Time to retire a 32-bit processor?

[keyon]

Despite the fact that my PC is four years old, I always thought I had relatively powerful machine (3.2 ghz, 8 GB memory).
However, some of the software I've tried to load recently is generating installation errors -- most of which have something to do with certain components of the software not being compatible with a 32-bit processor. They're not fatal errors, but "warnings" according to the log files.

Is it time to simply retire my old workhorse and go with a 64-bit machine?

[deepsand]

Hell, no. The installed user base of 32 bit machines is simply much too large at the present to expect that support for it is going to disappear anytime soon.

[keyon]

Hell, no. The installed user base of 32 bit machines is simply much too large at the present to expect that support for it is going to disappear anytime soon.

Well, continued support may be one thing, but I question how well a 32-bit machine can run current versions of software (like Windows 7). My experience so far is that it's not working that well. My machine worked great with XP (which certainly has lost support), but after installing W7 and then trying to install some current versions of Adobe products, it doesn't seem to be a very happy computer.

[deepsand]

By "support" I here mean that products for it continue to be developed; it's going to be a very, very long time before 32 bit machines go away.

Your version of Win 7 is a 32 bit version; the 64 bit version would not run on a 32 bit machine.

Any problems that you have owe, not to yours being a 32 bit machine, but to other resource issues.

BTW, support for XP will be around for quite some time to come. MS will be officially supporting it at least until some time in 2014. And, owing in great part to economic conditions, Win 7 is only being very slowly adopted.

[keyon]

BTW, support for XP will be around for quite some time to come. MS will be officially supporting it at least until some time in 2014.
It was my understanding that XP is much more vulnerable to malware, viruses, etc. than Win 7 --- something like 8 times more vulnerable? That was my only reason for switching to Win 7 (I still prefer the XP interface).

In regard to the 32 bit / 64 bit issue, some of the newer Adobe software I've tried to install is reporting installation errors that say I need a 64 bit machine.

[deepsand]

It was my understanding that XP is much more vulnerable to malware, viruses, etc. than Win 7 --- something like 8 times more vulnerable? That was my only reason for switching to Win 7 (I still prefer the XP interface).
True or false - I doubt that that 8x number is realistic - it's immaterial to the issue of 32-bit vs 64.


In regard to the 32 bit / 64 bit issue, some of the newer Adobe software I've tried to install is reporting installation errors that say I need a 64 bit machine.
Be that as it may, it does not alter the fact that 32-bit machines are and will remain the norm for quite some time.

[SteveB]

I do agree with deepsand that support for 32 bit machines will be around for a good number of years, but we're seeing new orders here requesting 64 bit over 32 bit at a rate of approximately 9 to 1.

[deepsand]

I do agree with deepsand that support for 32 bit machines will be around for a good number of years, but we're seeing new orders here requesting 64 bit over 32 bit at a rate of approximately 9 to 1.
Demographics of buyers?

[SteveB]

I think demographics does come into play as most requests we receive for 32 bit machines come from the Middle East.

[deepsand]

Developers or users?

[NetProwler]

Four years is relatively a 'long' period when it comes to hardware/software. Adobe's CS5 suite requires 64 bit CPU as well as 64 bit OS ( Vista/Windows 7) with reasonable amount of RAM specifically to capitalize on the software's capability to make use of the additional Cores in the Processor and also to fully make use of the available physical RAM.

When I bought the CS5 Production Premium suite from Adobe, I didn't factor in the additional cost to upgrade the PC. Finally I ended up upgrading the PC and had to order a Windows 7 Ultimate - just to run the Adobe suite. CS4 doesn't have this minimum requirement of a 64 bit hardware/OS.

[keyon]

Finally I ended up upgrading the PC and had to order a Windows 7 Ultimate
Thanks, NetProwler...I was hoping to find someone who uses CS5.
I've looked at comparison charts between Win 7 Ultimate, Professional, and Home versions....and I'm not really seeing why CS5 needs anything more than Win 7 Home. The added features in Professional and Ultimate seem to be related to things like backups, security features, networking, languages, etc. -- not enhanced software performance.
Can you elaborate?

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/compare


Adobe's CS5 suite requires 64 bit CPU as well as 64 bit OS ( Vista/Windows 7) with reasonable amount of RAM
Yes...I've found this to be true. Although I was able to get both Win 7 and CS5 installed on my 32 bit machine, things are not running that great.

[Boomber]

Most program's and and games today, support only 32 bit. By demographics like already said here, using most of them 32 bit regularly - I've tried 32 bit vs 64 system, there not big difference of all, but If you like running professional software or playing extreme advanced games, that use a lot performance of computer, you should upgrade to Intel i5 or i7 today, with new whole system computer (motherboard, video card, memories, etc.)

[NetProwler]

Thanks, NetProwler...I was hoping to find someone who uses CS5.
I've looked at comparison charts between Win 7 Ultimate, Professional, and Home versions....and I'm not really seeing why CS5 needs anything more than Win 7 Home. The added features in Professional and Ultimate seem to be related to things like backups, security features, networking, languages, etc. -- not enhanced software performance.
Can you elaborate?

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/compare


Yes...I've found this to be true. Although I was able to get both Win 7 and CS5 installed on my 32 bit machine, things are not running that great.

One of the major advantages of 64 bit OS is it allows you to use the full extent of the RAM fitted unlike the cap of 3 GB in the case of 32 bit. For memory hungry applications like CS5, this itself will clinch the issue in favor of 64 bit OS. The easiest way to accelerate a PC is to add more memory and add a SSD at least for the scratch drive. I have just 4 GB for physical RAM and a faster additional drive used as temp/scratch drive. It is fast enough for me.

I opted for Windows 7 Ultimate for one reason - I didn't want to upgrade again for some other reason for some time. It allows you to run Windows XP mode in case you have some applications which won't run in 64 bit (many still need 32 bit drivers or there is no 64 bit driver available yet) mode. Besides you have BitLocker to encrypt your portable/external hard drive - though it may not be an issue if you plan to encrypt using trueCrypt.

You need 64 bit hardware/OS only for Premiere Pro and After Effects in this CS5 version. Photoshop comes in 32 bit and 64 bit versions in this package which gets installed by default in 64 bit OS. You can run whichever version you want. By the way, they include a complimentary version of CS4 (32 bit) so that you can continue to use the software until you decide to upgrade your OS.

[TrafficProducer]

I think 64 bit is mainly about suporting lager memory sizes

[deepsand]

I think 64 bit is mainly about suporting lager memory sizes
In addition to larger address buses, 64 bits also brings:

Larger register sizes, which increase op speed and support integer computations of much larger values; and,
Larger data buses, which increase throughput.

[brazda22]

Hi, friend, I think you should consider buying a new computer, but I don't see any usefull improvemeny (yet) for a 64-bit processors since I have such architecture both in my comp and my laptop. The speed you are gaining is not big as anyone of us would like to, on the other hand, older machines work almoust forever (like the difference beetwen new and old cars, the old ones are consisted only of mechanic while the new one have many electrotechnical stuff which may not work after few years), so as long as you have 32-bit software you should be fine. And don't forget the maintenance of your computer (cleaning and other things).

[Milivoje59]

brazda22, companies learned that if they make products that has shorter lifespan they will make more money. That is the main reason why older machines last forever and new ones don't... :)

[brazda22]

brazda22, companies learned that if they make products that has shorter lifespan they will make more money. That is the main reason why older machines last forever and new ones don't... :)
Of course, Milivoje mate, I know that maybe to well, from my bgd experience...:???:

[keyon]

Hi, friend, I think you should consider buying a new computer.
Yeah...that's exactly what I did. Got an Intel Core i7 2600 Processor 3.4GHz. I'm hoping this will keep me running for at least a couple years :-)

[alphaomega]

I have had 32 bit computers for a very long time, tried the first 64 bit years ago, but at the time there was no software to support it. My board died about ten months ago and I purchased AMD CPU and board since I had no boards available for my old duo Intel. It is a 64 bit CPU and I installed 8GB of high speed RAM with it. I updated Windows 7 to Professional 64 bit and run Photoshop CS5, which is natively written in 64 bit. The difference in speed is phenomenal. Since Windows 64 bit can handle more RAM, all other programs run better, because I have the RAM available for it. So overall the 64 bit is an improvement. If you can spend the money go 64 bit. If you can spend little more go Intel i7 4 cores. Runs much faster than AMD.

[TrafficProducer]

I have had 32 bit computers for a very long time, tried the first 64 bit years ago, but at the time there was no software to support it. My board died about ten months ago and I purchased AMD CPU and board since I had no boards available for my old duo Intel. It is a 64 bit CPU and I installed 8GB of high speed RAM with it. I updated Windows 7 to Professional 64 bit and run Photoshop CS5, which is natively written in 64 bit. The difference in speed is phenomenal. Since Windows 64 bit can handle more RAM, all other programs run better, because I have the RAM available for it. So overall the 64 bit is an improvement. If you can spend the money go 64 bit. If you can spend little more go Intel i7 4 cores. Runs much faster than AMD.

:) This will help me think about getting 64 bit hardware, if I ever get the cash to do this.

[deepsand]

Since Windows 64 bit can handle more RAM, all other programs run better, because I have the RAM available for it.
The greater gains come, not from an increased address space, but from:

Larger register sizes, which increase op speed and support arithmetic computations of much larger values; and,
Larger data buses, which increase throughput.

[alphaomega]

The greater gains come, not from an increased address space, but from:

Larger register sizes, which increase op speed and support arithmetic computations of much larger values; and,
Larger data buses, which increase throughput.

Of course, 64 bit pipe handles lot more data than 32 bit pipe. What is your background in IT deep?

[deepsand]

What is your background in IT deep?
From PENNSTAC (http://www.ee.psu.edu/history/pennstac.html) (1958-59) forward.

http://www.psu.edu/ur/about/markers/pix/pennstac2.jpg http://www.psu.edu/ur/about/markers/pix/pennstac1.jpg

[mikmik]

Is that you on the right, or left, deepsand?

[deepsand]

I'm off-stage, behind the curtain.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-28caYNNH96k/Ti_5G88JT6I/AAAAAAAAAGc/nRPod3dPiDU/s1600/cpay-no-attention-to-the-man-behind-the-curtain2.jpg

[Eric24]

I'd say that overall, we're still in a "transition period" for 32- and 64-bit processors. While 64-bit processors, even in laptops, have been common for years, and are almost the norm in servers, there is still a slew of software that has to run in "32-bit compatibility" mode when running it on a 64-bit system. Luckily, that happens transparently, so it's not something you really have to think about. As far as buying a new computer today, there's certainly no reason to not buy a 64-bit machine, but whether or not you should upgrade your 32-bit machine is really a question of whether it's working for you or not: for example, do you need more RAM (greater than 4GB, of which you can really only use ~3GB on a 32-bit system) or do you have some specific software that needs or could benefit from a 64-bit system?

[TrafficProducer]

Moore's law but for address and data bus

Moore's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law), the empirical observation that the transistor density of integrated circuits doubles every 2 years

Just think if we had this...

We have had it to some extent 4bit, 6bits, 8bits, 16bits, etc..

but if Moore's law was true for address and data bus sizes shurely we would be at GigaByte address and data bus by now?

Also for Internat BandWith

[keyon]

...or do you have some specific software that needs or could benefit from a 64-bit system?
Well, it's been three months since I started this thread - and the 32-bit vs 64-bit issue still gives me trouble now and then. I did buy a new system (64-bit) because the software I needed kept telling me it wouldn't work properly on a 32-bit machine. So the new software is working fine. However, now I'm discovering that some of the older hardware devices (that I used with my old machine) are powered by drivers that are incompatible with 64-bit processors. Some of the manufacturers provide updated drivers (online)...some not. It's kind of a hassle either way.

I guess nothing lasts forever.

[TrafficProducer]

32 bit drivers on 64bit machine I wondered which 32 bit hardware devices, (out your old computer), you are trien to use on your 64bit computer?

[keyon]

I wondered which 32 bit hardware devices
Well, for one, I have a Tascam microphone mixer (about 2-3 years old). When I tried to re-install the software on my new computer, I got an error message saying something to the effect that the driver provided on the disc is for 32-bit machines, and I need to find a different driver that will work with my 64-bit computer.

[TrafficProducer]

Well, for one, I have a Tascam microphone mixer (about 2-3 years old). When I tried to re-install the software on my new computer, I got an error message saying something to the effect that the driver provided on the disc is for 32-bit machines, and I need to find a different driver that will work with my 64-bit computer.

What no help at, quite a number of links indicate 64 bit :-P :-

http://tascam.com/product/us-144mkii/downloads/

(If you tried these already, sorry to sound arrogant, I am tring to help you out, without knowing, if I can)

[keyon]

quite a number of links indicate 64 bit
Yeah..the us-144 is the new(er) tascam model -- that replaces mine, which is discontinued.
I went ahead and downloaded the driver for new model...hoping it might work with my old unit. I think it works. However, it was a little confusing trying to get the old hardware to find and recognize the new driver.
I guess my point in all this conversation is that I didn't realize 32-bit systems and 64-bit systems would be so incompatible. Maybe it's just certain things that don't jive. I'm no hardware expert, that's for sure.

[weegillis]

Caution: May contain fluff.

When Windows went from 16-bit to 32-bit the fur was in the fan, as I remember. Their engineers quickly 'overcame' this with a method known as 'thunking.' It was an effort to support 16-bit software in the new architecture by mimicking it (or fooling the computer into thinking it is 16-bit). Not all that impractical, actually. I don't believe this issue hung around for long, but the thunking aspect lived in all versions of Windows right up to 98.

Of course, back then buss speeds where abysmally slower than today's hardware, and components simpler, smaller scale and far more integrated into the motherboard. Today's hardware is PnP in a big way, depending on a range of services and support drivers. This renders them massively more difficult to 'thunk' into compatibility in practical terms in a way that would allow applications to play well together. I don't know where I read this years ago, but IRQ conflicts were just the beginning of the problem.

[arungupta2012]

64-bit processor is better and faster then 32-bit processor technically. 64-bit processor have ability to handle more heavier processing and throughout high data output while comparing with 32-bit processor. But the thing is their are lots of software which only runs on 32-bit platform. Most of popular and big software are available for both 32-bit and 64-bit system, but not all. Because 32-bit is the most popular and affordable machine and used by probably most of official and home PC.

But still time is changing and we need to go high with technology, And the biggest reason for switch to 64-bit machine is the memory handling capacity.
Yes, 64-bit machine have capacity to support the RAM of 92GB where 32-bit machine supports only 4GB of RAM only (In Windows XP, Vista, Win7)

[edhan]

Yes. But with the current market in the software industry, it is still having 32-bit software. So moving up to 64-bit will definitely going to take a year or two before you can see the trend. Whether or not the 32-bit will retire be dependent on the software industry.