Importance of Site Map

[ksu]

Please, explain why Site Map is important?

[macdesign]

The theory says by having a site map at the second level of your site hierarchy, then all links to your site get indexed by search engine crawlers that limit the depth of searching.

[Andilinks]

If you use JavaScript navagation on your site the site map is a good place to provide non-JS links to everything. This also provides access to non-java browsers and covers other accessibility issues.

And as a bonus if you design it well all your visitors may find it helpful in understanding your site..

Andi

[cbp]

Google in their guidelines say to use a site map - therefore it must be important :-)

CBP

[fathom]

The theory says by having a site map at the second level of your site hierarchy, then all links to your site get indexed by search engine crawlers that limit the depth of searching.

That's a big point - "a page where everything is one click (link) away".

If however, you have a small website where every page can be accessed from the mainpage - a sitemap is redundant.

[Andilinks]

a sitemap is redundant.

Redundant navigation is good design. A good interface will have several ways to do the same thing so each user can pick the most comfortable option.

Far too many web sites (and applications and operating systems) offer a single nav option--"my way or the highway." This discourages users, a fine thing if you don't like users.

Andi

[Kenai Alaska]

Just thought I would throw my two cents in here.
I am in the process of rebuilding one of our sites and thus built the site map first as a tool for me to keep focused on a layout that has taken nearly three weeks to finish. It’s built to be easy to add on to as new information is requested. This site map will be very helpful to the visitors as a quick reference for information and trip planning. The site map is being designed as a tool for design layout and visitors reference. Every page will be listed within the category it represents and followed by a short one sentence page topic. We hope to complete the site by late fall and then add to it each year. The top folder we are currently working in is simply labeled “2004”. Inside will be all the information and photo indexes from our “Alaska flying adventures” for the 2004 year.
I guess what I am trying to say is the site map is a tool where the structure is easily portrayed to the visitors as well as the webmaster as time goes on. Every page of the site is only one click away and on a site that is starting to get rather large, this can be a blessing.
When we upload the site this fall, I will post it in the site design arena for all to review.

[Mel]

Don't forget that a properly constructed sitemap can provide relevant anchor text links to each of your pages in addition to all the other advantages.

[Rajeev Ranjan Singh]

Site map is a Atlas for the vistor as well as the crawler.

[mawells]

I have several sites that use JavaScript navigation and they all have a site map for the search engines to follow. However, it just came to my attention that some of my sites were getting indexed and others were not. So, I took a look at my <noscript> tags and realized that they were using Meta refresh tags in the <noscript> area. (This is put in by the software I use to create the navigation - AllWebMenus). In one case, I removed that meta information and replaced it with the contents of my site map. Yahoo was then able to grab all of the pages of the site, but Google has only added two more pages.

The other site, I replaced that meta refresh tag with a link to the site map page. Time will tell if Google indexes more pages. Currently they only have 4 pages indexed of this site.

The ones that seem to have been indexed okay, I used a transparent GIF, which I needed as a spacer, and linked it to the site map page.

For those who don't already know, you can see how many pages Google has indexed of your site by typing in "Site:mydomain.com" where "mydomain" is your domain. Note there is no space between the colon and your domain name.

[Jeremy21b]

A sitemap can be very useful for both visitors and search engine spiders. I ran into a problem with my sitemap though. I used keywords in the anchor text on the sitemap links. Now the sitemap shows up in search results instead of the optimized content pages. It's nice that we at least show up in results, but with the wrong page it doesn't attract the targeted market and it ranks lower than the other page would. Anyone know how I can fix this? Is the only way to get rid of the keywords on the sitemap or is there something else I should try? Perhaps I should optimize the page for just the word sitemap with some larger fonts and also decrease font size for the terms that I don't want the page to show up for. Any thoughts on this? thanks.

[Dave Hawley]

I used keywords in the anchor text on the sitemap links. Now the sitemap shows up in search results instead of the optimized content pages

The anchor text would boost the pages that the links point to, not the other way around.


Is the only way to get rid of the keywords on the sitemap or is there something else I should try?

You are kidding right? You have really thought about de-optimizing a page in hope others will rise???? Again, you have it all back-to-front.

[Mac 5]

How about a sitemap (list of links) to external sites that link to you, so the engines can find them?

[mawells]

>>How about a sitemap (list of links) to external sites that link to you, so the engines can find them?<<

Hmmm.... now I think you're bordering on what is called a "link farm." Could be risky - depends on the purpose. If the links are of genuine value to site visitors, then it's probably okay. If the intent is just to build up PageRank - it will probably backfire.

[Andilinks]

now I think you're bordering on what is called a "link farm." Could be risky

No, not bordering, that would be a full-fledged link farm, and almost certain to cause problems.

A one-for-one correspondence of reciprocal links all on a single page could not be a coincidental occurance.

Andi

[Jeremy21b]

No actually anchor text does affect the page that the link is on. Text within a 'a href' tag is considered important text on a page to Google. Anchor text affects both the page it links to and the page that the link is on. De-optimizing our sitemap would improve rankings because other pages are optimized to certain key phrases. So although it has a lower page rank, it has better keyword density and better optimization techniques implemented. A listing in a search result just titled 'sitemap' would get very few clicks as well. I don't have anything back-to-front, but would appreciate some advice.

[Mel]

Hi Jeremy
If you "deemphasize" your sitemap your other pages that its links point to will rank lower since they will lose the benefit of the anchor text linking to them.

Each page stands on its own, if individual pages are not ranking well the only way to help them rank higher is to optimize the pages and links pointing to them better, not the other way round.

[Dave Hawley]

Hi Jeremy21b

Honestly, you do have your logic back-to-front.

What you are think of doing is aiming for the lowest common denominator. Aim to bring the other pages up, not lower the pages that are ranking well.

[Andilinks]

yeah, what Mel and Dave said.

[rex_b]

is there anything that can generate a sitemap automatically?

[flood6]

is there anything that can generate a sitemap automatically?

Here (http://www.hotscripts.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?bool=AND&query=sitemap&catid=all) is a search on HotScripts for "Sitemap". They have several applications that can generate sitemaps. Most are free.

While you most likely won't have a problem with most of the scripts, it might be better to use pure standards-compliant hand-written html, though. No javascript, dynamic links, or other stumbling blocks for your users or spiders to overcome.

[Andilinks]

Yes, quite a few. I've never used any, but the I have used the Xenu Link Sleuth for extensively for over a year as a link checker and it claims to have a site map generation feature. I have heard from others that it works well, there are other such programs as well. Xenu has the one most sought after feature though: it's freeware.

http://home.snafu.de/tilman/xenulink.html

It does use server resources heavily for link checking, probably will for site map generation too. It would be best to use a local copy of your site if you use shared servers or if your server resources are maxed out.

Andi

[poab]

I disagree, and without meaning to cause any offence my opinion is as follows:

If you add a site map to your site the message you're giving your customers is "You're about to get lost because our site, like our company is a confused mess".

Build sites with strong architecture, create navigation using hyperlinks styled with CSS and spend time on your content and you'll not need a site map. (The exception being very large sites with 1000+ pages.)

If a site map really does make your website easier to navigate then you've done a poor job of building the primary navigation.

[atimmins]

Rex_b:
I use a freeware program I found that does a very good job. It's called XENU Link Sleuth, I do not recall where I found it, but I'm sure if Google it you will find it. If you can't email me and I can send you the zipped file.

Anchor Text and Site Maps:
I have a client whose site was in .asp. I did my normal optimization, including using Xenu to create the site map. When I sent him my 8 week report he was concerned by the fact that the site map was indexed. Xenu uses the Title tags for naming the links on the site map, so the keyword heavy page ranked well for neaqrly all his phrases. The client actually wanted it de-optimized so that it would'nt rank. Once I explained that the site map wasd actually adding relevance for the pages it linked to, by describing what they about, he had a great question. He wanted to know if he could add content to the page. I thought it was a great idea and felt bad that I did'nt think of it myself. Such is life in SEO, we learn in un-expected ways!

Site Maps and Redundancy:
In no uncertain terms let me say that in my opinion site maps are required and not redundant. Well more to the point they are but for important reasons. As Andilinks points out many of the best OS's and software packages allow users to do things in multiple ways. This is one of the reasons M$ Windows became so popular, any idiot can figure out how to do what they need to do. Treat internet users like children, not because they are, but you never know who will be using you site, and possibly add to your bottem line. Redudant navigation is needed for those vistors who are not internet savy, and do not realize that to see your other links they have to hold their mouse over really COOL Java nav links.

[Andilinks]

If you add a site map to your site the message you're giving your customers is "You're about to get lost because our site, like our company is a confused mess".

No, that is not the message at all. Good design is redundant and allows multiple ways to acheive the same goal because people have varying styles of surfing--some prefer a site map.

Additionally, Googlebot and other agents like site maps.

Though I do agree that the site map shouldn't be offered as the primary navigation, just as an alternative.



Andi

[braknews]

If you add a site map to your site the message you're giving your customers is "You're about to get lost because our site, like our company is a confused mess".In my opinion a site map says the opposite. It says that this site is structured in this manner.


Googlebot and other agents like site maps.If you are using any kind of menu that is not "plain-old" HTML the bots may not be able to read it. I would suggest you put a link to your site map on your home/main page so that you can make sure that the bots can find it.

[Canadian101]

[quote]I used keywords in the anchor text on the sitemap links. Now the sitemap shows up in search results instead of the optimized content pages

Back to this comment. This is something that we have been noticing as well. I find this very strange since the links on the sitemap only make a brief reference to the actual page that is optimized for the kw's. You would think that the page optimized for kw =x would achieve a top ranking, rather than the site map sitting in a #1 position for the kw. Especially when there are so many other terms present on the sitemap (in link descriptions and anchor text). Perhaps it has to do with the overall theming of the page???

[webiff]

Well I would love to take part in this topic because i have a city portal website of Pakistan known as www.apnahyderabad.com and i have created a SITE MAP of this website, the best part is that i have redirect 404 page to site map page, if users not find the appropriate page or get an error they will automatically redirect site map.

visit www.apnahyderabad.com

Best Regards,
Furqan Durvesh

[Andilinks]

...i have redirect 404 page to site map page,

I like this, but I have to wonder, do the hackers/crackers probes that normally generate 404's get redirected to the site map?

Does this have any ill effect?

I usually have very few of these but occasionally I get hit with hundreds at a time. Wouldn't that cause some problem if redirected to an actual page?
I have my 404 page down to a lean 400 bytes for that reason.

Andi

[Conficio]

A sitemap can be very useful for both visitors and search engine spiders. I ran into a problem with my sitemap though. I used keywords in the anchor text on the sitemap links. Now the sitemap shows up in search results instead of the optimized content pages. It's nice that we at least show up in results, but with the wrong page it doesn't attract the targeted market and it ranks lower than the other page would. Anyone know how I can fix this? Is the only way to get rid of the keywords on the sitemap or is there something else I should try? Perhaps I should optimize the page for just the word sitemap with some larger fonts and also decrease font size for the terms that I don't want the page to show up for. Any thoughts on this? thanks.
Did anyone try

<meta content="NOINDEX,FOLLOW" name="robots">

for the sitemap page? This should get the sitemap page out of the search results. But the question is, does it still help your page rank? Any decent bot should still find all pages in your site.

I usually send the sitemap only to the search engines for publishing.

K<o>

[braknews]

Did anyone try

<meta content="NOINDEX,FOLLOW" name="robots">

for the sitemap page? This should get the sitemap page out of the search results. But the question is, does it still help your page rank? Any decent bot should still find all pages in your site.

I usually send the sitemap only to the search engines for publishing.
My site map has that meta tag & while I do not have a good a PR as some of you I am still a 5.

[flood6]

I have my 404 page down to a lean 400 bytes for that reason.

I hate to go off topic for a minute, but I just wanted to add that IE will use the default 404 error page instead of the custom one if the custom one is less than 512 bytes.

Two articles about it:

http://websiteowner.info/tutorials/server/customerrors.asp
(poorly formatted, the content is below menu, but good information)

http://www.404-error-page.com/404-error-page-too-short-problem-microsoft-ie.shtml

I went to http://andilinks.com/sdfgfdsg in IE on Windows ME and got the default 404. Mozilla, of course gives your custom page.

I don't know if you knew this or not, Andi, I just wanted to pass that along in case someone else did not realize it.

[TrafficProducer]

Site Map info:-

http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?p=88439&highlight=#88439

[Andilinks]

I don't know if you knew this or not, Andi,Actually I had heard this but thanks for letting me know anyway. :)

The default page also gives a link to my root directory so it doesn't make much difference.

Thanks again,

Andi

[atimmins]

I actually have all my error pages point to my site map. The therory being is you really never know if someone who decides to link to you, mistalenly may use the wrong page URL. On the other hand if you make changes to your site, as in a redesign, and pages get renamed, moved, or just removed, anyone with a bookmark to that page will at least see your new site map.

[Jörn Malek]

Our main portalhttp://www.1-costaricalink.comhas over 18'000 pages. I made 16 site-maps for the most important ones. A few weeks ago I took the no index comand off and every now and than I find a site mpa as a search result. I don't really know if I like that. How should the head of a site-map look like?
Here is a site map:http://www.1-costaricalink.com/site_map_10.htm

Have a happy day
Jörn Malek

[Andilinks]

Well, my site map has the same PageRank as my main page and I have no robot instructions on it.

It is referred as a search result often. But as a site map it is well ordered and easy to understand so the searcher should have no trouble then linking to the appropriate page and will also get some flavor of the rest of the site along the way.

I have no problem with this.

But then I'm not selling anything except the site itself as search destination.

Andi

[Andilinks]

How should the head of a site-map look like?


The site map should be one schematic which can direct the visitors to the page they need to go to easily and transparently, no external links, nothing confusing... I think having 16 site maps for one site is confusing. Perhaps one overall site map with subsidiary pages would be better.

Andi

[Mel]

I disagree, and without meaning to cause any offence my opinion is as follows:

If you add a site map to your site the message you're giving your customers is "You're about to get lost because our site, like our company is a confused mess".

Build sites with strong architecture, create navigation using hyperlinks styled with CSS and spend time on your content and you'll not need a site map. (The exception being very large sites with 1000+ pages.)

If a site map really does make your website easier to navigate then you've done a poor job of building the primary navigation.

I disagree. A site map is an index to your site, just like the index of a book, and helps viewers find the content they are looking for quickly and easily. It can be of even more assistance if you say organize your navigation menu system by topic and your sitemap by alphabet there are two different ways of finding things.

[Mel]

How should the head of a site-map look like?


The site map should be one schematic which can direct the visitors to the page they need to go to easily and transparently, no external links, nothing confusing... I think having 16 site maps for one site is confusing. Perhaps one overall site map with subsidiary pages would be better.

Andi

In many cases it could be Andi, but in this case the site maps are organized as alphabetized groups of hotel whichresults in a convient reference to finding information on a specific hotel.

[Dave Hawley]

for the sitemap page? This should get the sitemap page out of the search results

I just don't get this line of thinking. Why would anyone NOT want one of their site pages ranking well?




I disagree, and without meaning to cause any offence my opinion is as follows:

If you add a site map to your site the message you're giving your customers is "You're about to get lost because our site, like our company is a confused mess".

Build sites with strong architecture, create navigation using hyperlinks styled with CSS and spend time on your content and you'll not need a site map. (The exception being very large sites with 1000+ pages.)

If a site map really does make your website easier to navigate then you've done a poor job of building the primary navigation.

Like Mel, I do not agree with this. A Site map offer choice and if nothing else, another page for Google to eat up.

It's a bit like having a brick and mortar business with a front on 2 Streets. You have the choice of a door on both Streets, or only one. I know which I would go for.

[Andilinks]

If the analogy is of a web site to a book, then the Site Map is the "Table of Contents."

An alphabetical listing is not a site map, it is an index. This is unfortunately confused by the academic minds who originally named the default page "index," but I would maintain that a site map should not be an alphabetical listing.

A "map" is more of a visual analogy, not an index or alphabetical listing.

Calling an alphabetical listing a site map is confusing.

Andi

edited for clarity

[Jörn Malek]

First I want to thank you all for the different imput. I just changed my robot file again to allow site-maps to be indexed. Thanks !

Well my site-maps were never intended to be an alphabetical listing. But since one should not put more than 100 links on one page if it should get spidered or indexed, I had to create some kind of order. So far I always had the impression, that the sitemap fits mainly the purpose, to help spiders not to have to search several levels down. As I mentioned before my 16 site-maps only list the most important pages of the site. The Site Map nr. 1 for instance http://www.1-costaricalink.com/site_map_1.htm contains my most important first level pages and have nothing to do with alphabetical order. With so many hotels and every day one or two new ones that need to be added to the site map (tody for instance hotel cala luna on the site map 11) I figured that this is the best way to go about. What I am not sure is my head. What should go into the head of a site-map (revisit, <META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="FOLLOW"> is this all correct?

Have a happy day
Jörn

[Dave Hawley]

Hi Jörn

No need to use:
<META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="FOLLOW">

By default SE spiders will follow all HTML links.

[Jörn Malek]

Hi Jörn

No need to use:
<META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="FOLLOW">

By default SE spiders will follow all HTML links.


Thanks Dave,
I always wondered why people put this just on site-maps and not on other pages.

Have happy day (night)
Jörn

[DrTandem1]

Site maps are important, as they are one link to the rest of your site for search engines. The other reason to have one, especially on a large, corporate site, is these types of sites are usually put together by a number of people or teams. Many times a human visitor can not find what they want, until they visit the site map.

It never ceases to amaze me how often I can't find something that should be readily available on a site. I liken it to using the "Help" feature on Microsoft OSs.

[rubbadubbin]

you said:

"The theory says by having a site map at the second level of your site hierarchy, then all links to your site get indexed by search engine crawlers that limit the depth of searching."

how do i set the site map page to the second levle of my site hierarchy? and what levle should my pages all be whats this all about could you expound on this hierarchy you spoke about. i would realy apreciate it seing as how i just spent over an hour so i could post this. forgot my user name and pasword i read in here all the time and you should see and hear more from me now.
thanks guys,]
respectfully,
Bryan Laughead

[DrTandem1]

rubbadubbin--

That simply means to have a link to your site map on your Home (index.html) file.

[lucks]

Add title tags to links in your sitemap. Then submit the SiteMap to the Search Engines instead of the home page. and See all your pages getting indexed.

If any visitor lands up on your sitemap page instead of the home page, it isn't a wrong thing either, as the visitor will have a chance to view and decide which page he wants to go.

Treat the site map as an INDEX of a book. Won't u like to go thru the index before u go to the relevant topic?? I think this will answer ur doubt!

Thanks
Lucks

[Mel]

If the analogy is of a web site to a book, then the Site Map is the "Table of Contents."

An alphabetical listing is not a site map, it is an index. This is unfortunately confused by the academic minds who originally named the default page "index," but I would maintain that a site map should not be an alphabetical listing.

A "map" is more of a visual analogy, not an index or alphabetical listing.

Calling an alphabetical listing a site map is confusing.

Andi

edited for clarity

See your point in some case Andi,but in many cases such as Jorns there alphbetization of the site map lends order to a large chunk of links and lets your viewers find things easier. But its still a site map which is just an ordered listing of links to every page in your site.

Whether that order is hierarchal or alpahbetical is a moot point IMO.

[poab]

Normally I'd prefer to limit my posts to one per thread unless I have something particularly valuable to add but seeming as everyone on the planet disagrees with me :) I think I'm allowed a second:

The arguments presented here are limited very much by their adherence to the notion of 'pages' which I'm afraid is already old hat in web design. Very few sites are constructed in this manner anymore.

Equally I'm yet to see anyone, provide a real argument as to why a site map is so important; something that cannot be bested by good content and well structured mark-up.

Somebody please - prove me wrong instead of stamping your feet because you always have and always will build a site map without even thinking.

[Dave Hawley]

The arguments presented here are limited very much by their adherence to the notion of 'pages' which I'm afraid is already old hat in web design. Very few sites are constructed in this manner anymore.

Not sure what that means. Don't all sites have 'pages'?


Equally I'm yet to see anyone, provide a real argument as to why a site map is so important; something that cannot be bested by good content and well structured mark-up.

It gives the user another choice of navigation.

It gives the site a page with good keyword anchor text.

I helps spiders index all pages when/if a site uses forms of navigation that spiders cannot follow.

It ends up being another page in Google.


Somebody please - prove me wrong instead of stamping your feet because you always have and always will build a site map without even thinking.

Now it's time for you to stop feet stompimg and provide an argument as to why one shouldn't build a site map?

[Mel]

Normally I'd prefer to limit my posts to one per thread unless I have something particularly valuable to add but seeming as everyone on the planet disagrees with me :) I think I'm allowed a second:

The arguments presented here are limited very much by their adherence to the notion of 'pages' which I'm afraid is already old hat in web design. Very few sites are constructed in this manner anymore.

Equally I'm yet to see anyone, provide a real argument as to why a site map is so important; something that cannot be bested by good content and well structured mark-up.

Somebody please - prove me wrong instead of stamping your feet because you always have and always will build a site map without even thinking.

Well Poab, the search engines rank pages not sites, so you'll have to forgive our preoccupation with pages, but that said, a sitemap is a page which not only helps those uses who can't figure out how that state of the art menu works, but provides a convenient set of all the links on one page which saves bots from having to look in every nook and cranny of every page to find all the links.

If its well built it will provide a legitimate set of anchor text links to every page in the site which helps the rankings of all the pages.

Other than that? 'cause Google said so.

[poab]

Now it's time for you to stop feet stompimg and provide an argument as to why one shouldn't build a site map?

LOL :)

Having read my previous post I think it comes across as more than a little agressive, sorry if I offended anyone. I still think I'm right though.

I'm not suggesting that there is a good reason not to add a site map. I'm saying there isn't a good reason to add one which is an important distinction. A site map does not exist by default, you have to add one, so the question is not why shouldn't I? but rather why should I?


Well Poab, the search engines rank pages not sites, so you'll have to forgive our preoccupation with pages,

Nope - search engines rank content. Or, files if you prefer. A 'page'is a non-dynamic static file less and less of which are being used.


It gives the user another choice of navigation.

Why is one form of navigation not sufficient? Ask yourself why you need to offer the user another use. I don't know how to say this more clearly If your navigation is not sufficient then there's something wrong with your navigation.


It gives the site a page with good keyword anchor text.

Conventional wisdom would suggest that all your content should have good keyword anchor text.


I helps spiders index all pages when/if a site uses forms of navigation that spiders cannot follow.

If search engines are priority then why on earth would you use a form of navigation that search engines can't follow? Because it looks pretty? You have your priorities confused.


It ends up being another page in Google.

By that token the more of your 'pages' you have the better. Promotional writing is always about conveying a message in the most condensed form possible. If you prefer to ignore that then keep writing content until you have a site with content the length of War and Peace - it would have the same effect.


a sitemap is a page which not only helps those uses who can't figure out how that state of the art menu works

Again why are you using a state of the art menu? Previously I refered to a menu built with standards compliant mark-up and styled with CSS. It's called standards compliant for a reason, and it has a considerably better chance on a search engine than anything else.


saves bots from having to look in every nook and cranny of every page to find all the links

If your site's structured properly then bots will find it as easy as users to access all of your site.


If its well built it will provide a legitimate set of anchor text links to every page in the site which helps the rankings of all the pages

Hooray! One good reason :)


Other than that? 'cause Google said so.

Oh please...has it occured to you that google (and all search engines) want to index as many sites as possible, and site map recommendations are for those people who aren't building sites that enable easy indexing?



Still not convinced, but I'd prefer not to continue highjacking the thread. Thanks for your thought though.

[DrTandem1]

There are different ways to construct or design a site map. This depends on your site. Some use graphical layouts. These are great for the human visitor, but the search engines will have a difficult time indexing them, if at all.

I would recommend visiting other sites and taking note of how they did it. This will give you ideas on what you may want to do.

In actuality, your Home page should be a site map. To be practical, you want it to be pleasing to the eye of the visitor and not just a lot of links. So, you focus on key areas with the Home page and include the site map for both the human and robot visitors.

Alphabetical listings are okay, but you never can be sure how the visitor will phrase their search. Will it be "red paint" or "cherry red paint?" So, I would recommend headings that are very generic and then possibly a sub-listing of the topic that could be either alphabetized or categorized further.

[Dave Hawley]

site map does not exist by default, you have to add one, so the question is not why shouldn't I? but rather why should I?


No page (or file if you prefer) exists by default. You could put the same blanket argument to any page (file). In fact, that one would apply to everything.


Why is one form of navigation not sufficient?


It should be, but the fact is many aren't. A Site map is a good 'basic' foundation of site.

[/quote]Conventional wisdom would suggest that all your content should have good keyword anchor text.


Yes that's right and a Site map is considered 'content' is the eye of the spider.....grasshopper ;o)


By that token the more of your 'pages' you have the better. Promotional writing is always about conveying a message in the most condensed form possible. If you prefer to ignore that then keep writing content until you have a site with content the length of War and Peace - it would have the same effect.



Totally dissagree. "Promotional writing" and Web site marketing are 2 different beasts. "Site maps" fits the latter.




If your site's structured properly then bots will find it as easy as users to access all of your site.

Another "If" in reply of a question you asked. If my grandma had &^%$ she'd be my Granpa :)

Oh please...has it occured to you that google (and all search engines) want to index as many sites as possible, and site map recommendations are for those people who aren't building sites that enable easy indexing?[quote]

Err yes. Are you trying to say there isn't loads of content out there that Google hasn't got?

Anyway goodnight back in the morning.

[mawells]

Posh, I don't think anyone is saying that you HAVE to have a site map for every site. But, there are ocassions when a site, by design, needs to use dynamic navigation.

Case in point: Site has 50 pages - that's not a terrible lot of pages, but 50 links running down the side of each page is awkward to use. I know you can list just the main links and then drill down as you go to each main page topic, but I am of the belief that a site visitor should be able to access ANY page from ANY page. In other words, once they land on your home page (or any other page of your site) they should be no more than 1 click away from their intended destination. With a site of 20, 30, 50 pages or more it requires some drop-down menus, usually written in JavaScript.

Now, this is great navigation for most site visitors (as long as they have JavaScript enabled), but it's a road block for many search engine robots.

So, to help those robots and those visitors with JavaScript disabled, we provide a Site Map. Is that so terrible?

[Conficio]

Nope - search engines rank content. Or, files if you prefer. A 'page'is a non-dynamic static file less and less of which are being used.
Sorry poab,
search engines have no glue what content is, in the human understanding. They try to mimic with primitive ways to help you find something that has a similarity with what you are looking for. Content means semantics and SE have no idea of it, at least not yet and the practical ones.

I also don't think file = page. Because the pages I see on my screen contain many files, that contribute to the rendering of it - HTML, CSS, JavaScript, Images, etc. With todays capabilities the page I see might be even dynamic (animated gif, Flash, Java Applets, reloading JavaScript), so I'm not sure about the non-dynamic part. And I don't know what is used instead of pages in your sense?

I'd say a page is the result of requesting a URL and rendering it in a browser. Even if it is composed from multiple URLs it is what I get to see till for at least a while or till I request another URL (click, etc.).

Just my five cents to the wisdom here
K<o>

[Conficio]

In actuality, your Home page should be a site map.

Hi DrTandem,
I'd advise against this. Your home page should be your newsletter.

Think of it in the analogy of a book. Do you always go through the Index, when you return to a book? how often do you return to your books anyhow? what makes people come back is news. So put up a collection of the new things on your home page and write it as a news paper does. Post your current sales items or your latest client story.

It also gives your visitor an idea that you are active and vibrant, especially if you post interesting content with dates. Sure make it also easy to get an idea what you are all about.

In addition, most links are pointing to your home page. So you get people to link to something that is always fresh. Off course if someone links to you with a create link text, but links to the home page, not to the permanent home of this content, that will loose its positive effect, the moment you post a new new son your home page. But so is life and most people will monitor your site for a while in order to understand your structure, before they link. It works for all the blogs and their perma-links.

No offense, just a different opinion

K<o>

[DrTandem1]

Conficio-

If you are going to quote a stentence of mine, please keep it in the context in which it was meant which was:

<In actuality, your Home page should be a site map. To be practical, you want it to be pleasing to the eye of the visitor and not just a lot of links. So, you focus on key areas with the Home page and include the site map for both the human and robot visitors.>

The second sentence was a part of the same thought and agrees with what you said. So, in essence, you agree with me. "Pleasing to the eye" is meant to covey that there is an attraction to a human. This can be in the form of colors, design and/or content.

The last part of that paragragraph states that the Home page best serves as the gateway to the main parts of the site and the site map is the detailed and all inclusive listing of pages.

[Dave Hawley]

In actuality, your Home page should be a site map. To be practical, you want it to be pleasing to the eye of the visitor and not just a lot of links. So, you focus on key areas with the Home page and include the site map for both the human and robot visitors.

Not good advise at all! Your homepage is just like the cover of a book. Unless you site is less than about 10 pages there is no way "your Home page should be a site map".

A site map is a site map a homepage is a homepage. Other than having a link to your site map on your home page, the 2 should never be confused.

[mrrobertstv]

we added a sitemap to our overall layout during the new design and it appears the spiders are visiting our site on a regular basis:
Googlebot (Google) 5048+58 117.13 MB 15 May 2004 - 18:16
Inktomi Slurp 3087+632 82.90 MB 15 May 2004 - 18:11
Alexa (IA Archiver) 1682+21 39.63 MB 15 May 2004 - 17:32
Unknown robot (identified by 'crawl') 824+30 19.99 MB 15 May 2004 - 14:24
Unknown robot (identified by 'robot') 827+13 16.01 MB 15 May 2004 - 18:19
WISENutbot (Looksmart) 327+4 4.86 MB 14 May 2004 - 18:16
Unknown robot (identified by hit on 'robots.txt') 0+123 20.49 KB 15 May 2004 - 13:22
Jeeves 77+23 2.18 MB 15 May 2004 - 12:53
Unknown robot (identified by 'spider') 48+14 1.39 MB 15 May 2004 - 17:30
Voila 1+1 34.37 KB 10 May 2004 - 17:10

[Conficio]

Dear DrTandem1,
your leave me confused. Do I understand you right

The Home page should be a site map, but pleasing for the human eye, which makes it a newsletter?

:) :) :)
K<o>

[Jörn Malek]

After all this interesting opinions I decided to put a menu and AdSense ads on the site map: See here the map # 1 of 16. http://www.1-costaricalink.com/site_map_1.htm. My question now is, do I have to reduce the amount of links because of that, or since the menu is on the bottom of the page it does not matter. Is this site map / alphabetical list / index / newsletter / now enough pleasing for the roaming eye in your opinion?

Have a happy day
Jörn