leads. confusing??

If conversions from PPC were trackable, then of what necessity adjusting for leads from other sources? :confused:
Other sources are offline & we are thinking to focus more on them.

*I apologize if I sound like giving boring lectures which is not my intention at all :)
Have a great weekend.

deepsand

12-03-2011, 12:39 AM

Let's say one is selling homemade cookies for $X a packet. A buyer client came to him and was looking for for Y amount packets in Z days. Now one can probably calculate how much he's gonna charge for that. Ya the are couple of factors work around here like quality, on time, cost (if there is any discount for a bulk purchase). So there is a chance the he could turn the buyer into a prospective client. Maybe he didn't get the order or cookies but the buyer liked the coffee mug he was selling & may come back later on for that. But if he looses the order, still one can assign a monetary value to unconverted leads. confusing??
Yes; confusing, as it's not clear what sort of tracking you had in place for this campaign.

Did you set up AdWords Conversion Tracking to capture your true conversions?

If so, do you know that the conversion cookies have a 30 day life, so that those who return to the site any time within 30 days of having clicked on the ad(s) and convert will be counted?

Other sources are offline & we are thinking to focus more on them.
But, as those leads would be wholly immaterial to the data captured by AdWords, the mention of them lacks context.

jim60723

12-03-2011, 01:32 AM

Yes; confusing, as it's not clear what sort of tracking you had in place for this campaign.

Did you set up AdWords Conversion Tracking to capture your true conversions?

No I didn't set up AdWords Conversion Tracking to capture your true conversions. As I said earlier:

The conversion was measured as max. no of clicks but it was a small campaign so it wasn't eligible of conversion optimizer. Maybe because there was not enough data.

The clicks was pointed to specific landing pages and responses generated from them was counted (Google Analytics). Also those pages was blocked from organic search results. Thus the generated inquiries was tracked.

If so, do you know that the conversion cookies have a 30 day life, so that those who return to the site any time within 30 days of having clicked on the ad(s) and convert will be counted?
No, I didn't know that.

But, as those leads would be wholly immaterial to the data captured by AdWords, the mention of them lacks context.

True, print ads, referrals, conferences not all can be measured with charts & tables..... at least I'am trying to figure that out....lemme know if you already got it there.

deepsand

12-03-2011, 02:12 AM

No I didn't set up AdWords Conversion Tracking to capture your true conversions.
That's unfortunate, as such data cannot now be retrieved.

The clicks was pointed to specific landing pages and responses generated from them was counted (Google Analytics). Also those pages was blocked from organic search results. Thus the generated inquiries was tracked.
Wholly unnecessary. The default AdWords Statistics capture both impressions and click-throughs, with the latter being more accurate than those provided by Analytics.

True, print ads, referrals, conferences not all can be measured with charts & tables..... at least I'am trying to figure that out....lemme know if you already got it there.
Print ad responses can be captured by way of dedicated landing pages or with unique Response Codes for each effort to be monitored. The latter can either be captured by way of user on-site entered data, i.e. in a dedicated field on an on-line form, or as a parameter included in the URL provided in print. That same can be used for e-mail marketing.

Organized referral programs, as opposed to ad hoc referrals, can be similarly handled by way of Response Codes.

alex200

12-05-2011, 12:32 PM

allow me to join this discussion..

I think it all depends on the output time you need. If you need immediate response so focus on PPC. SEO for long term results. But SEO has long lasting results than PPC. So, you can make your mind to choose your preferred strategy.

deepsand

12-05-2011, 04:57 PM

I think it all depends on the output time you need. If you need immediate response so focus on PPC. SEO for long term results. But SEO has long lasting results than PPC. So, you can make your mind to choose your preferred strategy.
While it is true that PPC can bring results more quickly than does SEO, it is not the case that SEO will eclipse PPC in the long.

In fact, so long as the ROI on PPC is positive, it makes no sense to not use it.

SEO and PPC are not mutually exclusive, but complementary.

SuperMan

12-05-2011, 08:31 PM

I use both of them, but be careful with your PPC - you need to be precise and micro-manage - otherwise it will drain your funds and budget. SEO is cool because its basically free - but takes alot more work. I love them both. They are both an art form that I finesse. It is good to diverse your traffic period...

deepsand

12-05-2011, 09:55 PM

SEO is cool because its basically free - but takes alot more work.
Free if you place no value on your time; and, do no harm to your site(s.)

Tiggerito

12-06-2011, 07:45 AM

Free if you place no value on your time; and, do no harm to your site(s.)

So true. It's never free.

One needs to balance the cost (time or money) with the rewards.

SEO tends to be a cost in time and results with an investment in continuing rewards. While PPC is a cost in money with very little invested benefit.

deepsand

12-06-2011, 07:06 PM

Both SEO and PPC require the devotion of time; and, the benefits from both diminish with time if ignored.

jhannawin

12-07-2011, 04:05 AM

There's some good stuff in this thread and I tend to agree with McCreath and Deepsand.

I don't do much SEO or PPC, but as a rule of thumb I treat SEO as 'strategic' and PPC as 'tactical'. So what does that mean? Well I analyse my ROI on tactical activities in a much shorter time frame, and I set an end point for each tactical campaign. My PPC is always very tightly controlled and I try to get relatively low volumes, but CTRs over 10%, that suits my market.

dimples

12-07-2011, 04:38 AM

I pay more for SEO. This is a sure ball way to get traffic once you are on the top spot. However it takes time so PPC is a faster way out. PPC needs a good strategy or your money will be gone fast.

deepsand

12-07-2011, 04:48 AM

... I treat SEO as 'strategic' and PPC as 'tactical'.
A good and succinct characterization. I would simply elaborate that the tactical is not necessarily a one off action.

deepsand

12-07-2011, 05:20 AM

I pay more for SEO. This is a sure ball way to get traffic once you are on the top spot.
Problem: There is no guarantee that you will either reach the top spot, or retain it.

joshuanorton

12-16-2011, 04:03 AM

SEO is that it takes time to get positions on keywords and even then there is no real guarantee. It seriously pains me to separate search engine optimization from social networking. PPC is a time taking process. Spending hours to bid and win your keywords and then monitoring PPC ads is just not right to do.

deepsand

12-16-2011, 04:12 AM

aditd

01-30-2012, 05:11 PM

deepsand

01-30-2012, 09:51 PM

I would say no to Yahoo directory.
You would shun a directory deemed to be authoritative by Google?

I would invest in seo ... as with PPC if the visitor doesn't pay ... the money spend in getting him on site are gone. With seo if you make it to the first page ... then you can get more visitors ( in time ) for which you not pay.
SEO is not free.

More importantly, PPC brings traffic that is more qualified than does organic. Those who click on PPC listings are more likely to be predisposed to being shopping or buying; organic traffic brings a larger portion who are simply seeking information or just browsing.

williamc

01-30-2012, 10:11 PM

I would say no to Yahoo directory.

Then why do you suppose Yahoo is one of the few mentioned by Google in the past to be worthwhile in getting exactly?

deepsand

01-30-2012, 10:14 PM

Because G and Y are secretly colluding? 8-)

deepsand

02-05-2012, 02:46 PM

SEO means search engine optimization and PPC means pay per click. In my opinion both are very effective but ppc is more effective than SEO because it is a paid service and you can do seo act for free.
Telling us what is already known, and on a dead thread, is useless.

deepsand

02-09-2012, 07:17 PM

PPC is a waste of time, money and efforts.
Pure BS.

On the other hand, same time invested in SEO would ensure long term success of your website.
More BS; there are no guarantees.

18 rapid fire junk posts, many to dead threads, including one to a thread that died over 8 years ago, with your Signature stuffed & ready to go = posting for count.

None of us are pleased when we get 18 e-mail alerts, all for posts by the same person posting junk.

Stop wasting our time.

02-09-2012, 10:59 PM

:lol: DS - thanks for the late night chuckles with the "18 rapid fire junk posts..." comments. They are hilarious and rightly so! LOL!!

JakeWelch1987

03-03-2012, 08:43 AM

SEO includes all the task from site optimization to increase sale while ppc is only used to get instant traffic on site so that sell can be increased but there is no guarantee that sell will increase because sometime due to not having proper website the sales can not be increased.

03-03-2012, 03:35 PM

SEO includes all the task from site optimization to increase sale

So, you are saying site optimization will increase sales? What on-page efforts do you suggest will bring in more qualified traffic for sales?

xmachinecorex

03-03-2012, 06:07 PM

If an aggressive approach is required, that is, if immediate traffic is requested when a new site is being launched, one could run parallel campaigns of both PPC and Organic in the beginning. The PPC can give immediate traffic and the Organic strategies can begin to build for long-term traffic streams.

Having said that, I personally don't use PPC any longer. Long story. Depending on what Organic strategies are used, a site can receive some immediate traffic within 48 hours or so and then increasingly more traffic after 30-60 days.

this has always been my outlook on PPC and exactly how i advise to approach it.

plus i am the same i do not use PPC ads..

BUT- in some heavy markets, it looks like too stand a chance you HAVE to do PPC campaign because the market is already so saturated with other PPC advertisers and there are like 10 results in main results before you get to organic listings.

got a client right now got them to #1 - #2 PG 1 google for many popular saturated terms - and barely get any organic traffic because of adwords clutter

deepsand

03-03-2012, 06:16 PM

Furthermore, in highly competitive sectors, the cost of attaining and maintaining a sufficiently high SERP rank may very well make PPC more cost effective.

Even is less competitive climes, the fact that those who click on PPC links are generally the more likely to be actionable can make PPC profitable.

xmachinecorex

03-03-2012, 06:51 PM

Furthermore, in highly competitive sectors, the cost of attaining and maintaining a sufficiently high SERP rank may very well make PPC more cost effective.

yes i definitely believe so plus i do imagine "some" natural backlinks come of adwords campaigns occasionally, or maybe more?

Even is less competitive climes, the fact that those who click on PPC links are generally the more likely to be actionable can make PPC profitable.

that is a good tip. I might try this out on a few

deepsand

03-03-2012, 08:00 PM

yes i definitely believe so plus i do imagine "some" natural backlinks come of adwords campaigns occasionally, or maybe more?
In my experience, most such links come in the form of local bookmarks, which can serve to bring direct traffic from repeat customers, thus both avoiding potential future click costs and reducing the likelihood of the customer's switching to another supplier.

This is, of course, highly dependent on the degree to which brand loyalty is achieved, and how well organized the user's bookmarks. While the former is to some extent affected by the merchant, the latter is not; and, the typical user does not have his bookmarks well organized, with the result that he ends up resorting to doing a search for the brand in question, frequenting clicking on the PPC link for the merchant he's seeking if one is prominently displayed.

JakeWelch1987

03-05-2012, 07:09 AM

So, you are saying site optimization will increase sales? What on-page efforts do you suggest will bring in more qualified traffic for sales? you can provide live chat facility or any toll free no on your site, some introductory videos, ad rotators for daily site news other then this you can also include customer's testimonial with their email or contact no, any awards of you have achieved and many more. I use lots of things to improve the sales of site by strong on-page optimization and all my customers are quite satisfied with it.

deepsand

03-05-2012, 07:33 AM

you can provide live chat facility or any toll free no on your site, some introductory videos, ad rotators for daily site news other then this you can also include customer's testimonial with their email or contact no, any awards of you have achieved and many more. I use lots of things to improve the sales of site by strong on-page optimization and all my customers are quite satisfied with it.
That, however, is neither part of SEO nor impacting on organic traffic alone. It is wholly separate from both SEO and PPC, and equally affects the traffic from both sources.

JakeWelch1987

03-05-2012, 07:56 AM

That, however, is neither part of SEO nor impacting on organic traffic alone. It is wholly separate from both SEO and PPC, and equally affects the traffic from both sources.
All these steps are comes in Strong on-page optimization so, it's a part of seo and you can decline it because if any visitor will get all this things in site then minimum 50% would like buy something from the site and it's my challenge, i have worked on more then 500 projects in all over the world and that's my personal experience. Sorry if you feel bad about it but you know all seo professionals are having different techniques and i have these techniques which i shared with you if you like it or not not that's not my concern, anyway i really like to have discussion with you regarding seo.

03-05-2012, 08:25 AM

All these steps are comes in Strong on-page optimization so, it's a part of seo and you can decline it because if any visitor will get all this things in site then minimum 50% would like buy something from the site and it's my challenge,

This goes back to my original point I mention in a previous post in this thread. You can SEO the heck out of your actual site page content and underlying code, but if that potential "visitor" you mention above, who doesn't know about you or your site (because off page efforts are not performed), is searching for your type of products or services, that potential visitor will find and probably visit your competition's site. Why? Because those sites listed high in the SERPs have had more SEO performed than just optimizing of their web pages.

JakeWelch1987

03-05-2012, 08:34 AM

This goes back to my original point I mention in a previous post in this thread. You can SEO the heck out of your actual site page content and underlying code, but if that potential "visitor" you mention above, who doesn't know about you or your site (because off page efforts are not performed), is searching for your type of products or services, that potential visitor will find and probably visit your competition's site. Why? Because those sites listed high in the SERPs have had more SEO performed than just optimizing of their web pages. Off page is also necessary as on page and i really mean it but my point is The On-page optimization should be as much good as off-page optimization otherwise it will not help you to increase sales. Try to understand that i am not against off-page optimization, i know that it's too much necessary but if you are doing only ppc for site not seo and your on page is not strong then you will only get the traffic on site not sales.

03-05-2012, 08:43 AM

but if you are doing only ppc for site not seo and your on page is not strong then you will only get the traffic on site not sales.

Look at it this way. If the goal of a site is to use only PPC, the site content has to be optimized for the visitors who arrive via PPC click, to convert those visitors and facilitate sales. An Organic SEO strategy is a completely different animal.

JakeWelch1987

03-05-2012, 08:56 AM

Look at it this way. If the goal of a site is to use only PPC, the site content has to be optimized for the visitors who arrive via PPC click, to convert those visitors and facilitate sales. An Organic SEO strategy is a completely different animal.
This is exactly what i was trying to say but you take it wrong but now you got it so just :-P.

03-05-2012, 09:07 AM

JakeWelch1987

03-05-2012, 09:12 AM

Um, no. I didn't take anything wrong. Look at your post #61. All you refer to is site optimization to increase sales. There's nothing said about off-page or off-site SEO, which is when I entered this thread. i have written "SEO includes all the task from site optimization to increase sale" in very first line of my post which says that seo carries all the steps like on-page, off-page, link wheel, reporting etc.

03-05-2012, 11:07 AM

i have written "SEO includes all the task from site optimization to increase sale"

Um, again, no. The above (my bolding) has nothing to do with off-site promotion/SEO, and will not increase sales if you don't have the traffic required from off-page efforts for improvements in traffic and SERPs.

which says that seo carries all the steps like on-page, off-page, link wheel, reporting etc.

At best, one would have to make an assumption, but more likely a best guess that you also meant to say this.

deepsand

03-05-2012, 09:36 PM

All these steps are comes in Strong on-page optimization so, it's a part of seo and you can decline it because if any visitor will get all this things in site then minimum 50% would like buy something from the site and it's my challenge, i have worked on more then 500 projects in all over the world and that's my personal experience.
No amount of experience can alter the fact that what a user does or does not do once he's reached you site has on effect on either his discovering your site or making a decision as to whether or not to visit it.

SEO has nothing to do with users' on-site behavior.

You've gone completely outside the topic of the thread, which is the relative merits of gaining traffic via organic and sponsored listings.

avinash019

03-07-2012, 04:40 AM

Hi,
Both SEO & PPC deal with driving traffic to a company site or weblog. But I'd recommend you to invest your money in SEO. PPC may send you traffic faster than SEO, but there is not steady flow of traffic you can expect from PPC. But in contrary if you hire a good SEO company they will not only help you to generate steady flow of traffic but it will also build your brand reputation in front of your customer. So I will vote for Search Engine Optimization.

deepsand

03-07-2012, 05:53 AM

PPC may send you traffic faster than SEO, but there is not steady flow of traffic you can expect from PPC. But in contrary if you hire a good SEO company they will not only help you to generate steady flow of traffic but it will also build your brand reputation in front of your customer.
Setting aside the fact that you've posted to a zombie thread, this is completely illogical. The value of a PPC listing does not decrease with age; and, that of an organic one does not increase with age.

03-08-2012, 03:54 PM

In the variably changing dimension of Hatoposite, it could be true. :mrgreen:

the_internets

03-29-2012, 10:51 AM

Agree that it is not either/or, and would offer some additional thoughts.

PPC is an investment and as such should be carried out as long as it has a positive ROI. Now what does this mean exactly? If you operate a single-proprietor e-commerce site and cash flow is a major issue, this means that the return on investment is positive if your net profit per click is higher than the cost you pay per click. As long as your conversion rate isn't miniscule, this should be pretty easy to figure out just by buying a few hundred clicks by the law of large numbers.

If cash flow isn't an immediate concern, you might think about the follow-on effects of purchases, or "word of mouth." If you're selling t shirts, each customer becomes a walking advertisement, so each incremental sale is likely to generate follow on sales in a "multiplier effect." This multiplier is difficult to estimate, but you might be able to get a rough estimate by surveying your customers. Then your "adjusted profit per click" equals your profit per click x the "multiplier." If this number his higher than your PPC, then by all means keep buying ads.

If you are in a venture-backed business where businesses are commonly valued on revenue, rather than profit multipliers, then this reality should be reflected in your internal valuation of "clicks" generated through PPC. If revenue growth of x is needed to secure the next round of financing, then the implied ROI of those purchased clicks.

An additional caveat is that you should always allocate your budget to the highest ROI options first. So if hiring someone to redesign the website costs a few thousand dollars but could double sales, then you'd rather spend the few thousand dollars there than on an PPC campaign, even if you have good reason to believe (based on past PPC results) that the PPC campaign will boost sales by 50%.

The good news is that ROI is easy to figure out -- all you have to do is run a couple of low-cost tests. Unlike in the brick-and-mortar world, testing is easy, cheap, and predictive online. Plus you have the law of large numbers on your side, meaning you can easily generate enough data points to project your future ROI without worrying too much about concepts such as "measurement error."

All this needs to be contrasted with the approach to organic SEO. If you're doing it yourself, organic SEO is free, which corresponds to a very, very high return on investment. So regardless of whether PPC is profitable for you, you should always, always be optimizing organically. It may take a while to see results, but this can be a good thing for you. Why? Because maybe your competitors get frustrated with the slow speed of progress and opt to invest only in PPC instead.

It's a bit like Warren Buffett's view on investing -- he's actually happy when investments go down in value, because he can buy more at a lower price. The more frustrating you find organic SEO, the more likely your competitors are to get frustrated and quit. But as long as you follow the well-known SEO path, you will eventually see positive results, at zero cost.