Click Fraud: The Google Killer

[Garrett]

Google listed click fraud as one of the potential "worries" that would-be investors should consider. In fact, they admitted to regularly paying refunds because of click fraud and stated that they may have to make retroactive payments.

Michael Bradley recently tried to pressure Google into paying $100,000 for his click fraud software, and though he was arrested by the FBI, his attempted extortion (http://www.webpronews.com/insiderreports/searchinsider/wpn-49-20040322ArrestShowsGooglesVulnerability.html) points to the weakness of pay per click advertising.

Click fraud remains a major topic among forums, and I imagine it will become a more mainstream topic in more mainstream media as people begin to inspect what's affecting Google's revenue.

The SEORoundTable blog (http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/000396.html) linked to a recent thread in the IHelpYou forums called "fraudulent clicks today (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14564)." Barry named his post "Click Fraud: Pros and Cons" so I clicked through, wondering what the possible pros of click fraud could be from the marketers perspective (from any perspective, really - fraud hurts the ppc vendors in the long term).

AndyJ, a member of the IHelpYou forum, pointed out that "clicking on your ad boosts the click through rate. A higher CTR equals a higher position for less cost in many cases."

I was surprised to read the number of people who consider fraud just a cost of buying PPC advertising - it seemed that many some who posted were resigned to paying more money for fewer real clicks.

AndyJ said, "Any of us that use AdWords or any other PPC has to pay for a certain percentage of fraudulent clicks. I factor it in as a cost of doing business."

How long will ad buyers be willing to pay the extra cost? As long, apparently, as ppc still delivers value. The issue as I see it though is that buyers still don't receive what they paid for.

The thread, later joined by a second tier ppc vendor who bashes Google ppc, decends into mild though interesting bickering as members rise to defend Google, but some members do voice some interesting points.

Junior Harris alluded to click fraud software in his post, and included a dishearteningreminder: "there are some pretty creative hacks out there auto generating everything from UA, referrals, and possibly IP addresses as well. The key to remember is not to spend more than you can afford to give away."

WebmasterT pointed out that "itemized clicks would provide transparent and easy detection of fraud." He then asked why, if Google can provide this information to AdSense partners why can't they provide that same transparency to people who are paying for ads.

Regarding Google refunds from verified instances of click fraud, AndyJ said, "I have had 2 occasions in the past to report a gross fraud such as yours. After supplying the AdWords team with the required information, they did in fact resolve the problem and issue a refund within about 4 weeks."

There's a click fraud thread at JimWorld (http://jimworld.com/apps/webmaster.forums/action::thread/forum::googleadwords/thread::1064825360/), however, that tells a slightly different story. One webmaster lost thousands through alleged AdWords click fraud and it took months of continued effort to get a refund. The thread runs from 9-29-03 through 11-15-03 (when he finally got his refund) but he alleges the fraud occurred three months before his first post.

Another click fraud thread at WebMasterWorld (http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum81/1778.htm) mentions fraudulent clicks coming from proxy servers in India.

Pierre Zarokian, President of SubmitExpress.com (http://www.submitexpress.com), offers the following advice for pay per click advertisers:

>>Repetition of IP Addresses
>>An irregular or large number of clicks coming from the same geographic region or country.
>>IP addresses belonging to cloaking software companies
>>Keywords that normally do not get any traffic are now getting an unusually high number of clicks.
>>Your click throughs have doubled or tripled without having had any bid changes or rank changes

His entire article, Click Fraud: Is It Happening to You? (http://developers.evrsoft.com/article/internet-marketing/seo/stop-ppc-click-fraud.shtml), is an excellent resource for anyone who suspects click fraud.

Thanks to Pierre for the tips on how AdWords users can watch out for click fraud - but what can Google do? Can click fraud be wiped out forever? And how valuable is stock in a company whose primary source of income is the target of such diligent and resourceful fraudsters?

If anything kills Google's growth it will be click fraud - the decomposition of AdWords value.

[fashezee]

I had spent my entire monthly budget in one day and received not sales; this was more then a year ago:
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum81/336.htm

The bottom line:

PPC - must be monitored. And if ROI is positive, then keep advertising.

No matter what they say their filters can do, using proxy servers and assigning different IPs to a machine is childs play for some gurus....

[kokopoko]

That's a very interesting post. I quit doing PPC a few weeks ago with all the search engines I was using. In particular I noticed a problem with Enhance. I was running through my budget in only a few days. Boy that was an awful lot of traffic. I now have to wonder...

[G[dot]com]

I have a client who is paying three times what she did last year for the same Adwords campaign. I have serious doubts that she may be a victim of fraudulent clicks.


>>Repetition of IP Addresses
>>An irregular or large number of clicks coming from the same geographic region or country.
>>IP addresses belonging to cloaking software companies
>>Keywords that normally do not get any traffic are now getting an unusually high number of clicks.
>>Your click throughs have doubled or tripled without having had any bid changes or rank changes

How can I find out if this is what is happening to my client?

By the way...Garrett with a mask in today´s newsletter reffers to the criminal side of fraudulent click, or it means that the only chance left to us is yelling for Zorro to save our budgets?

Where is Don Diego?

;o)

[LessBusinessRisk]

I called FindWhat.com customer support in New York to see why my account had no clicks within the past 30 days. Later that day, my account had 23 clicks. I closed the account.

[oiboi]

Had my fill of PPC's early on and found they are not for small business. Despite ads that clearly stated what I had to sell, most clicks were one-second (barely). Switching from Google to Lycos to FindWhat made no difference, and many clicks were from foreign countries. I went through my (paltry) advertising budget way too fast.

Seems clear to me that ad clients should have a choice as to where their ads will be displayed...a choice of opting off the podunk engines. For certain, until Google, etc. can guarantee that they are not one big pyramid scheme, and no one is getting paid to click on my ad, tahelmitum.

[Dave Hawley]

After much trial and error with AdWords over the years I now only pay the min of 5c pc (my not so secret recipe!). With this in mind, click fraud is rarely an issue for me. I do however believe that most click fraud is done on Google's partner sites using AdSense. For this reason, (and too many non buying clickers) I now only show my ads on search results.

As has been suggested, click fraud is part of doing business with ppc......unfortunately. They ones that get 'stung' the worst are those bidding top $. Hint Hint!

[bruwmac]

My first reaction to the notion of Pay Per Click was "You have got to be kidding!"

Its tough enough to convert visits to sales, even from well targeted traffic, without paying for the privilege of having tire kickers breezing through my site.

I guess there must be companies successfully acheiving a good ROI, or the entire concept would have died out by now. But it still scares the heck out of me. Trusting that the vendors of the PPC AND the competition won't be using clever methods to click away on my dime is not something I am willing to risk or to recommend to my clients.

And the bigger companies that I have talked to are spending huge amounts, like $50K/mo, without good ROI. yikes!

[abbeyinternet]

Google listed click fraud as one of the potential "worries" that would-be investors should consider. In fact, they admitted to regularly paying refunds because of click fraud and stated that they may have to make retroactive payments.

What is the legality of unscrupulous clicking? Is there any precedent in case law? I would be interested to receive a response in this forum from anybody with knowledge or experience in these matters.

[neilwillis]

I am sure that someone at google/ Adwords had something to do with the shake up of the results...

Just before Christmas (end of November) we were No.1 on regular listings, and over night we were then on page 5!!!

So our only option was to go for Adwords. WOW.

We went from paying nothing to paying £2500 per month!!!

Just before Christmas too. Seems such a coincidence.

This is just my personal opinion. It may be just the way things happened, but someone out there knows that it’s important to have your listing at Christmas.

We are a small company, and are now spending £3000 per month on various PPC's. We pay it because we get the traffic and the bookings, but there was a time when it didn’t cost so much.

Thanks for reading,


Neil

[mikmik]

Where is Diego? Lokking into it with Quixote? Mayhaps a mask is difficult to find?

A man as pure as Don (haha either? Both?) will be sure to extirpate the frauds.

But I follow from the front page, and am wondering the way of determining false clicks myself.
How can I find out if this is what is happening to my client?

G[dot]com, it looks like you must access your clients server logs, and also report to google or overture with the evidence, then they will investigate

If the data points indicate that the click is not a valid one, our Click Protection System marks the click in our billing system, and the advertiser is not charged for it. However, we are unable to remove the click from the advertiser's own Web logs."

The software will detect some, but not all fraudulent activity. If you the bidder- are suspicious of the activity of your account, you should contact Overture's client services department where they have click activity specialists that will do an investigation of your account activity. If they determine that the suspicious activity may be valid, they will conduct a more thorough and detailed investigation.

The single best way to help Overture help you - is to be prepared with raw data when making a claim.

There is really no way to prevent click fraud. As competition increases and more companies turn to PPC advertising, this problem can only get bigger. Overture's click protection system is not fool-proof, so you as an advertiser must take some responsibility and check for suspicious activity.

The first step is to obtain your website's server logs if you don't already have them. Your web host should usually be able to provide them.

The items to look for when analyzing your logs are:

* Repetition of IP Addresses
* An irregular or large number of clicks coming from the same geographic region or country.
* IP addresses belonging to cloaking software companies
* Keywords that normally do not get any traffic are now getting an unusually high number of clicks.
* Your click throughs have doubled or tripled without having had any bid changes or rank changes

Google's distributed information is very similar as their web site states:

"Google closely monitors all clicks on AdWords Select ads to ensure that there is no abuse of the program. This includes analyzing all clicks to determine whether they fit a pattern of fraudulent use intended to artificially drive up an advertiser's clicks. Google's proprietary technology automatically distinguishes between clicks generated through normal use by users and clicks generated by click spamers and automated robots. As a result, we're able to filter out clicks you don't want and ensure they don't show up on your reports or bills."

Both Overture and Google want to preserve the integrity of their engine's bidding environments. After all, when it becomes too discouraging for a business to effectively bid, the advertiser will pull up stakes and leave the system.
That is from the article linked above by Garret: http://developers.evrsoft.com/article/internet-marketing/seo/stop-ppc-click-fraud.shtml

Do you know how to access their server logs?
(Why do I think you already know all this LOL)
I hope this gets the ball rolling for you, if it is necessary.
c.d.

[DrTandem1]

PPC is one of the biggest advertising scams to hit the internet. It is unfortunate that a company that appears to be as honest as Google offers it.

As some have already mentioned, they have invested quite a bit with no ROI. I know from my own experience with several sites that this is basically true. I also experimented on the other side with providing the ads. There is virtually no income from these.

Even if they can detect all manners of fraud (they can't), it's still a loser. Firstly, very few, if any, potential customers click on these ads. Secondly, even if the fraudulent clicks are detected, they are still charged to the advertiser.

My recommendation for PPC: Don't bother.

[Dave Hawley]

PPC is one of the biggest advertising scams to hit the internet. It is unfortunate that a company that appears to be as honest as Google offers it.

Only applies to those that think it's a silver bullet. We use it (AdWords) to increase sales. We spend about $40.00 per day for an increased return of $100.00.

My recommendation for PPC: Learn how to use it and not let it use you.

[DrTandem1]

Sorry, Dave, I find that very difficult to believe. A ROI of 250%? No offense, but I don't think so. Didn't I see you on an infommercial? The one where people make millions from home in their pajamas? Just kidding.

[Dave Hawley]

Sorry, Dave, I find that very difficult to believe. A ROI of 250%? No offense, but I don't think so

That's ok. Believe what ever suits you. I know this to be true.

[neilwillis]

I think it all depends on what you are selling. If you have a desirable product and the price is right, then PPC will work out. If however you’re trying to sell a £100m contract or a chocolate fireguard then its not going to work.

Like Dave said
Learn how to use it and not let it use you.

[DrTandem1]

Yes, the success of a product/service that is selling well may be blamed on a specific method of advertising. Studies have shown that most web traffic does NOT come from search engines. So, PPC for placement is probably a waste of money.

Of course, the search engines and those that make money from SEO don't want you to know that.

People are weary from spam and banners. So, anything that looks like an ad they avoid or don't even see anymore. Does anyone click on the Google sponsored ads while doing a search? I don't even look at them.

[Dave Hawley]

Studies have shown that most web traffic does NOT come from search engines

All studies I have seen and read state the opposite. The opposite also corresponds very well with my Web logs. Where did you read this study? It sounds very dodgy to me.

[DrTandem1]

Dave,

I'll try to find the study I read months ago and post it here. In the mean time, are you telling me that your web logs show that the majority of your referrer sites are search engines? Interesting. I have never seen that stat dominated by search engines, even combined.

[Dave Hawley]

In the mean time, are you telling me that your web logs show that the majority of your referrer sites are search engines?

Absolutely. Other that other Web sites (which is indirect SE traffic) I don't where else a large number of traffic would come from?

[DrTandem1]

Sorry, Dave, I didn't quite understand that. Wait, maybe I did. So, you are saying that other web sites (other than search engines) are actually a larger source of the traffic than directly from search engine links. That proves my point.

[Dave Hawley]

DrTandem1, I mean that my Web logs show that most (about 90%+) of my traffic comes direct from SE.

Google = 85 %
Yahoo = 6%
MSN = 3%


I'm not too sure where else a Web site would get traffic from? Other than other Web sites that is, which is indirect SE traffic. My top reffering web site accounts for only 4 % of all traffic.

[DrTandem1]

So, only 10% of your traffic comes from other sources such as other sites, direct url, etc? That's an anomaly. You may want to try reciprocal linking plus traditional advertising. If you already are doing that, then it is not effective.

[Dave Hawley]

That's an anomaly

Absolutely not, it's the norm. When I first set-up a site 90%+ of my traffic came from the hundreds of sites that linked to me and less than 10% from SE. As time has passed, I have added content pages almost daily and these, along with all other pages, have been spidered and indexed by SE.

DrTandem1, If you are getting a large % of traffic from other sites and a small % from SE you have been led up the garden path at some time. SE traffic is always more targeted than traffic from other sites. Links from other sites, while bringing some traffic, are more valuable as passing on PR.

[DrTandem1]

Dave,

I'll take your word for what you are saying. However, I've been around the block...a few times. Someone pull my other leg, it plays Jingle Bells. I have yet to see stats where the referrer logs were made up mostly of search engines. If yours is, so be it.

[Dave Hawley]

DrTandem1, I get about 10,000 unique visits per day. How many are you talking? I'm not trying to say 'mines bigger than yours':) I'm just starting to think that you are talking apples, while I'm talking oranges.

[DrTandem1]

Believe me, yours is much bigger than mine, Pinocchio. ;)

[Dave Hawley]

Do you want to be apples or oranges :o)

[AussieWebmaster]

com]I have a client who is paying three times what she did last year for the same Adwords campaign. I have serious doubts that she may be a victim of fraudulent clicks.


>>Repetition of IP Addresses
>>An irregular or large number of clicks coming from the same geographic region or country.
>>IP addresses belonging to cloaking software companies
>>Keywords that normally do not get any traffic are now getting an unusually high number of clicks.
>>Your click throughs have doubled or tripled without having had any bid changes or rank changes

How can I find out if this is what is happening to my client?

By the way...Garrett with a mask in today´s newsletter reffers to the criminal side of fraudulent click, or it means that the only chance left to us is yelling for Zorro to save our budgets?

Where is Don Diego?

;o)

Though not as bad as it has been in the past, the tripling of expenses is more to do with the auction system then it is for straight clicks.
Google ahs daily limits so you can stop a rampant fraud attempt and only lose the day's spend. But that is why this is a new area in marketing and has to develop its own methodology.

[Dave Hawley]

To stop click fraud, I would assume it's simply a matter of NOT showing ads on partner Websites (AdSence). If all do this, Google would be forced into some way of stopping this.

[DrTandem1]

AussieWebmaster--

Your friend is probably a victim, if they are using PPC. Seriously, if you check your web logs and you simply see a high number of visits to the page that is linked to the PPC campaign and not much else, then that is a big clue.

Another, is a huge spike in the visits during a very short time period. This indicates that they were simply clicking on the ad and then going back to the search engine and clicking on the ad again and again and...

Seeing your ad account deplete without a correlating increase in business is yet another big tip.

In any event, the search engine will NEVER admit that you are a victim and they will NEVER refund your money.

Believe me, PPC is a money waster.

[Dave Hawley]

In any event, the search engine will NEVER admit that you are a victim and they will NEVER refund your money.

Yes they will, do and have, especially Google.


Believe me, PPC is a money waster

Then how come it works for me and millions of others? It is a learning process, as are many things, but once mastered it is VERY profitable. IMO AdWords is head and shoulders above all others.

Also, if it "is a money waster" come come AdWords (one of the newest) is growing at such a HUGE rate. PPC has been around for many years and if it were a "money waster" you can bet Google would never have invested HUGE money and started their own.

DrTandem1, you sound like you tried PPC, failed, and now tar all Webmasters and PPC methods with the same brush. Slighty narrowed minded.

Even when I tell you just how good it can you simply say "sorry, don't believe you". Case of, I've mind up my mind and don't want to confuse the issue with facts.

[DrTandem1]

Dave,

If you are happy with it, fine. Whether I believe you or not will not change anything for you.

AdWords is not very new. It's been around for quite a while.

PPC is used by people that want a shortcut to the "top" of the search engine results. Unfortunately, that does not mean that their content will be relevant for the searcher. Not only that, but simply being number one in the search results will not guarantee sales. Again, most people avoid sponsored links or anything that looks like advertising on the internet. I remember when banner ads were all the rage, too.

Millions? Maybe. Satisfied with the results? Doubtful. Go through the posts on this thread. If these were comments reviewing my service, I'd be worried.

So, if it was so great, why did you request a refund that was honored?

[Dave Hawley]

Dave,

If you are happy with it, fine. Whether I believe you or not will not change anything for you.

No, neither did I say it would.


AdWords is not very new. It's been around for quite a while.

That is not what I said, re-read my other post.


PPC is used by people that want a shortcut to the "top" of the search engine results.
unfortunately, that does not mean that their content will be relevant for the searcher.

That is down to the keywords and phrases you use. There in no use blaming your mechanic if your car will not start if you never put fuel in it.


Not only that, but simply being number one in the search results will not guarantee sales.

Do you know of any guarantees when it comes to sales? No, of course not. If you think PPC is a "guarantee" of sales, well.....


Again, most people avoid sponsored links or anything that looks like advertising on the internet.

So if they don't click, you haven't paid have you.



I remember when banner ads were all the rage, too.

So do I. They died a sudden death, yet PPC's, like AdWords, continues to grow.


Millions? Maybe. Satisfied with the results? Doubtful. Go through the posts on this thread. If these were comments reviewing my service, I'd be worried.

As with most things in life, people normally only make noise about dissatisfaction not satisfaction. Besides, this forum by nature is here for the very reason of those that are dissatisfied about something. For example, the forum is full of those that cannot rank well in Google. Does that mean Google is a bad SE?


So, if it was so great, why did you request a refund that was honored?

I never did/have requested a refund. My statement was pointing out the other links in this thread about Google paying customers back for fraudulent clicks.

[DrTandem1]

Dave,

I couldn't have stated it better. Thanks.

[katangel]

Gentlemen,

Pardon me for crashing the party but I was wondering if anyone had an opinion on whether Google or Overture were preferrable for PPC?

Also, could using Overture PPC have any effect on Google Search Engine rankings? How about negatively?This may sound silly but past SEO for Google caused our Yahoo rank to drop and the owner is leery of unforeseen effects.

Opinions?

Thanks,
Adam

[crashingflwrgrl]

Someone pull my other leg, it plays Jingle Bells.

That sounds like a neat trick!

[Dave Hawley]

Hi Adam

Using any ppc click will not be the cause of a drop in rankings. The 2 are unrelated. However, there are some that say this is not true, but never offer any *solid proof*.

I have used most ppc clicks over the years and now ONLY use Google AdWords. Once mastered it can return a VERY high ROI.

Here is my recipe for success on AdWordsEach step MUST be followed exactly.

1) Don't let your AdWords show on sites using AdSense.

2) Target only counties that can afford to buy. This often means no third would countries etc. If your product/servive is local, then only show you ad to relavent countries.

3)Bid the min only, 5c pc

4)Use as many combinations of keywords and phrases as possible This is VITAL!. For example, if selling "Excel Templates" I would use

Excel Templates
Templates Excel
Xl Templates
Templates Xl
Microsoft Excel Templates
Excel Templates Microsoft
Excel Microsoft Templates
MS Excel Templates
Excel Templates MS
Excel MS Templates
Finacial Templates
etc etc

The idea with this is to exchaust every possible term that could be used. By doing this you are unlikley to fall below the 0.5% CTR that cuts out the keyword/phrase.

5) Set your daily limit VERY high. If you use steps 3 and 4 above you are *very unlikely* to reach this limit. I have some set a $600 per day and they never exceed $30.00. The idea of this is to keep your ad showing which helps a LOT when bidding the min.

****IMPORATANT****** This MUST be monitored very closely for a few days.

6)Make full use of negative keywords. Use
-Free
-Freeware
-sharware
etc

7)Mention the word "buy" or a $ value in the ad. This helps stop the freebie hunters.


Good luck!

[craven]

I worked for a smaller company that paid $2,000 per month for a one page ad in the back of our local yellow page directory.

They spent $100 for each radio spot which ran for 15 seconds each. 20 per week = $2000 per week.

They spent $4000 per month for TV spots.

An additional $2500 for a billboard ad.

Weekly newspaper ads were $1000.

Total spent $20,500 per month.

No guarantee of sales were provided by any of these media companies. Imagine that!

The company has recently filed bankruptcy and closed it's doors.

My point! Although they had tried all avenues of advertising they could never really tell which was providing results and which were a waste of money.

With Adwords you can track this information down to the very last click. See which keywords are performing best and get rid of the losers.

PPC is a godsend and ANYONE running an e-commerce site needs to be using this method to get sales.

You may not like the idea but it does work.

Click Fraud? Who cares if a few clicks are from your competitors. The bottom line is that if you put some time into this you will reap the benefits.

If you want to bitch about it then go pay $2000 for the billboard each month, run some radio spots or maybe run a 30 second commercial during Friends or the Superbowl. Because everyone knows that is a guaranteed way to get the sales :)

When it comes to advertising there is always a chance your throwing away your money! But with Adwords you at least have the chance to monitor it and do something about it!!! Not to mention the initial investment is much more affordable.

Just my 2 cents!

[DrTandem1]

Dave,

Following your recommendations reminds me of a "Far-side" cartoon. A woman is lying dead on the floor of her kitchen. The refrigerator is open and destroyed. The stove has exploded. Plates and dishes are strewn everywhere along with stuff slpatterd on the walls, etc. In the midst of this lies a cookbook called "Recipe for Disaster."

The problem with PPC is that your target audience doesn't click on it, your competition does. Also, selecting "as many combinations of keywords and phrases as possible" is like spreading your army too thin.

Craven,

Radio ad and TV spots should be used with demographics. Advertising Geritol on the most popular show for 18-35 year olds will not produce results. Advertising it on a show that attracts the elderly may. These demographics are available from the station in which you are puurchasing air time. That is how they set their rates.

This is much more targeted than PPC. Yes, you can track your PPC hits. That's like saying, "Yep, this rival stole my investment 459 times." Many keywords have double or more meanings.

Magazines are interesting. Not only do you need to watch the demographics, but they also have a longer lifetime than radio or TV or any other medium. Just visit the waitng area of any business.

Many ad campaigns are very sophisticated. A better way to track results for PPC would be to use different URLs for different keywords and phrases. However, it's very easy to predict that the ones your top rivals use will be the ones depleting your account.

However, why not just give Dave money to use on PPC? He has a 250% for ROI. Have him simply give you a share of the pie.

Adam,

No, using PPC will not affect your results in search engines, including Google.

[Dave Hawley]

The problem with PPC is that your target audience doesn't click on it, your competition does.

That really is making a mountain out of a mole hill. This has rarely happened to me and most that use ppc. If it does, the cost is more than covered by extra sales.



Also, selecting "as many combinations of keywords and phrases as possible" is like spreading your army too thin.

This only shows that you have no idea on how AdWords works. Tell me, have you ever used it?

DrTandem1, please offer some of your experience with Adwords and other ppc, so we can be sure of how not to do it.

It's a poor tradesmen that blames his tools!

[DrTandem1]

Dave,

I really don't want to turn this into a flame. I think that the novice should be aware that PPC is rife with fraud. It is not the magic pill that you claim and its one purpose is to make the search engine money.

If you find the small link on Google's AdWords for their terms, this is an interesting item:

<<No Warranty. GOOGLE MAKES NO WARRANTY, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION WITH RESPECT TO ADVERTISING AND OTHER SERVICES, AND EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS THE WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF NONINFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE.>>

So, for all their hype, such as "Start gaining new customers in less than 15 minutes.", they really don't back it. Another interesting tidbit is that Google actually encourges you to click on your own ad to keep it ranked highly:

<<Rank is determined by combination of CPC and clickthrough rate. If an ad is irrelevant to users, they won't click on it and it will move down the page. Your relevant ads will rise, at no extra cost to you.>>

Of course, you would hope that the legitimate searcher would click on your ad, but if they don't, it will fall lower and lower for that search term. Thus, you will be even less likely to be at the top. So, using every possible keyword or phrase as you have suggested is pointless. The reason you are using PPC in the first place is to jump to the top of the results.

A tradesman knows which tools to use for the job. I prefer using a hammer for pounding a nail, not a rock.

[Dave Hawley]

Dave,

I really don't want to turn this into a flame.

No, neither do I. But don't wory as I wont "turn this into a flame". Please don't use that as an excuse.


I think that the novice should be aware that PPC is rife with fraud.

That is totally untrue and blown WAY out of proportion. Please show me *evidence/proof* that "PPC is rife with fraud".


It is not the magic pill that you claim and it's one purpose is to make the search engine money.

I don't recalling claiming it was a "magic pill", which means, like a lot of statements you have posted, you simply made it up.

Of course one of it's purposes is to make money for SE. You don't need to be Einstein to work that one out. Tell me one service of ANY business that is not intented to make that business money? If we follow that line of thinking we should never buy any product, or service, from anyone as the seller is making money. Rather weak argument don't you think?


If you find the small link on Google's AdWords for their terms, this is an interesting item:

<<No Warranty. GOOGLE MAKES NO WARRANTY, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION WITH RESPECT TO ADVERTISING AND OTHER SERVICES, AND EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS THE WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF NONINFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE.>>

What's so interesting about that? Pretty much a standard agreement to any servive. Certainly goes no-where to proving ppc is a waste of money and rife with fraud as you claim.


So, for all their hype, such as "Start gaining new customers in less than 15 minutes.", they really don't back it.

"Back it" ? What/how do expect them to "back it"?


Another interesting tidbit is that Google actually encourges you to click on your own ad to keep it ranked highly:

No idea if they do or not, I have never seen it though. Where is this written?



<<Rank is determined by combination of CPC and clickthrough rate. If an ad is irrelevant to users, they won't click on it and it will move down the page. Your relevant ads will rise, at no extra cost to you.>>

That's right. Use that advise wisley and you will make money. Use it to read "encourges you to click on your own ad to keep it ranked highly" and you are your own worst enemy.


Of course, you would hope that the legitimate searcher would click on your ad, but if they don't, it will fall lower and lower for that search term. Thus, you will be even less likely to be at the top. So, using every possible keyword or phrase as you have suggested is pointless.

No sorry, wrong. It is the complete opposite, By using every possible keyword and phrase you are ensuring your ad does NOT show too often for any one keyword phrase, thus you KTR is kept high in most cases. Perhaps you should try first then differ. Good idea?


The reason you are using PPC in the first place is to jump to the top of the results.

Wrong again! You should use PPC to basically make a $1.00 by spending 50c. Or, simply put, increase your bottom line. It's no wonder you are unable to make money from ppc with that line of thinking.


A tradesman knows which tools to use for the job. I prefer using a hammer for pounding a nail, not a rock.

Spoken from ignorance or experience? If the latter, I again ask you to share.

DrTandem1, you are simply proving that you have no idea on how to use PPC to your advantage. In fact, it sounds like you have never used ppc (in particular AdWords) in your life?

If I and many others can make money from ppc, there is little reason why most that sell online cannot. If you cannot use it to make money (sounds like you have never even tried) then that sais quite a bit about you ability to operate a succesful online business.


Getting back to "I think that the novice should be aware". That applies to what you are spreading here. You yourself are "the" novice when it comes to ppc and getting traffic (shown in a post above), yet you are feeding the "novice" made up information.

As I asked before, please share with us your experience with ppc and how you went about it.

[Nargule]

Following your recommendations reminds me of a "Far-side" cartoon. A woman is lying dead on the floor of her kitchen. The refrigerator is open and destroyed. The stove has exploded. Plates and dishes are strewn everywhere along with stuff slpatterd on the walls, etc. In the midst of this lies a cookbook called "Recipe for Disaster."

I love it! Text based comics. Reminds me of the old RP games I played on my Apple IIgs.

Here's another one:

In the first frame, Dilbert is listening to his pointy-haired boss explain that "The key to success is to remain optimistic even when you fail."

The second frame is a close-up of Dilbert asking "What's the point of succeeding if failing feels good too?"

The third frame has the pointy-haired boss replying "I'll read another page of that magazine article tomorrow and get back to you."