New Google Bombing Method Found

[Garrett]

On the 6th of May Philipp Lenssen of Google Blogoscoped started an experiment. He added a false parameter and keyword to a link to a high PR site to see if the site would appear for the key phrase. His test was http://www.cnn.com/?-gmail-account.

The parameter is false but does not break the CNN page. He created a single link on his blog like this: http://www.cnn.com/?-gmail-account.

At the time of the first Blogoscope post (http://blog.outer-court.com/archive/2004_05_06_index.html#108385851918769310) there were 148,000 pages for the term "Gmail Account."

Yesterday Blogoscope reported (http://blog.outer-court.com/archive/2004_05_13_index.html#108446551263368358) that, for the search term "Gmail Account," CNN shows up at #14 in Google.

Today CNN appears in the 18th position for this term, and the url it shows is, of course, www.cnn.com/?-gmail-account. Incidentally there are only 102,000 pages for that term now.

(Yahoo returned 250,000 results and CNN didn't appear in the top 200 results.)

WooHoo! Let's start bombing!

I first tried to bomb http://www.google.com/?-teoma-rules, but that leads to a 404 page (though it's a 404 with a PR of 10...).

Scott, who creates our daily WebProNews images (like this one (http://www.webpronews.com/insiderreports/searchinsider/wpn-49-20040220DoesGoogleFilterResults.html)) and discusses risky seo tactics (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=high+risk+seo/v=2/TID=H028_0/SID=w/l=WS1/R=1/H=0/*-http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?p=94105) with me, pointed out that you can use a "#" in place of a "?" and not break the page.

And so, here's http://www.google.com/#-Teoma-Rules. I've not seen the "#" tested so we'll see what happens.

To double check I'll also create this little bomb and see what happens: http://www.yahoo.com/#-Teoma-Rules

And now for the one I'm more certain will work: http://www.yahoo.com/?Teoma-Rules

While I'm bombing I may as well hit this way too: Teoma Rules (http://www.webpronews.com/insiderreports/searchinsider/wpn-49-20040514NewGoogleBombingMethodFound.html).

As of 5-14-04 there are 32,300 pages for "Teoma Rules." This should be much easier to rank for than Philipp's "Gmail Account."

[WebMetro]

This is interesting on a few different levels.
Most interesting to myself, is the fact that Google still values keywords within URL when it ranks sites. I thought Google would put this on the bottom of the pile when it comes to SEO, but this proves that it may actually be in the middle of the pile or closer to the top.

With this in mind, you may want to Google bomb yourself and see if you can move up in rankings. If you're ranked #10, this may move you up a couple spots. Although Google does seem to consider cnn.com and cnn.com?keyword two different pages, perhaps Google will see a correlation and help you out on the SEO front. Not really sure about this... just an idea.

I also find it interesting that Google cannot tell that cnn.com is the same as cnn.com/?keyword

Traditionally, Google has not had any trouble realizing both URLs point to one page. Perhaps CNN is different because it is always being updated? My guess is, this will probably only work with a few sites out there, but should be fun to test out.

I'll be playing around with this to see if there are any other benefits.

[bjbtexas]

www.yahoo.com/?Teoma-Rules - number three over night, its magic!

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Teoma+Rules

Any way to use that?

[haldous2]

How do you get your ranking up with this google bomb? I understand the method, I just don't get the implementation. ie.. I own allmeetup.com, how would I get my ranking up using the google bomb?

[richkoi]

um...won't Google catch on and ban bombers for messing with their system?

Rich

[keywordguy]

While I think this is a great nugget of information to experiment with or even exploit, I wonder how long it will last before Google implements some type of filter for this technique.

I'm going to run some of my own experiments and keep everyone informed of my results.

[tcady]

what I see is it only works for GREAT (high Page Rank) sites - and only on obscure search strings....
Try something with a very competitive string in it and see if it ranks - like "digital cameras" ...this is more of just a " I'm playing around because I can effect the SERPs overnight -cause I can! " thing...of no use to really get our own sites ranked better.... but as silly as it may seem - it is pretty cool to see one can make something so simple appear on google in the top 10 overnight :)

[dm_ralph]

um...won't Google catch on and ban bombers for messing with their system?

Rich

I dont see why they should ban you for this. When you use the "domain.com/index.html#keywords" format, you would be using an anchor link from another page. I dont see why this is considered a new technique. If you are sending traffic from "page1.html" with an anchor link to "page2.html#here-is-the-info" then you are essentially just anchoring.

[HansenConnection]

How do you get your ranking up with this google bomb? I understand the method, I just don't get the implementation. ie.. I own allmeetup.com, how would I get my ranking up using the google bomb?

I'm not sure how this will help a site ranking as well.

Can someone explain?

[sovidiu]

'lo all. Great post, Garett. I've given you a 9/10 PR (Personal Rank) on my search engine :)

Why 9/10?

Because there is another trick to this procedure involving a /# Google force-up. This discovery is really a great advantage. Thanks for the tip. And btw, there is also that <index,nofollow> trick on the main and backward links on non-indexed Web pages forcing Google to give you a higher PR on your root directory, as result to second-level pages' PR.

[incraftfun]

Would the best way to do this be simply writing http://incraftfun.com/#-beach-glass here in this forum is likely to increase my PR? Or is there some other way of doing it?

Alex[/url]

[dunhelmian]

I also would like to know if posting http://www.truegiftsuk.com/?-gift-idea will help me, or is this too big a listing area and my site too small for it to have any real effect?

[Blackicicle]

I can think of a way to use this to boost my ranking but as was mentioned earlier... Not worth getting banned for!

[Blackicicle]

The first thing that came to mind was to use some sort of PR Leaching that will redirect the high PR site to yours but that doesn't seem to work.

Many site like yahoo and msn use special urls to redirect to other site... as shown below, I thought that maybe you would be able to use that to your benefit.

EG:
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/auctions/frontpage/north3spots/rings/*http://www.mywebsite.com as the link url and then maybe using the keyword as the title text of the link.

so it would be


<a href=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/auctions/frontpage/north3spots/rings/*http://www.mywebsite.com>Keyword Here</a> this way google would pick up the high yahoo pr site with your keyword but when the user clicks it, their browser would got to yahoo then they will be redirected to your site... But that isn't very ethical.

This of course does not work... And yahoo would eventually figure out that you are riding their bandwidth wagon and come after you.[/code]

[RWD]

ok, I am a bit stupid when it comes to this. where do I put this code with the /# do I place it in the meta tags?? or make links on other websites the code.

my site is http://www.motorsportslinks.com and http://www.motorsportslinks.com/forums

[sovidiu]

Instead of:

http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?p=103942#103942

use:
http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?p=103942#-corn_field_Alabama_shoppers

mod_rewrite, and you're set to go. If only this page would have a higher PR :)

Or worse:
http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?p=103942#-corn_field_Alabama_shoppers#-look_at_the_moon#-googler_goggles_reseller

etc.

This could be put to better use if you want to update a Web document containg a time-related information, similar to:

http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?p=103942#-2004-05-28_Indiana_hosting_rebates_9_days_left

It involves the PHPBB randomly-generated Web pages, in this case, but it's worthed.

RWD, feel free to use:

http://www.motorsportslinks.com/#index.html#motor_sport , where "motor_sports" is a variable (aka it can be replaced with your key-words).

[RWD]

Thanks, do I use that link when advertising my site on other websites, and submit it to google etc?

thanks.

[richardandlori]

[quote="sovidiu"]Instead of:

http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?p=103942#103942

use:
http://www.webproworld.com/v.....

quote]

this sounds very interesting for me too. so as i have read here i should put this between the tags like:
meta... keywords=....
meta... description...
etc
etc

is that so?
your help is appreciate it.

Thank you!
Richard
www.melaforum.com
Real Stories!

[richardandlori]

www.yahoo.com/?Teoma-Rules - number three over night, its magic!

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Teoma+Rules

Any way to use that?

i noticed your post and it sounds great! can i ask you where did you include that link? you know the "http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Teoma+Rules" ??? I AM astonished someone has found a neat technique that could be helpful for all those who would like to step up out of the crowd.

thank you!
Richard
www.melaforum.com
Real Stories!

[crumpler]

Excuse me if I'm wrong on this, but isn't part of the point of this bomb to knock other websites out of the google results for a given keyword??? The trend that I followed from your post is that there were 140,000+ results for "gmail account". Then when you used the bomb... the number of results dropped to just over 100,000. Same thing for "teoma rules". It's now down to just over 30,000. It, in essence, lessens the competition for some reason.

How it helps to boost your own rankings is beyond me, though... or is this just a way to boost high PR sites to even higher rankings for obscure search terms????

[matchie]

Very interesting. I've added a link to
http://www.1800plasmas.com/?-plasma-television to see if this has any effect for me.

[smsali_in]

'lo all. Great post, Garett. I've given you a 9/10 PR (Personal Rank) on my search engine :)

Why 9/10?

Because there is another trick to this procedure involving a /# Google force-up. This discovery is really a great advantage. Thanks for the tip. And btw, there is also that <index,nofollow> trick on the main and backward links on non-indexed Web pages forcing Google to give you a higher PR on your root directory, as result to second-level pages' PR.

Can you please be more descriptive about how to link from which page. Also if possible, can you plz give some live exampl so that i can check it and understand properly.

Thanks for your support.

[Dave Hawley]

Hmmmm, as knowingly manipulating the SERP's is against Google's guide-lines this seems to be one way to get into hot water with Google.

[GregBaskin]

I'm new to these forums and would like to subscribe to this thread ... is there a way to do this?

[verygreatful]

No one explained as of yet how or where to put these links on your site.
Do you add an invisable link anywhere on your site or where exactly would you put the links?

I noticed a few people have already asked but never got an answer.

[effisk]

I'm new to these forums and would like to subscribe to this thread ... is there a way to do this?By sending a reply, you just did ;)

[effisk]

Many site like yahoo and msn use special urls to redirect to other site... as shown below, I thought that maybe you would be able to use that to your benefit.

so it would be


<a href=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/auctions/frontpage/north3spots/rings/*http://www.mywebsite.com>Keyword Here</a> this way google would pick up the high yahoo pr site with your keyword but when the user clicks it, their browser would got to yahoo then they will be redirected to your site... But that isn't very ethical.

This of course does not work... And yahoo would eventually figure out that you are riding their bandwidth wagon and come after you
=> Why wouldn't it work? I'll have a go (and I'll make it big):

http://rd.yahoo.com/bonnefous/bonnefous/*http://effisk.chez.tiscali.fr/?bonnefous

[jvmills]

Hmmmm, as knowingly manipulating the SERP's is against Google's guide-lines this seems to be one way to get into hot water with Google.

I agree Google would punish anyone manipulating its SERPS but how would they distinguish legitimate url parameters, or anchors?

[crobike]

When I use promotional products (http://www.crobike.de?Promotional-Products) ? Will this increase my ranking ? I think it will because when you use the keyword in the anchor text it will increase the rank in google and yahoo (rank #38 now)

[chrisblack]

I'm somewhat confused about using this technique

I've placed the following links on my front page

http://www.bantryyouth.net/#index.html#bantry
http://www.bantryyouth.net/#index.html#youth_work

Is this the correct place to put the links - or should I be getting someone else to place these links on their site??

Thanks

Chris

[drelias]

Hmm, this is very interesting; ok I will post some urls in a few places and see what it will do.

Let's start here: he he...

http://www.onlineroyalcasino.com/index.htm#online-casino

http://www.onlineroyalcasino.com/index.htm#online-gambling

Elias ;-)

[Dave Hawley]

I agree Google would punish anyone manipulating its SERPS but how would they distinguish legitimate url parameters, or anchors?

I don't know. But Google manage to do many things that many of us have no idea how. perhaps they cannot distinguish???

IMO, this thread started by Garret is quite irresposible. We must remember most of us here have Web sites that are our livelihoods. As far as I am concerned, this is like teaching butchers how to quietly place their finger on the scales while weighing the Porterhouse steak!

[Justeen]

I have to say the technique is still not explained and still unclear.

Let's say the keyword I'm, aiming to is "digital camera".

so I add a link on my index:
http://www.mydomain.com/?-digital-camera

is that it? and? now I will be higher ranked by google and/or yahoo? why? or do I need others to link to my site with that url (http://www.mydomain.com/?-digital-camera)?

[crobike]

When I use the link below will this technique work too. http://directory.promopeddler.com/out.php?ID=63&Promotional-Products

Or is this false ? Any tips any comments.

[trevorm]

Its got me buggered too. my site is http://www.hapkido.homestead.com
and my keyword is hapkido

how do i set this up?

Regards,

Trevor

[nimcorp]

My website is http://www.nimcorp.com

How in the heck do i use this trick to get a higher ranking for my National Independence Mortgage website for my company in eagan, mn?

My keywords are mortgage and loan... how do i use this? I have NO idea where in my site to put it.

Any advice would be appreciated! :-)

[angelpure]

It all works,
http://www.angelpure.com/#-skin-care
http://www.angelpure.com/?-skin-care

It's all good.

[effisk]

Hehe, now this is getting really funny :P

Everyone is trying the thing, not too sure how it works and what the results are.

I guess for keywords such as loan or mortgage, there is too much competition and it won't make any difference.

It will probably only work for remote or very specific keywords, and the goal can be obtained fairly easily by more ethical means for such keywords...

[nimcorp]

so doing somthing like this is better?

http://rd.yahoo.com/mortgage/mn/*http://www.nimcorp.com/?nimcorp

[effisk]

so doing somthing like this is better?I honestly have no idea. It might work (although as I said earlier the keywords "mortgage" or "loan" are widely used, which make it more difficult ti get a good ranking with that trick).
The first part of the link at yahoo directs to a 404 page with PR0, but I don't think your request makes the person who clicks on that link transit on that page. So all in all, I don't think it is better. this:

http://rd.yahoo.com/bonnefous/*http://www.french.tk/?bonnefous

probably has the same results as:

http://www.french.tk/?bonnefous

[HansenConnection]

I still can't figure this out. I understand how to create the link, but I'm not sure how it increases the ranking for MY SITE.

Although I like this format better

http://rd.yahoo.com/*http://www.doitdave.net/speedtest/speedtest.htm#-speed_test

Than this one

http://www.webproworld.com/posting.php?-speed_test

and

http://www.webproworld.com/posting.php#-speed_test

[achronister]

I think everyone is missing the point of this post. Everyone wants to use this technique to move their rankings up. This isn't going to work on anything competitive. The previous examples used Yahoo and CNN as example sites. Also the terms used are rather obscure. Search "teoma rules" in quotes and you only have 3 results. "gmail account" has quite a few more, but it is CNN.

This isn't going to work for anything competitive and I doubt it would actually work with non-authoritive web sites. It is just a neat little trick so I wouldn't waste my time trying to increase rankings this way. Concentrate on something that actually does work.

[pedstersplanet]

I maybe wrong here, but how do you do this? From what I can gather is that you just submit your site to SE's with the /?your-key-word-here at the end? and maybe add the keywords to your links within your pages?

If I'm wrong, shoot me! :)

[LinkMaster]

It is just a neat little trick so I wouldn't waste my time trying to increase rankings this way. Concentrate on something that actually does work.

I agree. Don't turn this into something that it isn't. There are some key principles here if you can see them, but obviously most of you don't. Most of the replies I have read here are like "Please show me how to do this so I can get a #1 position!" Everyone wants a free ride. Sorry, but if you don't want to learn on your own it is going to cost you. There are plenty of SEO pros out there who will be glad to take your money.

[Epp0]

I made this one

<a href=http://www.google.com/#-eppo-fiets-pikkers/*http://www.fietsindepikkers.com>EppO</a>

words are very uncommen

hope it helpes a little

[pcarlow]

Great Find! Thanks for sharing the info.

Does Google see www.yourdomain.com and www.yourdomain.com/?keyword-phrase as two different URLs? My concern is how does this affect rankings for www.yourdomain.com? It looks like Google is listing www.yourdomain.com/?keyword-phrase as a seperate page, so if you started using this method you would be competting with all your exsiting links, because Google would list both page seperatley. Your thoughts?

[Epp0]

can someone please explain it sumwhat better:

I added these URLS to my index.html
http://www.yahoo.com/#-eppo-fiets-pikkers-kobus-incubus-deftones
http://www.cnn.com/#-eppo-fiets-pikkers-kobus-incubus-deftones
http://www.google.com/?-eppo-fiets-pikkers-kobus-incubus-deftones
http://rd.yahoo.com/eppo/fiets/pikkers/kobus/incubus/deftones/*http://www.fietsindepikkers.com

And thats just it?
How does that work than?

[JAugusto]

I have two 100% legal links on my site hp that obeys to this bombing! It's nice to know it helps my PR.

They link to amazon with my site on the URL and were cought by google's spider:

www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=zapfuture-21&site=amazon

ZapFuture's Amazon Associate Link (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=zapfuture-21&site=amazon)

Jose Augusto
Wish you could know the future? (http://www.zapfuture.com)
ZapFuture (http://www.zapfuture.com)

P.S: Sparsh, from Beta-Theta, please check your email and reply to my message. Thanks

[PXJ]

[quote=achronister]quote]

Most of the replies I have read here are like "Please show me how to do this so I can get a #1 position!" Everyone wants a free ride. Sorry, but if you don't want to learn on your own it is going to cost you. There are plenty of SEO pros out there who will be glad to take your money.

I disagree completely. I was reading the thread and was wondering why doesn't anyone answer these folks who are asking simple questions like "where do the links go"? ....no answer whatsoever. No one asked for a #1 position.

They are trying to learn on their own like you are asking them too. How are they supposed to learn?

It seems 50% know and the other 50 don't. But the 50 that do....don't want the 50 that don't to know how.

[escv]

[quote=achronister]quote]

Most of the replies I have read here are like "Please show me how to do this so I can get a #1 position!" Everyone wants a free ride. Sorry, but if you don't want to learn on your own it is going to cost you. There are plenty of SEO pros out there who will be glad to take your money.

I disagree completely. I was reading the thread and was wondering why doesn't anyone answer these folks who are asking simple questions like "where do the links go"? ....no answer whatsoever. No one asked for a #1 position.

They are trying to learn on their own like you are asking them too. How are they supposed to learn?

It seems 50% know and the other 50 don't. But the 50 that do....don't want the 50 that don't to know how.

I 2nd PXJ. What type of forum puts good information out there and then doesn't help the people who come for more information.

Garrett - if you're out there please take some responsibility for your post.

[peteinoz2]

as I see it

this is mostly a fun trick

that doesnt gain or boost your own site by doing this trick

of course it helps in google when you link out to a high PR site e.g cnn.com

so if you link to

www.cnn.com/?yourkeywordgoeshere

this will effect the ranking for CNN under this keyword etc

but will give your site the exact same effect as linking to

www.cnn.com

my 2 cents

hope this helps clear some things up

btw.. im in the new SEO comp under keywords

Nigritude Ultramarine

im listed 77 out of 135,000

so im pretty happy to be in the top 100 considering im a relative newbie to SEO'ing :)

Pete

[Garrett]

I've had several people write in (and there have been a couple posts) asking about how to use the new method of Google bombing to raise your rankings.

The short answer is that Google bombing your own url with this method won't do a thing. For example: www.yoursite.com/?your-keywords-stuffed-here (http://www.yoursite.com/?your-keywords-stuffed-here) most likely won't help much and I haven't seen if this technique does anything with competitive keywords.

It's worth a try though, especially if you've got a test site to fool around with (I'd suggest setting up a little affiliate site you don't mind getting banned - that way while it's ranking well from any high risk techniques you'll at least make a little money :).

WebMetro found it interesting that "Google still values keywords within URL when it ranks sites. I thought Google would put this on the bottom of the pile when it comes to SEO, but this proves that it may actually be in the middle of the pile or closer to the top."

This to me is the most interesting aspect of this particular Google Bomb - that the text in the url can have significant effect on where your pages appear.

Remember this when you're naming the files on your site - include keywords you'd like those pages to be found for.

WebMetro also found it interesting that, "Google cannot tell that cnn.com is the same as cnn.com/?keyword." What is the importance of this? What could this indicate about optimization?

Tcady thought the bomb was cool, but wondered too if it had any practical application. She suggested I "try something with a very competitive string in it and see if it ranks - like 'digital cameras.'"

And so: http://www.google.com/?digital-camera. At the very least it will be interesting to see where it appears in the listings. I'll report more on this when I have some results.

"But as silly as it may seem," Tcady concluded, "it is pretty cool to see one can make something so simple appear on google in the top 10 overnight :)"

(This will appear as an article - that's why I quote all these folks whose posts you may have already read. Thanks to those who have posted so far!)

[EcomCity]

Not sure if this will work to capture some "Larry King" searches pushing some buyers to his signature suspenders. I made a page for www.suspenders.com/larry_king.htm and one also to test for Dennis Miller www.suspenders.com/dennis_miller.htm to see if they get ranked or traffic. Added a internal Link to the larry king page with a external link to the Dennis Miller page to see if Google will pick them up.

Another test I'll try is to target "Levis" blue jeans at www.sloops.com/levis.htm which is a new site without any PR to see if it picks up a listing

[achronister]

achronister wrote:
quote]

Most of the replies I have read here are like "Please show me how to do this so I can get a #1 position!" Everyone wants a free ride. Sorry, but if you don't want to learn on your own it is going to cost you. There are plenty of SEO pros out there who will be glad to take your money.


I disagree completely. I was reading the thread and was wondering why doesn't anyone answer these folks who are asking simple questions like "where do the links go"? ....no answer whatsoever. No one asked for a #1 position.

They are trying to learn on their own like you are asking them too. How are they supposed to learn?

It seems 50% know and the other 50 don't. But the 50 that do....don't want the 50 that don't to know how.


I 2nd PXJ. What type of forum puts good information out there and then doesn't help the people who come for more information.

Garrett - if you're out there please take some responsibility for your post.


First of all I didn't say that. Pay attention to who you're quoting. Second, we're not keeping it a secret, I said it isn't going to do what they want it to so everyone would be better off doing something that works. Third, it is explained in the first post and it isn't that difficult. add a link to www.yahoo.com/?keyword-keyword - thats it.

[HansenConnection]

This all sounds pretty good. Thank you to everyone trying to explain it, but this seems to be more of a trick that will produce keyword ranking for a high traffic site.

So Here's another try

http://www.yahoo.com/?football_gazette
http://www.cnn.com/?football_gazette

[britey]

I may be wrong but here goes



1/ the link should go on your first page where the robots will find it quickly

It would be best if you could put in to a high pr site of pr5 or more


http://www.trafficlimo.com/exchange/index.html
this site is a pr5 place your links here then submit the page to the search engines this will help the robot find your link if have add robot text to your mata tags they should come back and search the page again,
This boom as i think is a quick fix for page rank
and if no one wants what you have put in as your keywords then you wont get any traffic and no sales,
so some sites it will help and some it wont.

This is just what i think and i dont mean to rude to any body I am not a expert but i must say my sites do quit well

[midnight]

as I see it

this is mostly a fun trick
Exactly. Just like the earlier widely reported cases of "Google bombing," this technique won't do much of anything for any halfway competitive search term.

In fact, in the article Garrett wrote the following:
As of 5-14-04 there are 32,300 pages for "Teoma Rules." This should be much easier to rank for than Philipp's "Gmail Account."

Yeah, the fewer pages returned the easier it is to rank using this technique or any other. But, the 32,300 number isn't what you should be looking at. As of this right now, there is ONE page for "Teoma Rules" on Google -- Garrett's article. There are over 30,000 pages with both "Teoma" and "rules" on them, but only that one page contains the phrase "Teoma rules" (that is, enclose the search term in quotes to do the exact search. Right now, that brings you Garrett's article and the nonexistent page at Yahoo that he's linked to). As we all know, having the only page in the index that contains the search term makes it pretty hard not to rank well!

Of course that will change now as blogs and forums comment on this. This is a lot like those SEO firms that guarantee "top ten rankings" for which they get to choose the keywords -- then they choose the equivalent of "Teoma rules" and can report a "number one ranking."

The point is that "Google bombing" isn't much more than a conjuror's trick. It's not an SEO technique, and those in this thread trying to figure out how to do this thinking they'll improve their rankings are wasting their time... sorry.

That said, there is an interesting element to this in how it illuminates the search engines' use of anchor text. So I'm not saying that playing with this stuff is a waste of time, but that trying to rank for real world queries is.

[TWDesignStudios]

http://www.alexa.com/ says teoma rules is one of the top 5 searches lol, just thought that was interesting.

[webscore]

Seems Google is onto this:
http://www.google.com.au/?Teoma-Rules
now results in:
Not Found
The requested URL /?Teoma-Rules.html was not found on this server.

Cheers
Lizette
Search Engine Optimisation Brisbane (http://www.webscore.com.au)

[Dave Hawley]

Guys, let's NOT confuse the number of pages returned by Google for a search as any sort of indication of how competetive a search term is. It is FAR more complex that that.

1) The "number 1-10 of x results" is often off by more than 30%

2) The "number 1-10 of x results" ONLY indicates how many pages fit that criteria NOT how competetive the keyword/phrase is. There is NO direct correlation.

For example, do a search for "Click Here" etc and the number of pages returned is VERY disproportionate to how competetive this term is. Now do a search for "Harley Davidson" and, according to Google, 14 Million less results. It wouldn't take Einstein to work out which is more "competetive"!

As for the new Google bomb. Considering the fact it will very likey do nothing for 99.9% of Webmatsers is it worth the possible risk of getting banned from Google?

[Mel]

Dave is exactly right when he says that the number of pages returned is not an accurate indicator of how competitive a phrase is, but let me expand that a bit if I may.

If you are targeting a top ten position at Google the only competition you have for those slots are the existing top ten pages, those are the ones you have to beat, not the 14 million ranking after that.

There can be some very competitive pages for search terms with only 100 results returned, as there can be for search terms with millions of pages returned, but you only have to beat some of the top ten pages to get a top ten ranking in either case.


My advice - don't worry about how many pages are returned (except as a very very rough estimate) but look for the answers in the top ten pages where all your competition for top rankings is located.

[Dave Hawley]

Mel, this is strange! We normally dissagree on most things, but today, you have agreed with me and I have agreed with you (in another thread). I hope there is not a trend starting :o)

[Mel]

Yep definitely got to be careful here, next thing you know I could be standing you a beer or something.

[scisoft]

And btw, there is also that <index,nofollow> trick on the main and backward links on non-indexed Web pages forcing Google to give you a higher PR on your root directory, as result to second-level pages' PR.
Can somebody explain please?

Also, using the "mypage#keyword" would be usefull in cases when you cannnot put the keyword into the url direcly. But will not be the "mypage#keyword" page considered as a different page from "mypage" with all the negative consequences?

[philipp]

As this topic was in reaction to my post at Google Blogoscoped, I'd like to clarify I did not intend it, nor do I believe it will work, as SEO technique for your own site. I chose CNN.com because it already was a high-ranked site.

However my newest experiment with Google Grafitti reveals keywords in URLs do matter (http://blog.outer-court.com/archive/2004_05_21_index.html#108512767712506604) more ways than the one which is often mentioned.

[Karbon]

Interesting ideas here guys. I'm just getting into SEO and I believe I will try some of this!

Good to know that a fellow Kentuckian is behind it :-)

[asianwebmaster101]

I think everyone is missing the point of this post. Everyone wants to use this technique to move their rankings up. This isn't going to work on anything competitive. The previous examples used Yahoo and CNN as example sites. Also the terms used are rather obscure. Search "teoma rules" in quotes and you only have 3 results. "gmail account" has quite a few more, but it is CNN.

This isn't going to work for anything competitive and I doubt it would actually work with non-authoritive web sites. It is just a neat little trick so I wouldn't waste my time trying to increase rankings this way. Concentrate on something that actually does work.

I totally agree with you on this one. There is nothing for free in this world. To do something unethical is to knock someone out of the game.

[chrisblack]

The short answer is that Google bombing your own url with this method won't do a thing. For example: www.yoursite.com/?your-keywords-stuffed-here most likely won't help much and I haven't seen if this technique does anything with competitive keywords.

The man is right - googlebombing my own url hasn't made on bit of difference to my google ranking - still in top 20 for bantry and nowhere to be seen for youth work.

Chris

[WhatUpDogg]

if you've got a test site to fool around with (I'd suggest setting up a little affiliate site you don't mind getting banned

What about risk to the site that the link is placed on? As there is absolutely no legit purpose in linking out in this manner, and the only possible purpose is to manipulate SE's, well, then, Google could very well, in GOOD CONSCIENCE, simply ban any site that links out in this manner.

[Peter (IMC)]

Did anyone notice this:

Google Cache of www.cnn.com/?-gmail-account (http://216.239.51.104/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=cache:http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F%3F-gmail-account)

Google Cache of www.cnn.com (http://216.239.51.104/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=cache:http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com)

2 URL's with the same content ----->>>> Duplicate Pages.

CNN could sue you for linking to them like that,. (luckily CNN does not depend on getting found in Google,.. :) )

So if you try to apply this on your own site just keep in mind that you could be creating duplicate pages in Google's index.

Regards,

Peter

[doodyDOTA]

If I got it right...

when a google robot findes this link: www.orkfia.net/?game the site www.orkfia.net will step up in ranks for the keyword 'game'
Am I correct?

[Peter (IMC)]

If I got it right...

when a google robot findes this link: www.orkfia.net/?game the site www.orkfia.net will step up in ranks for the keyword 'game' and my fansite www.sztuka64.1go.dk/?orkfia will step up in ranks for the keyword 'orkfia'

Am I correct?

No!

What will step up in ranks is www.orkfia.net/?game not www.orkfia.net

Worse even... if you get enough links that point at www.orkfia.net/?game Google might think there are 2 pages with the same content.

Regards,

Peter

[clueless]

This may be pure semantics, but I'd like to make sure I understand. This process CANNOT "step you up in rank", right? It takes a site that is already very popular and attaches it to keywords that it normally wouldn't be associated with.

Doing something like "www.mydomain.com/?-keyword" accomplishes nothing because the keyword is in all probability already on your site, and if not you can put it there.

It's good for pranks and little else. And, your target must already be a popular site. Because if you tried www.your_kid_brother_domain.com/?-f**king-p**sy to torment your kid brother it wouldn't work because there will still be 13,567 porn sites ranked higher. Is this correct?

[Peter (IMC)]

No that is not correct.

Google's algorithms have over 100 factors and a part of those are about links (not just pagerank, but also things like anchor text, page topic, etc.)

Google Bombing works because it takes the linking factors to an unnatural extreme.

Going to extremes is not possible with all ranking factors, but it is with the linking factors.

So even the worsed webpages can get high rankings if you can manage to get an extreme amount of backlinks to it. Obviously this only works with hyped things like the "miserable failure" and "raar kapsel" (weird hair cut refering to the dutch priminister :D)

Regards,

Peter

[stuar42mac]

I added the link below to my website:

www.marry-an-ugly-millionaire-online-dating-agency.com?-Paris-Hilton

However, Paris Hilton did not visit! As usual I attracted just the usual load of ugly geeks!

What did I do wrong?

[Mel]

No that is not correct.

Google's algorithms have over 100 factors and a part of those are about links (not just pagerank, but also things like anchor text, page topic, etc.)

Google Bombing works because it takes the linking factors to an unnatural extreme.

Going to extremes is not possible with all ranking factors, but it is with the linking factors.

So even the worsed webpages can get high rankings if you can manage to get an extreme amount of backlinks to it. Obviously this only works with hyped things like the "miserable failure" and "raar kapsel" (weird hair cut refering to the dutch priminister :D)

Regards,

Peter

This particiular bit on nonsense (really should not have been called Google Bombing IMO) is not the same as regular google bombing, but instead adds a Google listing and ranking for phrases which are not on the target site, but it does it in a single shot. What seems to be interesting is that you can add this to anyones site.

IMO as Doody said this will not help your Google ranking, and at any rate it will do nothing that you can't do by adding words to your page.

[Peter (IMC)]

This particiular bit on nonsense
Care to explain what you mean?

[Mel]

Sure Peter this strange anomoly at Googl(the ability to get Google to index a phantom keyword on a site) has no practical applications that I can see, and so I wonder what all the fuss is about.

[Peter (IMC)]

Thanks for clarifying that Mel,

It amazes me how many people don't like Google just because they are the most popular search engine. Then they come up with "proof" like Google Bombing to show they´re a bad search engine.

Funny thing is that all this proof is a lot of free advertising for Google as these things end up in the newspaper.

Regards,

Peter

[effisk]

It amazes me how many people don't like Google just because they are the most popular search engine.I personnaly think google is a fantastic tool and the best search engine around. It has been my starting page for years.
But I also think we should keep a eye on them, because of their growing infuence and power; we have to make sure they aren't twisting the results of our searches for specific keywords (that's only one example among others). I am not sure what to think about the DeckofBush restriction (http://www.deckofbush.com/google.html), it isn't an isolated case.

[maddhacker24]

Would something like this where there is a bunch of keywords in the url?

http://www.killsometime.com/Jokes/Joke.asp?JokeID=47#Jokes

[WebMetro]

If you act fast and goto www.alexa.com, look on the left side under "WEB-O-METER"

You'll see that "teoma rules" made it on the top searches list of Alexa ratings. I guess a few webmasters here must be using Alexa ToolBar... who would of thought ;+)

[jhansen]

I think the google bomb subject has been covered! Now, do we want to shift to plain old-fashioned SEO? Or should we either shift to another topic - or if nesessary create a new topic - for general SEO discussion?

One fellow said the google bomb only helps OTHER peoples sites. Hence no practical interest to most of us.

Another fellow it only helps NON-COMPETITIVE search terms. I disagree: given the premise that "competitiveness" is determined by the top ten listings, then "jew" (as in "jewwatch" as in the incident that started this whole thing) is at least moderately competitive.

I work with small companies specializing in very small markets. I saw one client go after about 100 search terms and get top ten listings in 90% of them (several #1). The competition was generally pretty modest by our standards, but it was still important to HIM, because his site is how HE makes his living.

Now what I'd love to learn is how to get inbound links discovered FASTER by google, in order to boost google page rank faster. (One fellow above suggests front page link to the inbound link.) I ask becuase even after confirmation of an inbound link from a site ranked 4+ by google, it seems to take forever before that link appears on the google toolbar under incoming links (so I suspect the "rank promotion" effect is ALSO slow). ANY IDEAS FELLOWS???

On the other hand, when I add a new page within a site linked from the front page, google normally picks it up in just a few days. That has helped me optimize pages WITHIN a site for specific search terms swiftly.

[effisk]

Hi

I did a test with this link: http://effisk.chez.tiscali.fr/?bonnefous

and my page is now 3rd in google ranking (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=bonnefous) for "Bonnefous".

It is interesting to see that it comes up 3rd even when bonnefous does not appear on the page (it appears in the meta keywords and author, which is neglectible IMO), and the page is only PR0.

Interesting as well the fact that the first of the pages on the same domain name (effisk.chez.tiscali.fr) to come up for that keyword is well below (3rd page (http://216.239.41.104/search?q=bonnefous&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&start=20&sa=N)of Google's results) and does show the word Bonnefous in both the title bar and the text.

And http://www.french.tk shows up in 5th position, is PR3, does have Bonnefous in the title and meta description, but redirects straight to effisk.chez.tiscali.fr.

Too many parameters to draw conclusions, but interesting.

[Hurga]

Hi

I did a test with this link: http://effisk.chez.tiscali.fr/?bonnefous

and my page is now 3rd in google ranking (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=bonnefous) for "Bonnefous".

It is interesting to see that it comes up 3rd even when bonnefous does not appear on the page (it appears in the meta keywords and author, which is neglectible IMO), and the page is only PR0.

Interesting as well the fact that the first of the pages on the same domain name (effisk.chez.tiscali.fr) to come up for that keyword is well below (3rd page (http://216.239.41.104/search?q=bonnefous&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&start=20&sa=N)of Google's results) and does show the word Bonnefous in both the title bar and the text.

And http://www.french.tk shows up in 5th position, is PR3, does have Bonnefous in the title and meta description, but redirects straight to effisk.chez.tiscali.fr.

Too many parameters to draw conclusions, but interesting.

Dunno, the keywords I'm going for are either too crowded for this to work, or already so targeted that I'm already ranking.

Nevertheless, it's pretty interesting.

[stuar42mac]

I did a test on www.weird-websites.com with the link: www.yahoo.com?jokes

Yesterday I plunged from about 1000 visitors per day to around 250.

For Keywords, such as weird poems, which I was previously ranked number 1, I am now out of the top 200.

Is this just coincidence or are Google penalising bombers??

[effisk]

I did a test on www.weird-websites.com with the link: www.yahoo.com?jokesYou put that link to yahoo our your website? That's a weird idea. I would compare it to digging your own grave (We don't know what Google is going to do about websites using this technique to cheat).
Is this just coincidenceSuch a dramatic change must have a reason. Apart from that yahoo link, did you make any other change to your website? did other websites stop linking to yours?

[stuar42mac]

At the same time I added a pop-under (now removed). Not sure if this would affect Google listing. I am not aware of any links from other sites being removed.

[effisk]

At the same time I added a pop-under (now removed). Not sure if this would affect Google listing.I don't think it would. Well then the only reason I see is that yahoo link. I find the sentence a bit harsh.

[sixstring]

I tried it with several pages and got nothing looks like a joke

www.cnn.com/?dialup
www.msn.com/?dialup
www.movies.com/?dialup
www.wheather.com/?dialup
www.msnbc.com/?dialup
www.sbc.com/?dialup
www.altavista.com/?dialup
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=dialup
http://www.pulver.com/fwd/?#dialup

[effisk]

I'm now 2nd and 3rd on google (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=bonnefous)
with that test:
http://effisk.chez.tiscali.fr/?bonnefous

But interestingly, I also tried this one:
http://effisk.chez.tiscali.fr/_camion.php?modoborah in my signature, which gives absolutely nothing with google (my sig. was the only link to this page on the internet, and mobodorah gives no results with google (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=mobodorah)).


Huhu, I just realized that the anchor text is mobodorah and the url is modoborah. :P
So now google gives these results:
for modorabah (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=mobodorah)
and for modoborah (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&q=modoborah)

[webreporter]

How do I get the "?" to be part of the file name? Am I even trying to do that? Should the URL appear as "http://www.mydomain.com?keywords-here" ? And do I need a file uploaded to the server with that name? Also, do I need to submit the page once it has been created?

[effisk]

How do I get the "?" to be part of the file name? Am I even trying to do that? Should the URL appear as "http://www.mydomain.com?keywords-here" ? And do I need a file uploaded to the server with that name? Also, do I need to submit the page once it has been created?None of the above. The part of the URL: ?keywords is a way to pass some parameters along, from one page to another. You don't need to change anything to your website. You just need to link to a page of your site (from a forum for instance), and add the ?keywords string at the end of the URL.

example:

this is your page's URL:
http://www.yourwebsite.com/yourpage.php

this is one possibility for a link to your page:
http://www.yourwebsite.com/yourpage.php?keywords

The string of parameters will be passed along but they'll have no effect on the way your page is displayed because it won't be recognised as a valid parameter.

[webreporter]

So just by posting it here, like http://www.alabamacountryhomes.com/?Birmingham-Alabama-Homes will provide results? Interesting. Lets see how it goes. Merci! Thanks for the help!

[webreporter]

Well, so much for the 24 hour turn around. Maybe Google caught on and isn't allowing it to happen any more.

[effisk]

Well, so much for the 24 hour turn around. Maybe Google caught on and isn't allowing it to happen any more.The keywords you're using are already pretty crowded. The good thing is that the pages that show up in google's results don't have high PR. Wait a bit more and let's try this:
http://www.alabamacountryhomes.com/?Birmingham_Alabama_Homes

[Mac 5]

With a little help I think CNN could win the ipod in the SEO contest.
http://www.cnn.com/?nigritudeultramarine

[ryan4jeep]

Tricks get found out and then you get penalized. Its good to make sure whatever you are doing is ethical and provides real relavent content. I would hate to get banned or PR 0 for using unethical techniques. Its just not worth screwing up and having to start over with a totally new site. I will keep watching about this but our sites are doing well without it. Just keep getting link partners and increasing the articles or content pages of your website. Cross link your pages and practice Safe optimization that ensures long term growth.

[effisk]

my link http://effisk.chez.tiscali.fr/?bonnefous
isn't ranked anymore with Google (at least not in the 20 first results for bonnefous - it used to be 3rd)
but interestingly http://effisk.chez.tiscali.fr comes up... 2nd! for the same keyword.

Bewildering ;)

And my test with modoborah is still PR0.

[Dave Hawley]

It amazes me that so many would spend so much time on Google gimmicks, tricks etc. Why not spend the time on real SEO? Basically real links and real content.

[kikkertm]

I think (Dave) that the discussion can be quite usefull and playing with these things could make us better understand the algo's and therefore any SEO techniques.

Other (related) question though. Does anyone know how google would handle links like:


http://username:password@www.domain.com

This is within http protocol standards (it's the format for basic http authentication). Just wondering if you could apply the technique mentioned in a similar way:


http://keyword1:keyword2@www.highPR.com

Any Thoughts ?

Or pushing the idea even further, how would the spider handle:


http://www.yoursite.com@www.highPR.com ?

Please note, due to a fixed security vulnerability (which I found a few years ago - therefore the interest in using this technique), the above link doesn't work in IE. It does however work fine in Firefox. I'm trying to find out how the spider handles it. Do I make any sense ?

PS: This is purely a theoretical mindwarp, just to understand stuff - NOT to cheat stuff !

[Dave Hawley]

I think (Dave) that the discussion can be quite usefull and playing with these things could make us better understand the algo's and therefore any SEO techniques.

Agree, but that is where the risk lies. Google are always on the ball and always on the look-out for those that blatently attempt to manipulate the SERP's.

So while it could help understand Googles algo, it could also get you banned. I cannot see the benefit outweighing the risk.

[kikkertm]

Dave - You are making a good point (as usual). I guess I'm just inquisitive and always like to know how things work - knowledge is power and so on..

Isn't SEO always about 'manipulating' the SERP's anyway ? In the end, the more knowledable will end up higher in the rankings like the more knowledgable will end up with higher paying jobs etc.. It doesn't mean 'manipulation' is a bad thing and done out of malice. The whole SEO world exists because of competetiveness on the internet which in the end could provide better and lower priced services and products for surfers. It's one thing to rank high, but the more important thing is to offer something your customers like so they come back for more ! So quite a good thing I guess ?

Anyways - that's another discussion. Any thoughts on my (highly) theoretical suggestion ?

[Dave Hawley]

Isn't SEO always about 'manipulating' the SERP's anyway ?

IMO no. SEO is about optimizing site pages by making them more relavent to what they are about. Manipulating the SERP's is about tricking Google into thinking your site pages are more relavent when nothing has been done to make them so. Also, most standard SEO is within Google's guidelines, manipulating the SERP's is way outside.

Anyway, I felt it was worth a mention. If people do this sort of think knowing the risks they can only blame themselves should it back-fire. I for one wouldnever risk my business is this way.

[effisk]

It amazes me that so many would spend so much time on Google gimmicks, tricks etc. Why not spend the time on real SEO? Basically real links and real content.True. But I can't help it, it's fun ;)


Anyway, I felt it was worth a mention. If people do this sort of think knowing the risks they can only blame themselves should it back-fire. I for one wouldnever risk my business is this way.I'm trying it on a personal website, and I don't care much about its ranking.

regards

[sem-seo-pro]

Hi everyone

Not only does google rank for keywords in urls. such as

http://www.sem-seo-pros.com

but it also does for your page title too.

What could be more relevant than your page name the same as the first keyword you choose to focus on.

These are some of mine.

http://www.sem-seo-pros.com/search-optimization.htm

http://www.sem-seo-pros.com/search-ranking-results.htm

http://www.sem-seo-pros.com/ranking-relevancy.htm

and so on.

Now I grant you I only have a PR of 2. I also never submitted my site to any search engine. So things look good as the sites less than two months old.


Work work work......

Clint

[mdugas]

So your saying that something like:

http://www.lighter4life.com/default.aspx#hypnotic-weight-loss

is all I need?

[T2DMan]

A reason why adding tags to Google.com and CNN.com have worked so well is that both come up/have come up with the error message that includes that phrase.

Therefore that particular page has had the multiple whammy of a link, link with keyword, high PR CNN/Google site, and text on page.

Google/CNN etc are changing some of their pages so that the text you search for is not shown on the page. I have seen some searches with a 301 permanent redirect to the main CNN/Google page, which although less user friendly, helps stop the issue.

Google treats the # as being correctly the same as the page, rather than being like the ? which gives a different page. When using the # on CNN/Google, you don't get the text actually shown on the page, you are getting mainly text link value (if the text link shows the #blabla rather than being a url behind the textlink.

Google could pages as the sum of their links, not the intrinsic value of the root domain. But the "authority" status of sites could be seen as a very important part of the algorithm that it didn't want to mess up.

This whole thread is more about people finding out:
- the value of a high PR authority site (ie Google/CNN) and that Google does not just take links into account etc, but the value of the root url.
- the value of text links and the actual words used within them (the smaller number of words the better)
- the value of the search phrase apearing in the url

Threads like this are very good for finding out the extreme edges of how the algos work. How one link with one unique piece of text can have a page ranked for that text.

I agree with sem-seo-pro where he point out that for competitive terms you must get ALL these things right to be able to rank high.

[effisk]

Now I grant you I only have a PR of 2. I also never submitted my site to any search engine. So things look good as the sites less than two months old.
Work work work......
Clint
from the source of your pages:

<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="http://www.sem-seo-pros.com">
??? Huurk! where's the CSS file if there's any? ;)

[Glade]

My site is http://www.boracaybeach.ph are you saying create a duplicate index page and save it as www.boracaybeach.ph/?-boracay.htm or merely make a link title on someone else’s site www.boracaybeach.ph/?-boracay linking to http://www.boracaybeach.ph (Link exchange with some site)making http://www.boracaybeach.ph/?-boracay as your title in your link exchange.

I do not see what is so special about this? If I put a link on someone else’s site that is say a 5pr and above my link will show up under that persons page thus being able to get to my site. I would think Google would ban or degrade sites that duplicate or make doorway pages.

If a person uses FrontPage 2004 you can not even use /#? When saving pages.

Can someone breakdown this Google Bomb Theory

http://www.boracaybeach.ph

[gaudi]

gona try this www.patrickegan.org/?antonio gaudi,
will let you know

[effisk]

Glade,

you don't have to change anything to your website with this method. It's about posting a link TO your website.

What you are adding to the URL are parameters. These parameters are passed along, and are used to send to a specific part of a page, a specific page, etc.

example:

the following example will send you to the part of the page you have specified by using the anchor <a name="here">title</a>
www.yourwebsite.com/index.html#here
tutorial here (http://www.htmlcodetutorial.com/linking/_A_NAME.html)

This is true for HTML, but also with other languages sur as PHP or ASPX where the parameters are displayed after a question mark in the address bar.
example:
www.yourwebsite.com/index.php?id=here
(which is the same as www.yourwebsite.com/?id=here because you're redirected to the index.php page by default in most of the cases).

So basically, Google seems to take into account these parameters when following the link, even if the parameters have no real meaning: when they are not recognised as valid parameters by the server which hosts www.yourwebsite.com. In the first example, this would mean there is no anchor named "here" in the index.html page.


I noticed a couple of days ago that the company I work for have been using this method for quite a while in conjunction with hidden pages packed with keywords and links, and if it doesn't improve the ranking, it doesn't seem to make any harm...

[fbiganski]

Can I go directly to www.google.com and type in their search box: http://www.buyermagnet.com/#websites-for-realtors

Will that bomb google just the same as a link from another Web site and if not, why?

Also, in order for it to work, does one have to repeat the search (or click on a link) multiple times in order for google to index the site?

Thanks,
Frank

[ReviewGolf.com]

Indeed, it appears that if you really discovered a loophole in Google's system the only way to benefit from it is to keep using it quetly and not trampet on all BBs.

By the way if you go to Yahoo.com and just search for Teoma-Rules this discussion thread appears as the first result... For a thread that's a month old it's pretty good, isn't it?

[nickleus]

Sovidiu, can you explain this <index,nofollow> trick you refer too? Do you mean that by setting <index,nofollow> on the front page that it will get a higher PR because the PR in the links to level 2 pages gets shoved back onto the root page because it can't be transfered to the other pages? That would seem like a huge flaw in Google if that were the case? Please explain.

Also, what do you mean by the /# Google force-up?


Because there is another trick to this procedure involving a /# Google force-up. This discovery is really a great advantage. Thanks for the tip. And btw, there is also that <index,nofollow> trick on the main and backward links on non-indexed Web pages forcing Google to give you a higher PR on your root directory, as result to second-level pages' PR.

[Bobkeithjr]

Google is not the almighty. Would like to try that on www.inkbob.com . This website www.inkbob.com has been in the supplimental for EVER.

[tcampione]

Here’s what is actually happening, and why I believe Google attaches some relevance.

The symbol ‘?’ in a url specifies the end of the url itself. Anything after a ‘?’ is not part of a page location. Rather, terms after the ‘?’ are for use by the receiving page and have a purpose.

That purpose could be a string of search terms (e.g. baseball + MVP + 2001) and would be formatted for a specific receiving page that is scripted to read this data, which is called a ‘request string’.

So this link: http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=baseball+MVP+2001 will submit a search to Yahoo and because Yahoo pages will read the contents of the variable ‘p’ (in this case the words: baseball, MVP, and 2001) the Yahoo page will conduct the search based on these strings (words) and return the appropriate results.

Another use for terms after the ‘?’ would be to pass any desired data to another page. That data might be a username that is stored in a cookie, or data that the user just entered in a form. The receiving page would be programmed to read the data in the query-string, and do something with it.

I just created a test page on one of my sites as an example. Try this link: http://www.audience-response-rentals.com/temp/name-test.asp?name=Jack . ‘Jack’ is passed to the page which then displays it.

If you copy the link, paste it in IE’s address bar, change Jack to your name and click ‘go’ the receiving page will display your name.

So, that is what text after the ‘?” is used for in the real world, passing data which could be search terms.

As for the ‘#’ it specifies a bookmark name on the receiving page. When it is in a url (e.g. www.somewebsite.com/somepage.htm#travel) the browser goes to the page, looks for an HTML marker with the name ‘travel’ and automatically scrolls down the page to that point.

Again, this is the true purpose of the ‘#’.


Now, why should these make any difference to Google. My assumption is that it is the same reason that anchor text in a link is of value. . . it describes the content on the linked page. . . . a sort of road sign.

If the link from another site to yours is: http://www.yoursite.com?x=baseball that means that some website is pointing to your site, and submitting a search term, or is passing data, about baseball. So, your site is likely to have something to do with baseball.

If the link from another site to yours is: http://www.yoursite.com/index.htm#baseball that means that a website is pointing to a bookmark your site called baseball, and so your site is likely to have something to do with baseball.

My conclusion is that these methods would be redundant if the link to your site already uses your keyword(s) as anchor text. If the link to your site does not use keywords as anchor text, it could be of some valuable. But, if you are requesting links from relevant sites, the ‘road signs’ (content identifiers) for Google will already be clear.

Therefore, it seems that these 'techniques' would have the greatest impact on links from irrelevant sites, which I would avoid anyway.

/*tom*/

[Webmaster-DSP]

Staying out of hot water with Google
seems like a good idea so how about an intermediate site so it gets dumped on not the site your trying to move up? I put a legitimate link to a Google search for the site I want to send the traffic to and boost ranking to. This is a java accident I had once http://www.adaires.com Watch out it's rated R. I'll see if it works. Maybe I'll resubmit it to Google.

[SEOptimism]

This "new" so-called "#Google-Bombing" technique is simply a routine SEO strategy that has been used for years by the pros. When we optimize a site for a client, we include keywords wherever possible within the visible page text. The top priority is ALWAYS page text and title tags. From there on, ALL uses are only incremental in value and don't dramatically affect ranking for targeted keyword phrases.

I demonstrate the ease of ranking for rare terms on a page where I discuss the foolishness of SEO guarantees by including the phrase, "screeching camels" one time on the page in visible text. There are no keyword or description metatags on that page, yet it ranks number one at Google when you search for "Screeching Camels". That is not Google bombing. A one-time use of a keyword phrase on a page got this number one ranking for that phrase simply because it is an absurdly rare phrase.

Use of irrelevant and misleading keyword phrase stuffing in keyword metatags, comment tags (. period used to allow display without embedding links) <.!-- keyword stuffing --> and ridiculous "invisible text" (using text the same color as the background) got abusive and so the search engines began to penalize those who did those things. They will always attempt to ban the obsessive cheaters and keyword stuffing liars.

The ? and # technique has always been used legitimately for ?tracking-referrers, calling ?search-terms and for #jump-links to take you to a named anchor within a page.

Sometimes when I link OUT to a site, I add the ?WebSite101 to the tail end of the URL only to let them know where the visitor came from (referrer) when they view their logs or use a traffic analysis or tracking service.

SEO's have always used # and ? to advantage in an incremental fashion to optimize client sites. The jump links to named anchors is routinely used by SEO's by placing keywords in the #named-anchor.

This works particularly well on long FAQ pages and on glossary of terms pages. Instead of doing what most do and using <.a href="#FAQ1">Keyword Phrase[./a] we use <.a href="#keyword-phrase">Keyword-Phrase<./a>. Of course you do the same at the named anchor - <.a name="keyword-phrase"><./a> to give the link a destination. Again, just an incremental tidbit to increase the use of the keyword phrase by a slight margin THROUGHOUT the site in that same incremental fashion, without being excessive.

The same is done with image filenames, second level directory names, page filenames, and embedding links in keyword phrases <.a href="keyword-phrase.html"> Keyword Phrase<./a> rather than <.a href="wordfrag2.htm"> Click Here<./a>

Every once in a while someone discovers these old techniques and attempts to abuse them a la Google Bombing and they get "popular", start getting abused obscenely by overly agressive folks that risk being banned in order to gain short term advantage for their own site. This leads the search engines to downgrade or penalize those who abuse the techniques.

Wholistic SEO is using many techniques moderately for incremental gains. When you get obsessive about any one technique it leads to trouble. I doubt this "new" technique will go so far because it is a web standard to use # and ? in URL's for legitimate purposes.

[wslover]

I have a dating site. So, when I have other people linking to my site, I would get higher rankings with google for the search term dating if I have them link to http://www.rateaparent.com?=dating or would that give them higher rankings for the word dating?

What I am asking is, the page that displays the link or the the page the link points to: Which one gets the benefit from this keyword insertion?

[elliswood]

Hi guys,

I realise that this topic has been going on for a while but it does interest me greatly. I have a site at http://gifts4u.bounceme.net/?cool-gifts which doesn't get much buying traffic and doesn't seem to get listed despite me submitting it to search engines. Is this the way to go?

[onthink]

interesting,does it work

[ash]

If this is working for some people, that's great, but it is not a formula for ranking success. We have had hundreds of links that were keyword-tagged for the sake of tracking and there is no evidence for us that these tags helped some terms to rank #1 and many to be >#100.

[amabaie]

I have an even better idea. What if I just left off the # and ? . What if I even just left off the &*^$%@! and all the other cuss words and had a normal link like this:

Get better SEO advice here! (http://www.thehappyguy.com/SEO.html)

Hmm. Naw, that would be too simple.

[Dashtech]

i have tried http://www.mileagecorrection.net/?mileage-correction and have also tried http://www.mileagecorrection.net/?mileage correction

its been a week and no change, am i doing something wrong guys??????????

[WebJim]

I just came to this board today and have spent a "good chunk" of time going through this thread on Google Bombing. To all of you who are giving your "two cents worth," thank you. For what it's worth, I'm going to try it out on one of my "safe" sites (one that I won't mind getting banned) using the link, http://www.thebasketcorner.com/?gift_baskets. If that doesn't look right, or if I've misunderstood something, please let me know as I'm putting it out there today -- (putting it on the site with my keywords in the url, www.theGIFTBASKETcorner.com (http://www.thegiftbasketcorner.com/?gift_baskets)) -- we'll see if this works!

Thanks, again, for all the ideas and observations.[/b][/url]

[ccristo]

I've never heard of this but I am pretty new to SEO.

Let me get this straight. Sites that link to mine like this:
Halloween Costumes (http://www.costume-party-shop.com#halloween-costumes)

or this:
Halloween Costumes (http://www.costume-party-shop.com?=halloween-costumes)

will be better than links like this:
Halloween Costumes (http://www.costume-party-shop.com)

OK. I'm game. I'll give it a try. Thanks.
Charlie

[cegri]

OK, I'll give this a try myself and tell you how it works:
http://EstudioDeLovecraft.net/#Cthulhu

[wslover]

What would work best

http://www.rateaparent.com/single_parents.html

or

http://www.rateaparent.com?=single-parents

or

http://www.rateaparent.com/index.php#single-parents

[uioreanu]

Here is an explanation of another search engine bombing method: Faked Referrals (http://www.php9.com/index.php?p=15).

I think the usage of unethical methods should be discouraged. The whole point of SEO should be to encourage natural growth, and not take advantage of temporary search engine bugs

[daemon61]

Hello everyone, this would make my very first post on webpro although im lurking for quite some time.

Ive read this whole thread, but i still dont get how thing like this can help? Maybe it would help with competitive keywords if you put the links like www.yacht-base.com/?-yacht-charter on many different websites which google considers important and counts them into your number of pages that links to your sites?

And another thing interests me, how long does it takes to have some changes, with PR or search position? Googlebot now spiders my site every day, but even after four months of active SEO, PR stayed unchanged (4).

[KyuZo]

Does this actually have a significant effect over regular anchored links?

Kyuzo Creations (http://www.kyuzo.co.uk/)


Kyuzo Creations (http://www.kyuzo.co.uk/#kyuzo-creations)
[/url]

[fryman]

I wonder if combining this with the use of anchor text would make a difference, for example, instead of linking like this

http://www.tunavidad.com/?navidad

You use anchor text like this

Navidad (http://www.tunavidad.com/?navidad)

[webinv]

It seems that you may use this technique on any link from your site(s). Use it for any external links that have a high page rank. I'm not positive on that note, but I do know:

Use prsearch.net to find site's pagerank easily.

[ace1mc]

I like I could not figure out how to do it at first. Then I tried to put my web site www.4internetautosales.com
All I did was ad the last part/?vehicles-for-sale-in like this www.4internetautosales.com/?vehicles-for-sale-in and it worked it pulled up my home page.
That is what this will do is pull up your home page.
Now I will see what it does for my site. Which I have some specific keywords to use. That have millions of web pages to them.

I will see where it gets this page to know.

thanks for the tip.
I think it can work wonders we will see.

Sincerely
Allen McCormick
CEO
4IAUTOS CORPORATION
www.4iautos.com
www.4internetautosales.com
ace1mc@4iautos.com

[allfreechips]

Interesting, so you can actually double the keywords with this

no deposit poker (http://www.allfreechips.com/#no deposit poker)

giving a text link, with a link in the links as well.

hmm
no deposit poker (http://www.allfreechips.com/poker.htm/#no deposit poker)
no deposit casino (http://www.allfreechips.com/#no deposit casino)

[thedark]

people, you seem miss the subject:
you acheive nothing with all these links
what this bombing technique can is improve position of popular site (i mean pr 8+) on not widely used phrases it is not optimized for.

my opinion on using this technique:
sure links with relevant anchor text and search phrases like http://www.somesite.com/#some_phrase might do better to your site then simple classic link with key phrase in anchor - i doubt it though. this is quite safe - google will not hold you responcible for things not on your site. and this works or now.

so placing one such link - nothing happens. run a link campaign with such links - might work out.

[cbp]

This topic is old, has run its course and is going nowhere. Sorry, all - its time to lock it.