scriptlance, PayPal & lazyweb

[Tubby]

I recently went to scriptlance.com to find a programmer.
I found a programmer
I paid scriptlance $650 with the intention of transferring the money to the scriptlance escrow (security for myself and the programmer)

Scriptlance informed me that "I was not confirmed" I was required to Fax them my identification.
I have no fax machine, I have no scanner. (and I have to drive to cloncurry to find one - next trip to town is in three weeks)

I now have $650 at scriplance. Scriplance will not recognise this payment.

I notified PayPal That Scriptlance has my money and will not transfer it to the escrow section. Or even recognise it.

Scriptlance ( R3N3 Internet) has not responded to PayPal and merely sent me an email telling me
" my account (lazyweb) is "automatically suspended " (so now I am unconfirmed and suspended with no $650 balance registered)

I merely want the money I deposited to be placed in the escrow so that the programmer can start work. Or for them to send the money back.

What I do not want is $650 dollars locked away for a month while PayPal decides if I deserve to get it back.

Is this a problem that other members have encountered?

I will forward this thread address to Paypal and Scriptlance - So that both sides of this stupidity can get fair representation

[Tubby]

I have also emailed the programmer who quoted on the job. After all the money was supposed to be held for him.

Having done the work of communicating with me and answering my questions . . It seem to be horrible result to find the money intended for him has been Hijacked. . (no fault of his)

[williamc]

I see people complaining about PayPal for this sort of thing a lot actually. Not much you can do except wait out the process, unless you used a credit card to pay thru paypal, in which case you could chargeback thru the card issuer, but then you run the risk of paypal blocking you from future transactions. I would be calling paypal 3-4 times daily until they resolved the situation.

The fault lies more with scriptlance anyway. PayPal is just doing due diligence in the process they have IMO.

[Tubby]

I have no real complaint against PayPal. It was me that initiated the "STOP" because Scriplance refuses to pass the money to the escrow. .

What I dislike about paypal is they will let Scriplance not respond . . and it will take me a month to get a refund (never a certainty)

In the meantime I do net get the work done. .

I just can not get my head around Scriptlance actually having the money - Then refusing to pass it on to their own escrow - Then blaming me! ?

Note; I did try initially to use my credit card to pay into scriptlance. . But scriptlance uses paybooker? or a name similar to that (not looking it up again) . They disputed my differing email address (one is .tpg the older one is .tpgi) presumably I must have used them at an earlier date with a differing email.

Their solution was to ask for my payphone number and send me a code to place on a form . . But I do not have a suitable phone number. Only an old bush phone line - Paypal was the second choice . .

[a53mp]

I've done a lot of work on Scriptlance programmer and have hired a few other programmers from it too. I definitely feel for you on that issue.. it seems like non-US members do kind of get the shaft on the site when it comes to verification. I don't know why they need verification, I'm assuming it's because of past issues with fraud.. I would suggest looking into email->fax services, where you can email or upload your image/document and it will be faxed out that way. Scriptlance is pretty quick at customer service stuff.. so I would highly suggest you consider doing that. They probably suspended your account because you went back to paypal and filed a claim, bypassing their security.. which in turn, puts them in a bad spot. They should have made you provide whatever documentation BEFORE sending in payment.. maybe send in a request for that.. I know of other sites that will ban/block you if you go over their head and file a complaint with paypal without trying to work out the issue directly with the site first. They requested information from you, and instead of submitting it, you file a claim.. to them that might seem like a scammer whos plot didn't work or whatever.. so just sort out the issue, fax in your information and it should be good. They are pretty forgiving there as well.. I've had my accounts blocked 2 or 3 times and I basically had to explain what/why I did whatever I did and apologize and say I won't do it again. no biggie.

[monstercoder]

I have no fax machine, I have no scanner. (and I have to drive to cloncurry to find one - next trip to town is in three weeks)


That's a good 3+ hour drive to go there round trip, isn't it? Seems like a big hassle to do that just to send a measly fax. I had a VoIP phone at home for a while. I do have a fax machine, but the VoIP quality is not good enough to send faxes over. The faxes always get garbled or they time out 1/3rd to 1/2 way through. I feel your pain.

[jhannawin]

I've not used Scriptlance, but I have used oDesk. They use credit card verification and has worked well for me with freelancers in a variety of countries. I know that doesn't help with current issues, but might be worth considering in future.

[clumberman]

I recently went to scriptlance.com to find a programmer.
I found a programmer
I paid scriptlance $650 with the intention of transferring the money to the scriptlance escrow (security for myself and the programmer)

Scriptlance informed me that "I was not confirmed" I was required to Fax them my identification.
I have no fax machine, I have no scanner. (and I have to drive to cloncurry to find one - next trip to town is in three weeks)

I now have $650 at scriplance. Scriplance will not recognise this payment.

I notified PayPal That Scriptlance has my money and will not transfer it to the escrow section. Or even recognise it.

Scriptlance ( R3N3 Internet) has not responded to PayPal and merely sent me an email telling me
" my account (lazyweb) is "automatically suspended " (so now I am unconfirmed and suspended with no $650 balance registered)

I merely want the money I deposited to be placed in the escrow so that the programmer can start work. Or for them to send the money back.

What I do not want is $650 dollars locked away for a month while PayPal decides if I deserve to get it back.

Is this a problem that other members have encountered?

I will forward this thread address to Paypal and Scriptlance - So that both sides of this stupidity can get fair representation

If you paid by credit card, and you can not get satisfaction from PayPal in the next few days, contact the card company directly and file a chargeback on the card. PayPal will have 10 days (at least in the U.S.) to respond to the claim. If you used your PayPal balance, which is essentially cash, you're SOL. You've paid for services which neither PayPal nor Scriptlance have provided; simple as that.

[clumberman]

I see people complaining about PayPal for this sort of thing a lot actually. Not much you can do except wait out the process, unless you used a credit card to pay thru paypal, in which case you could chargeback thru the card issuer, but then you run the risk of paypal blocking you from future transactions. I would be calling paypal 3-4 times daily until they resolved the situation.

The fault lies more with scriptlance anyway. PayPal is just doing due diligence in the process they have IMO.

There's a major PayPal call center about 2 miles from my house. VERY hard to resist the temptation to tag the building, sometimes. };-)

A thought... Check with Scriptlance if they would accept a photo of your i.d. emailed to them. Put your i.d. on that day's paper, with the header visible, shoot it with a camera or your phone, and email it to them. Worth a shot... I've had to do this a couple times over the years, when my fax went down.

[chrisJumbo]

What the programmers on WPW aren't good enough? And they probably wouldn't have put you through such a hassle. of course, maybe too expensive. I guess the only useful thing I can say is next time see if your friends are for hire and or course get yourself verified.

cd :O)

[raja4]

I know it's a pain but what Scriptlance is doing is the perfectly right thing to do. Problem is so many times those credit cards are stolen and sellers has to take extra steps to avoid those frauds and innocent people like you suffer. Around 3 months ago we shipped 4 orders worth around $4500 and all of them were fraud. Person who did the fraud, sent us a fake Govt issued DL, copy of the fake utility statement and fake copy of the American Express credit card. We took the extra steps what we could but those fraudsters are a big challenge for the whole eCommerce business.

[DigiDog]

I've never dealt with Scriptlance but I certainly feel for you on the PayPal end of the ballsup.

I'm in New Zealand and sell a few CDs for a mate of mine who's old jazz muso. He was big in the 60s
and his main audience is 50+ in the UK. People order via the website, pay via PayPal and the CDs are
posted from NZ. Nice and straightforward.

Or at least we thought so. We had one order a couple of years ago where the buyer claimed the CD
had been lost in the mail. So we sent a replacement. Then he claimed that hadn't arrived either. We
weren't inclined to send a third CD so I did some digging and found that the buyer's business had
collapsed and he was in danger of losing his house. At that point the buyer claimed that his credit
card had been stolen and used fraudulently for the original transaction. He requested a refund from
PayPal.

We replied to the PayPal query pointing out that if the transaction (for a single jazz CD - not the
typical scammer's fare) had been fraudulent, why would the buyer claim non-delivery?

Dealing with PayPal was a nightmare. You can only respond via web forms, there don't seem to be
any humans involved at their end and the procedure was slow and remote. In the end PayPal took
the buyer's side, issued him a refund and stung us with a "chargeback" fee. This also sullied our
(until then) perfect trader record. Our further emails to PayPal were ignored. God had spoken.

While we never received any satisfaction from PayPal (they're a horrible company) I built a web
page called "We've been ripped off by (buyer's name) from Essex", SEOed it for the man's name and
stuck it on the muso's site with a link from the front page. Once Google had found it I notified the
"buyer" that if he Googled his name, he now had a permanent legacy for his grandchildren to find.

After a few meaningless defamation threats, the man repaid us for both CDs and the PayPal charges.
This took about a year in total and while we weren't out of pocket any more, our history was sullied
permanently with PayPal.

When you're now in the US at least, dealing with PayPal can be a nightmare.

[Tubby]

I know it's a pain but what Scriptlance is doing is the perfectly right thing to do.

I do not think so raja4. I sent them money for a specific purpose (put it into escrow) . . If they can not do this or do not want to do this they could simply send the money back.

It is not the "prefectly right thing" to simply ignore the situation and lock away the money.

It is the Pefectly Wrong thing, It is theft, or fraud. . .

[Tubby]

What the programmers on WPW aren't good enough? And they probably wouldn't have put you through such a hassle. of course, maybe too expensive. I guess the only useful thing I can say is next time see if your friends are for hire and or course get yourself verified.

cd :O)

mate. I am verified! I am so damned verified it scares me.

I will try to remember next time.

[Tubby]

. They probably suspended your account because you went back to paypal and filed a claim, bypassing their security.

I notified PayPal AFTER I became Obsolete as a site user.
None delivery of goods.


I have no emails or messages here from scriptlance saying "sorry we are having a problem there will be a delay"

[quickregister]

I would be patient and simply comply with all their requirements to confirm your identity. I have done over 80 jobs with Scriptlance and I have found it to be an excellent resource. They need to verify who is sending money to avoid fraud and make it safer to do business for it's members. I know it is a pain to deal with faxes etc but in the end it will be worth it. Not sure where you are but check out local mailbox services even just ask a local business if you can use their copy machine and fax. I pay about $3 per month for a faxage account which I rarely use just for situations like this. Good luck.

[Tubby]

I would be patient and simply comply with all their requirements to confirm your identity.

Quickregister. . I have paid money into Scriptlance for a specific purpose. scriptlance is merely not confident that I am a genuine buyer and has constructed some ad hock extraneous internal rules that I am not capable of complying with, and locked me out.

This is no reason to lock my money away.

It is a perfectly good reason to return it as quickly as possible with a message saying "Sorry we can not accept your paypal money because we have internal problems and no longer accept paypal payments unless we personally know you"

If I bought a pair of shoes and they could not supply them, they would return the money . . Not lock the money away and ignore my protestations. then tell me ' go see PayPal '. . .

[Tubby]

I have to wait

You can close a dispute if you and the seller reach an agreement.

A closed dispute cannot be reopened or escalated to a claim. We automatically close disputes after 20 days unless they have been escalated to a PayPal claim. a dispute if you and the seller reach an agreement.

Otherwise, you can escalate the dispute to a PayPal claim within 20 days of opening the dispute. You must wait seven days to allow for postage before escalating a dispute to a PayPal claim for an item not received. We automatically close disputes after 20 days.

So I have to wait seven days.

[deepsand]

I was going to convey some of my less than satisfactory experiences with PayPal, along with its parent, eBay, and sibling, StubHub. However, I came to my senses, realizing that none were worth the inordinate amount of time required of me for the task.

So, I'll simply summarize by saying the following.

Never do business with eBay, PayPal or StubHub unless absolutely necessary.

[ramorius]

You've only explored options to verify your id via fax. Have you considered taking an picture of your ID and emailing it to them? It would probably have better resolution than the fax anyway...

And, if they insist on fax (why?), there are ways to send a fax via internet websites. (I used to run a site that could convert any document into a tiff or pdf and send it as a fax. Never got it to pay.)

Just a thought.

Rob

[AussieDomainer]

Tubby my fellow queenslander
1/ You should have used Freelancer.com (Aussie run and contactable)
2/ I am a Queensland Justice of the Peace Qualified
send me a photo of your ID as an email. (PM me for email address) And I will certify it and FAX it for you.
3/ Phone me and I will endeavour to help you any way I can.

[Mamoon Rashid]

Well...

I have a solution for you ....for future..

next time you need anything IT related... just hollar at me :P

Cheers!

[monstercoder]

next time you need anything IT related... just hollar at me :P


http://rlv.zcache.com/holla_at_ya_boy_tshirt-p235839984876181278z85i2_152.jpg

[Tubby]

Tubby my fellow queenslander
send me a photo of your ID as an email.

To avoid people getting scammed and fraud -

EVERYONE should fax or email copies of their birth certificate drivers licence etc every time they Pay anyone by PayPal?

This will make the whole Internet secure. . (stupid)

what next?
"Dear Tubby. . We have received your payment . . we need a copy of your marriage certificate before we can post your new shoes "

Yes I am stupid enough to send websites money Via paypal. . But I doubt I will ever be silly enough to start emailing or faxing my personal details to anybody that demands to see them.

[Tubby]

Tubby my fellow queenslander
1/ You should have used Freelancer.com (Aussie run and contactable)


I regularly use Freelancer.com - user name lazy

But the last two projects I posted only received messages Like " I can do this Job I know exactly what you need ". . and then lists a host of urls .

I prefer to work with programmers that respond with. Do you need *****? 0r do you have more information on how ?
scriptlance has more of these. Possibly because Freelancer attract programmers not willing to spend time and effort before the sale of their services.

I need to communicate before I choose . . not after.

[Tubby]

Well...
next time you need anything IT related... just hollar at me :P
Cheers!

I have checked out your website many times Rashid.

[olitekto]

Tubby,
I think the only solution is to send your ID, photo and a document witch prove you address (power, water, internet bill ...). Even if you cant find a scanner do a snapshot of these documents and send them by explaining to the support. I think in this case it's paypal the problem, visa cards processing are quick. Olitekto

[Tubby]

Hi Olitekto - nice to find you here. .

Sorry mate, I can not do that . It is not a PayPal problem, although their system does not help.

Scriptlance disconnect me and the money I sent them for no good reason. They confiscated My money! because they do not have a secure system. .

Now they want to compound their insecurities by demanding users email private details across the internet. I do not want Scriptlance who have virtually admitted they are totally insecure with files containing my personal information.

I have been using PayPal for many years. I am a verified user and I send or receive over 30 transactions a week. paypal has access to my bank account details and can and does regularly move money backwards and forwards between my bank account and their system.

Why would I be so stupid as to send personal details to a website that has already demonstrated their complete disdain for other people money - and an arrogance that allow them to simply ignore my messages to them.

I would rather be dead than submit to these arrogant bastards.

I am currently posting a few hundred links to this thread so that my users know where their membership contributions are going.

[Tubby]

A message from Scriptlance

" As you've already disputed your deposit with paypal, we at this point will have to wait for you to close the complaint which once done, we'll refund your deposit at the earliest. Please feel free to contact us again should you need any further information. Thank you. "Adam

My response as below

"No Adam. You need to respond to PayPal.

We have a dispute. You Have locked money away that I intended to use to pay a freelance programmer.

Asking me to close the dispute is silly, the dispute is not resolved and closing the dispute merely tells PayPay that everything has been sorted out to my satisfaction. IT HAS NOT.

I will be satisfied when the money is safely back in my PayPal account. I do not trust you. You have no respect for other peoples money and you have demonstrated a total disdain of PayPals resolution system. .

Ignoring a PayPal resolution will not make this problem go away."

[scriptlance]

I recently went to scriptlance.com to find a programmer.
I found a programmer
I paid scriptlance $650 with the intention of transferring the money to the scriptlance escrow (security for myself and the programmer)

Scriptlance informed me that "I was not confirmed" I was required to Fax them my identification.
I have no fax machine, I have no scanner. (and I have to drive to cloncurry to find one - next trip to town is in three weeks)

I now have $650 at scriplance. Scriplance will not recognise this payment.

I notified PayPal That Scriptlance has my money and will not transfer it to the escrow section. Or even recognise it.

Scriptlance ( R3N3 Internet) has not responded to PayPal and merely sent me an email telling me
" my account (lazyweb) is "automatically suspended " (so now I am unconfirmed and suspended with no $650 balance registered)

I merely want the money I deposited to be placed in the escrow so that the programmer can start work. Or for them to send the money back.

What I do not want is $650 dollars locked away for a month while PayPal decides if I deserve to get it back.

Is this a problem that other members have encountered?

I will forward this thread address to Paypal and Scriptlance - So that both sides of this stupidity can get fair representation


Thank you for the opportunity to respond.

I understand your frustration, but the verification system we have in place is important for the security of all members. When making a deposit of this size, you must complete a one-time verification of your phone number and by submitting a signed form. As other forum replies mention, this is necessary to prevent fraud on ScriptLance.

I have now refunded your deposit. A refund would have been the outcome of your payment either way, but due to the opening of a PayPal case it was delayed due to internal procedures on our end. I'm sorry you didn't receive responses from our support in sufficient time.

You are now free to pay your hired freelancer directly outside of ScriptLance. Although we don't recommend this, as it provides less security than ScriptLance Escrow services.

Thank you

-Rene Trescases
Owner, ScriptLance.com

[williamc]

Hi Rene, glad to see you taking an active part in this :)

[Tubby]

Thank you Rene.

Problem resolved ................................

I feel inclined to offer the suggestion that you make at least one (bare minimum) modification to your system.

If someone makes a deposit to your website. the amount of 'credit' should be always visible to the user. If this money is unable to be used, moved, transferred, or placed into escrow. It should always be at least . . visible.

Finding a debit of $650 in your PayPal account and a credit of $1 in your scriptlance account is not good.
A users funds should never be 'Disappeared'.

[kgun]

I was going to convey some of my less than satisfactory experiences with PayPal, along with its parent, eBay, and sibling, StubHub. However, I came to my senses, realizing that none were worth the inordinate amount of time required of me for the task.

So, I'll simply summarize by saying the following.

Never do business with eBay, PayPal or StubHub unless absolutely necessary.
I agree.

Never do business with companies that do not accept a direct payment with your credit card unless absolutely necessary. The credit card company is a professional - there to take scam cases.

I have the worlds best travel insurance + + on my Eurocard.

Time is money.

[Tubby]

If I recall corectly I did initially try to use my credit card. Scriptlance uses moneybookers and moneybookers wanted to to me to submit an ID number delivered to me via my mobile phone.

There are no mobile phones in kajabbi (where I live). - The nearest reception is at a location for any sort of reception is called 'the jump up' This is on the dirt road that goes to a local mine.

My regular phone number was not recognised by moneybookers software.

P.S.
I am reasonably happy with PayPal. I have found it frustrating at times . but the end result has always been fair.

[deepsand]

The credit card company is a professional - there to take scam cases.
PayPal is a true card processor, providing of merchant acquiring services; they're just not in the same league as are, for example, First Data, EXS or PaymentTech.

Being a card issuer/servicer/processor or merchant acquirer is no guarantee of being either competent or equitable.

PayPal's problem is that it is incompetent, with individual agents making it up as they go along.

[Tubby]

PayPal is
PayPal's problem is that it is incompetent, with individual agents making it up as they go along.

The whole internet system is still "making it up as they go along"

I myself make it up as I go along. . But if I receive a message from a user with a problem, I will do a double back flip in an attempt to solve it . . Quickly.

Mostly my disgruntlement arises from software that is inflexible, compiled and presented with a lack of some authoritative person to simply over-ride the unforeseen. . . If there is nobody capable of stepping up to the plate or to answer a phone call then they should not implement the software . .

I dislike the "If we wait it will probably go away" attitude. . It would seem in PayPals case - lots of users have done just that "gone away' . . As it stands PayPals hassles have not outweighed PayPal use to me. (I expect the day coming)

on the other hand
Scriplance has 'out softwared' me . . . their system eliminates me from potential user base. (but. . It is 'my own fault' I should live near a fax machine and be willing to send personal information to anyone that requests it )

[kgun]

I have never had problems using my credit card online, but I have had problems with some sites that will not accept it. Usually I can go to another site.