Moving On From Regular Websites

[DaveSawers]

More and more consumers are getting iPhones, iPads, Android phones and other similar mobile computers. These devices are being used for a whole lot more than just surfing the internet. The key to these new uses are apps that run as programs on the devices and access the internet and other services to provide the user with a much richer experience than just finding websites.

So, developing apps is the next big thing in software development (and web development) so that means I want to be a part of it. I'll use this thread as documentation of my experiences, how I get on, what I achieve and problems found along the way. Feel free to join in with your own experiences, suggestions, etc.

[DaveSawers]

The obvious place to start is by developing apps for the iPhone. The iPhone is cool and its users seem to have lots of money to spend on $0.99 apps. SO that's where I decided my first app would be targeted.

A little research shows that the most successful iPhone apps are downloaded from the iTunes website. This is where users go to find new cool stuff to use. If you want your apps to be listed on iTunes, Steve Jobs says you have to use the Apple iPhone SDK. Not surprisingly, that SDK only runs on Apple Mac computers. So the first thing I had to do was go out and buy a MacBook Pro. This is no hardship really, apart from the cost. I haven't used a Mac since the earliest square box ones but I've always liked the way they work.

I have to say that after playing with the Mac for the last week or so that I prefer Windows as an operating system. Never thought I'd say that and maybe more familiarity will change my mind. The Apple certainly has a number of advantages. I love the battery life. It's good for at least eight hours of developing compared to less than two on my normal Dell XPS. Jobs has a point when he rails against inefficient power hungry programs making his iPhones almost useless.

[DaveSawers]

I was on vacation last week so took the Mac along to work through the development tutorials by the lake in BC. Downloading the SDK took a loooong time as it's huge. It does allow you to develop for the Mac OS as well as iPod Touch (an iPhone without the phone) and iPad as well as the iPhone so porting a new iPhone app to iPad should be a doddle. It also has simulators for each of the devices which is kind of essential since I don't have an iPhone yet! My daughter has one so I figured I'd borrow that for final testing. However, my wife now wants one so maybe I'll have easier access sooner than I thought.

First problem is that Mac development uses Objective C which is sufficiently unlike C++ and similar languages that learning it is going to be a pain. It all seems back to front to me but after working through the inevitable "Hello World" tutorial, I was able to hack around and make it rotate sensibly between portrait and landscape when the device is rotated and do a few other things.

So, now what App shall I develop?

[peskyhuman]

So, now what App shall I develop?

Now that is the big question - there are so many already out there, I am pondering a similar question.

I wonder if there is any way to see download stats for current apps, if there is I haven't found where yet. This would help to work out what is popular, what is overdone, etc...

[DaveSawers]

Actually I know what it's going to be. I'm just being secretive for the moment, in case my objective changes.

If an app is already popular, why try and duplicate it? Isn't it better to develop a type of app that doesn't exist yet or extend an existing app to do new, better things in a more natural way.

[weegillis]

Rhetoric:
An app that grows out of one's own expertise and interests comes to mind. What would help you in the pursuit of your hobby and interests? Is there a widget that hasn't been invented yet that will help others and yourself in your profession?

[byronc]

there are not enough apps for the htc windows and android platforms at all. Trust me I had a htc and very little and difficult to get and install - may have chenged though

[DaveSawers]

One of the most significant problems for the iPhone app developer is to fit enough information on that small screen so it's still usable. My proposed application needs at least one drop down combo box so the user can make a selection from a list of options. There is no such widget for the iPhone apart from the spinny thing. Don't get me wrong, the spinny thing (it's officially called a picker by the way) is a really neat widget that is easy to manipulate with iPhone gestures. The problem is that it takes up nearly half the available screen real estate. Put one of those in your app and the rest of the required information had better be very compact. Oh bring back the days when we were worried about which screen resolution to use 1024 x 768 would be heaven compared to the tiny iPhone screen. However, if you can fit it all in on the iPhone, the iPad will be simple.

[weegillis]

Gotta miss the days of 80 character (or 40, or 32) display... No mystery what to use the screen for, then, eh?

07734

We were coders, weren't we?!

USR was second nature to any apps we wrote then, and if you had a Sinclair, MATH was always at hand to turn off the display to give all the resources to the math section of the computer.

Today, sadly to say the 14 to 24 group dominates the user base of any UI environment, so the app market must be there also. If you're my age you're going to be stretching your imagination and awareness (you said you had kids, right, this will help) to come up with an app that will fit the market that's buying apps right now.

480x320, considering most kids' eyesight is 1024x768 for us beds---ters. Make your app really reach out to the users that will have it in spades, the young market. Think you can do that, Dave? Give it all your go!

[DaveSawers]

I'm an engineer by training and intend to develop useful tools for engineers and students. I have no interest in games or gimmicks. I probably won't make a million from these app developments but I think they'll be useful.

And yes, I'm probably quite old compared to the normal developer demographic. I have four grandchildren, the oldest of whom is seventeen. I even know what your 07734 means. But being older means I have experience and skills that these kids can only hope to eventually catch up with. The mechanics of programming are reasonably straightforward, so I work on the principle that if kids can do it it can't be that hard.

[keyon]

If an app is already popular, why try and duplicate it?
I don't have particular experience in marketing iphone apps...but in more general marketing terms, the idea that you should always come up with something new and unique is a big misconception. In fact, usually the best approach is to find what's already popular (market testing already done), then perhaps add a little spin or improvement on the idea. The most successful entreprenuers are rarely frontiers in their field. They take other people's good ideas and make them great.

[DaveSawers]

So I've designed the user interface for my little app. Even though it's a fairly small app is still needs two screens to get the information across. I finally managed to get the first screen to display in a limited way but I have to admit I don't really understand what I'm doing yet! It's more complicated than I was expecting. I wonder if there are any courses for this stuff?

Yesterday I downloaded the Eclipse version of the Android SDK (on my PC rather than the Mac) and that's an equally unfamiliar environment. Android uses Java for programming, another language I haven't tangled with yet. I worked through the simple tutorial and it seemed to make sense so I don't think it 'll be any harder than developing for the iPhone. I'll get the iPhone app working first, then try the new visual Android development SDK (App Inventor) to replicate it in that environment. With a bit of luck I won't have to dive too far into the Java stuff...

[MrGamm]

Interesting question.

If it's not a game, or a self encapsulated application, as in the database does not reside directly in the phone itself, can you actually make anything which would not be better suited to use http? Like a standard web app?

I think you could probably make a game, and I do remember there being a lack of support for flash on the iphone and that could have been an attempt to open up a more profitable or productive environment for developers. To my knowledge nobody is currently making money off games expect for those who smart enough to make cartridges or those charging for database driven multi player cloud MMORPGs.

I am not economist, or a game developer, just guessing.

If your objective is not to make a game. You could make just about anything you wanted but the real value will most likley come from cloud driven databases, communications, or what have you. Which brings me back to my original question. Is there any reason to make an app instead of a website?

The only reason I can think of is the potential costs involved regarding bandwidth usage. I mean who wants to pay crazy fees to browse a website or play a game when they could download it one time as an app.

I don't know... just thinking out loud.

[wige]

So far, I have only built one app myself, which was an app for the Android platform. Already being fairly familiar with Java, having built a few Java-based servers and a couple client applications, it wasn't much of a jump moving into Android development. I suspect going into other platforms such as Blackberry would be similarly straightforward, as most systems today that aren't the iPhone (or WinMo) use Java.

As far as why create an app instead of a web site, the app that I created and most of the apps I have worked with are very web-enabled, using XML to communicate with a server. However, instead of creating a bunch of links, with an app you can create a user experience that is more adaptable to the mobile environment, even incorporating gestures, as well as the aforementioned reduction in bandwidth. An app can also keep your service/content in the mind of the user, as they see the icon each time they look at their apps.

I would also add, an app can (at least on Blackberry, PalmOS and Android) interact with other apps. So, you can get information about movies in your app, then send the location to a mapping app, or add a showtime to the built-in calendar, or even use the dialer to call the theater or open the browser to purchase tickets.

[peskyhuman]

Gotta miss the days of 80 character (or 40, or 32) display... No mystery what to use the screen for, then, eh?

07734

We were coders, weren't we?!

USR was second nature to any apps we wrote then, and if you had a Sinclair, MATH was always at hand to turn off the display to give all the resources to the math section of the computer.

Today, sadly to say the 14 to 24 group dominates the user base of any UI environment, so the app market must be there also. If you're my age you're going to be stretching your imagination and awareness (you said you had kids, right, this will help) to come up with an app that will fit the market that's buying apps right now.

480x320, considering most kids' eyesight is 1024x768 for us beds---ters. Make your app really reach out to the users that will have it in spades, the young market. Think you can do that, Dave? Give it all your go!

We we're coders once... and young.

Sorry, couldn't resist that comment.

I am actually following your rhetoric advice above by the way weegillis and planning an app which will be of great use I am sure, I just hope some people buy it!

DaveSawers I am also pondering the screen size for the iphone, how to fit a lot of information on in a way which is not too overwhelming, I guees I will have to break it down into careful and well ordered segments.

An interesting comparison for an iphone app is some mobile websites, many of which still don't fit on the iphone!

[DaveSawers]

Haven't done much on my app development recently. Too many other distractions. However, I have found an iPhone developer course to attend in October that I hope will kick start my new career direction. Meanwhile, I'll continue to tinker with app development.

[kgun]

Mac development uses Objective C which is sufficiently unlike C++ and similar languages that learning it is going to be a pain.

Can it be more painful than C++?



So, developing apps is the next big thing in software development (and web development) so that means I want to be a part of it. I'll use this thread as documentation of my experiences, how I get on, what I achieve and problems found along the way. Feel free to join in with your own experiences, suggestions, etc.


I'm an engineer by training and intend to develop useful tools for engineers and students. I have no interest in games or gimmicks. I probably won't make a million from these app developments but I think they'll be useful.
There I have to disagree. IMO game development for those platforms will be both challenging, useful and pushing you to the limit of the platforms potential.


I wonder if there are any courses for this stuff?
I bought this [iphonedevbook.com/] book some months ago.



Yesterday I downloaded the Eclipse version of the Android SDK (on my PC rather than the Mac) and that's an equally unfamiliar environment.
I skimmed the content of the book and got the impression that the preferred development platform was a Mac, that I do not intend to buy now. Therefore I put the book aside for a time.

[DaveSawers]

There I have to disagree. IMO game development for those platforms will be both challenging, useful and pushing you to the limit of the platforms potential.

I agree that game development is challenging. I'm just not interested in doing it.


I skimmed the content of the book and got the impression that the preferred development platform was a Mac, that I do not intend to buy now. Therefore I put the book aside for a time.

If you want to get your app on iTunes you do need to develop on a Mac as that is one of the requirements.

[kgun]

So have you made any applications?

Look at the book titles that pop up on Amazon. Very many are related to developing applications for mobile media.

[DaveSawers]

So have you made any applications?

Still working on it as a background activity. I'm making progress but it's slow.

[kgun]

I think you have a great market potential.

Many people here use their mobile phones to surf the web and buy online.

Example. You have a Paypal account and live on a hotel in a big city. You connect your mobile platform to and existing network, pay by PayPal for one hour mobile surfing and order theatre / cinema tickets etc. online. Very often prices are cheaper online, so what you pay for web connection, can soon be saved in cheaper commodities and services. And you can pass the que when you arrive.

I think you are aware of this http://www.w3.org/Mobile/ page.

Amazon now has a suggest search box. As an example try:

Books iP

Books iPhone

Books andr

Books Blackbe

The sky is the limit. At least a seamless "mobile website" can bring traffic to your "ordinary" web pages.

Have you tried to implement special CSS stylesheets for mobile media of your existing webpages?

[3DGrunge]

Just a quick interjection. If DragonFireSDK still works then you do not need a mac to develop for the iPhone.
If anyone is interested in development but are against purchasing an overpriced new machine it might be worth checking out.

[astro]

Hi Guys,

This is a science totally lost on me, even my mobile phone was purchased by in 2003 because it fitted in the car phone holder in my new car at the time. It is the best phone I have ever owned and still works well enough for me to question if I need a new one, so having a phone that uses apps is academic. That said, I get an itchy feeling in the back of my neck that I should be exploring this field more. Just as I do not get that feeling with facetweet.

So being in the travel industry and the business whilst a UK company concentrates on one small area of a small Greek island. So tell me would having an app geared to my business in my location be of any benefit? I have no idea what this would cost or how to go about it or even what it could do for me. I just get a feeling if I am going to progress the business I need one! :) if only to stay one step ahead.......

/astro