View Full Version : Google places taking up to 8 spots
nickoran
05-06-2011, 04:44 AM
In the last couple of months some of our clients are noticing that for some of their targetted keywords they are slipping onto the second page, when we perform the searches we notice that Google places is taking up 8 spots on some of the searches leaving only 2 organic listings on the first page! ( I will confess I have seen an influx in places listings before and it didnt last very long, the search results slowly returned to how they used to be before )
So any suggestions or pointers to optimising for the places listings please?
But also, has anyone else had this problem? any general suggestions?
morestar
05-06-2011, 09:47 AM
Hey Nick, I'm also finding a problem with providing accurate rankings to clients through the use of software due to these changes - WEBCEO (which is what I use for rank checking) doesn't recognize Places listings of which you're right, they do take up most of the page for local business searches a lot.
For a personal site of mine, I've somehow managed to beat the Places listings PLUS have the places listing show up below the (organic) result. I'm sure there's a school of people who believe you can optimize a Places account, but that's not what I did. I actually tried to be as simple as possible but made sure my 'Specialty' was 'SEO'.
I've seen people ask within WebProWorld ways of optimizing for Places but haven't seen any real answers from the experts yet...maybe today Nickoran...
... I've somehow managed to beat the Places listings PLUS have the places listing show up below the (organic) result...
I would sure like to know a tad bit more about this one morestar.
( I will confess I have seen an influx in places listings before and it didnt last very long, the search results slowly returned to how they used to be before )?
In my experience, I have not yet seen the result return to what they used to be. Places takes anywhere from 4-8 results for my main keyword and has done so since Google implemented this addition. With Places, Images and News, it doesn't leave much for organic listings and its simply ridiculous to have a Place listing as well as an organic listing on the same page (sometimes one after the other eg positions 4 for Place and 5 for Organic). I don't want to "trick" Places as I stay well and clear from "blackhat" but I cannot understand how its possible to compete in a major city when I work from a small country town (where my studio is).
I understand how Places is usefull for some businesses, a car mechanic for example, but not for businesses that have no borders (stationery in my case, we ship anywhere).
Would love to hear from the Pro's in here
morestar
05-06-2011, 04:20 PM
I would sure like to know a tad bit more about this one morestar.
Search "seo in burlington on" for the listing above the Places results and "seo in burlington" for just the regular results.
For the first one you should see that my (terrible shoemaker site) is above the Places listings and occupies a places listing.
I was coming to get you in Toronto but lost a lot of time...maybe after the summer ;)
You thought I was fibbing??
morestar
05-06-2011, 04:26 PM
In my experience, I have not yet seen the result return to what they used to be. Places takes anywhere from 4-8 results for my main keyword and has done so since Google implemented this addition. With Places, Images and News, it doesn't leave much for organic listings and its simply ridiculous to have a Place listing as well as an organic listing on the same page (sometimes one after the other eg positions 4 for Place and 5 for Organic). I don't want to "trick" Places as I stay well and clear from "blackhat" but I cannot understand how its possible to compete in a major city when I work from a small country town (where my studio is).
I understand how Places is usefull for some businesses, a car mechanic for example, but not for businesses that have no borders (stationery in my case, we ship anywhere).
Would love to hear from the Pro's in here
I think for local search Google's main interest is for customers/searchers to find real businesses/products or services.
The problem in your case is that although you ship everywhere, the people searching for your products can find businesses in their area and that's for most businesses. When the Yellow pages where popular it would be rare that we'd pick one up to look for a service in another state or province right?
Ya let's see what the Pro's have to say...where are they??
dburdon
05-06-2011, 04:38 PM
The Google Places page tend to be featured in geo-locational sensitive searches. E.g. hotels. The type of and number of searches is also dependent on the location of the searcher.
PhilipDunn
05-06-2011, 05:09 PM
I have a client in a suburb next to a large city that has been trying for ages to get into the Large City Places listings - no luck yet. It seems you have to have an address and phone number in the large city or forget it. They do well in their suburb.
What confuses me is - are there two forms of Places listings?
The same client currently has 7 two line Places listings that come up in their main keywords searches. That I believe has gone up to 10 before. But once the traditional 2 line Places listings disappeared, replaced with expanded listings, with the pinkish pointer, an image and meta description. So I have these two different forms currently for different clients. Kind of Hybrid Places and Organic listing - why the different forms?
I was coming to get you in Toronto but lost a lot of time...maybe after the summer ;) You thought I was fibbing??
:confused:
Bill Treloar
05-06-2011, 06:50 PM
Sadly, I've actually seen it when the entire first page of Google — all ten listings — were Places listings.
That's just unacceptable.
morestar
05-06-2011, 06:59 PM
:confused:
Oh, the fibbing part was about this:
I would sure like to know a tad bit more about this one morestar.
Not a big deal, just fooling around cause we're close in proximity...
Oh, the fibbing part was about this:
Not a big deal, just fooling around cause we're close in proximity...
No, I wasn't kidding, I was serious. I would like to know more about perhaps how the results were "tailored" if there was something you could convey.
Proximity - I guess it to be about an hour fifteen, depending on lights and time of day and taking the 407 which is real nice.
morestar
05-06-2011, 07:25 PM
Oh no, 25 tops, QEW, from and to downtown...
For those tailored results, I really can't explain it. I'm sure a lot of us call ourselves experts while half the time we're just lucky. Maybe I tried too hard? No idea but once I get the chance to settle down and put some time into the site, it'll be nicer looking...
Oh no, 25 tops, QEW, from and to downtown...
I was raised in TO, but moved a little north east. In perfect conditions, its 35 minutes for me to get to East York, so it's another 35 minutes for me to get to Burlington. My brother in law would do it in much less time - he's crazy.
For those tailored results, I really can't explain it. I'm sure a lot of us call ourselves experts while half the time we're just lucky. Maybe I tried too hard? No idea but once I get the chance to settle down and put some time into the site, it'll be nicer looking...
If you ever find time to figure it out and feel so inclined.... :)
morestar
05-06-2011, 07:49 PM
Wel I don't feel I have the best inbound links at all, and at most I could safely say, write a lot of articles, make some videoes, and make some slideshows to share on slideshare, for out here, when I went on my little campaign, I did such things and got to the top pretty quick.
I wouldn't supposed why the organic is above the Places, maybe some others can come and speculate - we're still waiting for them...
softlogic
05-07-2011, 06:09 AM
I wonder if we are not all getting slightly paranoid about this. Research I have done amongst friends, acqaintances and family, albeit hardly thorough or definitive, seems to suggest that the majority of people, when searching, tend to ignore the sponsored or 'placed' results anyway.
As a buyer/researcher, I certainly do, believing that the real deals or required detail lies in, not the paid entries but, the organic results of my key phrase search.
We cannot blame Google in their efforts to make money from what is after all, an excellent free service.
Many large supermarkets in the UK offer free 'postcard' adverts for selling your 'un-wanted' goods. A good service and only truly successful by using optimized and eye catching content, as nobody can pay to be 'on top'
I agree it's totally useless having paid and organic results on the same page, and I think despite many top places being paid for, as morestar indicated, it can still be done, plus, as I say, many people will flick to page two/three to find organic results anyway.
In business for over 35 years before retiring early to the Mediterranean, I always measured results by the 'bottom line' and not by whatever dubious 'facts and figures' some slick PR or advertising guy was trying to convince me with.
This why I will NOT be taking up Googles latest £100 free Adwords offer! - I don't believe their figures or promises.
Clarrie
05-07-2011, 07:54 AM
The Google Places page tend to be featured in geo-locational sensitive searches. E.g. hotels. The type of and number of searches is also dependent on the location of the searcher.
Agreed. And as I understand the theory behind it, Google also promote Places results for terms where they believe a searcher will more likely to be looking for a local service, e.g. plumber, builder, cinema, restaurant, etc. Obviously there are "crossover" areas. for example, we work with an office furniture supplier - they operate nationally, but results for their keywords usually have a strong Places element. Some other clients we work with that have a less "localised" product/service and show only a minimal Places presence. This is Google's strategy, and who's to say it's wrong? Apart from it's a pain if you are a national company without local bases of operation.
spaniard
05-07-2011, 11:06 AM
Google places is taking up 8 spots on some of the searches leaving only 2 organic listings on the first page!
I have seen 10 spots, the whole result page! I think they are changing things and probably testing which results are better: organic results o Google Places. Whatever it is we have to work on Google Places ranking:-)
weballways
05-09-2011, 02:26 AM
Google Local and Organic Result are being mixed which is quietly not fair for clients and Google should make it clear before making any mixing results.
nickoran
05-09-2011, 06:55 AM
I seem to get it for searches where I do "service + area", I dont know if I would call it acceptible or not, I'm sure google are testing it, but Im not sure what average users will make of it, do they even notice? do they go on to the next page?
suddenly getting full pages of google places listings is certainly taking some explaining to clients.
Doesnt this mean that to get in the listings you have to be signed up to google now? what if you dont want to or for some reason cant verify your places listing? it just seems a bit too controlling of google to what I've come to expect from them I think.
I know a good painter who does not have a workshop or storefront and just works out of his home. I know he would not want walk-in traffic coming to his home, which is where his business mail comes to. So he would not want to have a Places listing. What is an alternative for this type of business? A PO box addy? I don't think it is allowed.
morestar
05-09-2011, 09:09 AM
suddenly getting full pages of google places listings is certainly taking some explaining to clients.
Doesnt this mean that to get in the listings you have to be signed up to google now?
Very good questions, and even on my end we've had a lot of explaining to do with our clients with respect to the places listings - a lot of clients even go as far as believing that we haven't done our job if they don't find themselves in the Places listings - and as mentioned, my ranking report software doesn't even count the Places listing so have have to check them out manually for huge lists of keywords.
morestar
05-09-2011, 09:10 AM
I know a good painter who does not have a workshop or storefront and just works out of his home. I know he would not want walk-in traffic coming to his home, which is where his business mail comes to. So he would not want to have a Places listing. What is an alternative for this type of business? A PO box addy? I don't think it is allowed.
All I can think in this case is try to convince him that the need for the places listing is very important and then try to build his Places account in such a way as to hinder drop-ins and push phone calls...
That or just beat out the Places listings all together, but that is a difficult task.
a lot of clients even go as far as believing that we haven't done our job if they don't find themselves in the Places listings
On a local basis, this might not be an issue if there is, as I've posted, a storefront or brick n morter addy. I will, however, look a little closer at this in Places to see if it can be tweeked a bit for the biz with no storefront.
my ranking report software doesn't even count the Places listing so have have to check them out manually for huge lists of keywords.
Very good point. I think the suggesion box to our developers ranking/report software requires an email or two to see if it's being addressed. Otherwise we take more time to do manually when we use the software to at least ease some of the manual work.
morestar
05-09-2011, 10:09 AM
I think the suggesion box to our developers ranking/report software requires an email or two to see if it's being addressed.
And if it is, please do let me know if the ranking software you're using can be shared or even purchased, I'm not too sure WEBCEO is going to address this at all.
morestar
05-09-2011, 10:24 AM
It's interesting, the thought I just had whilst looking through WEBCEO's website, specifically regarding Google places (http://www.webceo.com/newsletter/issue-32/):
It’s one of the best ways to get to Google’s first results page.
It's true, it is an easy way to get first page results and you don't even really need the help of an SEO to do this.
To date, there's a lot of talk (just talk, only talk, all SEOs are talking and talking) about optimizing for Google places but nothing is concrete, nothing and in the end the business owner who knows nothing of the Web and even less about SEO can out-rank an SEO's 'work' in Places any day of the week.
Do you think that was Google's intention? For now I do...
And if it is, please do let me know if the ranking software you're using can be shared or even purchased, I'm not too sure WEBCEO is going to address this at all.
I will look into this when I get a chance, but your next post indicates that you seem to have found a resolve with WebCEO. Is that correct?
hawkwind dave
05-10-2011, 06:20 AM
I know a good painter who does not have a workshop or storefront and just works out of his home. I know he would not want walk-in traffic coming to his home, which is where his business mail comes to. So he would not want to have a Places listing. What is an alternative for this type of business? A PO box addy? I don't think it is allowed.
one can set their places listing to not show their exact location.
one can set their places listing to not show their exact location.
How do you suggest I hide the physical address and still have it approved by GP? They don't like PO box addys as far as I know.
Google places listing can definitly be optimized.
you can get tones of valuble info at david mihm' s and mike blumenthal's blogs about how to.
Managing Google places listing ,Analytic and local keywords rank tracking on the local results of Google,Bing and yahoo
are just few of the features of the GetMeListed tool that was recently released for beta users.
I already doing an extensive usage with the tool to pick the right categories and target the right citation & review sources.
as well as competitors analysis and kwds suggestions.
check my signature if you want to try it.
if you optimize Google places for a living this tool is one of a kind.
I might be not objective , but i keep being amazed every time it helps me.
morestar
05-11-2011, 02:36 PM
Google places listing can definitly be optimized.
you can get tones of valuble info at david mihm' s and mike blumenthal's blogs about how to.
Managing Google places listing ,Analytic and local keywords rank tracking on the local results of Google,Bing and yahoo
are just few of the features of the GetMeListed tool that was recently released for beta users.
I already doing an extensive usage with the tool to pick the right categories and target the right citation & review sources.
as well as competitors analysis and kwds suggestions.
check my signature if you want to try it.
if you optimize Google places for a living this tool is one of a kind.
I might be not objective , but i keep being amazed every time it helps me.
I personally, didn't see anything related to actual optimization of a Places account.
SEO (search engine optimization) in, websites and with links.
Places is a place where you list your business information (hopefully in the right category) and if the business information isn't in the right category, and someone corrects that mistake, that's NOT SEO. Whew!!
Like I said, a simple business owner's Places listing can and does many times, beat out the SEO'd competition in places results.
I looked around Dave and Mike's blog, could you provide an exact URL for the rest of us to research please?
PhilipDunn
05-11-2011, 02:42 PM
I didn't see anything on Dave's blog either, though there are many nuances explained about Places on Mike's blog. Don't know that any of them make a difference in placement results..
those guys are the gurus of local seo.
check this out.
davidmihm.com/
blumenthals.com/blog/
morestar , i really respect what you are saying.
sometimes even unclaimed listing can beat optimized listings. but the reasons for that can vary.
some SEOs might not be capable of doing that.
but many of us, are able to deliver significant rank improvement for specific keywords the customers needs.
it's mainly depends on citations,review and on page optimization.
now that you have the links to these blogs, look into it...there's a lot of information about that.
look into the blog rolls you can find some other local seo bloggers.
there's a whole community of SEOs that specialize only in Local results seo. so ..there must be a way of doing it.
kfir
morestar
05-11-2011, 05:32 PM
those guys are the gurus of local seo.
check this out.
davidmihm.com/
blumenthals.com/blog/
morestar , i really respect what you are saying.
sometimes even unclaimed listing can beat optimized listings. but the reasons for that can vary.
some SEOs might not be capable of doing that.
but many of us, are able to deliver significant rank improvement for specific keywords the customers needs.
it's mainly depends on citations,review and on page optimization.
Hey again kfia, I was kind of looking for links to actual pages cause my search returned nothing directly related to optimizing Places pages.
What you say above, I agree that there are off-Places things that can be done to help susbstantiate the Places listing - of course but those are SEO/Web design practices. The same goes with citations, any business owner can find (through search) a decent and respected list of places to get citations/reviews from - yes but to actually Optimize the Places page not really possible. Sure you can add keywords to the description and add a few extra categories but that's NOT SEO either.
A business owner usually uses his/her keywords when describing their business, yes, and I would suggest that they do so if they weren't but that's NOT SEO is it?