SEO, Local Keywords, Same City Names In Different States

[morestar]

Good day members of WebProWorld, I've got a question that's be tugging at me for some time about search volume checking with a city name like Orlando which is actually a city in two other states.

So far I'm using Google's keyword tool (if there's a paid one that does the trick please let me know) and finding for instance for a volume check for "Orlando doctors" about 14,800 local monthly searches.

My problem as you can see is that the 14,800 must be divided by the three cities - or not?

How does one determine which volumes come from Orlando Florida? I know, of course I could use the keywords "Orlando doctors fl", or "Orlando doctors, florida" but I won't be throwing Florida all over any anchor text references and the volumes of those searches would only return results specific to them, not "Orland doctors".

Calling all the SEO experts!

[kgun]

So far I'm using Google's keyword tool (if there's a paid one that does the trick please let me know) and finding for instance for a volume check for "Orlando doctors" about 14,800 local monthly searches.

There should be a tool for this. Indirectly you may (I have not tried) get an indication by combining AdWords with Google Analytics. What about WordTracker?

What about finding new related terms by using Google sets: http://labs.google.com/sets

How detailed are your server logs? Is it possible to make your own tool? What about local search and long tail KW's?

[morestar]

Thanks K, google set didn't offering anything, the volumes aren't that high already. I don't think our own logs would help. I'm going to look at WordTracker again but lost faith in it a while back, especially when they weren't offering Canadian search volumes and don't know if they are now in the first place.

[defensity]

The keyword tool doesn't determine where the search is coming from.
Only that those terms were searched for.

[rhaden]

Google's keyword suggestion tool gives you both "global monthly search" and "local monthly search." Look at the "local search" and compare it with the "global search." If you're not in one of the cities yourself, ask someone who is to check it for you.

[virginiasem]

Good day members of WebProWorld, I've got a question that's be tugging at me for some time about search volume checking with a city name like Orlando which is actually a city in two other states.

So far I'm using Google's keyword tool (if there's a paid one that does the trick please let me know) and finding for instance for a volume check for "Orlando doctors" about 14,800 local monthly searches.

My problem as you can see is that the 14,800 must be divided by the three cities - or not?

How does one determine which volumes come from Orlando Florida? I know, of course I could use the keywords "Orlando doctors fl", or "Orlando doctors, florida" but I won't be throwing Florida all over any anchor text references and the volumes of those searches would only return results specific to them, not "Orland doctors".

Calling all the SEO experts!

In Google AdWords the tool "insights for search" is designed to show searches by region. It would be just what you are looking for except in my experience it doesn't work well because the data seems sketchy for low volume searches.

[deepsand]

Have you tried changing your geo-location setting preparatory to viewing local monthly search?

[morestar]

In Google AdWords the tool "insights for search" is designed to show searches by region. It would be just what you are looking for except in my experience it doesn't work well because the data seems sketchy for low volume searches.

Great thanks so far Virginiasem, it's funny, Google Insights doesn't offer Orlando, Kentucky nor Orlando, Oklahoma as drop down options for the region. Apparently there's been some disambiguation over this and they're both unincorporated
communities.

I just chose the "All Metros" option and found there were virtually no searches for those keywords in both said regions.

With that, I appreciate your assistance, I guess I missed the news that the Insights were out. Pretty sweet!

[morestar]

Have you tried changing your geo-location setting preparatory to viewing local monthly search?

Yes I have , if you're talking about the Advanced settings...

[NJ]

The keyword tool doesn't determine where the search is coming from.
Only that those terms were searched for.

Ah, Good Point!!! I don't know how many states have a city named Auburn, but CA, WA, AL are the minimum. But, if I search for Hotels Auburn, I get all three states, even though AL results are more prominent. Interesting, if Google is using my geography to determine the most relevant results, it really messed up this time - I'm in Montana!

[PhilipDunn]

Morestar,

I also have a doctor in Orlando and your question has me thinking. I know its been rather easy to rank for the suburbs and have been confused as to why Orlando has been unusually more difficult to attain. I guess we are competing for these two other cities.

[Web Res]

I've always thought that people searching for the 'other' Orlando would be quickly aware from their search result that they needed to refine their terms; add a state and search again to get an accurate return. I'm doing a new website today for Swansea Tasmania and there are a lot of Swansea's in the world including several in Australia. All I can assume is that I really need to make the website locality obvious in the title tags and using micro-formatting.

I know this isn't answering anything. Very interested to see more ideas. Good subject.

[planetjeffy]

It doesn't matter. Google determines your location and shows you on the left of the SERP, above Search Tools - or you can change it yourself. You need to optimize for Doctor + Orlando, Orlando FL and Orlando Florida. Those keywords might not have huge local (USA) or global numbers - but they are the relevant keywords for your campaign.

[deepsand]

It doesn't matter. Google determines your location and shows you on the left of the SERP, above Search Tools - or you can change it yourself. You need to optimize for Doctor + Orlando, Orlando FL and Orlando Florida. Those keywords might not have huge local (USA) or global numbers - but they are the relevant keywords for your campaign.
The OP is not interested in the usual SERPs.

Neither is he here speaking of optimizing for a given geo-location, but rather about getting accurate query string volume data re. Google's current user base.

[morestar]

Morestar,

I also have a doctor in Orlando and your question has me thinking. I know its been rather easy to rank for the suburbs and have been confused as to why Orlando has been unusually more difficult to attain. I guess we are competing for these two other cities.

Well to be honest with you it's a type of doctor, not a regular 'doctor' as we consider one. So no worries, but that'd be interesting if we were competing...

[morestar]

I've always thought that people searching for the 'other' Orlando would be quickly aware from their search result that they needed to refine their terms; add a state and search again to get an accurate return.

This could be true and seems to be but the original search and keywords should still be logged as such, even if they had to refine their terms. But again there really was no data to show for Orlando in those other two cities...it looked like none.

[morestar]

It doesn't matter. Google determines your location and shows you on the left of the SERP, above Search Tools - or you can change it yourself. You need to optimize for Doctor + Orlando, Orlando FL and Orlando Florida. Those keywords might not have huge local (USA) or global numbers - but they are the relevant keywords for your campaign.

I kind of don't know what you mean, could you explain further? We're talking about search volumes...

[martindow]

I would have thought that the searches are likely to be in proportion to their populations. Orlando FL is over 2 miliion, KY 1000 and OK 200. On this basis there are only going to be a handful of searches relation to KY or OK. As has been said, anyone not in FL searching is soon going to have to change their search string to find any results.

[morestar]

I would have thought that the searches are likely to be in proportion to their populations. Orlando FL is over 2 miliion, KY 1000 and OK 200. On this basis there are only going to be a handful of searches relation to KY or OK. As has been said, anyone not in FL searching is soon going to have to change their search string to find any results.

Bright answer and good call Martin...I should have probably checked out the populations in the first place...

[kgun]

Great thanks so far Virginiasem, it's funny, Google Insights doesn't offer Orlando, Kentucky nor Orlando, Oklahoma as drop down options for the region. Apparently there's been some disambiguation over this and they're both unincorporated
communities.


Didn't i indicate Google Adwords in my first answer to this thread:


There should be a tool for this. Indirectly you may (I have not tried) get an indication by combining AdWords with Google Analytics. What about WordTracker?



MapLoco allows you to add stunning maps to your website showing the cities your site visitors are coming from. You'll get detailed statistics about the number of hits from thousands of cities and countries across the world. MapLoco allows you to zoom in to continents for a closer view of each geographic area to help you better understand your audience.
Source: http://www.maploco.com/

Most probably not better than Google AdWords, since Google sit on the data. And is it possible in the socalled detailed statistics to relate visitor to KW statistics?

[deepsand]

Didn't i indicate Google Adwords in my first answer to this thread
Aside from the fact that that presumes access to an AdWords account, such account do not have access to any greater pool of data and/or tools for accessing such.

As for Analytics, that's not going to capture any data re. off-site activities.

[kgun]

Aside from the fact that that presumes access to an AdWords account, such account do not have access to any greater pool of data and/or tools for accessing such.
I have an AdWords account but never tried the AdWords tools like the AdWords KW tool?

So this

In Google AdWords the tool "insights for search" is designed to show searches by region. It would be just what you are looking for except in my experience it doesn't work well because the data seems sketchy for low volume searches.

is incorrect?

As I told in my first post, I have not tried the different tools.

[deepsand]

Google Insights for Search (http://www.google.com/insights/search/#) is available to all, without regards to any accounts with Google.

And, Keyword Tool - Google Adwords (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDoQFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fadwords.google.com%2Fselect%2FKe ywordToolExternal&rct=j&q=adwords%20keyword%20tool&ei=oXgFTuXsBMWBgAfg4rXnDQ&usg=AFQjCNGTVtE8qvjaqHJgAAJEqL2HwooXJw&cad=rja) can be used either internally or externally to an AdWord account.

[kgun]

Good day members of WebProWorld, I've got a question that's be tugging at me for some time about search volume checking with a city name like Orlando which is actually a city in two other states.

My problem as you can see is that the 14,800 must be divided by the three cities - or not?

So why should 14 800 / 3 be an unbiased estimate for the traffic from the three different cities? Is there any reason to believe the searches to be evenly distributed between the three cities?



How does one determine which volumes come from Orlando Florida? I know, of course I could use the keywords "Orlando doctors fl", or "Orlando doctors, florida" but I won't be throwing Florida all over any anchor text references and the volumes of those searches would only return results specific to them, not "Orland doctors".





In Google AdWords the tool "insights for search" is designed to show searches by region. It would be just what you are looking for except in my experience it doesn't work well because the data seems sketchy for low volume searches.
Sketchy for low volume searches. It may be difficult to get a precise estimate.

So my best proposal is to use Google AdWords and be more specific about the state to get a more precise estimate of how 14 800 should be divided among the three cities in the different states?

[deepsand]

So my best proposal is to use Google AdWords and be more specific about the state to get a more precise estimate of how 14 800 should be divided among the three cities in the different states?
Said tool does not provide for that level of granularity with regards to location. So, the only way to attempt to specify a location is by way of altering the query string; which does, of course, materially alter the results.

Thus, here one must use the broadest possible query string, "orlando doctor," and manually review the 94 displayed results, which yields, sorted by search volume, the following 63 relevant results:


Keyword Local Monthly Searches

doctor orlando 49500
doctor in orlando 49500
orlando doctors 14800
doctors orlando 14800
doctors in orlando 14800
doctor orlando fl 14800
doctor orlando florida 14800
orlando physicians 9900
physicians orlando 9900
physicians in orlando 9900
doctors in orlando fl 5400
orlando florida doctors 5400
doctors orlando fl 5400
doctors in orlando florida 5400
ob gyn orlando 3600
physicians in orlando fl 3600
physicians orlando fl 3600
ob gyn in orlando 3600
orlando florida physicians 2900
physicians orlando florida 2900
orlando eye doctor 1900
eye doctor orlando 1900
eye doctor in orlando 1900
orlando family physicians 1600
orlando eye doctors 1000
eye doctors in orlando 1000
eye doctors orlando 1000
family practice orlando 880
orlando family practice 880
orlando family doctor 720
best orlando doctors 720
best doctors orlando 720
eye doctor orlando fl 590
ent doctors in orlando 590
eye doctor orlando florida 590
ear doctor orlando 590
doctors weight loss orlando 590
orthopedic doctor orlando 480
orthopedic doctors in orlando 480
orlando doctors office 390
medicaid doctors in orlando 390
pain management doctors orlando 260
orthopedic doctors in orlando fl 260
family doctors orlando fl 260
orlando pain management doctors 260
orthopedic doctors orlando fl 260
foot doctor orlando 210
family doctor orlando fl 210
family doctor in orlando fl 210
orlando weight loss doctor 210
foot doctor in orlando 210
pediatric doctors in orlando 170
doctors offices in orlando fl 170
naturopathic doctor orlando 140
pain management doctors in orlando florida 140
doctor offices in orlando fl 140
pain management doctors orlando fl 140
best doctors in orlando 2010 110
holistic doctors in orlando fl 73
pediatric eye doctor orlando 73
immigration doctors in orlando 28

[kgun]

Said tool does not provide for that level of granularity with regards to location. So, the only way to attempt to specify a location is by way of altering the query string; which does, of course, materially alter the results.

First of all I am from another continent:confused: so before this thread I only knew of one Orlando and I did not know the state. There are many places in Norway named Skjold, Birkeland etc. I am able to find Orlando fl and Orlando ca. So in which state is the third city? How big are the three cities?



Thus, here one must use the broadest possible query string, "orlando doctor," and manually review the 94 displayed results, which yields, sorted by search volume, the following 63 relevant results:


Keyword Local Monthly Searches
doctor orlando 49500
doctor in orlando 49500
orlando doctors 14800
doctors orlando 14800
doctors in orlando 14800
doctor orlando fl 14800
doctor orlando florida 14800


Which search tool produced the above monthly local results? Is there Google local in different American states?



What are the exact quoted results if any?
So there are no (exact) reults if Orlando ca, and the third city's state replaces Orlando fl above?




Keyword Local Monthly Searches

doctor orlando 49500
doctor in orlando 49500
orlando doctors 14800
doctors orlando 14800
doctors in orlando 14800
doctor orlando fl 14800
doctor orlando florida 14800


Based on the above statistics, what are your conclution in relation to the op? Do those results answer the original question? I am:confused: and not on a higher level?:roll::wink:

[deepsand]

First of all I am from another continent:confused: so before this thread I only knew of one Orlando and I did not know the state. There are many places in Norway named Skjold, Birkeland etc. I am able to find Orlando fl and Orlando ca.
That's Orland, CA.


So in which state is the third city? How big are the three cities?
Populations, Orlando:
FL - 238,300 (city proper, 2009 Census est.)
FL - 2,082,628 (entire metro area, 2010 Census)
KY - 586 (unincorporated community, 2010 Census)
OK - 2230 (unincorporated community, 2010 Census)
TN - not reported (unincorporated community, no longer extant)


Which search tool produced the above monthly local results?
Keyword Tool - Google Adwords (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDoQFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fadwords.google.com%2Fselect%2FKe ywordToolExternal&rct=j&q=adwords%20keyword%20tool&ei=oXgFTuXsBMWBgAfg4rXnDQ&usg=AFQjCNGTVtE8qvjaqHJgAAJEqL2HwooXJw&cad=rja), used external to an account


Is there Google local in different American states?
For our purposes here re. keywords, none that I'm aware of. Said tool provides fro selecting at a country level only.


What are the exact quoted results if any?
Broad match (unquoted) was used so as to get the maximum number of results.


So there are no (exact) reults if Orlando ca, and the third city's state replaces Orlando fl above?
As shown in the results, the only State used by searcher was "FL." Presumably this owes to the exceedingly small populations in and around the other two extant Orlandos in the US.


Based on the above statistics, what are your conclution in relation to the op?
He can safely assume that all reported results are relevant to Orlando, FL.

[kgun]

He can safely assume that all reported results are relevant to Orlando, FL.
Finally I got the answer I was looking for. So his assumption of an even distribution (dividing by 3) is very biased?

Excellent post deepsand. I must distribute some more green power before I can give more to you.

Congratualtion as a moderator.