Domain Name Dilema - Short Company Name VS. Long Keyword-Rich Domain???

[smeatz]

A client asked me this yesterday, and quite frankly, I'm not sure (from an SEO point of view at least) which way she should go...

"If I have my company name (RTR Designs) as a Domain name i.e. rtr.com.au because it is "short" enough to comfortably fit on my new business card... and then online have that same domain redirect to a long, keyword-rich, geo-targeted domain (that will be the focus of SEO) i.e. xtremegraphicdesignadelaide.com.au, would that work just as well from an SEO perspective? I'm trying to avoid squeezing the long domain name onto my business card and other stationery."

Thanking you all in advance for your replies :)

Smeatz

[SteveGerencser]

Short business name.. When it comes to domain names you should be thinking branding not keywords.. What happens if you never rank for those terms?? Or the search engines vanish tomorrow??

[Tiggerito]

A quick tip: If you want to advertise on mobile phones (with AdWords anyhow) you have to keep your domain name to 24 characters or less.

[smeatz]

Short business name.. When it comes to domain names you should be thinking branding not keywords.. What happens if you never rank for those terms?? Or the search engines vanish tomorrow??

Hey there, Steve. Thanks for your well-received response! Just a question specific to your own businesses but still on-topic re my client's question:

"I note that you have a parent company - SG Design Studio - and a series of peripherals that 'almost all have the primary keyword in their domain name'.

If, as you hypothetically suggest, Google disappears one day, where would that leave "SEOShop" and "AnimalCharms" (unless they are registered companies in their own right?).

As an alternative, could I perhaps suggest to my client that she changes her (yet to be registered company name from "ENLO Designs" to "ENLO Graphic Designs"...and at least that way, the primary Keyword AS WELL AS the company name are all bundled together without being too awkward?

I honestly do appreciate and understand where you are coming from... but it is highly confusing when SEO guys the world over are so divided in their opinions on whether to INCLUDE or NOT INCLUDE a primary keyword in a domain name.

Matt Cutts himself has more than once made it quite clear on his blog that "Google still takes a positive view towards keyword-relevant domain names"...and I simply am trying to understand the subtle exceptions to the rule when and where they apply.

Thanks again, Steve :)

Cheers

Smeatz

[smeatz]

A quick tip: If you want to advertise on mobile phones (with AdWords anyhow) you have to keep your domain name to 24 characters or less.

Hi Tigerito... just wondering something here. If you had a graphic design company in Adelaide, South Australia and 90% of your business came from the greater Adelaide area...and you had the chance to call your business "RNR Designs"... would you do so and still try and take the high ground on Google for "graphic design adelaide" WITHOUT including reference to this keyword in the company name and/or domain name?

Cheers

Smeatz

[weblover50]

I would stick with a short domain name. There are many more seo factors that needs to be worked on besides just have a keyword in the domain. Plus as you said it would be easier to print it on the business card and thus easy to remember as well.

[Tiggerito]

Hi Tigerito... just wondering something here. If you had a graphic design company in Adelaide, South Australia and 90% of your business came from the greater Adelaide area...and you had the chance to call your business "RNR Designs"... would you do so and still try and take the high ground on Google for "graphic design adelaide" WITHOUT including reference to this keyword in the company name and/or domain name?


If you look at my own domain name you will see I chose the keyword approach. I also have a one page website based on my business name incase I change my mind in the future. Both are over 24 characters and why I provided the tip!

Ideally you want your business name to also include some core keywords. If not, I agree to the general consensus that its more important that your domain reflects your business name more than keywords.

If your business name is a TLA then you do have the option to add a keyword if you can't get the basic domain. e.g. rnrdesigns dot com.au

On adding location info. I wouldn't do it in the domain unless you are certain you will only ever target Adelaide. There are many other ways to re-enforce and target locations.

p.s. I did some analysis of website businesses in Adelaide (http://seo-website-designer.com/Website-Designers-Adelaide-Best) and "graphic design adelaide" is a relatively popular search phrase, "design" is a very common word in all related searches.

[joncase]

I have used this exact strategy with a few of my clients. One domain name for printed matter only that the search engines will not see (unless someone has the toolbar) that merely forwards. A second domain name that is longer and where the site actually exists and is SEO'd with inbound links, etc. The client is then branded on their cards, letterhead, email signature, print ads, etc.
Jon

[chrisJumbo]

Do you believe branding or SEO is more important for the business? Although I think you can have both.

I think the URL in the domain is most effective for long-tail phrases that aren't very competitive. You could use short-url[dot]com/location_specific_services.htm and get basically the same effect.

In addition, current and potential clients may not like a redirect when they are expecting short-url[dot]com and may think something fishy is going on.

You may notice that our domain is keyword rich, but it actually is our company name and was purchased long before we knew what SEO was.

I would go with the branded, short url.
cd :O)

[smeatz]

I have used this exact strategy with a few of my clients. One domain name for printed matter only that the search engines will not see (unless someone has the toolbar) that merely forwards. A second domain name that is longer and where the site actually exists and is SEO'd with inbound links, etc. The client is then branded on their cards, letterhead, email signature, print ads, etc.
Jon

Thanks for that, Jon... but has your strategy clearly worked the way you wanted it to? Did any of these "keyword-rich domains" include geo-targeting / location-specific keywords?

Cheers

Smeatz

[ThurstyToad]

I would stick with the short and easy-to-remember domain name (rtr.com.au), especially if you can get it. :) Keywords in the domain name are WAY overrated, in my opinion. You can design specific pages and put your keywords in your page url, but the most important thing about a domain name is that is professional, and secondly, that it is easy to remember.

[smeatz]

Thanks so much, Tony... I have sent you a very longgggggg private message in response :)

Cheers

Smeatz

[williamc]

The short domain is going to be the most brandable, so that would be my choice. That said, why not use both? Get the long domain linked up and 301 it to the brandable name later.

[smeatz]

The short domain is going to be the most brandable, so that would be my choice. That said, why not use both? Get the long domain linked up and 301 it to the brandable name later.

Thanks William... re getting the long domain linked up and 301'ing it to the brandable name later:

1) At what point in time would you suggest doing such a thing? In other words, why later?

2) Would I initially optimise (e.g. point inbound links to) the brandable domain and then, once the long domain name was in place, simultaneously optimise that one as well?

Cheers

Smeatz

[melissaford2]

Some key reasons why you should choose a branded domain for your business URL:

* Its easy to remember
* Short and memorable
* Another way to put your brand in front of your customers
* Maintains brand consistency

[joncase]

Hi Smeatz,
In a word, yes. One of the sites is located at www florida-keys-homes-for-sale com/ (dots removed). But for print she uses www karen haack com. We made sure that visitors were well away they were at Karen's site by putting her name in the header and a photo. This is important, so visitors don't get confused or suspicious.
These are the top search terms she is found for:
florida keys homes for sale
homes for sale in florida keys
houses for sale in the florida keys
karen haack
homes for sale florida keys
homes for sale in the florida keys
florida keys lots for sale
florida keys real estate for sale
karenhaack.com

This is a highly competitive market, so creating a business name that would match a key word rich domain name is nearly impossible because all those domain names have been taken.

Jon

[SteveGerencser]

Hey there, Steve. Thanks for your well-received response! Just a question specific to your own businesses but still on-topic re my client's question:

"I note that you have a parent company - SG Design Studio - and a series of peripherals that 'almost all have the primary keyword in their domain name'.

If, as you hypothetically suggest, Google disappears one day, where would that leave "SEOShop" and "AnimalCharms" (unless they are registered companies in their own right?).

SG Design Studio owns Animal Charms which is a registered company in it's own right.. I don't own SEO Shop, just a partner and didn't pick the name.. But in the past I have left keywords as a last thought in domain name purchases.. Bangle and Brides, a jewelry and wedding/bridal portal, Feydakin.Com, FormFunctionAndDesign, etc etc etc.. If the business name stands on it's own with a keyword in it, great.. But most of the time questions like this revolve around doing something brandable like Metal Monster Marketing vs something keyword stuffed like google-seo-1st-place.com

I will always tend toward a solidly brandable name over a keyword stuffed name.. If you can achieve both at the same time, great.. But as I said, in 99% of these cases, this isn't what the poster is asking..

[williamc]

1) At what point in time would you suggest doing such a thing? In other words, why later?

2) Would I initially optimise (e.g. point inbound links to) the brandable domain and then, once the long domain name was in place, simultaneously optimise that one as well?


1) when it starts to rank.
2) you would still optimize your brandable site of course right from the start.

[kgun]

SG Design Studio owns Animal Charms which is a registered company in it's own right.. I don't own SEO Shop, just a partner and didn't pick the name.. But in the past I have left keywords as a last thought in domain name purchases.. Bangle and Brides, a jewelry and wedding/bridal portal, Feydakin.Com, FormFunctionAndDesign, etc etc etc.. If the business name stands on it's own with a keyword in it, great.. But most of the time questions like this revolve around doing something brandable like Metal Monster Marketing vs something keyword stuffed like google-seo-1st-place.com

I will always tend toward a solidly brandable name over a keyword stuffed name.. If you can achieve both at the same time, great.. But as I said, in 99% of these cases, this isn't what the poster is asking..
Why not brand your name on your own forum?



Could it be that you just aren't that bright some times?
Yes, but I prefer to discuss that in public in stead of acting as children in the sand box.

[smeatz]

1) when it starts to rank.
2) you would still optimize your brandable site of course right from the start.

Sorry William, I just couldn't quite fully grasp if your answer meant that I ONLY optimise the brandable domain (as you said, "right from the start") or if (as I suggested in my post that you replied to) I begin with optimisation of the brandable domain and then, ultimately, optimise BOTH the brandable AND the long domain in an ongoing manner?

Cheers

Smeatz

[williamc]

What I meant was:

Put an informative page(s) on the long domain for now, optimize it & get it linked up well so that it ranks for the specific keyword, then 301 the domain to the brandable name.
I would also start optimizing and getting links to the brandable name in the meantime.

[jannayacks00]

Typically if you are looking to create a long-term brand, it is a safe bet to choose a branded domain. It is proven that by having short and clean URLs that match your business name that people are going to trust you more than someone with the domain real-estate-agent-tampa.com

[smeatz]

Typically if you are looking to create a long-term brand, it is a safe bet to choose a branded domain. It is proven that by having short and clean URLs that match your business name that people are going to trust you more than someone with the domain real-estate-agent-tampa.com

I am most interested in where this source of proof came from re your statement that "It is proven that by having short and clean URLs that match your business name that people are going to trust you more than someone with the domain real-estate-agent-tampa.com"