Mirror Mirror On The Wall, Am I An SEO At All? [Archive]

mjtaylor

07-27-2010, 10:46 AM

keyon

07-27-2010, 03:32 PM

Here's and interesting SEO type that I run into sometimes...
I'll call him/her the "vintage" seo expert - someone who was an expert in the game early on (1998 - 2002) but hasn't really come up to speed with what's happening with SEO in 2010. I have all the respect in the world for these people - they were masters at their craft back in the day - and many subscribed to some pretty high standards (and still do) when it comes to conducting business online. Back then they could easily (and rightly) charge high consulting fees, because the information they gathered and prepared for clients (like keyword research, competition analysis) was a fairly labor-intensive type of research - something that not many others even knew how to do.

The sad part is that I still see some of these guys/gals trying to charge the same high consulting fees for information that SEO newbies can now get for free (or close to it). There are some amazing SEO tools out there, and literally thousands of free, high-quality video tutorials on the subject - stuff that puts to shame the outdated information that a vintage SEO is trying to sell at a premium. I'm not trying to beat up on these guys...I just feel sad for them. They need to swallow their pride, see what the competition is doing, and then adjust their market strategy accordingly.

morestar

07-27-2010, 04:27 PM

I think what we need worldwide is some sort of regulation and courses teaching SEO with the end result being a degree - maybe - maybe not as SEO isn't that difficult to get your head around.

On the one hand we have articles that MJ mentioned, which basically tries to break down the different SEO types and I guess the different SEO services available.

I myself, I do everything on that list (minus the phony SEO guru and link merchant) - what does that make me? An SEO.

I personally don't like the article and found it slightly offensive. It also didn't give anyone an answer to the obvious problem - just stated it - as we already know. I do not at all blame anyone, no matter how good or bad they are at SEO for saying they are SEOs - it's money and we have to make it. I've hung out with some of the 'best' SEO and there are always times when one knows more about this bit of SEO than the other and vise versa.

SEO boils down to two things. On-page SEO and Off-page SEO. Every up-and-coming web designer should know the basics of on-page SEO and the off-page isn't too difficult to learn - link building - no matter how we do it.

There is problem. Just as most doctors can't take in regular patients without a legal license to do so the same should be for SEO as we have the future of these websites in our hands.

Question: do you have a huge network that you can ask to Digg, Like, Re-Post, Tumble, Share for you? Oh, well good for you - now you're an SEO.

Maybe SEO is boiling down to nothing now because really, there is no big secret.

Blog it up!

keyon

07-27-2010, 04:45 PM

there is no big secret.

This may be the big truth about SEO in 2010.

Doesn't mean there isn't money to be made. Most sucessful SEO programs now give the "secrets" away for free - but then offer nifty tools (for a price) that make gathering that information incredibly quick and easy. That's where the real value is in 2010 - saving time. And people are plenty willing to pay for that.

chrisJumbo

07-27-2010, 04:56 PM

I'm just a guy trying to help people find his great sites better.

Stereotypes are just that. It was a fun article. I didn't find it offensive, but then I didn't feel he was trying to put people in a box, just having fun. I don't think licensing SEOs would work very well. After all, no one would ever agree on a set of standards. :O)

I could certainly see value for those that pursed an "SEO Degree". After all people trust CPAs, CFPs, IAs, etc and all of those are recognized and have specific licensing requirements. But a license doesn't guarantee that the person is any better than the next (Bernie Madoff). So no matter what, the buyer still needs to do their homework on the people they want to purchase services from.

cd :O)

subsystems

07-27-2010, 04:58 PM

A rose by any other name remains the same.
Personally, I don't care what someone's title is, what color their hat is, what it says on their name badge or on the back of their chair, it is more about what they do, how they do it and the results they get.

morestar

07-27-2010, 05:02 PM

So no matter what, the buyer still needs to do their homework on the people they want to purchase services from.

Exactly. That's why I now say forget foreign SEO companies and stick with the locals because at least you can have personal meetings with them and if need be sue them much more easily than having to do so overseas.

Sure, the overseas SEO will charge 5 bucks per article but that's not what it costs in my country - or it really shouldn't - that's for sure.

kgun

07-27-2010, 05:10 PM

I confess, I posted this link on another forum, which in general, is not good forum practice, but I just had to share ...

(PS - I rewrote the thread entirely before adding it here - does that make me Post Spinner?)
Personally, I see no problem with that since you rewrote the thread.

The only remark I have is: Why do you repeat the same link with and without an anchor text?

chrisJumbo

07-27-2010, 05:14 PM

Of course hopefully, your local isn't just outsourcing to a foreign one. Another good question to ask. And good advice. By USA (or Canadian for morestar). :O)

alan

07-27-2010, 06:31 PM

I am not expert in this field but looking this website up they have a SEO of 81% according to domain tools and what legit business uses a Domain Proxy

astro

07-27-2010, 07:30 PM

A rose by any other name remains the same

Very romantic Romeo, but I believe its "A Rose by any other name would smell as sweet"....?

Speaking as a "has-been" circa 1998 - 2002 (my thanks to Keyon as to the reminder of my sad status!) Anyway life was so much simpler then!

I have been a member of this board for some time now and have seen the good, the bad, and the downright ugly all posting and promoting themselves as the "definitive expert".

May I add Expert to your list please MJTaylor? My definition of Expert.......Ex is a "has been" and a SPURT is a "drip under pressure" I have seen my fair share of those here as well, thankfully they don't seen to stay long. :)

This reminds me of a thread I started a while back in the break room asking if a recognised standard should be set so clients would know at least the person they were dealing with knew a little about their subject. I get emails all the time offering SEO services for a site that is already No.1 and 2 for it's targeted keywords. I wonder why at times, then hit the delete key.

I have noticed before in a recession a sudden rash of web designers and online marketing "experts" pop up out of the undergrowth all over the place. Viciously armed with Publisher or a friends copy of Frontpage 2004, they promote themselves aggressively undercutting each other until they are working for less than peanuts (Does that make them less than monkeys?)

Could this be because there is no recognised regulation or standards applied to the Internet? We have a rash of them here now, all desperate to earn something and all potentially dangerous to the health of their customers existing websites. I love it! From a competitive and rival's business point of view of course. :)

Don't you just love the expression "If it ain't broke just keep fixing it until it is!" This could cover the non qualified newbie expert SEO linker chappies or if you prefer "Expert"

/astro

deepsand

07-27-2010, 10:03 PM

I think what we need worldwide is some sort of regulation and courses teaching SEO with the end result being a degree
How does one regulate what is essentially an art form? :confused:

weegillis

07-28-2010, 03:26 AM

@OP: DIY Webmaster, all the way...

@Segue:

We don't regulate the art on a soup can label, we regulate the nutrition (standards) and ingredients (acceptable) of the soup. In SEO the art of a site has nothing to do with it except branding and an enjoyable site experience.

An SEO practitioner is not an artist. SEO is an hitherto non-indoctrinated skill based profession. And, like all professions, success is based upon individual drive, innovation and initiative. How anyone can hope to succeed in the profession without these is beyond me. It is not the sort of environment in which to plunge an artist.

simonm

07-28-2010, 03:56 AM

Being one of those 'sad' older SEO experts who dominated search listings in the earlier part of the decade, perhaps I'm no longer qualified to comment on what makes an SEO expert?

The comment, which is pertinent to any business "And, like all professions, success is based upon individual drive, innovation and initiative" but that was made by weegillis above. I think my definition is success within the constraints of this particular market or a subset of it. Within that of course is knowing and understanding the market, which includes the client, the customer and the dynamics of the market, in this case the web.

There are no secerets, but there never have been, apart from the detail of the various search algorithms. As to distinct qualifications, what with the constant development of the Google and increasingly Bing methodology, qualifications imply a relatively static subject. I remember working on computers in 1980 and 81 and doing a day release. The course was about computing from the 1970s.

As to the overall definition of an SEO. Surely it either combines a large range of skills in one person or the management of that large range of skills depending on the scale of the project. The same applies to web site development, there is room for the one man band developing a 100 page website, the bbc website requires a department (which will most likely include a few SEOs)!

Another observation. Do we define a good SEO simply as one who is successful or uptodate and knowledgable?

weegillis

07-28-2010, 04:33 AM

Good, proper, or effective. SEO can run along all these lines. Being DIY, I go for SE friendly, and let the chips fall where they may. That's about the extent of my investment in SEO, so I can bow out now.

mjtaylor

07-28-2010, 08:25 AM

Personally, I see no problem with that since you rewrote the thread.

Which is what I always do when I cross post.

The only remark I have is: Why do you repeat the same link with and without an anchor text?

It's without any particular intention or thought. I just tend to do that. Years of link building makes me inclined to link contextually.

I do think there are elements of artistry to SEO. I operate ( since 1998 ) on a solid knowledge-base of what has been and is now effective combined with a good instinct, I believe. I wear a mostly white hat, but there are some grey hairs peeking out, no doubt. I am also a Forum Addict.

I think it was just a bit of fun.

morestar

07-28-2010, 01:20 PM

How does one regulate what is essentially an art form? :confused:

Ya I'm really beginning to think and consider SEO as being simply an extension (if the artists chooses to extend) of his web design work.

I suppose there are 'SEO directors' who could say:

speed up the site
make sure the titles are keyworded
add the right alt and title values
make sure the anchor text is keyworded

...and not know a thing technically about web design. Is that person an Expert?

I don't believe there are any experts anymore -simply diligent and hard working people - at the game - backlinks.

And regulating SEO wouldn't be an option as there is really too little to teach a person (within a class environment) about SEO - the simple things like all the obvious on-page work and backlink building.

I wonder if 'SEO' is dead.

Believe me, I sell it and work it and will even beat out my SEO competitor (and lose) but that doesn't make me an expert above them. If I want to win I just do what we all know we need to do to win - get more links.

Wow, I'm a get more links'er...

jhannawin

07-28-2010, 02:38 PM

I'd add 'old hand' as previously mentioned (with a few, like myself admitting to it) and also 'common senser' or 'objective guy' (guilty again). I constantly see businesses (particularly small/medium ones) putting huge amounts of time, money and resources into the latest SEO techniques (that they have found out on boards like this) without a clue of what they are trying to achieve. To illustrate, I sat with a client a week or so ago who's initial objective was 'to be top of Google for ..... (a long list)' and after objective analysis boiling that down to '4 additional calls per week'. On the journey from one to the other I didn't wear a coloured hat or optimise anything.

morestar

07-28-2010, 02:59 PM

kpaulmedia

07-28-2010, 03:00 PM

Thanks for the mention ... again.

I meant no offense by the post. It was meant to be a fun way to look at the industry and maybe get a good lesson or two out there...

Sure, the overseas SEO will charge 5 bucks per article but that's not what it costs in my country - or it really shouldn't - that's for sure.

The same with content creation!

-kpaul

morestar

07-28-2010, 03:02 PM

Thanks for the mention ... again.

I meant no offense by the post. It was meant to be a fun way to look at the industry and maybe get a good lesson or two out there...

The same with content creation!

-kpaul

As in? Graphics? HTML? The whole works? Ya I know...

kpaulmedia

07-28-2010, 10:15 PM

Jeffwend

07-29-2010, 10:18 AM

I think it was Aaron Wall (ironically) that had a post a short while back on the problems with freelancers pricing their services too low. I'm sure if you look around, you'll find it, but it basically put out there that if you charge too little, people will expect more from you. Weird to think of it that way, but it's true sometimes.
That can be very true. Some of our clients that pay the lowest monthly fee are by far the most demanding. If you assign X amount of money to X amount of hours on a project, certain clients can waste their money quickly in constantly requesting meetings and phone calls.

Morestar, I agree 100% with your thoughts in this thread too.

morestar

07-29-2010, 10:32 AM

That can be very true. Some of our clients that pay the lowest monthly fee are by far the most demanding. If you assign X amount of money to X amount of hours on a project, certain clients can waste their money quickly in constantly requesting meetings and phone calls.

Morestar, I agree 100% with your thoughts in this thread too.

It is almost un-real.

I'm not sure if I mentioned this in my previous post in this thread but...if a plumber or electrician can charge $40.00 an hour to fix your problems whilst you're ready and willing to pay that amount, what makes YOU the Business Owner (yes you) think you can charge me, a highly experienced web developer who has mastered a vast array of tools much more higher in number and necessity than a plumber's or electrician's, such a menial amount per hour? Not to mention the fact that I not only can develop a website that could make YOU rich, but I also can get your website at the top of the search engines.

I get quite upset when I see 'SEO job postings' (in Canada, Ontario) that say they pay $16.00 an hour to start.

Every web designer and SEO should be making no less than $40.00 per hour on contract and at least $25.00 to start.

Look at this IAB Canada Interactive Advertising Salary Guide (http://www.iabcanada.com/guidelines/IABCanadaInteractiveAdvertising_SalaryGuide_2010.x ls) for 2010

Check out the Agency Salary Guide tab as it will deal with the industry most of us are in or related to, namely media, paid search marketing, SEO, web analytics.

If I was paid according to this salary guide I'd be making over $300,000 a year...if I choose only one job title I'd make at least over $80,000 a year.

I think web designers need a union that's for sure...

mjtaylor

07-29-2010, 10:34 AM

@Morestar: how about a thread on this idea? It would make a great discussion ... and keep this thread on the lighter side it was intended to take ...

morestar

07-29-2010, 02:29 PM

Sorry MJ, I tried spinning it back to the original...but you indeed did set a spark somewhere with the OP. :)

My apologies...

I guess I could tie in what I was on about with the original post by saying I don't believe any web designers or SEOs fall into any of the categories the author of the your link wrote about. I believe SEOs in India know their stuff because they're getting business and they're smart but they're charging so little which takes a chunk out of Canadian, American and European SEO/web designers/SEO copywriters/link-builders income.

mjtaylor

07-29-2010, 03:38 PM

I am not really objecting to it going off topic so much as I would like to see that as a thread ... :)

byronc

07-29-2010, 09:48 PM

I confess, I posted this link on another forum, which in general, is not good forum practice, but I just had to share the "Portrait of An SEO (http://www.seobook.com/portrait-seo)," from Kpaul on SEOBook.

Descriptions of the SEO "professionals" -- and I use that term loosely -- in today's market include: the Newbie, the Auto-Blogger; the Link Merchant; the Phony SEO Guru; the Tail Chaser (and it doesn't refer to the length of their keyword phrases); the Article Marketer; all sorts of colored Hats; and several more.

No mention of the Forum Poster, but I am sure we know several who fit in there. And the DIY Webmaster ...

Can you see yourself in this mirror? Can you add any more types?

The full article: http://www.seobook.com/portrait-seo.

(PS - I rewrote the thread entirely before adding it here - does that make me Post Spinner?)

there should be a name for web designer / developer who wants to do seo, but cant as his clients dont want to pay the money. I am new to this game, can develop, can do seo (newbie++), but almost all my clients just want a website, and no matter how much you tell them its not gonna magically bring in the clients, they dont listen, and then keep asking for the logo or header to be changed (as clearly, thats why clients aren't coming......)

astro

07-30-2010, 10:55 AM

It is almost un-real.

I get quite upset when I see 'SEO job postings' (in Canada, Ontario) that say they pay $16.00 an hour to start.

Every web designer and SEO should be making no less than $40.00 per hour on contract and at least $25.00 to start.

I think web designers need a union that's for sure...

So sorry MJTaylor...Off topic, but important.....I think.

That may be all the companies pay, but I am sure that is not what they charge! A union.............nice concept but unworkable as I have found no two web designers can possibly agree with each other on every aspect of building, designing a web site and the SEO of said site! :) How are they going to agree to pay rates for jobs or even paying a union fee or if they should? :)

Truth is every time you point the accusing finger on company pay and/or self employed income, you have three more pointing back at your selves. At the end of the day YOU set the price, not the client. Working cheap just makes you a busy fool on an ego trip. It makes the client portfolio look better. Better to have less clients on a much higher hourly rate. You do a better job for each client and thus enhance your reputation more. Take your hourly rate and triple it overnight. Yes you will lose some clients, they were the bad clients anyway. If you are any good at what you do, you won't lose them all. And most assuredly what you charge should reflect the income growth you generate. Ask for a percentage of the increased sales. Why not? How many times have you said to yourself "yes it's expensive, but I will get it!" Why should your clients be any different? Value build your services!

You guys may be good at the science of the Internet webbie thingy. But rubbish at marketing yourselves!

Maybe I should offer my services here! :).............Nah! Too fat and lazy these days. Remember one fact please. As a man once said (Ziegler) Timid salesmen have skinny kids!

/astro

kgun

07-30-2010, 11:23 AM

You guys may be good at the science of the Internet webbie thingy. But rubbish at marketing yourselves!
So can you please teach us.

kevsta

07-30-2010, 04:05 PM

kgun

07-30-2010, 04:47 PM

experience in the real world is what counts, classrooms and certificates mean jacks**t IME and I think SEO is very much the same.
That would fit nicely into my programming experience. I am an economist, but (todays bragging):

Programmed the first version of the program to place 100 billion of the Central Bank of Norway's currency reserves.
Made Norway's first cyclical analyses databank. Stilled named after my last name according to the last information I have.
Made an early version of a program distributed all over the world to test economic models. Used by the Central Bank of Norway, our Ministry of Finance and our Central Bureau of Statistics.
Made the first program to survey our private banking system.
Made a program for Norway's finance minister to survey our interest rate level.
Made a present value computations with a variable interest rate, annuities and and intervals for two of our state banks.

When younger people entered the bank, I slammed the door behind me and left. They may not miss me. I don't miss them, but I miss 99 % of the other people in the bank with a normal ego.

During my online life, I have seen a lot of people with a bigger ego than competence. Some on this forum may mean I am among them.8-)

C0ldf1re

07-30-2010, 06:53 PM

... Can you add any more types?...

There is always The Man Who Has Beaten The System. He worked out how to get really rich, with little effort, by finding a loophole in the Google algorithm. He is so rich that he need never work again. But his conscience has pricked him. He feels a need to help "the little guy". If you are incredibly lucky, you might get an email inviting lucky little you to learn the system. (Don't forget to look in your spam folder for this wonderful opportunity!)

astro

07-30-2010, 07:06 PM

with regards to SEO degrees, they wouldn't be worth the paper they were written on IMO

many years ago I used to work in contract IT recruitment, and you would not believe the amount of people who would call you up after 80GBP per hour roles because they'd just left uni with an IT degree.

they didn't like being told it that in commercial programmer world it was hardly worth the paper it was written on, that they'd basically just wasted 4 years of their life, but we could maybe get them an interview for an office junior role in the programming dept, but that was the truth.

clients wanted the guys who had been on the cutting edge of the technology actually programming live systems for real clients, with strings of live commercial apps to their name to demonstrate their abilities.

most of those guys didn't have degrees, and the cream of the crop, the ones you could never get to take your massive money roles after successful interviews (because they had 3 or 4 other offers concurrently) usually weren't even certified in the particular technology, never mind IT degrees.

experience in the real world is what counts, classrooms and certificates mean jacks**t IME and I think SEO is very much the same.

Fine in principle, but so very short sighted! Personally speaking I know full well I would make the world's worst employee anyway, so have nearly always gone it alone. I recognise my shortcomings.

However that does not mean I would not pay attention to fresh talent out of university, dismiss them out of hand, or discourage their fresh enthusiasm and their input plus value what they had to say. We were all there once. I love talking and exchanging points of view with fresh, enthusiastic if a little too sure of themselves youngsters. Nor do I take exception if they call me grumps! They inspire me and keep me on my toes. I always come away learning something and can use that knowledge in conjunction with my experience. If I ever need an employee, and i will one day,that is exactly where I would go to find him/her. Not that I would pay 80GBP an hour, but I would pay a good rate, added commission on every job from what we had earned and offer company shares reflecting our success after 2 years. They (the good ones) are gold dust and the future. The older more experienced hacks are set in their ways, difficult to mould or accept another perspective and nearer their sell by date (like me)

Remember back in the early days of your career, that older guy always putting you down? I met my nemesis once after 10 years, he was so far behind me in skills base and experience! (and lifestyle) We chatted for a while. He told me how well he was doing and I told him how pleased I was for him and left him there.

Of course experience is valuable, age and wisdom walk hand in hand. But sadly.....just sometimes age comes alone.

/astro

kevsta

07-31-2010, 06:11 AM

astro

07-31-2010, 01:07 PM

no ones arguing that someone with an seo degree they got ten years ago, and ten years commercial experience gained since that would probably be a good hire..

just that possession of an SEO degree alone = teaboy status in the real world.

If a person is any good with ten years experience behind them, what the hell are they doing reading Sits Vac in the first place? They should be so highly valued, their employers keep them happy, or they should be working for themselves. Either way, out of the grasp of the head hunters.

It is the tea boys of this world who hold the future and are sufficently fresh to listen and learn. Besides a tea boy with a degree will still hold more skills than some experienced and dangerous hacks I have met in the real world.

Swam in the sea this morning. The water was 68 degrees. Just as it was last week and the week before that. Then had coffee in a Taverna and spent a blissfull 30 minutes looking out onto an azure blue sea. So far away from the real world, but real enough to me for my trunks to drip water on the tiles, taste the salt on my lips and my filter coffee to taste great!

Pleased I am out of it now. How real was your day?

</astro>

Social-Media

07-31-2010, 03:43 PM

Exactly. That's why I now say forget foreign SEO companies and stick with the locals because at least you can have personal meetings with them and if need be sue them much more easily than having to do so overseas.

Sure, the overseas SEO will charge 5 bucks per article but that's not what it costs in my country - or it really shouldn't - that's for sure.

ROFLMAO I agree totally. People always think they are getting some sort of "deal" when they outsource oversees for pennies on the dollar. Then they later find out that they spent what to them is a bunch of money and got total crap in return. And then they find out they have basically no recourse to recoup their losses since the deal was international. I have worked for many large corporations that have tried this not just with marketing, but also call centers and IT... and inevitably, after a couple years into the "experiment" they ALWAYS end up bringing it back inhouse.

I mean, do you REALLY think some poor guy in India or China or any other foreign country is going to write you a quality article in English, something that your site can use to lure other webmasters into wanting to link to your site? No. If you need content for an American site, you had better get someone for whom "American" English is their first language.

Personally, I cannot stand reading content on sites that are written in broken "Engrish" riddled with poor grammar. I hit the back button as soon as I hit the 2nd sentence w/ grammar errors because I know the 1st sentence was then likely not just a typo. Hell, I wouldn't even hire a guy from the UK to write an article for my American site... and they speak at least a version of English as their first language.

The bottom line is that real SEOs don't have to go around begging for work at forums like this or DP or others. They don't have to do anything to find clients. Clients find them because of their experience and portfolio of clients they have helped successfully. They operate off of referrals from friends of happy past or current clients. If people are not contacting you to do work for them without you asking for work then chances are that you are not ready to be an SEO for hire. Get a job at an agency or working as an inhouse SEO for some online business until such time that people do start seeking you out. Then you can consider going solo.

And those who are hiring so called "expert SEOs" based on their empty guarantees (regardless of whether they live in the US or not) had better at least learn to check lots of references, although for foreign companies or even companies here in the states, even references can be easily faked with the Good Ole Boy network. If you are going to pay some impoverished person in a $3/hour to do your SEO, you had better expect to get about $3 worth of value from them, but not a lot more. If they are willing to work for $3/hour, they have likely had about $3/hour worth of training and experience.

Think about it...

nickoran

08-02-2010, 06:57 AM

There is always The Man Who Has Beaten The System. He worked out how to get really rich, with little effort, by finding a loophole in the Google algorithm. He is so rich that he need never work again. But his conscience has pricked him. He feels a need to help "the little guy". If you are incredibly lucky, you might get an email inviting lucky little you to learn the system. (Don't forget to look in your spam folder for this wonderful opportunity!)

I FINALLy got one! woooh my millions are only a day away, I just need to send my bank details, mortgage repayment details and a signed photograph to recieve these wonderful google cracking secrets! :D

deepsand

08-02-2010, 05:08 PM

I FINALLy got one! woooh my millions are only a day away, I just need to send my bank details, mortgage repayment details and a signed photograph to recieve these wonderful google cracking secrets! :D
I'll sell you my like new copy for your bank credentials alone. :mrgreen:

nickoran

08-03-2010, 07:26 AM

I'll sell you my like new copy for your bank credentials alone. :mrgreen:
i want everyone to know i got a private message requesting photo evidence of my boxershorts with this request... hmmmm deepsand! ;) lololol

FlightCenter

08-03-2010, 01:35 PM

I think it's important to view yourself how you want others to view you. If you command respect you will get it. On that note, you should view yourself as an Internet Marketer, and a Marketer / Salesman in general that happens to know a lot about SEO, search engines, social media, website traffic, onpage, offpage, link building, etc. Sure there are idiots out there but who cares. All that matters is what you think of yourself and what have proved to yourself.

deepsand

08-03-2010, 03:09 PM

i want everyone to know i got a private message requesting photo evidence of my boxershorts with this request... hmmmm deepsand! ;) lololol
Jeez; how many times to I have to say it? Briefs, not boxers. :roll:

mjtaylor

08-03-2010, 05:17 PM

Jeez; how many times to I have to say it? Briefs, not boxers. :roll:

As many as it takes ... Of course!

jhannawin

08-10-2010, 03:52 AM

Sorry morestar, perhaps I was a little vague.

What I meant to point out is that the 'type of SEO' that we see ourselves as, or that we advocate using has become too prominent and is, therefore, confusing the client. As SEOs become more obsessed with 'type' we can often lose site of what the real business objectives are for the client.

In my example an SEO approach to the client could have been "using the latest grey hat techniques I can get you to the first page or top three Google positions for your critical keywords". I can then make the core principles of building a good website sound like some kind of pseudo-science to help me justify my charges. The client thinks he wants to be the top of Google and so we are both happy(?).

A business objective approach starts with "what do you need to achieve?". To be fair the initial answer is often "to be top of Google" and we then have to work from there, but the work brings us around to something like "4 additional calls a week" (OK you'd probably extend this to qualified calls etc etc but the gist is the same). The client isn't confused and nor are we. We can then work back and consider what strategies and tactics will be cost effective in reaching that objective.

In summary, no business wants to be top of the SEs, they want to achieve business objectives. The SEO industry obsession with type, technique, rank and position often masks this point.

deepsand

08-10-2010, 09:11 PM

In summary, no business wants to be top of the SEs, they want to achieve business objectives. The SEO industry obsession with type, technique, rank and position often masks this point.
An excellent point that, unfortunately, requires constant repetition.

Just now, in another active thread, we have have one who is so obsessed, blind to the fact that SEO is not an end in and of itself, but merely one of many marketing strategies, that PageRank is simply one of many tactics there employed, and that SEO does not necessarily provide the best ROI of ones marketing dollars.

C0ldf1re

09-01-2010, 10:23 PM

Jeez; how many times to I have to say it? Briefs, not boxers. :roll:

For those members who do not speak American, what is the difference?

deepsand

09-01-2010, 10:49 PM

*

Boxer Shorts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_shorts)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/London_Tube_boxer_shorts.jpg/220px-London_Tube_boxer_shorts.jpg

Briefs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Briefs_front_and_back.png/220px-Briefs_front_and_back.png

mjtaylor

09-02-2010, 09:31 AM

Okay, someone needs to relate this to SEO ...

deepsand

09-02-2010, 05:26 PM

Okay, someone needs to relate this to SEO ...
While nearly all SEOs wear undergarments, there is no unanimity as to which kind are the better for ranking well with the target audience. ;-)

mjtaylor

09-02-2010, 05:32 PM

Excellent! I knew you could do it! I would award you some rep, but I must go and spread some around first.

nickoran

09-03-2010, 05:23 AM

initial keyword research suggests you would be better off succesfully targetting boxer shorts than briefs!
briefs can also incurr other meanings... i guess...the pelican briefs? ermmm.

;)

deepsand

09-03-2010, 01:22 PM

One must indeed be aware of and take into consideration the various contexts within which a gvien word/phrase may carry meaning.

Examples:

Doors - Music or Architecture
Train - Music, Transportation, Education or Sexual Activity
Eagles - Music, Ornithology or NFL Football

C0ldf1re

09-05-2010, 08:20 PM

williamc

09-05-2010, 08:45 PM

The Emperor Caligula is quoted as saying, "Would that the people of Rome had but one neck, so that I might behead them all at once."

When you feel that way about the people at Google, you are a real SEO.

Yeh, but back then all they had were swords, today we have rifles with amazingly high cyclic rates of fire and still accurate :)

deepsand

09-05-2010, 09:18 PM

Not to mention nukes. :wink:

williamc

09-05-2010, 09:22 PM

too much collateral damage :P

deepsand

09-05-2010, 09:43 PM

Tactical nukes ---> Big G's remote server farms.

C0ldf1re

09-05-2010, 10:04 PM

And flame-throwers. Don't forget that some people deserve a horrible death.

deepsand

09-05-2010, 10:34 PM

An eminently good point.

In that case, perhaps napalm would be the most appropriate.

Tubby

09-05-2010, 10:57 PM

At one stage in our history "siege" was the appropriate method to bring to its knees something the size of a large town.

If I look at google's people, then ponder chopping off heads I am inclined to think 'napalm' and 'nukes' are a bit messy.

'Siege' seems to not be the answer either. SEO's cannot lay siege at the same time the are secretly feeding the siege'ee.

Sometimes I ponder the sanity of 'some' SEO's. . they seem to have whatever it is that is the opposite of "killing the golden goose syndrome" . . sort of 'sustaining the golden parasite? syndrome'

Maybe there is just a simple pill everyone could take. . Chopping heads off is so uncivilised. .

(Maybe I am still upset about losing my ancestral birthright and the loss of my ancient "rape and pillage rights" . . .) My forefathers (and a few of yours) roamed Europe Raping and pillaging, The rights of the Victor . . I really miss that!.

Somebody better get this thread back on topic.

deepsand

09-05-2010, 11:24 PM

"Mirror Mirror On The Wall, Am I An SEO At All?" does sound rather ephemeral, does it not, what with photons winking in and out of existence, quantum mechanical interactions triggering fleeting things called thoughts, those in turn giving rise to the collapse of wavelets into particles interacting with particles, until we come full circle to the photons which here give rise to the sensation of reading the cryptic squiggles of others?

The topic? Self definition?

C0ldf1re

09-05-2010, 11:25 PM

... Somebody better get this thread back on topic.

Why? When we are getting brilliant posts like, 'sustaining the golden parasite syndrome', let's not spoil things!

Tubby

09-05-2010, 11:56 PM

Why? When we are getting brilliant posts like, 'sustaining the golden parasite syndrome', let's not spoil things!

Nice I like that who said that? . . I want to chop his head off. . Damned google haters are infiltrating the whole ruddy web. . . . just like google does?

SEO is a synonym of FLR (frontal lobes removed)

Of course I shall claim that the above is merely a joke and that I am unavoidably humoured by my own silliness. . Or I might wish to argue this point. .

Don't blame me if a moderator comes in here and chastises all of us . (I am on a tea break)

deepsand

09-06-2010, 12:01 AM

Don't blame me if a moderator comes in here and chastises all of us . (I am on a tea break)
A well tossed sausage should then suffice.

Tubby

09-06-2010, 12:07 AM

Question "Mirror Mirror On The Wall, Am I An SEO At All?

It seem perfectly clear to me that a mirror will instantly show any incision marks on the forehead. MJ knew this when she posed the question. . being a lady she merely started the thread in the presumption that someone would observe the connection. This way she would not be frowned upon for her original thought.

It is fortunate that I can read minds across vast oceans.

deepsand

09-06-2010, 12:17 AM

Not to mentions across eons as well.

mjtaylor

09-06-2010, 08:23 AM

<snip>

Sometimes I ponder the sanity of 'some' SEO's. . they seem to have whatever it is that is the opposite of "killing the golden goose syndrome" . . sort of 'sustaining the golden parasite? syndrome'

Maybe there is just a simple pill everyone could take. . Chopping heads off is so uncivilised. .

(Maybe I am still upset about losing my ancestral birthright and the loss of my ancient "rape and pillage rights" . . .) My forefathers (and a few of yours) roamed Europe Raping and pillaging, The rights of the Victor . . I really miss that!.

Somebody better get this thread back on topic.

Are you saying you were trying to do that? ;)
"Mirror Mirror On The Wall, Am I An SEO At All?" does sound rather ephemeral, does it not, what with photons winking in and out of existence, quantum mechanical interactions triggering fleeting things called thoughts, those in turn giving rise to the collapse of wavelets into particles interacting with particles, until we come full circle to the photons which here give rise to the sensation of reading the cryptic squiggles of others?

The topic? Self definition?

Of all people, do I need to suggest you read the OP and entire thread? ;)

Don't blame me if a moderator comes in here and chastises all of us . (I am on a tea break)

Ahem. A moderator on a tea break is still a moderator. Maybe you should get a second profile.
A well tossed sausage should then suffice.

Sausage doesn't do it for me.
Question "Mirror Mirror On The Wall, Am I An SEO At All?

It seem perfectly clear to me that a mirror will instantly show any incision marks on the forehead. MJ knew this when she posed the question. . being a lady she merely started the thread in the presumption that someone would observe the connection. This way she would not be frowned upon for her original thought.

It is fortunate that I can read minds across vast oceans.

Tea will do that for you.

Actually, the "mirror mirror" allusion was entirely to do with self examination. And I will say you all are revealing yourselves, indeed. <blows kisses while winking>

Tubby

09-06-2010, 09:31 AM

I do get a tea break, it is in my contract . . Ask Rah.

C0ldf1re

09-06-2010, 11:01 AM

... <blows kisses while winking>

Hee, hee! MJ gave everybody a good telling-off --- except me. I just got the kisses. Yippee!

williamc

09-06-2010, 12:49 PM

Ok MJ, we just found another type, the retarded forum spammer type :)

deepsand

09-06-2010, 05:55 PM

The topic? Self definition?

Of all people, do I need to suggest you read the OP and entire thread?
Followed by

Actually, the "mirror mirror" allusion was entirely to do with self examination.
I rest my case. :mrgreen:

Tubby

09-06-2010, 07:11 PM

Mirror mirror reflecting all
hanging on the WebPro Wall
I touched the glass, I want to feel
reflections that are warm and real.

Mirror mirror reflect me true
bouncing light and say 'that's you'
stabbing fingers, reflections eye
Will not make 'reflection' cry.

Mirror mirror always lies
reflecting clouds - while bright blue skies
presenting images as true
post manipulation me and you.

Mirror mirror, tricking me.
Smash the glass it won't hurt me
I've never been where you observe
I live elsewhere . . .

I just wrote this poem, I called it 'honesty' It is a protest poem.

It puts me back on topic; When we look at SEO and ourselves - We present false images. There should be room in every thread for something pointless, Pointlessness is like a compass needle . . waiting for the pull of gravity to give it purpose.

C0ldf1re

09-06-2010, 07:37 PM

... There should be room in every thread for something pointless, Pointlessness is like a compass needle . . waiting for the pull of gravity to give it purpose.

Tubby, you are so profound,
Your thoughts fly high above the ground.
You are a truly clever man.
I gave you all the "green" I can!

weegillis

09-06-2010, 08:59 PM

I have about a dozen replies to this banter, but must stick to the OP, so, in answer to the question the mirror replied,
"I don't know. Walk through me, and see!"

deepsand

09-06-2010, 09:07 PM

Whereupon Alice enters from stage left.

yeah

09-07-2010, 01:51 AM

(PS - I rewrote the thread entirely before adding it here - does that make me Post Spinner?)

If content is good on the internet. People will link to it. It will start showing up everywhere. They will repost it, copy it, rewrite it, or just link to it and talk about it.

What is the difference if the poster puts it on two different websites? I'm glad you did, or else I wouldn't have found it.

Now back to the article you linked....

I think I'm a mixture of a lot of them. i enjoy matt cutts SEO related posts, i do article writing. I'm NOT a tail chaser. I use my own brain, and do what I think is best. Im a rebel like that.

It was a humorous post. But it gives a GREAT idea of the different types of SEO there is.