Windows XP Format and reinstall

[kgun]

My old stationary computer still functions good enough. Now it is time to format and reinstall Windows Xp.

I know that a lot of members mean that Windows 7 is good and that it supports multiple new screens directly. The reason I think I can not use windows 7 is my special old Matrox graphics card for two (old) screens. I doubt that Windows 7 supports that old card and driver that costed about USD 800. So I prefer Windows Xp with two old screens to Windows 7 with one screen.

Do you think I can use Windows 7 on two old screens without that graphics card?

In case I can not, in this

http://www.webproworld.com/webmaster-forum/threads/93692-So-Microsoft-is-going-to-end-support-to-Windows-XP-SP2?

thread there is a discussion pro and contra serverpack 3. I have SP 2. Shall I install SP 3 and where can it be downloaded?

Additionally, some months ago I think there was a thread (not the above) about reinstalling Windows Xp with some advice about a rootkit and low level clean up. I am not able to find that thread. Does anybody remember the thread I think of?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[deepsand]

Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=1b544e90-7659-4bd9-9e51-2497c146af15) is an MS down-loadable application which will check
to see if your PC is ready for Windows 7. It scans your hardware, devices, and installed programs for known compatibility issues, gives you guidance on how to resolve potential issues found, and recommends what to do before you upgrade.

As for XP SP3:

Any qualms some have expressed about installing it are unfounded; and,
It is available only as an upgrade to SP2.



Additionally, some months ago I think there was a thread (not the above) about reinstalling Windows Xp with some advice about a rootkit and low level clean up. I am not able to find that thread. Does anybody remember the thread I think of?
Are you perhaps referring to doing a non-destructive re-install of XP?

Or, are you asking about a low level (hard) format as opposed to a high level (soft) one?

[kgun]

non-destructive re-install[/B] of XP?

Or, are you asking about a low level (hard) format as opposed to a high level (soft) one?

More explicitely.

On a former format and reinstall via the recovery Cd, I experienced that key board problems returned after I while. I think the thread I talk about mentioned that format and reinstall may not be good enough to get rid of some "root problems" (unsure of the term).

I have only done low level hard formatting (that took more than 6 hours years ago on an IBM PSII Pc) once. I don't know if that is possible on my 8 year old computer.

[deepsand]

Perhaps someone was thinking that a "root kit" may have survived a high level (soft) format, which does not physically re-format the HD, but only logically re-formats the data on it, by hiding in the Master Boot Record (MBR). While that is theoretically possible, it is unlikely that the entirety of a root kit would reside in the MBR. Additionally, it is also highly unlikely that a root kit would interfere with keyboard input at all, let alone cause a problem that increases over time.

Should you decide to err on the side of caution, and do a low level format, understand that that will result in the loss of any partitioning that may currently be in place.

[kgun]

Thank you very much.

[deepsand]

Should you decide to do a non-destructive re-install, i.e., one that does no reformatting, so as preserve your data and non-OS programs, and do not know how to do that, let me know, and I'll dig out a link to an excellent set of instructions.

[kgun]

I have a lot of backups of data. The reformatted PC shall be minimalistic. It shall be targeted at handling URL's / links. It shall have Macromedia Dreamweaver 2004 Mx (good enough for this purpose), Internet Explorer 6 and the latest version of FireFox. IE and FF are more open on URL's than Opera.

My much stronger laptop has Python, C++Builder2010 and Delphi for PHP, the latest version of IE and Opera.

Additional software will be installed when required.

In a few months 4Tb harddrives will be standard here. I can wait until 10 and preferably 50 Tb disks are standard and Windows 64 bit operating systems are more mature.

That computer should have a fast flash system drive and at least 3 Tb standard drives and two or three screens. May be the android browser that is mature enough at the time a buy it.

[deepsand]

In that case, might want to do a low level format, simply so as to better ensure that any weak sectors are sequestered from use.

[edhan]

Don't know if this is the same for your hard disk as I remembered my Engineer was telling me long time ago that low level formatting might gives rise to complication as manufacturer had marked bad sectors on the hard disk. Doing low level formatting will cause errors in accessing as those bad sectors will be un-marked. Depending on your hard disk since it is 8 years old as I had done low level formatting on harddisk more than 20 years ago.

[Clint1]

Don't know if this is the same for your hard disk as I remembered my Engineer was telling me long time ago that low level formatting might gives rise to complication as manufacturer had marked bad sectors on the hard disk. Doing low level formatting will cause errors in accessing as those bad sectors will be un-marked. Depending on your hard disk since it is 8 years old as I had done low level formatting on harddisk more than 20 years ago.
Yeah I was about to mention that. I don't even think that can technically be done anymore with modern HD's, I believe it may technically be called "writing zeroes" to the HD. A LLF should only be done as a last resort. There are utilities out there that I think may still actually do it (sort of forcibly maybe), but unless there's something really wrong with the HD you should use the manufacturer's HD diagnostic download which usually has the "pseudo LLF" or writing zeroes to the drive. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_formatting#Transition_away_from_LLF

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/geom/formatLow-c.html Last paragraph.

But a typical quick format is all that should be needed, if reformatting needs to be done.

Do you suspect you have some kind of rootkit infection? Some keyboard (and mouse) problems can be caused by software and Registry settings.

If you're happy with SP2 then I wouldn't screw around with SP3. There's numerous software and driver compatibility problems with SP3.

As far as Matrox drivers go; if Win7 is anything like XP in this area, they might be on the CD. XP has a massive driver library. While some are rather "generic", and may not have all the features of the actual updated vendor drivers, they can still work. Not long ago I searched all over trying to find XP drivers for a sound card wasting hours on that, only to finally find out when I checked the CD they were there, and they worked fine.




As for XP SP3:

Any qualms some have expressed about installing it are unfounded; and,


Not exactly. Try telling that to the many that had SP3 problems, including myself. ;) There were some serious problems with it, the worst that caused a BSOD with an "infinite reboot quality loop" rendering the trashed PC's as useless (reformatting was all that could fix it). I used to be at the M$ forums all the time and it was loaded with SP3 problems. I was working on this particular problem with them and got it narrowed down to either FireWire or USB drivers. I had to hack the SP3 version I d'loaded to get it working. I don't know if they ever fixed this, the last time I checked (2+ years) the SP3 d'load was the same size as mine. But it's working fine for me now since I fixed it.

Another bad problem is if you use the address bar at the bottom area in the Taskbar, well, it's gone in SP3. I was able to fix this by (again) hacking SP3 replacing its browseui.dll file with the SP2 version (6.0.2900.2180). I simply could not live without the address bar at the bottom...how else is one supposed to type a URL and get to a website?????? :evil: Idiotic move to remove it.

You can d'load SP3 here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyId=5B33B5A8-5E76-401F-BE08-1E1555D4F3D4&displaylang=en

[alphaomega]

I would not recommend low format. This is something that can make you HD unusable. You can download many partitioning applications that will delete the boot sector and others that will wipe physically all data.
Windows 7 pro have compatibility mode (virtual Win XP), which should run you Matrox. Did you check Matrox website for new drivers? Possibly you find updated drivers there.

[deepsand]

If you're happy with SP2 then I wouldn't screw around with SP3. There's numerous software and driver compatibility problems with SP3.

Not exactly. Try telling that to the many that had SP3 problems, including myself. ;) There were some serious problems with it, the worst that caused a BSOD with an "infinite reboot quality loop" rendering the trashed PC's as useless (reformatting was all that could fix it). I used to be at the M$ forums all the time and it was loaded with SP3 problems. I was working on this particular problem with them and got it narrowed down to either FireWire or USB drivers. I had to hack the SP3 version I d'loaded to get it working. I don't know if they ever fixed this, the last time I checked (2+ years) the SP3 d'load was the same size as mine.
There initially were some problems with specific machines - certain HP boxes, as I recall - problems that were fixed.

If you use Windows Update to move from SP2 to SP3 there should be no problem.


Another bad problem is if you use the address bar at the bottom area in the Taskbar, well, it's gone in SP3. I was able to fix this by (again) hacking SP3 replacing its browseui.dll file with the SP2 version (6.0.2900.2180). I simply could not live without the address bar at the bottom...how else is one supposed to type a URL and get to a website?????? :evil: Idiotic move to remove it.
That was never a default setting; and, I've yet to see a user that even used it, let alone depended on it. They just use the Address Bar in their browser.

In actuality, the so-called "Address Bar" is really the "Run" command that appears in the Start menu, and is easily & quickly invoked via the <Windows><R> shortcut.

[Clint1]

There initially were some problems with specific machines - certain HP boxes, as I recall - problems that were fixed.
It wasn't just HP, that was the misconception, along with being AMD only. It was also on custom built PC's (all of mine are), and on both Intel and AMD platforms. No one was ever able to determine exactly why this was happening.



That was never a default setting; and, I've yet to see a user that even used it, let alone depended on it. They just use the Address Bar in their browser.
But for that you have to first open a webpage, in order to get to (an address bar) and your actual website destination. It's such a time-saver to be able to instantly type or paste a URL in that always-displayed address bar. And to click the down arrow icon and instantly see the list of previous websites to revisit (which if not for the address bar you'd have to first open a webpage, then click "History").



In actuality, the so-called "Address Bar" is really the "Run" command that appears in the Start menu, and is easily & quickly invoked via the <Windows><R> shortcut.
Yeah that'll work, but extra steps. ;) I guess if you've never used something, you can't miss it.

[deepsand]

But for that you have to first open a webpage, in order to get to (an address bar) and your actual website destination. It's such a time-saver to be able to instantly type or paste a URL in that always-displayed address bar. And to click the down arrow icon and instantly see the list of previous websites to revisit (which if not for the address bar you'd have to first open a webpage, then click "History").
Why do you need to do anything more than simply open a browser instance? :confused:

And, do not the browser Address bar and Run maintain histories, and present them, in a like manner?


Yeah that'll work, but extra steps. ;) I guess if you've never used something, you can't miss it.
This is, of course, always the case.

As for myself, I've always so many apps. competing for space on the Task Bar that to give over room there to Run would only unnecessarily increase the congestion.

[Clint1]

Why do you need to do anything more than simply open a browser instance? :confused:
Because with the address bar, you don't even need to open a browser instance. You click (to draw focus to) the address bar, then type.



And, do not the browser Address bar and Run maintain histories, and present them, in a like manner?
Sure, but the box in the Run command is too short to see full URL's. (And takes clicks to get to it). For example, any URL here at WPW is long, and if they were listed in the Run command's box, they would all look the same:
http://www.webproworld.com/webmaster-forum/[....???]



As for myself, I've always so many apps. competing for space on the Task Bar that to give over room there to Run would only unnecessarily increase the congestion.
I use a "3 level" Desktop bottom: Address bar on the bottom (so it's long, full-length), open apps area, then the Quick Launch toolbar above that (which has dozens of shortcuts on it). That would look pretty massive to one that only uses a one-level toolbar, but likewise when I see a one-level toolbar with the QL toolbar and open apps on the same bar, that looks bizarre to me. :shock: [blink-blink] :shock:

[Clint1]

I use a "3 level" Desktop bottom: Address bar on the bottom (so it's long, full-length), open apps area, then the Quick Launch toolbar above that (which has dozens of shortcuts on it)..........
http://i54.tinypic.com/2im6m8y.png (Ooops, forgot about that URL. :lol: Hee hee. :lol:)

[deepsand]

Because with the address bar, you don't even need to open a browser instance. You click (to draw focus to) the address bar, then type.
1 click - browser open.


Sure, but the box in the Run command is too short to see full URL's. (And takes clicks to get to it). For example, any URL here at WPW is long, and if they were listed in the Run command's box, they would all look the same
Are not the same click actions required to see a drop-down listing of previously entered data, regardless of whether it's a browser Address Bar, a Task Bar instance of Run, or a manually invoked instance of Run?

As for truncation, all 3 do that. How does the length of the display field of a Task Bar instance of Run compared to the other 2?


I use a "3 level" Desktop bottom: Address bar on the bottom (so it's long, full-length), open apps area, then the Quick Launch toolbar above that (which has dozens of shortcuts on it). That would look pretty massive to one that only uses a one-level toolbar, but likewise when I see a one-level toolbar with the QL toolbar and open apps on the same bar, that looks bizarre to me. :shock: [blink-blink] :shock:
As we're all working with a finite viewing area, it's a matter of which trade-offs work best for each.

Given that there are many sites that I repeatedly visit each day, I prefer to give over some of that space to a Links Bar at top, and conserve space at the bottom.

[Clint1]

1 click - browser open.
More like: 1 click browser open, another click to focus on the address bar, then type the URL.



Are not the same click actions required to see a drop-down listing of previously entered data, regardless of whether it's a browser Address Bar, a Task Bar instance of Run, or a manually invoked instance of Run?
No, you have to first click "Start", "Run", then click the drop-down arrow. Whereas with the address bar it's just one single click to see previous URL's.



As for truncation, all 3 do that. How does the length of the display field of a Task Bar instance of Run compared to the other 2?
".......but the box in the Run command is too short to see full URL's. ........For example, any URL here at WPW is long, and if they were listed in the Run command's box, they would all look the same." http://www.webproworld.com/webmaster-forum/[.....???] Whereas in the address bar, you're able to see the full URL's. (At least how I have it in that screenshot above you are. Some will put it on the same bar as open apps or the QL toolbar and then it will be shorter). Sure, they will all truncate, it's matter of which does it the least.

[deepsand]

More like: 1 click browser open, another click to focus on the address bar, then type the URL.
<WINKEY><R> - Focus is automatically on data entry field, ready to accept input, same as after single click on Task Bar instance of Run.


No, you have to first click "Start", "Run", then click the drop-down arrow. Whereas with the address bar it's just one single click to see previous URL's.
<WINKEY><R> - Focus is automatically on data entry field, ready to accept input, which can be Down-Arrow scroll key, same as after single click on Task Bar instance of Run; i.e., no mouse required!


".......but the box in the Run command is too short to see full URL's. ... Sure, they will all truncate, it's matter of which does it the least.
That was understood. The question was how the truncation of the Task Bar instance of Run, aka the Address Bar, compares with that of the browser Address bar.

[kgun]

Thank you very much all of you. I got a new keyboard for Christmas and that solved the keyboard problems. I have had nothing but
trouble with the wireless keyboard. No more wireless keyboard for me. The old cabled mouse and the new cabled keyboard function seamless. So step one is solved. The computer is still slower than new, so I may need this


Should you decide to do a non-destructive re-install, i.e., one that does no reformatting, so as preserve your data and non-OS programs, and do not know how to do that, let me know, and I'll dig out a link to an excellent set of instructions.

link. I will test that before I reformat the C drive.

Much good information in this thread that I and other members may need in the future.

[deepsand]

XP's No-Reformat, Nondestructive Total-Rebuild Option (http://windowssecrets.com/L060619-01-XPs-No-Reformat-Nondestructive-Total-Rebuild-Option)

This is just one of Fred Langa's many outstanding tech aids, available at Windows Secrets: Langa List (http://windowssecrets.com/langa/).

[Clint1]

I don't understand the point of this on that page:

"(There's also lots more on the Recovery Console here: http://tinyurl.com/p7fnr )"

First, why not just give the link, (and why not check the URL and be sure it works). And second, it's bad link at the G result page! Most:confused: Even back-tracking the URL to remove the G redirect garbage still shows an invalid page. So I'm curious as to what is on that webpage and it differers from the working links.

There's a bunch of good info there and to read, I saved the pages as .mht files and will print out the appropriate info. I've always had the Recovery Console installed as a boot option, but it's really limited as to what it can do. Nice to see some tweaks for it.

[deepsand]

I don't understand the point of this on that page:

"(There's also lots more on the Recovery Console here: http://tinyurl.com/p7fnr )"

First, why not just give the link, (and why not check the URL and be sure it works). And second, it's bad link at the G result page! Most:confused: Even back-tracking the URL to remove the G redirect garbage still shows an invalid page. So I'm curious as to what is on that webpage and it differers from the working links.
Looks like it was an indirect reference to a citation in one of Langa's newsletters on his site as it existed prior to his joining Windows Secrets.

In any case, the intended target is http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=%22recovery+console%22&sp-a=0008002a-sp00000000, which returns the results of a search for "Recovery Console" on the Windows Secrets site.

[kgun]

XP's No-Reformat, Nondestructive Total-Rebuild Option (http://windowssecrets.com/L060619-01-XPs-No-Reformat-Nondestructive-Total-Rebuild-Option)

This is just one of Fred Langa's many outstanding tech aids, available at Windows Secrets: Langa List (http://windowssecrets.com/langa/).
Finally I have time to look at it.



The First Fork In The Road
The no-reformat reinstall operation starts with a normal boot from an XP setup CD. Ideally, to save time, use a setup CD that's been "slipstreamed" to include the SP1 and SP2 patches and upgrades. (Need info on slipstreaming? See "How To Save An Hour (Or More) On XP Installs (http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=47212312)" and also this third-party site (http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_sp2_slipstream.asp).
Start your PC with the setup CD in a drive, and hit a key when you see the following screen:

Source: http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=189400897

The setup CD. I assume that is the "Fujitsu Siemens Product Recovery CD-ROM Windows XP Home Edition" that followed with the computer.



to save time, use a setup CD that's been "slipstreamed" to include the SP1 and SP2 patches and upgrades. (Need info on slipstreaming? See "How To Save An Hour (Or More) On XP Installs (http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=47212312)" and also this third-party site (http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_sp2_slipstream.asp).

Seems that I need slipstreaming to to include SP1 and SP2. Or can it be done as is with SP2 already installed? Earlier when I formatted and installed from the recovery CD I had to remove SP 2 before I could use the format and reinstall option from the recovery CD.

Slipstreaming Windows XP with Service Pack 2 (SP2) (http://www.winsupersite.com/article/showcase/slipstreaming-windows-xp-with-service-pack-2-sp2.aspx)

Not that simple.

I used to use one day to reformat and reinstall.

[Clint1]

The setup CD. I assume that is the "Fujitsu Siemens Product Recovery CD-ROM Windows XP Home Edition" that followed with the computer.
Probably not, I'm not sure a "recovery" CD can be used, probably the full OS CD is needed. You'll have to look more into that.



Seems that I need slipstreaming to to include SP1 and SP2. Or can it be done as is with SP2 already installed?
No, just SP2 is all you need. But if you want SP3, I believe SP3 can still only be installed over SP2--SP2 is a prerequisite. However with slipstreaming there may be a way to put SP2+SP3 on it. I slipstreamed XP Pro + SP2 and I just use that, to avoid having to create another CD, then just install SP3.



Earlier when I formatted and installed from the recovery CD I had to remove SP 2 before I could use the format and reinstall option from the recovery CD.
That tells you it's not a full OS CD. If it were actually reformatting, you wouldn't have to uninstall anything.

Again all this is with a full OS CD, can't say how it will be with a recovery CD.

[deepsand]

This Fujitsu document, Operating System Recovery (http://uk.ts.fujitsu.com/rl/servicesupport/techsupport/lifebook/general/Win%20XP%20Operating%20System%20Recovery.doc), seems to indicate that the Product Recovery CD-ROM will force a reformat. However, as it does provide for user control re. the preservation of existing partitions and their sizes, it just might provide for an invisible escape from the formatting step, as suggested by Langa.

With respect to SP3, Clint is correct re. its being a patch to SP2, as opposed to a complete install.

And, one can slipstream SP3; see http://www.google.com/search?q=slipstream+windows+xp+sp3&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[kgun]

That tells you it's not a full OS CD. If it were actually reformatting, you wouldn't have to uninstall anything.

Again all this is with a full OS CD, can't say how it will be with a recovery CD.
Definitely difficult.

The computer has been formatted and Xp reinstalled a least three times earlier. The first time I did it, I think it was before SP II, I had no problem. The last two times it was done by my son. He can this and since he is 500 km away I had to call him. I have removed nearly all programs and everything windows related. In advanced BIOS setup, I choose to boot the computer from the recovery CD, but get the following error:



Windows Setup.

Installasjonsprogrammet kan ikke fortsette, fordi Windows-versjonen på datamaskinen er nyere enn versjonen på CDen.

Translated to English:



Windows Setup.

Setup can not continue because the version of Windows on your computer is newer than the version on the CD.


I have deleted everything Windows related including SP III from the computer, so there has to be somthing related to the last configuration that is not removed. I am not able to find that. Can it be a .dll file or something similar?



I talked to my son on the phone and he said that I had two options left:
Try to format the C drive from DOS. He say that will be difficult because of Windows XP security.
Delete the old C partitition. I have done this earlier, but don't remember how it is done.
Any further advice will be very much appriciated.

In addition, I have Word 2002 with that Computer. Word2002 functioned seamless with Adobe Acrobat reader 2007 professional. This time I will use Open Office. Will the "word version" of that program function seamless with Acrobat reader 2007 professional?

[alphaomega]

You must remove partition. The record of your OS is stored in Master Boot Record, which does not get removed with format. Go to: http://www.petri.co.il/the-ultimate-guide-to-hard-drive-partitioning.htm or http://www.soft32.com/download_151.html. The later link lets you download Partition Magic which will delete your partition for sure. If you do, let Windows create the partition when running setup. That way you will have correct partition.

[kgun]

Thank you for that explanation. My computer has two physical disks:

Standalone Disk D for backup.
Partiticaion of local disk C and Local disk E.
The OS and all the system files are on the logical C disk. So my questions before I start is:

What will happen to the E disk with a lot of movie clips if I delete the C partitition? More precisely can I exclusively delte the logical C partition and keep the E partition intact?

[Clint1]

In advanced BIOS setup, I choose to boot the computer from the recovery CD, but get the following error:


Translated to English:
Don't use actual quotes with the forum tags because we can't see them when we quote. ;)

We can't really go any further until you say if all you have is some recovery CD, or if you have the full OS CD. Things are different with them.



I talked to my son on the phone and he said that I had two options left:
Try to format the C drive from DOS. He say that will be difficult because of Windows XP security.
Delete the old C partitition. I have done this earlier, but don't remember how it is done.
Any further advice will be very much appriciated.
XP's security doesn't know anything about DOS. If you're outside of Windows, you can do as you choose to the HD and XP won't know anything about it.

There's many ways to delete a partition, but once you do it, everything is lost on that partition. You can only delete the main C: partition outside of Windows, and that for example can be done when booting from the XP CD.



In addition, I have Word 2002 with that Computer. Word2002 functioned seamless with Adobe Acrobat reader 2007 professional. This time I will use Open Office. Will the "word version" of that program function seamless with Acrobat reader 2007 professional?
Those (and everything else) will be gone if you reformat or delete the partition. I don't use Open Office nor Acrobat Pro, so I don't know how or if they integrate with each other.

[Clint1]

You must remove partition. The record of your OS is stored in Master Boot Record, which does not get removed with format. Go to: http://www.petri.co.il/the-ultimate-guide-to-hard-drive-partitioning.htm or http://www.soft32.com/download_151.html. The later link lets you download Partition Magic which will delete your partition for sure. If you do, let Windows create the partition when running setup. That way you will have correct partition.
But you cannot delete the main partition, the one on which XP resides: 1. While in Windows, and 2. If you do, you lose everything. You can delete other partitions on a HD while in Windows, but you also lose anything on them. While the MBR may be retained, that's of little use once Windows is wiped and gone from a C: partition deletion. You have to start all over again.

[Clint1]

Thank you for that explanation. My computer has two physical disks:

Standalone Disk D for backup.
Partiticaion of local disk C and Local disk E.
The OS and all the system files are on the logical C disk. So my questions before I start is:

What will happen to the E disk with a lot of movie clips if I delete the C partitition? More precisely can I exclusively delte the logical C partition and keep the E partition intact?
I have a similar setup. If you delete the C: partition, E and D are fine. But you've lost everything on C:, your PC is useless because it no longer has an OS.

When I reformat/reinstall, I just do a quick format of C: then install XP back on that. My D: partition on the same HD is left intact. As is other physical HD's of course. (I also keep OE's .dbx storage files on the D: partition so they'll always be ok. I also have my Temporary Internet Files folder there, and for some storage in addition to a large 2nd HD).

[kgun]

I have a similar setup. If you delete the C: partition, E and D are fine. But you've lost everything on C:, your PC is useless because it no longer has an OS.
I think there is a misunderstanding here. That is exactly what I want. A clean disk with nothing on it.

Why I ask (I am not in a hurry since I have my Laptop). Let us say that C is partitioned into C and E. I thought that when I deleted the C partitition I would simultaneously delete E or can C be deleted individually and Windows restored from the recovery Cd?

Then the tools on the links posted by alphaomega shoud be fine or?

The recovery Cd was the only system restore Cd that followed with the computer. It is explained in the documentation that Windows Xp can be be installed on an empty disk form that Cd.

Finally I choose this method since there were so many installed programs and I want a minimalistic restored computer.



XP's security doesn't know anything about DOS. If you're outside of Windows, you can do as you choose to the HD and XP won't know anything about it.

Not from the DOS prompt or from the two DOS floppy disks I tried. There may be some problems with my floppy drive since it is soon 9 years old. I have done this many times on other computers so I normally agree with you.




You can only delete the main C: partition outside of Windows, and that for example can be done when booting from the XP CD.

No, reread my last post.



You can only delete the main C: partition outside of Windows, and that for example can be done when booting from the XP CD.

By downloading and installing the tools alphaomega mentioned on eg. the D drive (but that is still inside windows) or burned to a Cd?

[kgun]

I mentioned the problem here

http://www.diskusjon.no/index.php?showtopic=1287195&st=0

with a link to this thread and got this simple question.

"So your goal is to empty the C partition and reinstal XP?"

Yes it is.

What is the difference between deleting and emptying the C partition?

Emptying sounds best to me if that is possible without deletion.


You must remove partition. The record of your OS is stored in Master Boot Record, which does not get removed with format.
Hm.

Will the record of the OS be removed by emptying the C partition?

[deepsand]

Deleting a partition means that record of its existence is removed from the MBR; the space once assigned to it is now re-available.

In your case, you do not want to delete the C: partition, but re-format it as an NTFS partition.

[kgun]

In your case, you do not want to delete the C: partition, but re-format it as an NTFS partition.
Exactly, but how since it can not be done from the Product Recovery CD since there seemingly is some garbage from the last Windows installation that I don't get rid of so I get this:



Windows Setup.

Setup can not continue because the version of Windows on your computer is newer than the version on the CD.

message.

Funny. No problem earlier with less complete installations of Windows Xp.

[deepsand]

Have you a diskette or CD with FDISK on it?

[kgun]

Not as I remember. I have a lot of old floppy disks so I shall not exclude it.

I got this

To empty the disk it is best to delete MBR.

Make an UBCD. Choose "File System tools". Choose "Partitition" and choose MBRWORK. Choose 4 "Reset MBR".

message from the Norwegian forum.

The bolded terms are greek to me. Can anybody explain?

[Clint1]

I think there is a misunderstanding here. That is exactly what I want. A clean disk with nothing on it.
Ok, but to do that you need the full OS CD, or, any formatting tools you can get from the 'net. But I don't know if a restore/recovery XP CD can install on a blank drive. Of course the full OS CD does.



Why I ask (I am not in a hurry since I have my Laptop). Let us say that C is partitioned into C and E. I thought that when I deleted the C partitition I would simultaneously delete E or can C be deleted individually and Windows restored from the recovery Cd?
No such thing as "C being partitioned into C AND E". C is a stand alone partition, it is what it is, as is with E. Like I said, when you delete a partition it's totally useless at that point and everything on it is lost. You have to recreate that partition or format (it) all over again. Deleting one partition does not affect another.



Then the tools on the links posted by alphaomega shoud be fine or?
If you mean the link to "Partition Magic", it should also do formatting as well. I use "EASEUS Partition Master Home Edition", it's awesome, and free. There's several free partitioning, partition recovery, (and other useful tools) on their download page: http://www.easeus.com/download.htm I'm sure they'd be useful to you. With what I use I was able to resize (and delete and restore) a "phantom" partition that was created when I did a restore from an old HD to a newer one that was bigger. It was a clone of a partition and it of course was a different size than the new HD's partition so some "odd space" was left over. I was able to add that space to C: in seconds on-the-fly without any problems.



The recovery Cd was the only system restore Cd that followed with the computer. It is explained in the documentation that Windows Xp can be be installed on an empty disk form that Cd.
Ok. But I don't think you can get to an empty disk by using that restore CD. Not sure, I never used them because of their limitations.



Not from the DOS prompt or from the two DOS floppy disks I tried. There may be some problems with my floppy drive since it is soon 9 years old. I have done this many times on other computers so I normally agree with you.
Sure you can, so it must be the program(s) you have on the floppy, or the floppy. From DOS, MS-DOS, PC-DOS, pseudo-DOS, Windows is obviously not loaded, therefore it can't "control" nor "complain" about anything. Now there of course may be some types of software you put on a floppy, that operates outside of Windows, that will of course give a warning of some kind if you're about to delete Windows. But that's not goind to happen with a plain vanilla DOS OS floppy or standard typical formatting floppy.



You can only delete the main C: partition outside of Windows, and that for example can be done when booting from the XP CD.
No, reread my last post.
:confused: You lost me there. Yes, it can be done outside of Windows, and the XP CD is an example of one way. There may be a way to forcibly delete the main C partition while in Windows, like for example some very fatally destructive software, but the PC would immediately lock-up and I guess go to a blank screen, or only display what was in the RAM at the time, because, like I said Windows (and everything else on the partition) will be gone.



By downloading and installing the tools alphaomega mentioned on eg. the D drive (but that is still inside windows) or burned to a Cd?
That program, or ones I mentioned will do it. It doesn't matter to where you download it, or where you put it. But like I've been saying you can't delete the C: partition while in Windows, and, you don't need any special software to it; the XP CD can do it if you want (and again I don't know if a restore CD can do it), or a DOS floppy for example.

[Clint1]

I got this

To empty the disk it is best to delete MBR.

Make an UBCD. Choose "File System tools". Choose "Partitition" and choose MBRWORK. Choose 4 "Reset MBR".

message from the Norwegian forum.

The bolded terms are greek to me. Can anybody explain?
That's not exactly correct. You don't need to delete the MBR, which is the Master Boot Record. Look at my post #39 above and that should answer your questions. UBCD: http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ Another site you may find very helpful: http://bootdisk.com/

[kgun]

That's not exactly correct. You don't need to delete the MBR, which is the Master Boot Record. Look at my post #39 above and that should answer your questions. UBCD: http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ Another site you may find very helpful: http://bootdisk.com/

I have such a CD. My answer on the Norwegian forum.

Norwegian to English translation by Google translate and minor edits by me (good enough for this purpose).

My son once made an Ultimate Boot CD 4.1 here: http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ (older version probably - UBCD410).

In the setup + Advanced BIOS Feature + First Boot Device

I choose the CD. Is it enough?

Quote from the CD description:



When you boot up from the CD, a text-based menu will be displayed, and you will be able to select the tool you want to run. The selected tool actually boots off a virtual floppy disk created in memory.


It's not, then this is where the fault lies?

But during startup, it is confirmed that it is booting from the CD. Whether I start from this CD or the recovery CD I get the error message as described above, when I select "Install Windows XP"from the Recovery CD.



To clear the drive completely it is best to delete the MBR.


Viewing your signature this seems to be your speciality. Should it be done from the Boot CD. Can this be corrupt, so I must make a new one?

I am studying your first thorough answer.

[kgun]

Ok. But I don't think you can get to an empty disk by using that restore CD. Not sure, I never used them because of their limitations.
I did it earlier and as far as I remember there was an option to format the C drive and reinstall on the same drive.



Sure you can, so it must be the program(s) you have on the floppy, or the floppy. From DOS, MS-DOS, PC-DOS, pseudo-DOS, Windows is obviously not loaded, therefore it can't "control" nor "complain" about anything. Now there of course may be some types of software you put on a floppy, that operates outside of Windows, that will of course give a warning of some kind if you're about to delete Windows. But that's not goind to happen with a plain vanilla DOS OS floppy or standard typical formatting floppy.

There can be hardware failures. But the computer is still old and fast. On the internet it is much faste than my newer and much more powerful laptop, since it is cabled, while the LapTop is on a wireless connection to the inernet via the same router.

Thank you for a Good and thorough answer.

Switching between this problem and studying

Webdevelopment with Python and Django. Hopefully it can be combined with C / C++.

[kgun]

Conclusion so far - unless other members have another opinion:

There are hardware (boot sector) failures, so I think I drop the format and reinstallation.

The computer is good enoug for simple tasks and after I have deleted almost every program it is relatively fast.

I have reformatted and reinstalled operating systems many times before. I partiticioned my PSII hardrive in n logical disks, installed OSII on one and windows on another. Then I did a low level format and deleted everyting and installed Windows from scratch.

There were no problems. This problem is not the same.

(So I could download a minimum Linux version, format and reinstall and try to reformat and reinstall Windows XP - I don't risk that since the computer may stop functioning).

I live with the garbage in the system and reinstall Xp upgrades when I am reminded of them.

I think I leave it as is since my strongest thought is that there are harware problems. Do you agree with me?

Hopefully the computer lasts until 10 Tb disks are standard and I can buy a new one.

Thank you all for contributing.

[kgun]

I mentioned the problem here

http://www.diskusjon.no/index.php?showtopic=1287195&st=0

with a link to this thread and got this simple question.

A solution may be found there, so use Google suggest from Norwegian to English if you wan't to follow the discussion there.

[deepsand]

I think I leave it as is since my strongest thought is that there are harware problems.
What sort of hardware problems are confirmed as being present?

[kgun]

What sort of hardware problems are confirmed as being present?

I have decided to do a full format and reinstall. The first time I did that before the days of SP2 and with my original keyboard I had no problems by doing everything from the Recovery Cd.

Then I changed to a wireless keyboard and did at least two format and reinstalls with some problems. I did not reckgnize that that may have been related to the wireless USB keyboard. By making a XP ultimate boot Cd, my son solved the problem with the last two (three?) reformat and reinstalls.

For a third time I have changed, now to a cabled USB key board. That can be the whole problem since the original key board is a PS II keyboard. It is known, according to a member on the Norwegian forum, that some computers ignore the Recovery / Boot Cd when you use an USB key board. I have not had time to test that yet.

I talked to my son on the phone and he agreed that the new cabled USB keyboard that I got as a Christmas gift can be the whole problem. If that don't solve the problem he suggests that I make Ultimate XP boot diskettes and boot from the floppy drive.

See the Norwegian thread above if you need further information.

[kgun]

Hårek on the Norwegian forum was absolutely correct. The USB key borads were the problem. I have no problem when the old original PS II key board is plugged into the computer. No need for an ultimate boot CD. Everything can be formatted and installed from the Recovery CD.

Thank you all for your input that can be useful for other members and problems. The old key board solved mine.

The only thing that could have been better is an updated Recovery CD with SP II + SP III + ... +.

After all it take some hours to reformat and reinstall what you want. Now I look forward to a "new computer from the stone age".

Now when I know that I have to plug in the old key board on later spring cleaning of my computer, it will be much easier.

To get a raw new C drive, I had to delete the old C partition and then recreate it. That operation takes a few seconds. After that is done I can install Windows Xp on the new formatted C drive.

[deepsand]

So, it sounds as if your E: partition and its data remain intact.

[kgun]

Yes definitely. And now I have a raw factory configured C partition. Windows Xp was reinstalled on that partition while I wrote some posts here. It takes longer time to reinstall needed programs and configure the system.

[deepsand]

Excellent.

I had visions of you wiping the MBR, thereby loosing the E: partition and its contents.

Odd that USB device drivers should not infrequently be the root cause of seemingly unrelated problems. Was the one that affected you a Plug-and-Play device?

[kgun]

Odd that USB device drivers should not infrequently be the root cause of seemingly unrelated problems. Was the one that affected you a Plug-and-Play device?
Not in the sense that I could change keyboard while logged in. I did not even try that. I shut down the computer, changed keyboard and restarted the computer. Now I have reinstalled the new USB keyboard, but keep the old for a new spring cleaning in 2013. I always promise myself to be minimalistic, but as programs are needed, I install them. I don't intend to install Word or Acobat reader. Everything that is written is either written on the web or my newer laptob with 4 Gb memory.

I bought the computer in 2002. With two screens, Xp and 1 GB memory it is still relatively fast for internet surfing. Now after reformatting and reinstalling it is good enough for at least two additional years.

Do you think I can install FF 4, Opera 11, and Chrome on the computer without problems? I have I.E 6.0 for reasons like http://www.favorez.com/ (you can copy your I.E favourites to an XML file - mine is more than 6 Mb) and the ease of handling links. I willl use Opera link to syncronize favourites across computers.

Former experience with more than two browsers on the same system is not too good.

[deepsand]

I typically run dozens of IE6/FF3 or FF4 windows, often with over 70 tabs at a time, along with multiple instances of WE, Excel spreadsheets, remote connections to 2 to 5 other machines, and assorted other applications, under XP Pro SP3, on 2 machines each with a AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5200+ processor with 2 GB Ram. Ram gets a bit tight at time, so that page swapping slows me down, but it only rarely breaks.

Subject to the caveat that I can't speak re. Chrome - had so many problems with it that I completely removed it - I'd say that you should be fine with 4 GB.

[kgun]

I have only 1 Gb on the old stationary that I just formatted. I have just installed FF 4 beta. It is fast, but it has problems with the Norwegian characters, Æ, Ø, Å. In addition I am not able to rename favourites folders. Right clicking don't function and the option to organize favourites is not so good in this Beta version. The only way I can rename a folder is by making the new folder, copy all the favourites in the old folder to the new and delete the old folder. I think this will be fixed in the first 4 version.

So now I will install Opera that I have good experience with the last years. Since I had problems with Chrome too, I will use your advice and not install that browser now.

Since you have so many windows open simultaneously, have you tried tab stacking ("tabs on tabs") in Opera?;)

[Clint1]

I have decided to do a full format and reinstall. The first time I did that before the days of SP2 and with my original keyboard I had no problems by doing everything from the Recovery Cd.

Then I changed to a wireless keyboard and did at least two format and reinstalls with some problems. I did not reckgnize that that may have been related to the wireless USB keyboard. By making a XP ultimate boot Cd, my son solved the problem with the last two (three?) reformat and reinstalls.

For a third time I have changed, now to a cabled USB key board. That can be the whole problem since the original key board is a PS II keyboard. It is known, according to a member on the Norwegian forum, that some computers ignore the Recovery / Boot Cd when you use an USB key board. I have not had time to test that yet.

I talked to my son on the phone and he agreed that the new cabled USB keyboard that I got as a Christmas gift can be the whole problem. If that don't solve the problem he suggests that I make Ultimate XP boot diskettes and boot from the floppy drive.

See the Norwegian thread above if you need further information.
Some motherboards won't work in DOS (or any OS outside of Windows) with USB devices unless something called "Legacy USB" is enabled in the BIOS. If a mobo's BIOS does not have that option, then any Legacy support could be either on, or off. If "off", then certain USB devices will be flaky, or not work at all. Having Legacy USB on can also lead to OS instability, especially when overclocking.

Legacy mode support allows devices to function in an operating environment that is not USB-aware. For example, legacy mode support for a USB keyboard and mouse resides in the system BIOS and presents the keyboard and mouse data via the port 60h/64h/IRQ1/IRQ12 interface.

That's another reason why I don't care much for USB devices, I much prefer FireWire if device-available, and PS/2 keyboards and mice because they are far less prone to any problems. Yet the idiot mobo manufacturers are trying to totally phase out PS/2 connectors and FireWire is also becoming a rarity. USB has a lot of overhead and consumes far more resources than it should, is picky about the right drivers and OS or SP in order to get USB2.0 speeds (and now USB3). I don't understand why there are USB flash drives, yet no 1394a nor 1394b flash drives. Contrary to popular myth, although USDB2.0 is theoretically faster, 1394a FireWire (FW400) is faster than USB2.0 in actual use, and in benchmarks. 1394b FW800 is a lot faster than that. I've always used FW cases for external storage and I recently got a 1394b enclosure and I really like it. (Of course USB3.0 is faster than that, but tests are very inconsistent and it appears it's not ready for prime-time at this point).

[deepsand]

Since you have so many windows open simultaneously, have you tried tab stacking ("tabs on tabs") in Opera?;)
Is that similar to FF 4's Panorama tab organizing function?

FF 4 New Features (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/beta/features/#feature-apps-tab)

Organize your tabs (http://videos-cdn.mozilla.net/serv/firefox4beta/grouptabs.webm)

[kgun]

Some motherboards won't work in DOS (or any OS outside of Windows) with USB devices unless something called "Legacy USB" is enabled in the BIOS. If a mobo's BIOS does not have that option, then any Legacy support could be either on, or off. If "off", then certain USB devices will be flaky, or not work at all. Having Legacy USB on can also lead to OS instability, especially when overclocking.

Hårek on the Norwegian forum mentioned "Legacy USB" that I don't have on my system.


That's another reason why I don't care much for USB devices, I much prefer FireWire if device-available, and PS/2 keyboards and mice because they are far less prone to any problems.
This cabled USB key board is my third key board on this computer. The fourth will be a PS/2 keyboard if they are still on the market.


Regarding speed. I have thought of the following:
The C partition is 50 Gb. I could have split that in two that I think is enough for the OS and the programs and code I need. I think I will do that on the next format and reinstall.
Why should I ever need SP II and SP III? Security is not a concern. The original installation is good enough for my needs. Then it will also be much faster to reformat and reinstall.
I think I will turn off auto update.;-)

[kgun]

Is that similar to FF 4's Panorama tab organizing function?

I don't know that function sice I have only used FF 4 Beta for one day.

Opera Tab Stacking imply that you can drag tabs to other tabs and as such group pages into semantic / natural groups: Finance, Economics, General News, Security, Python, Django, C++, C ... and so on.

[deepsand]

I don't know that function sice I have only used FF 4 Beta for one day.

Opera Tab Stacking imply that you can drag tabs to other tabs and as such group pages into semantic / natural groups: Finance, Economics, General News, Security, Python, Django, C++, C ... and so on.
I've not yet tried it on FF 4; but, from the demo, it seems that the two are very much alike.

[deepsand]

Why should I ever need SP II and SP III? Security is not a concern.
While I don't recall the specifics, I do know that SP2 was much more than just a consolidation of security patches; and, that I was much more pleased with XP following installing SP2.

[kgun]

Then I can compare. Those two browsers seem to become more similar since Opera has now also opened for extensions:

http://my.opera.com/chooseopera/blog/2010/10/14/opera-11-will-have-extensions (How is the obious security aspects handled)?

[kgun]

While I don't recall the specifics, I do know that SP2 was much more than just a consolidation of security patches; and, that I was much more pleased with XP following installing SP2.
Personally I did not reckonize a big difference. I have SP2 on my hard drive. It takes nearly an hour to install if I remember correctly. Do you know explicitely if the SP2 refactoring make windows faster and more efficient?

In stead of installing more components, I would prefer a custom install with less code and tools.

[deepsand]

Then I can compare. Those two browsers seem to become more similar since Opera has now also opened for extensions:

http://my.opera.com/chooseopera/blog/2010/10/14/opera-11-will-have-extensions (How is the obious security aspects handled)?
Don't know about Opera. As for Mozilla, see

Firefox Extension Development Tutorial :: Security (http://www.rietta.com/firefox/Tutorial/security.html) and

Security Center (http://www.mozilla.org/security)

[deepsand]

Personally I did not reckonize a big difference. I have SP2 on my hard drive. It takes nearly an hour to install if I remember correctly.
Depends on the download speed, and the platform. I only recall that installing SP2 on a Dell Dimension, w/ XP Home, and a Dell OptiPlex, w/ XP Pro, took less than an hour.


Do you know explicitely if the SP2 refactoring make windows faster and more efficient?
Objectively, no, as didn't run any before and after benchmarks.

[kgun]

Don't know about Opera.



What about extension security?

By installing a extension, you trust the developer and his work. All extensions posted in the repository are checked, so they don't contain any harmful code or any tracking without the user's consent. In the alpha, extensions are not allowed to read from secure HTTPS tabs, although we are looking into how we can allow this without compromising security in the future. In the end, there are no guarantees when you install third-party extensions.
Source: http://my.opera.com/chooseopera/blog/2010/10/21/introducing-opera-extensions



The next try was to launch Opera with the URL to the extension. There is a security warning that the extension may be a security risk, but after a click on proceed nothing was installed at all.
Source: http://dev.opera.com/forums/topic/835652

My personal advice has always been:

Don't use a browser with installed third party extensions for online shopping and logging into sensitive sites like your bank account.

[deepsand]

Mozilla does have a mechanism for blocking FF extensions that are found to be security risks from functioning.

[kgun]

Mozilla does have a mechanism for blocking FF extensions that are found to be security risks from functioning.
But if you use your browser for online shopping and logging into sensitive accounts, it can be too late when it is discovered that an extension is a security risk.

Even if Opera claim


All extensions posted in the repository are checked, so they don't contain any harmful code or any tracking without the user's consent.I would personally not trust any such claim from any company. My advice to a online shopper is written in red in my former post.

[Clint1]

Hårek on the Norwegian forum mentioned "Legacy USB" that I don't have on my system.

This cabled USB key board is my third key board on this computer. The fourth will be a PS/2 keyboard if they are still on the market.
Something I forgot to mention is that newer wireless USB keyboards may not work well with Legacy USB (if it's always on/supported with no way to change it) if they use some kind of wireless technology like BlueTooth, etc. Even though USB protocol speed is not an issue with a USB keyboard, they may need a non-Legacy USB port to function properly due to their type of connectivity. (And if that's the case they probably won't work in DOS).

You should be able to find a USB>PS/2 adapter. They are made for mice, but they are harder to find for keyboards and they are not the same; one with a mouse icon won't work for a keyboard (unless it's otherwise specified).



Regarding speed. I have thought of the following:
The C partition is 50 Gb. I could have split that in two that I think is enough for the OS and the programs and code I need. I think I will do that on the next format and reinstall.
Note that anytime a (conventional mechanical) HD is partitioned, any partitions after C: will be slower. "C" will be at the outer portion of the platter which has the highest rotational linear read/write speed. As you move in towards the spindle, performance degrades. You can see this by using a HD benchmarking program that shows performance across the entire HD with graphical representation showing results (like HDTune). MB/sec, IOPS, etc., will drop as the graph shows, as testing moves towards the spindle. You can see this in this screenshot: http://i56.tinypic.com/6rmqle.png

You can also see this by using a benchmarking program that does not use graphical results (like CrystalDiskMark, PCMark, etc.), and testing each partition on a HD. You'll see that C: will generally give the best results. (But rarely if it's overloaded by the OS and lots of programs, and fragmented, it may be about the same or even little less depending on the test. Best way is to do the tests on a partitioned extra HD where the first partition won't be used by the OS).

So this is something to keep in mind to decide what you want on latter partitions after C:.



Why should I ever need SP II and SP III? Security is not a concern. The original installation is good enough for my needs. Then it will also be much faster to reformat and reinstall.
I think I will turn off auto update.;-)
XP won't support USB2.0, you need at least......I think it's SP1a. ?? Maybe SP2, can't remember now. So you need to at least install the SP that gives you USB2.0. (Some sites say SP1, some say SP2!)

I no longer install any satan-spawned M$ updates. I have had countless horror stories (as millions of others also have) regarding their updates ruining something on a PC. I will no longer be, and I refuse to be, one of M$'s "test subjects" for their patches. Usually, usually, an SP will have those patches that needed patches that needed patches to FIX THEM so they would not ruin a PC. But that is not always the case, because there are SP's that will ruin a PC for many. Install at your own risk.

Furthermore, 99% of their patches are for theoretical problems, which have never been exploited in the wild. You can see this on any of their IT update/patch pages by expanding the + trees and looking at the FAQ's. Also, of the remaining few that have been exploited in the wild, most of those are mitigated by things like a firewall, higher security settings, etc. So that leaves a very very tiny amount of updates that are actually needed. Yet they are many that will keep auto updates on all the time and allow M$ to automatically dump their buggy "BETA" crap on their PC's.

[kgun]

Thank you for an excellent answer. Your posts are always interesting reading.

I have installed the new USB keyboard and it functions. I don't have a clue wheter it is USB 1 or 2. I almost never take the time to read hardware manuals. I have enough with software. An USB adapter? Not as long as I don't need it. The fourth key board will as explained above be a cabled PS/2 key board. No more wireless key board for me. My second was a wire less keyboard that I got as a present, the same as the third I got for Christmas. I had nothing but trouble with the MS wireless keyboard.

So the factory installation function excellent, and my computer is faster than ever. I don't use auto update any longer, and will not install a single SP upgrader before I need it. This message is written on my Vista powered laptop. Vista have a good indexing and disk search functionality. Hopefully, when I buy my third computer, Windows 8 64 bit OS will be available. Windows 8 will be arm powered and run on mobile platforms.

Sooner than upgrading to SP2 and SP3 I will delete some default factory installed programs. When configuring a computer why are there not three alternatives. Default minimalistic installation. Default maximum installation and a third custom option.

What I may need however is: http://www.cygwin.com/ that contains an emulation layer as well as a set of command line tools familiar to unix users. I may need that since I may prefer Python + Django web development to PHP development on this computer. Do any of the readers of this thread have an experience with CygWin? If yes, I am very interesting in feedback.

How does it function? Does it slow down your computer or even crash it?
How is it compared to a pure Linux Pc?

[Clint1]

Thank you for an excellent answer. Your posts are always interesting reading.
You're welcome, and thanks.



I have installed the new USB keyboard and it functions. I don't have a clue wheter it is USB 1 or 2. I almost never take the time to read hardware manuals. I have enough with software.
Again, just to clarify, a wired USB keyboard is "always" going to be USBx, that is USB1.x through USBx because speed is of no issue. It's when they are wireless that the possibility arises that the wireless connectivity method may have a more specific need, which could possibly have something to do with Legacy USB needing to be off (or even possibly on for that matter).



An USB adapter? Not as long as I don't need it.
You said you want a PS/2 keyboard, and you can have one with a USB keyboard using a USB>PS/2 adapter, which will enable you to use the USB keyboard on a PS/2 port.



The fourth key board will as explained above be a cabled PS/2 key board. No more wireless key board for me. My second was a wire less keyboard that I got as a present, the same as the third I got for Christmas. I had nothing but trouble with the MS wireless keyboard.
I've never had any (lasting) problems with wireless devices. They are sensitive to EM fields, so if you have an issue move the receiver around, and try moving it both closer OR farther away. Right now I use a Microsoft XVA-00001-B and like it Ok, the only thing I don't like about it is the keys are more recessed into it, they don't stick out as high up as other keyboards. (I needed an ergonomic keyboard really bad because I have SERIOUS carpel tunnel and RSI. :cry:).



Sooner than upgrading to SP2 and SP3 I will delete some default factory installed programs. When configuring a computer why are there not three alternatives. Default minimalistic installation. Default maximum installation and a third custom option.
Well I guess you have all 3 with a custom installation, which any install should be. There are options sort of like that when you install, and you can go to the Control Panel > Add or Remove Programs, then at the left "Add/Remove Windows Components" and then check or uncheck anything you want--which could give you a "minimalistic" or "maximum" approach.



What I may need however is: http://www.cygwin.com/ that contains an emulation layer as well as a set of command line tools familiar to unix users. I may need that since I may prefer Python + Django web development to PHP development on this computer. Do any of the readers of this thread have an experience with CygWin? If yes, I am very interesting in feedback.

How does it function? Does it slow down your computer or even crash it?
How is it compared to a pure Linux Pc?

Sorry, not familiar with that nor Linux. ;)

[Clint1]

Well I guess you have all 3 with a custom installation, which any install should be. There are options sort of like that when you install, and you can go to the Control Panel > Add or Remove Programs, then at the left "Add/Remove Windows Components" and then check or uncheck anything you want--which could give you a "minimalistic" or "maximum" approach.
You need to check out backup software that doesn't just do a mirror or clone backup, but that also backs up Windows settings. That way if you need to reformat and start all over for whatever reason, you can then run the restore (of settings or 'system state') and have things the way you previously wanted them, both with XP settings and program settings (of course the programs have to be first installed). Also look into the "Files and Settings Transfer Wizard" on XP which will do a similar thing, and XP's Native Backup which will do a full backup/restore or settings/system state. These are under Programs > Accessories > System Tools.

[kgun]

You need to check out backup software that doesn't just do a mirror or clone backup, but that also backs up Windows settings.
Will Northon Ghost do that?


Also look into the "Files and Settings Transfer Wizard" on XP which will do a similar thing, and XP's Native Backup which will do a full backup/restore or settings/system state. These are under Programs > Accessories > System Tools.
That is the easiest way to restore the computer, but it does not clean the disk and the registers. I have done that many times.

Run + msconfig + ...

is another fast way to speed up your computer e.g by removing some programs that are automatically started.

If I employed an It person the first test (s)he would get is how fast (s)he was able to remove my C partition, restore it and reinstall as I have explained at the end of this thread.

Why fear about


Hackers when you have nothing to hide on that internet connected computer8-)?
Virus when you can remove some from the start up (Run + config + ... :roll:
Use system restore:lol:?
As a last option - reset a raw factory installation while you take your dinner:wink:?

[kgun]

Is that similar to FF 4's Panorama tab organizing function?

FF 4 New Features (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/beta/features/#feature-apps-tab)

Organize your tabs (http://videos-cdn.mozilla.net/serv/firefox4beta/grouptabs.webm)

Now I see how it is done in FF 4 by clicking the square in the upper right corner.

I personally prefer the way it is done in Opera. Example. I wan't an Adobe tab group containing



http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20101024005144/en/Adobe-Extends-AIR-Applications-Screens
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flexsdk_hero/videos/
http://www.adobe.com/

I simply drag the first and the second tag over the third and I have an adobe tag groub indicated by the Tab Group Button and the correct name on the group. When you want to expand or collapse the group, you click the Tab Group Button. To my knowledge there is no limit to the number of tab groups.

FF 4's Panorama tab organizing function is as far as I can see it more similar to Opera's speed button (tabbing) that has been there for years. I have not tested it but it may be possible to combine the speed button with tab groups, that is a third dimension.

When you hover over a tab group, the individual pages are displayed, so you don't need to click the Tab Gorup Button to open all the individual tabs. In the hover over view, you only click the tab you want to open in that specific group.

A further / future functionality I can think of would be via Opera Unite or Opera Link to combine tab groups from different computers via the internet or via your network. In that way an organization can for each employer have m common and n individual tab groups. When you get used to it, tab grouping is more user friendly / faster than using your favourites (even shared via Opera Link).

[Clint1]

Will Norton Ghost do that?
If of course will clone/mirror, "ghost" anything as its name implies. I haven't used it in a long time so I don't remember if it has a settings backup or system state backup. It of course is great if your PC gets destroyed, unusable, then you just do a restore on a blank or current HD and everything goes back to the day the backup was created.



That is the easiest way to restore the computer, but it does not clean the disk and the registers. I have done that many times.
The MS full backup will. But the other methods are not designed for that, they are only for restoring settings on an otherwise working (or sort of working) PC.



Why fear about


Hackers when you have nothing to hide on that internet connected computer8-)?
Virus when you can remove some from the start up (Run + config + ... : roll:
Use system restore LOL ?
As a last option - reset a raw factory installation while you take your dinner:wink:?

:confused:

1. Because it has nothing to do with anything to hide, it has to do with your PC becoming unusable and ruined! Malware isn't just "data miners", they are also destructive!

2. Few types of malware can found in MSCONFIG's startup area! They are much more "clever" than that. If you find malware on your PC, and it's under the startup tab, and all you have to do to clean the PC is uncheck the box, consider yourself very lucky! Ironically that's the easiest type of malware for anti-malware programs to detect.

3. Seriously? ;) But if you want to talk about XP's restore with regards to malware, there's a lot of malware that will infect the restore, so doing a restore will do nothing to get rid of the malware.

4. Sometimes that should be the first thing you do, since that can many times save you a lot of time trying to repair things.

[kgun]

4. Sometimes that should be the first thing you do, since that can many times save you a lot of time trying to repair things.
Especially now when I don't need an ultimate boot Cd.

Thank you again for additional valuable input.

[kgun]

I have turned off Auto update, so it is very fast to reinstall everything again, and I have also thought of doing it since there is something I would like to change again. It can be done while I take a meal. With the new minnimalism it is really fast.

What I have not told you is that the computer is not completely factory restored when the C partiticion is deleted and everything reinstalled.

There may be something in the boot sector / bios or whatever. I am not a hardware specialist. I have had the suspicion for years, and something happened when I visited a site (which I will not tell you here since I may be wrong) years ago. There is something with the file system in the Windows explorer. Here it is:


Start + Explore + A folder + View.
Sometimes I get a message that "Another person has access to a folder" so it can not be deleted.
Even if I close the folder + Windows explorer and reopens it, I have to restart my computer to delete the folder.

Today, when I logged into my computer my Key Board has changed from a Norwegian to an English without having done anything to change the settings yesterday. I know how to restore it to Norwegian. So my questions are:


Can there be something left after I deleted the partition and reinstalled everything?
What is the best port surveillance / scanning mechanism.
I have used the free tool from Trend Micro, but is there a better?

Off topic, because of Key Board problems:cool:

Not a single comment to this

http://www.webproworld.com/webmaster-forum/threads/106637-Some-Recent-Spam-and-AdSense-News-from-Google

thread so long;-):?:

[SteveGerencser]

1. Yup.. Just deleting the partition and remaking it does not actually clean the boot sector of the hard drive.. Especially if you are using a fast format rather than a long format.. Fast format only rewrites the fat tables..

2. Services can, and do, forget to release access to folders.. It's not a "huge" problem unless it happens every single time.. If you think it might be someone connecting through your net connection you can try unplugging the network cable.. That still isn't conclusive, but can be another clue..

3. Trend Micro is fine.. I also use Spybot Search and Destroy and Malware bytes..

[deepsand]

Setting aside the very simple boot viruses of the days of DOS diskettes, a boot virus requires storage external to the boot sector itself for the bulk of its code; that portion in the boot sector acts as no more than a loader for the portion stored elsewhere. A quick, i.e. logical format, will have effectively wiped out any portion of such that was stored in the C: partition.

As for the reported symptoms, all are commonplace, owing to causes other than malware. In fact, a well designed instance of malware will give no visual clues of its presence of the sort mentioned.

[SteveGerencser]

True, but we've written test samples where you could format the drive as many times as you like, as long as the boot sector loader remains it is smart enough to check for the full program, not see it, then trigger a launch and install from the internet.. Silas wrote some amazingly tight code for this just to prove that it could be done.. And what one person can do, others can replicate on their own..

But yes, I've seen all of these issues on clean machines as well..

[deepsand]

An very old trick is to reload a fresh copy, with a new process name, at boot time, and delete the old one, so as to show a different face.

[Clint1]

There may be something in the boot sector / bios or whatever. I am not a hardware specialist. I have had the suspicion for years, and something happened when I visited a site (which I will not tell you here since I may be wrong) years ago. There is something with the file system in the Windows explorer. Here it is:


Start + Explore + A folder + View.
Sometimes I get a message that "Another person has access to a folder" so it can not be deleted.
Even if I close the folder + Windows explorer and reopens it, I have to restart my computer to delete the folder.

Not sure what you mean by #1, is that a path you take, such as the Start button > (then) > you go to "Explore", then........what? You can't delete a folder that way? If so, what happens when you try it a different way? Is it just with that folder, or with all folders--and when using that method or any method?

Some folders (and files) are "protected" (for different reasons) and sometimes the only way then can be deleted is by right clicking them > Properties > Security (tab) > then try and change the Permissions to Allow.

There's a free program called Unlocker (http://download.cnet.com/Unlocker/3000-2248_4-10493998.html) that will usually allow you to delete files or folders that are locked. (When it can't it asks you to restart then it will delete it). (I don't understand that warning on that page, and of course it's a bad link! :confused:) But you can download it at other places.



Today, when I logged into my computer my Key Board has changed from a Norwegian to an English without having done anything to change the settings yesterday. I know how to restore it to Norwegian. So my questions are:


Can there be something left after I deleted the partition and reinstalled everything?
What is the best port surveillance / scanning mechanism.
I have used the free tool from Trend Micro, but is there a better?


Sounds like you could still have some kind of malware problem. Did you try all the free programs I suggested? SpyWare Terminator, SpyBot, HijackThis, MalwareBytes, and the free products from a-Squared, which has a great port monitor. They have a-Squared Free, Anti-Dialer, HiJackFree. http://www.emsisoft.com/en/software/antimalware/ They seemed to have screwed up their software and put it all into one package which means it probably sucks now! :twisted: Looks like Hijack Free may be here: http://www.hijackfree.de/de/

That tool from Trend is probably CWShredder which only scans for a few things, so it's very limited. (Only searches for CoolWebSearch variants).

[kgun]

@Steve
Noted, especially that you agree that Trend Micro is a good enough port scanner.

@deepsand
I am not sure I completely understood your answer, but don't use more time on this as long as the problem don't get worse.

@Clint1


Some folders (and files) are "protected" (for different reasons) and sometimes the only way then can be deleted is by right clicking them > Properties > Security (tab) > then try and change the Permissions to Allow.

Yes I know that.



Sounds like you could still have some kind of malware problem.
Yes, there can be some malware. But as long as it don't become worse, I don't do more about it.

Thank you all for the input. The keyoard problem is fixed. I don't format and reinstall another time unless this get worse. The computer is nearly as good as new.

As I have said auto update is turned off. The original installation is good enough so long.

[deepsand]

@deepsand
I am not sure I completely understood your answer, but don't use more time on this as long as the problem don't get worse.
Simply put, your observed issues are almost certainly not owing to malware.

Re. both an active post scanner and determining which process has a file locked, you might consider KACE's free Process Director for Windows (http://www.kace.com/products/freetools/process-director/).


Process Director for Windows unlocks a world of previously hidden and inaccessible system activity. It provides an integrated suite of advanced tools for viewing and manipulating active processes, threads, services and users. Through Process Director for Windows, administrators may gain a complete view and control over their processes, applications, services, devices, users and the entire Windows system. Helpful for troubleshooting application issues and other system activity, Process Director is a tool for investigating almost any Windows activity.


Provides a list of processes and services for which you can view details and even right click for more options such as the ability to suspend or terminate a process
Allows monitoring of active ports so you can see which applications are communicating over the network
Allows you to locate which processes may have hold of a specified file
Displays what dependencies exist in a specified DLL for troubleshooting purposes

[kgun]

Re. both an active post scanner and determining which process has a file locked, you might consider KACE's free Process Director for Windows (http://www.kace.com/products/freetools/process-director/).

Thank you deepsand.

Reminds me of some tools I used years ago, one called advanced process explorer (or similar) and the other named advanced program uninstaller that should be a better uninstaller than the windows uninstaller (the unistaller that comes with the program should theoretically be best since the program producer should know what is installed).

Is that tool the same as the advanced process explorer?

I agree with your that most probably malware was removed when the c-partitition was removed and reinstalled.

This thread has learned me one thing: Don't care about auto updates if security is not a concern and there are some new features you don't absolutely need. The old computer is mostly used to surf the internet with different browsers and collect links.

More than 2000 visitors to this thread. I have to update the thread if I get additional Windows related problems.

[deepsand]

Reminds me of some tools I used years ago, one called advanced process explorer (or similar) and the other named advanced program uninstaller that should be a better uninstaller than the windows uninstaller (the unistaller that comes with the program should theoretically be best since the program producer should know what is installed).

Is that tool the same as the advanced process explorer?.
Given that there have been a number of different "process explorers," I cannot give a definitive answer. Though I've tried several over the years, the only other that I still use is SysInternals, now part of Microsoft.

What I find particularly nice about the KACE product is that it allows one to have multiple different watch windows open simultaneously. For example, you can watch resource usage by process in one window, while simultaneously watching port activity in another.

KACE also has a number of other excellent free tools available, including a System Inventory Tool and a Secure Browser; see http://www.kace.com/products/freetools/ .

[Clint1]

.....Reminds me of some tools I used years ago, one called advanced process explorer (or similar) and the other named advanced program uninstaller that should be a better uninstaller than the windows uninstaller (the unistaller that comes with the program should theoretically be best since the program producer should know what is installed).
Yeah, you'd "think" it would be better, but they're not. They always leave garbage behind in the Registry, and not only that but sometimes they can't even remove all of the folders the program created. The only way you can be sure all of a program is removed, is to do an ERUNT restore point before you install it, then if you have to uninstall it do that, then do a restore. But of course everything (Registry wise) done after that point is lost, changed back. Or, find an uninstaller that actually works. But I would think for one to totally work it would have to be installed before the programs you potentially want removed. Otherwise it wouldn't know what all was changed. If installed programs used a "manifest" of sorts, which created a log of everything that was changed, that could be read by the uninstaller, that would work even if the uninstaller was installed after said programs.




This thread has learned me one thing: Don't care about auto updates if security is not a concern......
M$ updates "helps with security" in many cases by rendering your PC useless. So yeah, it can "help with security" that way--your PC is pretty secure......if you can't use it! Remember what I wrote earlier in this thread about M$ updates. (Last two paragraphs: http://www.webproworld.com/webmaster-forum/threads/105588-Windows-XP-Format-and-reinstall?p=546780&viewfull=1#post546780 )

[deepsand]

Installers are as much a problem as are uninstallers. Many of the former, particularly those effecting updates, leave the Registry Hive and/or File System littered with detritus.

[Clint1]

.....Many of the former, particularly those effecting updates, leave the Registry Hive and/or File System littered with detritus.
Yeah, not only that, "They always leave garbage behind in the Registry, and not only that but sometimes they can't even remove all of the folders the program created." :lol:

[kgun]

..., and not only that but sometimes they can't even remove all of the folders the program created." [/I]:lol:
That is what we call Spaghetti Programming.

I have noted it myself. The computer is excellent now, and more than good enough to surf the web and be filled up with malware. I repeat everything in a year or two.

Xp (default factory installation) + 1Gb memory + 2.7 MHhz processors + 200 Gb Storage.

More than good enough for me to solve my present programming tasks. My much more powerful laptop is used for other taks, C, C++, Python, Django, ....

Antivirus, I tried it for some months about 10 years ago. It is the biggest virus for us half professional formatters and reinstallers:roll::cool::roll:.