Hard To Start A New Social Site

[bartet]

I like the idea but with giants like FB and Twitter it seems harder and harder to pull people away to other social communities even if the other communities have similar functions and features. I just started a new social artist community site about three weeks ago: artistmatch.net and have a few members that I've been able to get from advertising on FB. Some have come back to interact but most have not returned, some have only joined to post a link back to FB :(

It's not easy keeping members loyal and coming back even if you have something good to offer, I guess I'll keep trying.... maybe your idea will help some! Any support or feedback is much appreciated :)

(Mod Note: Moved from http://www.webproworld.com/webmaster-forum/threads/78797-We-Should-Help-Each-Other-on-Social-Media-Sites to allow discussion.)

[KatyS]

Hi James, I like your Idea but with giants like FB and Twitter it seems harder and harder to pull people away to other social communities even if the other communities have similar functions and features. I just started a new social artist community site about three weeks ago: artistmatch.net and have a few members that I've been able to get from advertising on FB. Some have come back to interact but most have not returned, some have only joined to post a link back to FB :(

It's not easy keeping members loyal and coming back even if you have something good to offer, I guess I'll keep trying.... maybe your idea will help some! Any support or feedback is much appreciated :)
As one of the afflicted I'd point out that there's rather a lot of places for artists to interact with other artists online already (things that have the prospect of interaction with potential clients are more interesting IMO....). Though Saatchi Online is quite interesting in what it's trying to do, as it's now added a load of facebook type functionality, but it has also got the big 'gimmick' of the showdown competition to get people coming back and looking.

(have decided I haven't got the patience / am not friendly enough, to do social networking, even if it might help sales/traffic)

[claybutler]

I agree, there are already some very well established artist networking sites. Breaking into that is going to nearly impossible unless you pick a very tight niche and then provide things that can't be found anywhere else. Etsy comes to mind as a place that did that.

From a branding standpoint you're completely lacking. You can't just put a text logo at the top and expect it to fly. Same with the layout. Looks like a bad Facebook knockoff.

There is just no way to make it without a strong brand backed by strong value.

Even the dot net suffix is working against you.

Don't mean to rag on your project but you did ask and I think you need an honest answer instead of the "looks ok, good luck" comments one usually gets.

[compusolver]

The above posts are right on. By definition, "social" media sites are places were people want to interact with other people. A new site doesn't have the "other people" yet, thus they start in the hole. To try to dig out, consider focusing on a smaller niche - one that isn't yet being served by other social media. Then, perhaps you'll be able to slowly expand your focus to a wider niche, if that's the direction you decide to take.

Your site has to offer a benefit that outweighs the users' time/effort investment and that benefit must be significantly greater than other sites offer. There's no way you can do that without narrowing your niche.

[Gadget1969]

Bartet, I feel your pain. I've spent the past year building a development team for a social media site as well, earthsports.com. It is intended to bring anglers, guides, tournaments, marinas and manufacturers together in one community. Our membership is growing, but no where near the rate we had originally hoped. We've received a number of facebook members, but they don't seem to be too active. We do have some very active people though, so i think it just takes time. I've had a graphic design firm doing print and web for over 8 years now, and agree with Claybutlers point about your site needing a real logo. Otherwise, I think you are headed in the right direction. Great insight by compusolver as well. I would be appreciative of any insight (design , functional or marketing related) good or bad. Good luck with your site and thanks in advance to anyone else who chooses to post in!

[wmrobwl]

I think social networking sites are the new forums. They will be very niche specific and there will be room for a few players in each category. The real question is what is the best way to seed a social network? It seems like a new site with traffic will get members but they dont really do much after signing up.

[KatyS]

@Gadget - the forum posts on earthsports.com don't seem to appear in google (I tried some "quoted" phrases going back to Sept inc "carolina coastal tributary and surf fly fishing" in saltwater fly fishing) not sure if you've deliberately blocked it or if that is result of the 'Do you want to Join' screen coming up as first option...

would suggest that unless you had a reason to hide the content (some more political forums do to avoid acquiring trolls) ... that it'd be better to try to ensure forum posts are indexed - then if they come up on search for query about 'kayaks versus boats' or whatever people may join forum to enter discussion.

[soulcis]

the original poster said that his site's been up for 3 weeks... by internet's standards it's like saying 3 days. it takes a long time before search engines even notice that your site exists. when you start a new web venture you need to arm yourself with patience. have a focus and work hard. I don't believe that it's harder today than it was yesterday. if friendster, myspace, facebook were in that frame of mind they wouldn't have reached the peaks that they may have had at some point. not everybody is a facebook fan. facebook is gonna slow down. people are gonna start suffering from facebook fatigue. so you can narrow your focus and stay the course. if it will take 2 years be prepared. good luck!

[bartet]

Claybutler, thank you for your honest point of view. As far as the branding goes, I have that covered... I just recently changed the theme of the site to brighter colors since they were originally dark colors and made the site look like an underground site so I and haven't had the chance to place my logo on the site yet. As far as what you said about the logo "You can't just put a text logo at the top and expect it to fly" ... well, Facebook did so I'm not sure what to make of what you said. Concerning the dot net. I don't see why that would work against me when there's many successful sites with the dot net suffix. I think you have good points but not all. Thank you for your post!

Thank you Gadget, I appreciate your post... BTW, I do have a logo but I haven't had a chance to put it up yet.
Good luck with your site! :)

Compusolver, thanks for your post... I will keep your advice in mind. :)

Thank you Soulcis, I'm not trying to get only comments that say keep it up everything will work out but I believe in what you wrote. I also think with hard work, dedication, a good niche and time, there could be a chance, not only for me but for anyone else to be successful on the web. I'll just have to keep fine tuning my site and find a good niche to keep members coming back. Thank you for your post. :)

[claybutler]

Claybutler, thank you for your honest point of view. As far as the branding goes, I have that covered... I just recently changed the theme of the site to brighter colors since they were originally dark colors and made the site look like an underground site so I and haven't had the chance to place my logo on the site yet. As far as what you said about the logo "You can't just put a text logo at the top and expect it to fly" ... well, Facebook did so I'm not sure what to make of what you said. Concerning the dot net. I don't see why that would work against me when there's many successful sites with the dot net suffix. I think you have good points but not all. Thank you for your post!

Facebook actually has a well thought out logotype. It's not just HTML text like yours. Plus Facebook was nearly the first serious platform for college students to socialize. That's a huge advantage. You're entering a very crowed market with big players. Also, I challenge you to find all the big dot nets. You won't find them. The reason a dot net is a problem is that it's a dot com world and always will be. Browsers default to dot coms. Everyone assumes a dot com unless you tell them otherwise. It also means that someone else owns the dot com version which means they could choose to weaken your brand very easily. Imagine if FaceBook or MySpace only owned the dot net version and some squatter owned the dot com version. What pain in the ass that would be. Branding is much more than changing colors and adding a logo. It's the entire package from your brand story, to your tagline, to the entire world and vernacular you create. When I'm at your site there is nothing that explains your value position, your differentiator, your secret sauce. Nothing in the words you use or how your user interface is organized tells me anything other than it's some kind of template you installed. Now granted, these things evolve over time, but you should start out with something. Did you write an executive summary yet? Do you have your elevator pitch? A flow chart? Even if you aren't seeking VC money these are very useful for establishing your vision and honing down your idea which is the foundation of a brand. I've done done this with my own start up as well as many others and you really need a clear mission statement. I should know right away when I go to your site that yes, this is clearly for me, or no, this is not for me. I just don't see that yet. Without that I think you will plateau early and then start a decline.

[williamc]

Facebook actually has a well thought out logotype. ... Branding is much more than changing colors and adding a logo.

Well stated. I see nothing that actually makes me want to remember this site. You need an identity that people are going to remember to have even a remote chance in social nowadays.


When I'm at your site there is nothing that explains your value position, your differentiator, your secret sauce. Nothing in the words you use or how your user interface is organized tells me anything other than it's some kind of template you installed. Now granted, these things evolve over time, but you should start out with something.

Here I will disagree. He should not start out with something that screams amateurish. Do it right, or don't do it at all. People talk, and they love talking about negatives more than positives. Your site needs to be professional and identifying before you ever open the doors to the public if you want to get anywhere with it. People are fickle, they will not only leave and never return, they will tell all their friends and family it it sucks as well.

If the OP can not come up with an 'identity' himself, then he needs to find someone who can and either hire them or partner with them.

[claybutler]

He should not start out with something that screams amateurish. Do it right, or don't do it at all..
True. That's what I meant about "something". A base level of branding and professionalism. I didn't mean it as in "anything". Just to clarify.

[rudyhiebert]

Remember well the days of the bulletin boards, they were useless compared to what happens today in any social 'net environment. My opinion is that starting with a blog and inviting participants is more useful more enjoyable. Then again, it depends on what you want to accomplish, which indecently could be "A" to "Z".

[mjtaylor]

Remember well the days of the bulletin boards, they were useless compared to what happens today in any social 'net environment. My opinion is that starting with a blog and inviting participants is more useful more enjoyable. Then again, it depends on what you want to accomplish, which indecently could be "A" to "Z".

I do remember BBs ... they were essentially a forum just like this one, an app I still find highly useful. :) In any case, I am not sure I get your point re: the OP.

[bartet]

Boy Claybutler, you sure had a mouth full to say LOL! If I would listen to people like you I would never end up doing anything. I'll give an example of what people used to say about my music when I started producing music in the 90's. I used to be a local DJ here in Miami but after about 10 years of playing music for other started producing music and some people would tell me that my music was no good, it needed this, it needed that, it was not hooky enough or it was just plain bad.... Well, with all the negative comments that people said about my music I went ahead and recorded my songs anyway and ended up with a club hit in 93 and a billboard club hit in 97 Top5 #2 spot for 6 weeks in a row, also worked big artist like Jon Secada and Gloria Estefan. Besides owning an artist community site dedicated to artist, I'm also a graphic designer with over 15 years in the field so, for you to say on the last post that my site is a "bad Facebook knockoff" is an insult. Just because my theme and layout has three columns and similar features to FB, it does not mean it was copied from facebook, many sites have three columns and light or pastel colors.

My conclusion is that you are definitely a FB lover and that you might think that FB is God's gift to the world. Remember how the saying goes, the bigger they are, the harder they fall!... anyway, just to let you know that there's a professional and courteous way to explain things but when you write negative comments the way you do, it's obvious you are not.

[williamc]

My conclusion is that you are definitely a FB lover and that you might think that FB is God's gift to the world. Remember how the saying goes, the bigger they are, the harder they fall!... anyway, just to let you know that there's a professional and courteous way to explain things but when you write negative comments the way you do, it's obvious you are not.

You posted here asking for opinions and advice, you got what you asked for. Just because clay had some bad things to say about your site, as did I and others, does not mean it is not something you should listen to. Personally, when people tell me bad things about sites I built, I take them to heart and ask others, and then make changes which improve my user experience, thus also improving retention and ROI. All advice is helpful. I do not see clay as being a FB lover, I see him as understanding what it is about facebooks logotype that 'works' and what it is about your logo that quite simply, sucks.

You can not just post a site then expect everyone to lie and say how great it is and that you will do wonderful things with it, unless it actually is awesome, which is not the case here. As stated earlier, I see nothing that would want to make me stay on the site more than a few seconds. I would surely never return to it. So now you have a choice, make it better, or whine and cry about bad comments, do nothing, and fail. That is all on you.

Be happy I am in kinder, gentler mode right now, because generally when someone who has asked for opinions spits and hisses at people for actually giving them one, would not get a very nice, or thought out reply from me.

[claybutler]

If I would listen to people like you I would never end up doing anything.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here but you learned the wrong lesson from your musical success.

Let's review:

10 years DJ experience
Worked hard and leveraged that experience to make a club hit in 1993
Worked hard for another four years, building upon everything you've learned, to have another club hit 1997

The lesson I get is that someone who works their butt off and has a lot of previous experience in the field, can have some reasonable level of success in a niche market that relies on a constant influx of new content to survive and has no switching costs (ie.there is no cost to the consumer to choose your song over another)

However, you learned that anything is possible and not to listen to the naysayers.

If you approached your social networking site like you did your music you would not be getting the feedback you are getting now.

Social networks have a high cost to switching combined with a high investment from the new user as social networks rely on a critical mass for them to work. Early adopters are going to have to have incredible faith that investing time on your site will result in rewards that can't get anywhere else. If you sign up for Etsy, FB or DeviantArt the user receives instant rewards as their social ecosystems are deep and well populated. However for someone to switch from investing from DeviantArt to say your site, requires a great investment of time as well as the loss of rewards that come from investing in their current DeviantArt profile.

These are the realities. There aren't opinions you can dismiss. There are entire fields of thought built around the ideas of switching costs, branding, rewards, loyalty, and user experience. This is the background of the feedback you are receiving. Yet you treat this information as if it's just another opinion. This is not a community college art class . We're not cranky fuddy-duddy teachers who just don't get your brilliance. You are attempting something very grandiose and came here looking for advice and you got it. And you got it from some very experienced people who think about this stuff 24/7. And you got it for free. That's a bargain.

[Susan Sharma]

A niche site with relevant content could work. Our website http://www.IndianWildlifeClub.com does get face book friends who register. But, people discovering the site through search, seem to do just as well. The like button on content also helps attracting face book loyalists.

Quote By definition, "social" media sites are places were people want to interact with other people. A new site doesn't have the "other people" yet, thus they start in the hole. To try to dig out, consider focusing on a smaller niche - one that isn't yet being served by other social media. Then, perhaps you'll be able to slowly expand your focus to a wider niche, if that's the direction you decide to take.

Your site has to offer a benefit that outweighs the users' time/effort investment and that benefit must be significantly greater than other sites offer. There's no way you can do that without narrowing your niche.[/QUOTE]

[OBR]

I agree. It is hard to make a splash when you are not offering anything new. I just updated our list of social media sites and we have around 600 of them. I suspect that only the best will survive.

[d4velucero]

Yes, it is hard but if you have a very good reason for them to join, maybe they will do so. Try to focus on just one specific group as a start and then it will slowly expand.

[thunderpoet]

I've stayed away from commenting here for a long time but, for some reason, I just can't help myself today on this issue of establishing a new social network.

There's something positive to be said for "cloning" another better known, more popular network site in the sense that people recognize how to USE your site. If clicking a link makes something happen that they have seen happen before on Facebook then you are hitching your wagon to a format that is easier to use by familiarity to new users.

No need to conduct a big tutorial on what you are offering.

However, in YOUR case, with artistmatch.net, I agree with the other posters in all their major assertions that if it is SUCCESS you want in the long run, then you have more work to do.

First of all--- ask yourself what IS "success"?

By what exacting parameters will you KNOW what is "success"? How do you now define what you want from artistmatch.net other than "fuzzies" like SHARING.

We could launch millions of "sharing" social sites every 24 hours if it is "SHARING" as our principal goal. Nebulous concepts such as "A social community of artists, musicians and creatives for sharing and networking with other artist, even dating."

As the other astute posters have concurred in this thread, you are following down a path that is so worn down by now that you would have to offer reciprocal benefits so UNIQUE to artistmatch.net that I am thirsting to join and contribute to your site immediately and repeatedly.

In my opinion "sharing" is done as a startup concept.

Ultimately, foundationally, most online concepts somewhere must involve "sharing" at some level, yes, but as THE CONCEPT itself you will need much more specificity and clarity in your purpose.

As a musician yourself and producer, beyond "sharing", what is it that just ONE group, musicians, need?

What can your online concept fulfill that not even Facebook fulfills for musicians in your area?

Start by thinking of needs in your area that may be common to musicians in your state, then the region.

Such as Gigs-- could your website be an online Booking agency?

If I am band, can I fill out a profile, post some videos, and offer you a percentage to represent me?

Can club owners sign up, get a password, and find acts easily categorized for viewing and comparison? Put them in a shopping cart and negotiate with You to book them after one audition?

I am NOT saying I just came up with a workable idea for you--- I am just pointing out that YOU should initiate a process of examining what one core group that you profess familiarity with actually NEEDS.

Be prepared to think way, way out there and don't cross off any ideas until you have thoroughly explored each on your list.

First think about what your clients, customers, members NEED--- what they NEED

And if you cannot fulfill a NEED then you can start thinking about what kind of frivolous time-wasting process you can engage them in that will seduce them into THINKING that they actually "need" what your online site offers.

Or figure out a clever TWIST on what Facebook is already offering musicians or artists.

Think about ways that a smaller website with specific apps might have an ADVANTAGE over a Facebook or other social media site.

But, as has been stated by posters, you need to put together the whole vision, the strategy, the benefits, the index card presentation, the elevator pitch...at least in your OWN HEAD if you are not pitching for capital.

And when I arrive at your website, yes, I better GET IT immediately.

Because right now your concept is lame...in the sense that you obviously did not do any original thinking. You have a "me too" concept that does not entice me away from the site you are obviously emulating.

You are going to have to bust your brain this time.

And don't be hesitant to bring in other media and image and marketing pros. Trade them favors, whatever, just get some more input, no matter how much you are the one-man band.

[williamc]

Green rep given for one heckuva post

[mjtaylor]

It was getting a little hot in here. I put the rest of the posts in quarantine.