White hat and black hat seo

[nicksontinko]

I am thankful to all the members of this discussion website for helping me with the development and website design. Luckily, I was able to design the best site. The site is also actually very SEO-friendly. I am getting to know more about SEO. But I need help from all of you guys and the experts when it comes to SEO. I wish to be familiar with the white hat and black hat SEO services. What is the significant difference between them? To the best of my knowledge, white hat SEO is a technique of ethics and black hat SEO is unethical. Am I right? Or if I’m wrong, please correct me. Thanks guys!

[bryanbell]

Yes you are absolutely right nick.

Black hat seo is generally the techniques that are used to get higher search rankings in an unethical manner like breaking search engines rules and regulations. But for that you will be penalized by search engines.
Keyword stuffing, invisible text and doorway pages are some of the black hat seo techniques.

White hat seo is technique includes link building, backlinking and link popularity. White Hat SEO is more frequently used by those who intend to make a long-term investment on their Web site. It is also known as ethical SEO.

[williamc]

I need help from all of you guys and the experts when it comes to SEO. I wish to be familiar with the white hat and black hat SEO services.


I am here to talk about effective SEO techniques to boost website ranking, being familiar with it and all.

I ask again, which is it?

[mjtaylor]

For just a moment, let's pretend this is not a post to post. Let's assume that a new member who really doesn't understand the concepts might want to know the difference.

The simplest way to understand black hat SEO is to remember that anything that is against search engine guidelines is not White Hat. If you consult and follow the SE guidelines, you have no concerns. If it makes someone feel safer to call the practices grey hat (because it is a safety issue), that's fine, but if a search engine would call it manipulative, then it is simply not White Hat.

You are wrong when you say it's unethical. Black Hat techniques are not illegal or unethical -- unless you are performing it on someone else's site without fully explaining the risks -- that would be highly unethical, IMO.

When I search "Black Hat SEO (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS249US249&defl=en&q=define:Black+hat+seo&sa=X&ei=SkwmTdHdOcO78gbkrZT7AQ&ved=0CB0QkAE)" Google offers a page of definitions at the top of the results:




Definitions of Black hat seo on the Web:

Spamdexing (also known as search spam, search engine spam or web spam) involves a number of methods, such as repeating unrelated phrases, to manipulate the relevancy or prominence of resources indexed by a search engine, in a manner inconsistent with the purpose of the indexing system. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hat_seo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hat_seo)
This term refers to using deceptive or unethical techniques to get high rankings in search engines; for example hidden text, cloaking and link farms. Don't do this!
www.headland.co.uk/pages/glossary (http://www.headland.co.uk/pages/glossary)
Any optimization tactic that causes a site to rank more highly than its content would otherwise justify, or any changes made specifically for search engines that don't improve the user's experience of the site. In other words, optimizations that are against search engine guidelines. ...
www.bukisa.com/articles/57153_search-engine-optimization-seo-glossary-of-terms (http://www.bukisa.com/articles/57153_search-engine-optimization-seo-glossary-of-terms)


For the sake of simplicity's sake, here's list of Black Hat SEO strategies -- something of a cheat sheet of cheats, eh? ;)


keyword stuffing
cloaking including sneaky redirects
hidden links
hidden text
link farms, wheels, buying, automated blog commenting and or other link spamming;
doorway pages
any tactic that is solely intended to manipulate PR or SERPs
anything not in compliance search engine guidelines.


Please don't get panty-twisted over this. I am not judging anyone or implying anyone is bad or unethical or nefarious for practicing these techniques. I am not saying I haven't used any of these. I am simply saying these practices are "Black Hat" SEO.

Know the risks for using these techniques. If Google finds them -- say, your competition reports you -- your site may be penalized. Sites have been banned, but usually you simply lose all your hard work. Time and energy that woulda coulda shoulda best be spent in creating compelling content that converts to sales and attracts links naturally!

No one can take that away from you. :)

---

Like this explanation? Please ReTweet it! (http://twitter.com/home?status=RT+%40m_j_taylor+Black%20Hat%20risky%2 0but%20not%20unethical?%20%23SEO%20http://bit.ly/eCwgGz)

[SteveGerencser]

You know I love ya mj, but I don't consider any of those "tactics" black hat, just poor SEO.. True black hat tactics, even though I really hate that term, are things you will most likely never hear of in any great numbers because black hats tend to not actually SHARE their tactics until after they have been burned out and used up.. That's when those tactics hit the mainstream and become useless for the most part..

Oh yeah, there is not hat.. Just rules put in place by search engines to make their jobs easier.. If you had a store in the same shopping center as Walmart, would you let Walmart tell you how to run your store so that they can make more money??

[hawkwind dave]

In my book, SEO is neither white hat or black hat... yes there are some techniques which most of us would avoid is we want any longevity out of our URL's, techniches like cloaking and numerous doorway pages, which most of us would certainly put in the black hat camp, however ALL seo intended to manipulate the SERP... If your site needs working on to improve it's ranking, and said work does infact improve your site's ranking, then you've just manipulated the results... so with that in mind, there cannot be a white hat, hence my 'no hat at all' stance.

[keyon]

If you had a store in the same shopping center as Walmart, would you let Walmart tell you how to run your store so that they can make more money??

Finally...a real-world comparison. Frankly, I've never understood why people think that conducting business on the Web means you have to follow a different set of rules than any other business that operates in this world. The most successful companies (offline) hardly live up to the "ethical" and "fair" standards that people expect from websites.

[mjtaylor]

You know I love ya mj, but I don't consider any of those "tactics" black hat, just poor SEO.. True black hat tactics, even though I really hate that term, are things you will most likely never hear of in any great numbers because black hats tend to not actually SHARE their tactics until after they have been burned out and used up.. That's when those tactics hit the mainstream and become useless for the most part..

Oh yeah, there is not hat.. Just rules put in place by search engines to make their jobs easier.. If you had a store in the same shopping center as Walmart, would you let Walmart tell you how to run your store so that they can make more money??

And I love ya right back, Steve! And while you may define black hat any way you like or insist there are no hats, there is a term that is in circulation that is defined as determined by a consensus of our peers and those who observe the profession. The references I quoted as well as wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_optimization#White_hat_versus_black_ hat) outline the same simplistic types of techniques which contravene search engine guidelines.

Whether or not this term should exist is another thread entirely.

And if the little store in the shopping plaza felt that having their brochures handed out in WalMart was important for traffic they might happily comply any guidelines Walmart suggested. But it would be their choice - comply and Walmart lets the merchant hand out their brochure or don't comply and the merchant gets to find their traffic some other way.

Google has a right to make guidelines and webmasters are free to decide whether to follow them.

[mjtaylor]

Just ran across this story about link buying for JC Penney: An SEO Black Hat Whodunit! (http://www.webproworld.com/webmaster-forum/threads/106958-Who-Bought-JC-Penney-Links-An-SEO-Black-Hat-Whodunit!). The New York times article, SEO's Dirty Little Secrets (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/business/13search.html), article references black and white SEO repeatedly, in an attempt to explain why link buying is a no-no.


And the intrigue starts in the sprawling, subterranean world of “black hat” optimization, the dark art of raising the profile of a Web site with methods that Google considers tantamount to cheating.

Despite the cowboy outlaw connotations, black-hat services are not illegal, but trafficking in them risks the wrath of Google. The company draws a pretty thick line between techniques it considers deceptive and “white hat” approaches, which are offered by hundreds of consulting firms and are legitimate ways to increase a site’s visibility.


In 2006, Google announced that it had caught BMW using a black-hat strategy to bolster the company’s German Web site, BMW.de. That site was temporarily given what the BBC at the time called “the death penalty,” stating that it was “removed from search results.”

BMW acknowledged that it had set up “doorway pages,” which exist just to attract search engines and then redirect traffic to a different site. The company at the time said it had no intention of deceiving users, adding “if Google says all doorway pages are illegal, we have to take this into consideration.”

The article goes on to interview a purveyor of links ... it's an interesting read: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/business/13search.html.

[byronc]

I know you guys are all technical and discuss seo as if its white and black. My only problem with sites that do seo(white or black), is that they make the search engines useless to an extent.

I have posted this before, and will keep positing it. When I look for a product, - say a desk(or something). I find that google sometimes does not give me the depth i need. i cant ask google to give me the small guy, the new furniture artist or the cheap guy as all i find on the first 5- 10 pages are 1. some few relevant sites and 2. guys with big marketing(read seo). and no matter how you twist your keywords you get the same perps coming up. its almost better just to go to the local yellow pages and click through a list of furnture dealers to see what they have to offer...

[Millionaireman]

now i would say black hat seo are unethical practices that internet marketers do in order to gain more leverage from internet marketers who are only using ethical techniques like white hat seo techniques. A very basic black hat techniques would be key word stuffing however this technique is no longer given weight by bots.

[SteveGerencser]

now i would say black hat seo are unethical practices that internet marketers do in order to gain more leverage from internet marketers who are only using ethical techniques like white hat seo techniques. A very basic black hat techniques would be key word stuffing however this technique is no longer given weight by bots.

You are kidding right?? Writing a lot of words together on a web page is an "ethical" issue?? Really??

If Google were to come out and tell you that all web pages that use the color purple on them were violating their "ethical code" would you stop using the color purple??

[Millionaireman]

@SteveGerencser well the term "unethical" for me would be the best term to describe black hat techniques, i wouldn't describe it as illegal because if that is the case then most of us would be in jail right now...... so what term would you rather describe it so that i could update my vocabulary?

@printing.host Well, keyword stuffing is repeating the same keywords on the meta tags or even on the content of your websites. some would even try hiding the repeated keywords by blending the color of the keyword to match the background of your website. Now, i'm not suggesting you do this but we are just merely discussing a black hat technique :razz:

[SteveGerencser]

Why use the term "ethical" at all?? If Wal-Mart moved in to the same shopping center where you had your own store and told you that that flyers you put up on telephone poles for your store are now are now "unethical" would you stop putting up those flyers?? What if Wal-Mart told you that they didn't like the customers you had and decided that they were a bad element, would you stop working with them??

Why do you allow Google to have this much power over you and your business??

BTW, keyword stuffing is about as black hat as an ant is an elephant..

[mike95910]

I know you guys are all technical and discuss seo as if its white and black. My only problem with sites that do seo(white or black), is that they make the search engines useless to an extent.



Couldnt of said it any better myself.

[SteveGerencser]

Couldnt of said it any better myself.

Then why do you have links in your sig pointing to what I assume are your web sites?? Technically, this is SEO and if you think this makes SEs useless, why do you do it??

[Millionaireman]

@ SteveGerencser well sadly the internet search engines is currently dominated by google. For us, who are just starting or somehow gained some little experience would rather use the wheel rather than reinvent it....." As a lot of people say if you were able to rank well in google then the rest would follow."





Why do you allow Google to have this much power over you and your business??

I'm listening..... what do you suggest?

[williamc]

I'm listening..... what do you suggest?

Before search engines caught on, long before Google was created, there was this thing called advertising.. Many of us that made money on the net back then did so because we were smart enough to create relationships with relevant sites that had traffic from other sources. :)

[izapharry]

If you are doing SEO according to Google guidelines then that is white seo if you are doing reverse then it is black hat seo

[williamc]

If you are doing SEO according to Google guidelines then that is white seo if you are doing reverse then it is black hat seo

So, if I do what Google says, but in reverse order, it would be blackhat?

[Millionaireman]

Before search engines caught on, long before Google was created, there was this thing called advertising.. Many of us that made money on the net back then did so because we were smart enough to create relationships with relevant sites that had traffic from other sources. :)

Now, I understand as to why SteveGerencser is against the term "unethical", I'm sorry steve, I didn't mean to make a bad impression about it..... hope we can be friends.

@williamc thanks for clarifying that to us..... Now, I have a reason as to why we should not let google dominate our business.

[SteveGerencser]

I don't call myself an SEO.. SEO is one small part of what I do though.. I prefer the term internet marketer.. I have a simply rule for any web site that I manage either for myself or for a client, if search traffic is greater than 25% of my overall traffic it's time to go out and find new traffic sources.. I do not want a for profit company to make a decision that is based on their bottom line to be able to put me or my clients out of business.. When it comes right down to it, Google really is in the business to make money for them, not me..

This is why you will never see me, or one of my clients, freak out because Google made an algo change and now my traffic is down 70% or more.. Besides, Google search traffic only converts about 5% and other traffic converts at around 60%.. Guess which I would rather have ;)

[wfano]

Now that the difference is very clear, the choice is up to you! ;-)

[Millionaireman]

This is why you will never see me, or one of my clients, freak out because Google made an algo change and now my traffic is down 70% or more.. Besides, Google search traffic only converts about 5% and other traffic converts at around 60%.. Guess which I would rather have ;)

Now, that you have mentioned it, well most of us are focus on SEO probably because when I started Internet Marketing Google already dominated cyberspace. It's like if your website does not reflect in google ....... "Man you are in big trouble".

Perspectives do change and i'm quite open for other alternatives and others. Well, I admire the idea, advertising as an alternative visitors source but then in my experience I only get high bounce rates when I used paid advertising. Hopefully you could shed some light on this.......

When it comes to conversion your right, I get better conversions from other sources compared to search engines.

[SteveGerencser]

Perspectives do change and i'm quite open for other alternatives and others. Well, I admire the idea, advertising as an alternative visitors source but then in my experience I only get high bounce rates when I used paid advertising. Hopefully you could shed some light on this.......

It all comes down to niche and target audience.. Every site and product is different.. Figuring those things out is where the skill comes in..

[SteveGerencser]

Hello,

Black Hat SEO generally stands for the unethical way of marketing.A Black represents a poor user of SEO who breaks all rule and norms of SEO marketing .It will cause him a ban for his website.
On the other hand White Hat represents an ethical SEO marketing who generally updates his sources with quality content which turn him into an active user.He always takes a necessary action where required and leave relevant comments instead of spamming.

http://eddiedeguzman.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/cartoon-bang-head-jpg.gif?w=200&h=200

[kgun]

In my book, SEO is neither white hat or black hat... yes there are some techniques which most of us would avoid is we want any longevity out of our URL's, techniches like cloaking and numerous doorway pages, which most of us would certainly put in the black hat camp, however ALL seo intended to manipulate the SERP... If your site needs working on to improve it's ranking, and said work does infact improve your site's ranking, then you've just manipulated the results... so with that in mind, there cannot be a white hat, hence my 'no hat at all' stance.
My bolding.


If you had a store in the same shopping center as Walmart, would you let Walmart tell you how to run your store so that they can make more money??
There is much greed hidden behind an agenda of ethics.

My recommendation, set up a store in the same shopping center as Walmart:shock: and sell ethical shopping advice.:wink:8-):roll:

[deepsand]

http://eddiedeguzman.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/cartoon-bang-head-jpg.gif?w=200&h=200
And, this, and similar others, on the very first day back from "leave of absence."

[craigmn3]

But aren't we in a dance with three partners? Google, who is looking for ppc partners, ppc (and SEM) who are looking to outdo those of vying for natural listings, and of course, those interested in SEO and natural listings. Each one of us is looking to kukold the other.

Google wants the money and we want the market, so we smile and curtsey and dance around each other. Black hat, white hat protends that there is a good guy out there.

[deepsand]

Not to mention that Google is schizoid; it can only deliver traffic to PPC at the expense of the organic, and vice versa.

[SteveGerencser]

I have actually written a blog about this in the highest detail i could possibly write. seopositive.co.uk/blog/white-hat-black-hat-and-grey-hat-seo I hope this is of use to you

Some people would consider coming to a new forum and dropping a link to your website, without bothering to contribute to the discussion, black hat..

[Tubby]

I only get high bounce rates when I used paid advertising. Hopefully you could shed some light on this.......

It might well be that the payment itself is an incentive to deliver traffic . .

Their is a 'philosophy' currently being expressed in some quarters that some searchers will find the web page that was made with them in mind . . Despite search engines.

I always remember a mate of mine that owned a Hillman Imp and was looking for a specific SU carburetor part. He was on his way to one of bigger Local swap meets . . he told me, " I do not care if it is at the bottom of a huge wooden box full of crap . . "If its there I will find it."

I rather tend to sometimes view 'search engines' as similar to the 'huge wooden box'. there are many many pages that will be found (as I said) Despite search engines.

I never noticed what colour hat these pages were wearing.

[Tubby]

I sometime wonder if there is a formula for calculating the amount of "Manipulation" required for a website.

It might well be that for every second site selling the same item requires 1% manipulation.

This could mean if you have 200 direct competitors (selling the same item) you would need 100% manipulation (black hat) to achieve a good result.

I might seem be displaying a degree of cynicism . . I am not, it was an attempt at light heated humour (just an element of truth)

[deepsand]

Some people would consider coming to a new forum and dropping a link to your website, without bothering to contribute to the discussion, black hat..
He previously received a PM about self-promotion; now he's upped the ante.

[deepsand]

Can anyone involved in SEO explain what keyword stuffing is please? The name suggests using hundreds or thousands of keywords?
Let me look that up for you: keyword stuffing (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=keyword+stuffing)

[hassan]

okay i understand the difference between white hat SEO, Black Hat SEo , But what is Grey hat SEO ? i am little Confused with these .

[deepsand]

okay i understand the difference between white hat SEO, Black Hat SEo , But what is Grey hat SEO ? i am little Confused with these .
There is no bright line between Black & White.

Some things are much closer to one than the other; and, some fall squarely in the middle.

[SteveGerencser]

The top 5 Black Hat SEO Techniques:-

Hidden content.
Meta keyword stuffing.
Meta Keywords.
Doorway or gateway pages.
Link farming.

And this is why black hat wins.. White hats are thinking what worked 10 years ago still works.. Meta keywords are not black hat.. Keyword stuffing is not black hat.. Nothing you listed there is anything a modern black hat would do.. #fail

[williamc]

White Hat SEO

White Hat SEO is a series of methods that will increase website / web page ranking naturally by following search engine guidelines - which excluded any artificial backlink building, and usually white hatter will create some good content or free tools to attract organic backlinks. They will distribute / promote the link bait pages to authority network, when people find these pages useful, they will start to spread them in their own blogs, forums or websites, hence backlinks are created naturally.

Let's address a couple points here just to make sure things are perfectly clear....

When you distribute link bait pages with the intention of getting 'natural' links, you have just become guilty of artificial link building. When you build tools to get links instead of making them to get traffic, you have just become guilty of artificial link building.

Not so keeping with Google Guidelines anymore, but you still feel your hat is white, don't you?

There are no hats when it comes to SEO. There are risks, both great and tiny. Which of these risks you take are up to you, but that does not make you a better, or worse, SEO than anyone else.

Please, before trying to tell people what is what. Know what is what first.

[deepsand]

He just copied/pasted that from the web.

[williamc]

I am aware of that but it did prompt a reply that hopefully other people may get a clue from.

[LD]

The White Hat approach to SEO focuses on using clean code...

Hmmmmm. After viewing some of your drive-by posts, I have surmised you are now trying cut-n-pasting contributions from others on the Internet to try and boost your rep? Not cool - unless you quote the sources you lifted the info from. :roll:

[deepsand]

Hmmmmm. After viewing some of your drive-by posts, I have surmised you are now trying cut-n-pasting contributions from others on the Internet to try and boost your rep? Not cool - unless you quote the sources you lifted the info from. :roll:
Even with attribution, not cool, as he's just repeating that which has already been too oft repeated.

[dimples]

A white hat seo technique can easily be a black hat technique if done in a rapid way. Just make sure that when you link build you are going for high quality sites. As much as possible avoid link farms, avoid using too much automatic link building tools. You will never know where they get their links from.

Dimples

[williamc]

Search engine spiders can spot the difference between white hat and black hat SEO efforts.

No, they can not. Do you even know what a spiders job is?

[deepsand]

Search engine spiders can spot the difference between white hat and black hat SEO efforts.
Setting aside the fact that crawlers/robots/spider don't see anything - that's the job of the indexing engine - just how does this spotting of "the difference between white hat and black hat SEO efforts" happen?

Have they become endowed with telescopic X-ray vision, superhuman hearing, and telepathic powers?

[C0ldf1re]

... it adds nothing new and of value to this dead thread.
Pardon? Dead? There are lots of recent posts on this thread. Anyway, nobody else replied to Steve's question, which I want to answer.


... If Google were to come out and tell you that all web pages that use the color purple on them were violating their "ethical code" would you stop using the color purple??
If you wanted a webpage to rank well in Google serps, you might have to avoid using purple (or think of a way to stop the GoogleBot seeing the purple).

It is their search engine and their index. They can set entry criteria for sites that they admit into their index. Forbidding purple in their index is their prerogative.

Your website is your own. Using purple is your prerogative.

You have no legitimate cause of grievance if Google refuse to admit your purple webpage into their index. Nonetheless, they would be needlessly rude to call you unethical for having a purple website.

[gladiolus]

White Hat SEO methods will force a webmaster into thinking long term for their search engine ranking success.. Black Hat search engine optimization is the techniques that are used to get higher search rankings in an unethical manner..

[deepsand]

White Hat SEO methods will force a webmaster into thinking long term for their search engine ranking success.
Any color hat can be worn for the short and/or long term.

[williamc]

I would also like to hear how any hat can force a webmaster to do diddly spit......

[deepsand]

Well, mine do sometimes force me to scratch my head.

[C0ldf1re]

Well, mine do sometimes force me to scratch my head.

(Scratching my head. I think I just hallucinated the following.)



Whit hat and Black hat both are the methods of seo.both are increasing the page rank and traffic of the web page, but white hat should be increase the page rank by ethical and natural manner, black hat do with unethical manner.white hat is profitable for visitors. while in black hat its possible for site to penalized or banned from search engines.

Searching for something new and useful in the above .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching .... searching ....
***************

[deepsand]

Perhaps it was something that you ate.

[C0ldf1re]

Perhaps it was something that you ate.

Yes. I am sure at all that I trust my own cooking.

Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... Must find good woman.... ********************************