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MrLeN
05-05-2004, 12:05 AM
I think it should be against the law for companies to sit on thousands of domains to make a profit from them.

I've lost two domains because I forgot to re-register them and I'm being asked $688 for one and $6000 for the other.

There's no way I am going to pay that amount. I just wish it wasn't possible to do this. Greedy little worms :(

MrLeN

Linda Buquet
05-05-2004, 12:03 PM
MrLeN,

I'm sorry. That happened to me once too and it's no fun. My name was InfiniteHits.com when I used to do SEO for a living. I got off on another tangent with a new business and just spaced the registration. By the time I realized it, it was alread taken. They told me to make an offer to try to buy it back, but I just bought a new name instead.

davebarnes
05-05-2004, 07:07 PM
MrLeN,

I have no sympathy.
It is YOUR responsibility to pay attention to YOUR domain name registrations.

Many registrars offer an "automatic renewal" option. So, use one of those if you can't remember.

I had one client who sold his business (along with the corresponding website) to another company and I told (verbally and in writing) the acquiring company's IT manager to pay attention to renewals. He did not and one day www.domainname.com pointed to www.pornolio.com. They had to send $2000 USD to Russia the next day. I laughed loud and long.

,dave

LindaW
05-05-2004, 07:14 PM
This just happened to me/one of my clients. It is a rather long story. We had attempted to transfer the domain to a new registry and ended up in a nightmare. The domain was originally purchased from a reseller(I didn't do this). The actual registrar was a company in Europe. We never received the emails to approve the transfer and we could not get tech support to assist us, between the reseller and the actual registrar neither seemed to think they had any responsiblity in assisting with the problem and of course neither have a working phone number.

We finally registered a new domain for the company and intentionally let the original domain name expire. We knew we were taking somewhat of a risk, but... I monitored the domain waiting for it to be released by the registry but it never was as best as I could tell. One day it showed be held by the registrar as expired, the next day it was owned by a company in India. There is no good reason this company would want this domain name other than to hold it for ransom. The domain name is very specific to this business name and there would be a million to one chance that any other company would really have the same name and want to use it.

We are NOT going to pay the $500 asking price to get it back.

Andilinks
05-05-2004, 07:18 PM
I think it should be againsst the law for companies to sit on thousands of domains to make a profit from them.

I've lost two domains because I forgot to re-register them and I'm being asked $688 for one and $6000 for the other.


I'm sorry that you have been had this way, but what remedy would you offer? If you neglect to keep your domains current you can hardly expect the registrar to hold them for you. Was the registrar complicit in some way by not sending you a notification or billing? If part of your terms of service includes that you be billed you may have a cause for action against the registrar. Otherwise it appears to be just another classic case of "you snooze, you lose."

As for companies and individuals speculating in names I can see nothing wrong with this. Many people who speculated in names lost a lot of money, it is a risky business. The addition of new tld's and the slight deflation of the tech bubble occurring between 2000-2004 is costly to many speculators. It is a free maket at work.

Andi

Ravenhawk
05-05-2004, 07:41 PM
It has been my experience that to lose a domain name takes considerable neglect to accomplish. You get a 90, 60, 30 and 15 day notice plus up to 45 days after expiration to reclaim the domain name before it is completely cancelled and released back to the world.

I feel that if there are companies that are into speculation of domains that are not trademarked terms then they are welcome to speculate.

I guess I have no sympathy for this since there is so much warning and opportunity to renew your domain before it is lost.

David Pearson
05-05-2004, 08:33 PM
Sorry but no sympathy here either.

Every domain name I have registered for myself or for others has been either successful or not within months of site construction, once the site is successful my clients have at my recomendation extended the registration for multiple years or placed the domain name on a "subscription" status for automatic re-registration.

I also make sure that the email address used in the initial registration is a long term one (ie flyhiau@yahoo.com) and not ISP dependant and therefore lost if you change ISP's. This also saves having to update details with the registrant.

And finally I put important financial dates, such as Domain Name re-registration, Public Liabillity Insurance, Business Name Registration, and even family birthdays into a diary.

You don't expect to keep a store premises or office suite if you forget to pay the rent do you????

But all is not lost, get a new name, upload your site, contact link partners and get them to update their links to you. As long as your link partners are in the search engines you will be found. Google recently listed a new site I created within three days of placing active links to it from existing sites, no submission required even.

MrLeN
05-05-2004, 09:27 PM
I could go on and on ..and oooon and OOOOON about the how's and why's of losing my two domains. I did know about them prior, but getting them back up and running proved to be mission impossible 4.32 :(

So, now that I have lost them I don't see why anyone else should snap them up, as one poster has already described: "as ransom".

MrLeN

Andilinks
05-05-2004, 10:26 PM
So, now that I have lost them I don't see why anyone else should snap them up

No, they shouldn't. Not if they were nice. I sense a huge naiveté in the way you describe this.

If you leave your wallet lying unattended on your lawn no one should take it, that would be wrong. They would know it is wrong because it is on your property.

This is why locks are installed on doors, it is why you don't leave your valuables unattended even though others would know that it is wrong to steal them.

If you own something valuable you can depend on clever crooks to try to steal it.

This is an expensive lesson, but one you're bound to repeat if you haven't learned.

Andi

Effscot Fizz Gerald
05-05-2004, 11:51 PM
domain spec. sucks

What happened to this MrLen also happened to the Washington Post a while back (with their corporate intranet domain name, not washingtonpost.com), and the registrar was none other than Network Solutions. All the reporters had to get yahoo accounts to handle their research. What happend to the Post was probably what happened to MrLen: the contact email was an account that was not being monitored. Given the opportunity for real substantive loss, they should have to make a phone call and/or send you a paper letter as well.

Meanwhile, because of domain speculation, there is essentially not much in the way of "internet real estate." Some of the best possible domain names are now permanently vacant, to the detriment of web usability as a whole. Isn't it great that you can just type in "clipart.com" and get a library of 2.6 million clipart images? Wouldn't it be great if you could do that with everything? (or would that just increase big biz dominance of the web?) They should have given all the best "keyword" domains to nonprofits to turn into directories of all the sites associated with that term. Well, a nice idea.

And how often have you had this experience: just recently I thought up a new name for a company, and of course the domain name is for sale--not by a useful web site, but by buydomains.com with an offer to sell it for $5000. Geez. What planet must they be living on? Domain names just aren't worth that much, except in the case of the names of trademarks, and you usually can't do much with those domain names, certainly nothing in the same industry as the trademark holder. Of course, I'm about to trademark my company name which would, I think, drastically reduce the value of the domain name now that no one else in my industry is going to be able to set up a business with this name, and people in other industries would not likely want to set up a business in the name of one already in existence no matter the industry. No wonder domain speculation has lost so much money! It's self-defeating! Simply by buying a domain to resell it, you've greatly decreased it's value.

Meanwhile, I was still able to get really good alternative domain names--basically just add "inc" or "co" to the original word. So again, domain name spec. is just stupid. When was the last time you heard a domain name fetching the price of even a contaminated residential-zoned lot in Wyoming?

DrTandem1
05-06-2004, 12:22 AM
I think the blame rests with the negligence of the original owner, not the greed of the new ones. That being said, last year I wrote an article about cyber-squaters:

http://www.drtandem.com/cyber-squatters-1.htm

It doesn't deal with remembering to renew your registration, but you may find it interesting.

steveteva
05-06-2004, 01:18 AM
I m a domain broker too, we make business registering domains and selling them from $100.00 up to $1 000 000 on Ebay or Afternic or GreatDomains.
I used to have the famous domain 100best.com witch is part of Domain Record sales and sold for $30 000(business.com sold for $7 000 000, rock.com for $1 000 000....)
To get one word or two words great domains is very very hard (Must track day and night several years) and if we get it, it's like receiving an award.
I ve sold many prestigious domains in the past and if previous owners did not secure or renew their valuable domains it's their fault. I fell sorry for them but if they really care about their domain, they souldn't forget to renew it !

Retro Rev
05-06-2004, 02:27 AM
i currently own a domain with a .net extension, i would love to have a .com but it hasn't happened i've been watching the domain for some time and still waiting. i also have a similar incident with a client. we were looking to purchase a domain using their company name, lets just say part of it involved the words "east coast" & i won't give the rest. however, when i looked up the dot com version it was owned by a company in tennessee. TN i thought? that's odd why would a company that isn't on the east coast want a domain on the east coast. well turns out it's parkeed & for sale, go figure. so on one hand it drives me nuts that people will buy and hold ransom domains, on the other i want to be the guy that sweeps in a swipes the domain away too. where that leaves me i don't know, but i can feel for both sides.

joeinfo
05-06-2004, 02:55 AM
If an investor purchases abandoned real estate and turns a profit, he is a savvy investor. If a domain broker registers an abandoned domain, he is a "worm"? Please help me see the difference. I think domain investing is every bit as ethical. (Losing any asset is painful but it isn't like the domain was "grabbed" the day after it expired. You had a 30-45 day redemption period after the domain expired. Didn't you notice that your site was shut down during that period?)

MrLeN
05-06-2004, 04:54 AM
I don't recall ever having seen abandoned real estate anywhere. However, if you know of a place where I can find some land that has expired, please let me know.

After reading the posts above it seems that the divide is about 50-50. The ones for squatting are squatter's and the ones against squatting have lost something that they valued.

It's all well and good to say: "Ah well, can't help bad luck, can ya - eh?" But is it really right to make money without working for it? I'd hardly call "following a domain for years" hard work. It's the same mindset that compulsive gamblers and [full time] hobby prospectors live by: The dream of becoming rich without having to work.

I put squatters in the same class as car re possession officers, debt collectors, parking inspectors and tax auditors. Such people have to have some place in their heart that is lacking, just to be able to do their job.

There's lot's of other jobs out there and there's lots of other ways to make money. Why settle for a way where someone is affected negatively, equally as you have been rewarded. Is it really a reward, knowing that you've [practically] taken something from someone.

I can argue all day about how squatting defeats the purpose of making money (as has already been mentioned above). All squatting does it take away all the good domains, because 95% of the time no one will buy them and they have to settle for second best.

Most of the good domains online aren't even in use. How on earth is this productive?

Sure, a few greedy little worms make some money. Some make more money than they would otherwise earn in a lifetime if they had an honest heart. But what about the rest of us?

At what expense are the handful of squatters (in comparison to the rest of the 600,000,000 people online) making money?

It's lucky I am not filthy rich, because if I was, my hobby would be to sue greedy little worms just for the sake of it. I'd give the money to constructive little worms and their causes.

MrLeN

venividi
05-06-2004, 06:45 AM
[quote="Andilinks
Was the registrar complicit in some way by not sending you a notification or billing? If part of your terms of service includes that you be billed you may have a cause for action against the registrar. Otherwise it appears to be just another classic case of "you snooze, you lose."
Andi[/quote]
Something like this happened to a client of mine. I had bought the domain years ago from dotearth and he had renewed it already once or twice, the last time for two years. The domain was a normal business name, no keyword, nothing interesting to anybody but to my client.
When he resurfaced after many months telling me that his site had disappeared I found out that his domain had expired 31 days earlier and had disappeared from the search engines so I wrote to dotearth asking for an explanation. They answered they had sent the reminders as they did the previous time. Which was not true, at least I couldn't find any trace of what they claim: nobody seems to have received anything: neither the provider I know as a very serious business, nor the secretary who is a very meticulous person, nor my client. Nobody. So they sent a couple of docs and asked for 80 dollars, to retrieve the domain (plus the domain expenses). Since my client was away for business for a few days and I was unable to contact him for instructions, I thought I could as well wait until the 35th day had elapsed and get the domain back, after all who would be interested in a normal business name domain that had disappeared from the major search engines? So I started to watch and try to get it back checking 4-5 times a day for days and days but to no avail. As you can guess, this was a terrible mistake. There was someone interested, very interested: the domain name held by an honest business for 4 years now belongs to a hardcore site with self-installing dialer (when I finally saw the page, this software started installation preventing me from closing the window or the connection so I had to jump on the computer plug and pull it out). Now I am not a prudish maiden and have seen many things in 62 years but nothing so sickening.
You say we can do something to stop them? No, it costs money and above all, time.
I agree that business is business yes, but there should be a limit. This is not a matter of democracy nor of business freedom, this is anarchy. Porn sites should not be allowed to waitlist for and take over an expired domain name even if the company that owned it has closed its doors. I suggest that they be barred from using 'normal' suffixes and given a particular suffix, for example 'porn', so that you know exactly what you are going to see when you digit the name.

Valeria

steveteva
05-06-2004, 06:52 AM
I don't recall ever having seen abandoned real estate anywhere. However, if you know of a place where I can find some land that has expired, please let me know.

MrLeN

Here is a place (where I track domains to sell it) to find expired domains for free rather then subscribe and pay...

deleteddomains.com

Let me know if you are satisfied with it.

Also, the best thing to (to secure your domain)do is to get a domain name using your company name (trademark) if someone register your domain you can bring him to the law court as a cyber squatter and sure you will win.


Ps : I m not the owner of link above so I m not promoting it, that's why I did not add www. at the beginning of the domain name.

DMeeks
05-06-2004, 09:31 AM
Okay, it is his fault, but I see his point. Since this is America I'm not sure there's much we can do about it, but it is a kind of Buzzard style business. <smile> Any business that depends on the mistakes of others is not one I would take part in.

I use DirectNIC and they are great about sending several notices before any name expires.

I just don't see why anyone would "Laugh Long and Long" at someone's disappointment.

Nice!


MrLeN,

I have no sympathy.
It is YOUR responsibility to pay attention to YOUR domain name registrations.

Many registrars offer an "automatic renewal" option. So, use one of those if you can't remember.

I had one client who sold his business (along with the corresponding website) to another company and I told (verbally and in writing) the acquiring company's IT manager to pay attention to renewals. He did not and one day www.domainname.com pointed to www.pornolio.com. They had to send $2000 USD to Russia the next day. I laughed long and long.

,dave

davebarnes
05-06-2004, 09:47 AM
LindaW wrote:
I monitored the domain waiting for it to be released by the registry but it never was as best as I could tell. One day it showed be held by the registrar as expired, the next day it was owned by a company in India.

and Venividi wrote:
So I started to watch and try to get it back checking 4-5 times a day for days and days but to no avail. As you can guess, this was a terrible mistake.

Have you people never heard of www.snapnames.com ?
If you really want to catch a name as it expires AND is released by the incumbent registrar, then you have to use a robot! You can't do this manually.

MrLeN
05-06-2004, 09:50 AM
I just don't see why anyone would "Laugh Long and Long" at someone's disappointment.


The same question entered my mind.

venividi,

I agree with all that you said. I don't agree with porn being online. Just about EVERY child I know has a computer with an Internet connection. I have seen some of their messenger logs (just checking). The sites they point each other to and the emails they send to each other are rather disturbing. They giggle and think it's funny, but it's damaging.

MrLeN

davebarnes
05-06-2004, 09:56 AM
DMeeks,

I meant to say that I "laughed loud and long".

I laughed because a know-it-all twit did not pay attention and do his job as IT manager. The result was that his father (president of the company) had to pay the money to get his domain back.

The registrar in this case was Network Solutions and they held on to the domain for 45+ days AFTER expiration. This meant the kid had a 45-day grace period in which to rectify his stupidity. He did not.

,dave

MrLeN
05-06-2004, 09:59 AM
*Sigh* :(

MrLeN

DMeeks
05-06-2004, 10:00 AM
I agree! I'm not sure how it would be policed or even if it's even a good thing to try.

If someone buys real estate and waits for the value to increase, that requires more than a $15 investment and often requires insurance, maintainence, etc. That's the investment for return. Nothing wrong with that.

I have a client who actually flew the Enola Gay over Japan, Gen Paul Tibbets. His web site is TheEnolaGay.com because the guy who has EnolaGay.com is sitting on it. No big deal. This worked fine, but here's a guy who has done nothing to earn the value of that name (ie ended WWII) and yet feels fine holding that name until someone comes up with some bucks! Is it WRONG? NO. Is it right? No! Buzzards serve a role. They clean up the garbage but someone who sits on names deprives others who have a real use for the name.

I know what you're saying, and it's true. There's nothing Wrong with it. It's America and that's true. In my dream world, people don't do what they have a right to do, they do what's right. (well, I said dream world! <LOL>)

Maybe one way would be to require that any name have a site within 120 days. Okay, that won't work since people could put up a construction page for free. Just as with locks on our doors to keep out people who would steal, we have to be responsible for our own names. No problem. But, as said earlier, it's too bad that many good names will never be used because someone's holding out for a big payoff.

Thanks....Dan



I don't recall ever having seen abandoned real estate anywhere. However, if you know of a place where I can find some land that has expired, please let me know.

After reading the posts above it seems that the divide is about 50-50. The ones for squatting are squatter's and the ones against squatting have lost something that they valued.

It's all well and good to say: "Ah well, can't help bad luck, can ya - eh?" But is it really right to make money without working for it? I'd hardly call "following a domain for years" hard work. It's the same mindset that compulsive gamblers and [full time] hobby prospectors live by: The dream of becoming rich without having to work.

I put squatters in the same class as car re possession officers, debt collectors, parking inspectors and tax auditors. Such people have to have some place in their heart that is lacking, just to be able to do their job.

There's lot's of other jobs out there and there's lots of other ways to make money. Why settle for a way where someone is affected negatively, equally as you have been rewarded. Is it really a reward, knowing that you've [practically] taken something from someone.

I can argue all day about how squatting defeats the purpose of making money (as has already been mentioned above). All squatting does it take away all the good domains, because 95% of the time no one will buy them and they have to settle for second best.

Most of the good domains online aren't even in use. How on earth is this productive?

Sure, a few greedy little worms make some money. Some make more money than they would otherwise earn in a lifetime if they had an honest heart. But what about the rest of us?

At what expense are the handful of squatters (in comparison to the rest of the 600,000,000 people online) making money?

It's lucky I am not filthy rich, because if I was, my hobby would be to sue greedy little worms just for the sake of it. I'd give the money to constructive little worms and their causes.

MrLeN

DMeeks
05-06-2004, 10:04 AM
Hi Dave ...

I kinda thought that's what you meant, but I wondered why anyone would laugh at that, unless there was some bad blood. "Know-it-all twit" kinda suggests there was. <smile>

...Dan



DMeeks,

I meant to say that I "laughed loud and long".

I laughed because a know-it-all twit did not pay attention and do his job as IT manager. The result was that his father (president of the company) had to pay the money to get his domain back.

The registrar in this case was Network Solutions and they held on to the domain for 45+ days AFTER expiration. This meant the kid had a 45-day grace period in which to rectify his stupidity. He did not.

,dave

MrLeN
05-06-2004, 10:15 AM
There's nothing that can be done about squatting. Just like there's nothing that can be done about a whole heap of other things (where money is involved). If I had my way, I'd have a bill passed where a domain cannot be sold for more than face value. ie: Around $7.00

UNLESS..

There is a 3rd party that is willing to bid for the domain in a fair auction environment.

This way squatters wouldn't bother. They'd know that if they pounce on someones misfortunate error, they (by law) couldn't up the price anyway. The only way they could gain more money is to build the domain up with a site, with customers, with traffic etc.. (but that would be called work) and they wouldn't bother.

Hmm, but nothing as sensible as that would ever happen I suppose.

MrLeN

05-06-2004, 10:22 AM
Hi LeN...

Yea, maybe but what about International use. Can we enforce that if someone in Turkey buys a name? I'm out of my element here but I like the face value idea! <smile> It may not work, but a nice idea anyway.

...Dan



There's nothing that can be done about squatting. Just like there's nothing that can be done about a whole heap of other things (where money is involved). If I had my way, I'd have a bill passed where a domain cannot be sold for more than face value. ie: Around $7.00

UNLESS..

There is a 3rd party that is willing to bid for the domain in a fair auction environment.

This way squatters wouldn't bother. They'd know that if they pounce on someones misfortunate error, they (by law) couldn't up the price anyway. The only way they could gain more money is to build the domain up with a site, with customers, with traffic etc.. (but that would be called work) and they wouldn't bother.

Hmm, but nothing as sensible as that would ever happen I suppose.

MrLeN

MrLeN
05-06-2004, 10:27 AM
Is this Dan (my buddy Dan)?

Gee, you're poppin' up all over the place lately :)

Re: Your question.. yeah.. but maybe a law could be universal. Can't we have universal Internet laws? Enforced by the registarars? ..maybe the UN?

MrLeN

David Pearson
05-06-2004, 11:32 AM
Sorry MrLen, but still no sympathy.

If you forget to pay shop rent you get tossed out on your ear, someone else rents that property. It is now theirs to do what they want with it, leave it vacant or whatever. If you want the property back you will pay whatever you need to to get it back - or walk away.

Come on MrLen stop whingening, pay what the market demands, or better yet get a new premises to rent [read "domain name"] put your stock on the shelves and put up signs [read "SEO new site, and submit to the search engines"], and actively promote your new location [domain name].

You never know maybe if you redirect your anger towards a creative end, you will end up with a bigger, better site and business than ever before.

Stop complaining and get building, I'm willing to put money on it that you do better now after a set back than you did before.

MrLeN
05-06-2004, 11:41 AM
You're a Balloonatic! (lol)


Sorry MrLen, but still no sympathy.

If you forget to pay shop rent you get tossed out on your ear, someone else rents that property. It is now theirs to do what they want with it, leave it vacant or whatever. If you want the property back you will pay whatever you need to to get it back - or walk away.

That's not an accurate analogy. It would be like me renting a shop, and I forget to pay the rent. Then someone else rents it, taps me on the shoulder and says: "You can have it back for 50 times the rental you were paying".


Come on MrLen stop whingening, pay what the market demands, or better yet get a new premises to rent [read "domain name"] put your stock on the shelves and put up signs [read "SEO new site, and submit to the search engines"], and actively promote your new location [domain name].

Well, I am going to do that. But it still sucks that people do this. I have one fully operational site that's now sitting in a heap of cr*p.


You never know maybe if you redirect your anger towards a creative end, you will end up with a bigger, better site and business than ever before.

I am already using my creative energy on many things. Being creative isn't a cure for being stood on.

MrLeN

Andilinks
05-06-2004, 11:50 AM
...Just about EVERY child I know has a computer with an Internet connection. I have seen some of their messenger logs (just checking). The sites they point each other to and the emails they send to each other are rather disturbing. They giggle and think it's funny, but it's damaging.

MrLeN

The porn online is indeed excessive and disturbing. But the best thing you can do as a parent is to explain it and the nature of it to your kids. Online porn is discussed on the school bus and the playground, your child does not even need computer access to be affected.

If you do not remember your own curiosity about sex when you were a child then you have just grown too old.

Accept that it impossible to keep your child from it unless you keep them chained in the cellar. Explaining how the worst of the spy-ware and viruses are often associated with porn site will protect your children more than trying to filter content with software or spying on them yourself.

I think spying on your children has a worse potential effect on them than their viewing some naked bodies.

There is no way to keep children from thinking about sex after a certain point in their lives, only education by the parents about the nature of the porn "education" is of any value.

Just my opinion.

Andi

05-06-2004, 12:01 PM
I'd like to add my own comment on this topic:

This is not about everyone's personal responsibility to renew. Nor was the original complaint made about those who run legitimate businesses reselling domain names.

Rather it's about veritable worms who lie in waiting for a domain that is of absolutely no interest to another and snatch it out of a sheer intent to sell it back to the original holder.

Take for example an obscure, hard-to-spell family name. Who the hell wants it? Only worms who know full well that granny will be shocked to find herself visiting a porn site -- and she certainly will -- and accordingly the original domain holder will dig deep into his pocket. It's really not much different than, say, extortion.

If you were quick to take sides with these guys, shame on you. Have you no heart?

Oh, of course. I just remembered that the days of honour and scruples are over. In the cyber world, it's now pretty much a case of every man for himself (and every woman for herself, if you like).

MrLeN
05-06-2004, 12:04 PM
I'd like to add my own comment on this topic:

This is not about everyone's personal responsibility to renew. Nor was the original complaint made about those who run legitimate businesses reselling domain names.

Rather it's about veritable worms who lie in waiting for a domain that is of absolutely no interest to another and snatch it out of a sheer intent to sell it back to the original holder.

Take for example an obscure, hard-to-spell family name. Who the hell wants it? Only worms who know full well that granny will be shocked to find herself visiting a porn site -- and she certainly will -- and accordingly the original domain holder will dig deep into his pocket. It's really not much different than, say, extortion.

If you were quick to take sides with these guys, shame on you. Have you no heart?

Oh, of course. I just remembered that the days of honour and scruples are over. In the cyber world, it's now pretty much a case of every man for himself (and every woman for herself, if you like).

Yeah, that's pretty much what I think.

MrLeN

Andilinks
05-06-2004, 12:13 PM
If you were quick to take sides with these guys, shame on you. Have you no heart?


I never took sides with the people who try to swindle people legally by taking advantage of their mistakes. But I am saying that it is rather naive to think they don't exist.

If it is MrLeN's intention with his post to warn others I have no problem with it. But I cannot have a lot of sympathy for anyone who does business online and is not already aware that for many it is:
every man for himself (and every woman for herself, if you like).

Andi

MrLeN
05-06-2004, 12:22 PM
What's your point?

From reading your posts, it seems that you have the mindset: If you can't beat'em, join'em.

You seem to spend a lot of time defending people, situations and activities that the world could do without.

Sorry, but I can't be like that. It's weak.

MrLeN

DrTandem1
05-06-2004, 01:48 PM
Okay, let's look at the comparison of "anbandoned real estate." If someone fails to pay thier property taxes, the property can be put up for auction by the government. If someone doesn't pay their mortgage, the property will go into foreclosure and again it will end up in an auction.

If someone fails to renew their domain name, it is placed back into the pool where ANYONE can register it for a nominal fee. If someone pounces on a domain you failed to renew, so be it.

Now, let's look at this from another angle. The cyber-squatter may actually be doing you a favor. They don't really intend to use it for a web site, but maybe the party that failed to renew does. At least you still have an opportunity to regain it before your competition does.

So, this talk about it being unfair is really ludicrous. Renew your domains. If they lapse, they are once again fair game to the marketplace. If the "squatter" is asking an unreasonable amount, then chances are, your competition won't have it either. What could be more fair?

carol
05-06-2004, 02:09 PM
Sorry MrLeN, but I have to agree with Andi here. Her view is not "if you can't beat'em, join'em" - rather, it's mature realism.

Let's take responsibility for ourselves and our children. I'm figuring you wouldn't buy a 10-year old a bus ticket to travel to Sydney by her/himself, so why would you buy the same child an online computer and expect her/him to navigate it without proper supervision?

Let's also take responsibility for our own businesses and domain names. If we behave in an unresponsible manner, we'd better be mature enough to suffer the consequences. It's a tough world out there, and while I wish it weren't so, that's not going to help me (or help me teach my children how to) deal with it. That, in my book, is dealing from strength.

Andilinks
05-06-2004, 02:33 PM
From reading your posts, it seems that you have the mindset: If you can't beat'em, join'em.


If that is what you are reading in my posts, you are not reading with much understanding. If this is the same way you approach your business it does not surprise me that you are easily and often swindled.

Carol's assesment of my position is exactly right, "mature realism." Practice it and teach it to your children. Don't try to hide from the realities that lurk online and elsewhere, and don't try to pretend that they don't exist.

Andi

CLBridges
05-06-2004, 03:01 PM
I thought ICANN handled stuff like this? If not, then exactly what DOES their "Domain Dispute Resolution" policy cover?

csoft
05-06-2004, 03:04 PM
I figured I would add my 2 cents on domain names.

1) Any domain that is majorly critical to your business should be purchased for at least 5 years in advance and set to auto-renew.

2) NEVER use a Yahoo or other free Email provider as your domain contact addresses! Always use an address at your domain..example: michaeldomains@mydomain.com and have it forward to an email box that you will always check..This way as long as your domain is valid and being hosted, you will always get the notifications..Using a free Email account (like Yahoo), you risk the chance of your account being deleted due to lack of use.

csoft
05-06-2004, 03:14 PM
One tactic that has been going on the past few years is contacting owners of .net domains when the .com becomes available. They send them a nice message stating they would sell the .com to them for $79.95 or something like that. What's amazing is that the domain has been released and nothing stops anyone (including you) of registering it yourself for much cheaper! They inquire to see if there is interest in the domain, and then they register themselves and sell it back to you..lol..Someone was trying to do that to one of my clients..I registered the domain immediately and saved him $80.

Andilinks
05-06-2004, 04:34 PM
I thought ICANN handled stuff like this? If not, then exactly what DOES their "Domain Dispute Resolution" policy cover?

There are hundreds of different ways that a domain can come into dispute, but if you let yours lapse and someone else buys it there's no dispute.

If there was no fraud or negligence on the part of the registrar then there is little doubt how ICANN would judge this one, filing a claim would just be a waste of everyone's time.

Andi

TrafficProducer
05-06-2004, 06:23 PM
For UK names see Nominet UK http://www.nic.uk/

For

All registrars in the .biz, .com, .info, .name, .net, and .org top-level domains follow the Uniform Domain-Name Dispute-Resolution Policy (often referred to as the "UDRP").
see http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp.htm

Law.. http://www.ipwatchdog.com/cybersquatting.html

Google search
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=us+domain+name+registry+complaints&spell=1

and:-
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=cybersquatting&spell=1

An old URL I did't want is now tring being sold for $600.00.

I could do with that cash...

Having a website URL with no website, or just parked to make a profit... I understood these actions where against the rules...

Check the links above and Good Luck..

Andilinks
05-06-2004, 07:17 PM
Having a website URL with no website, or just parked to make a profit... I understood these actions where against the rules...

No rules. If it were true you'd be obliged to make a website for every domain you own, and many people collect dormant names to prevent copy-cats from stealing their traffic. That is, if you have a site at cooldomain.com, you'd want to own cooldomain.net just to keep others from using it and tricking people into thinking it was you.

Andi

MrLeN
05-07-2004, 01:47 AM
Just for the record..

I don't have any kids. I'm a 28 year old bachelor. I probably never will have any kids. Gotta find the right girl first, and that's like lookin' for a needle in a haystack :P

Also, the domains that I lost weren't crucial to my business activities. I just registered them because I (personally) liked the sound of them. They'd hardly be useful to anyone else. That's why I'm shaking my head at the prices being asked for them.

I lost the domains over a year ago, and I haven't lost any since. However, as far as I can see ..those domains are still mine. They'll be mine again, one way or another and I'm not going to pay those prices. I am thinking about how to get them back. There's no real hurry, because they're practically useless, which is why these squatters have hit a nerve.

MrLeN

CLBridges
05-07-2004, 05:24 AM
I thought ICANN handled stuff like this? If not, then exactly what DOES their "Domain Dispute Resolution" policy cover?
If there was no fraud or negligence on the part of the registrar then there is little doubt how ICANN would judge this one, filing a claim would just be a waste of everyone's time.

Andi
This just isn't true.. The UDRP (see the link in Traffic Advisor's last post) mentions nothing about fraud or negligence.. on the part of the registrar or the registerer (or "registree"? or "registrant"? whatever they're called! grin)

The following is quoted from the very first paragraph at: http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp.htm


"Disputes alleged to arise from abusive registrations of domain names (for example, cybersquatting) may be addressed by expedited administrative proceedings that the holder of trademark rights* initiates by filing a complaint with an approved dispute-resolution service provider."
(* see complete definition below)

In the administrative proceeding, the complainant must prove that each of these three elements are present: (Note, the policy uses "we" and "our" to refer to the registrar and it uses "you" and "your" to refer to the domain-name holder.)
(see http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp-policy-24oct99.htm )


(i) your domain name is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark or service mark in which the complainant has rights; and

(ii) you have no rights or legitimate interests in respect of the domain name; and

(iii) your domain name has been registered and is being used in bad faith.
Next is the definition of "Use in Bad Faith"


Evidence of Registration and Use in Bad Faith. For the purposes of Paragraph 4(a)(iii), the following circumstances, in particular but without limitation, if found by the Panel to be present, shall be evidence of the registration and use of a domain name in bad faith:

(i) circumstances indicating that you have registered or you have acquired the domain name primarily for the purpose of selling, renting, or otherwise transferring the domain name registration to the complainant who is the owner of the trademark or service mark or to a competitor of that complainant, for valuable consideration in excess of your documented out-of-pocket costs directly related to the domain name; or

(ii) you have registered the domain name in order to prevent the owner of the trademark or service mark from reflecting the mark in a corresponding domain name, provided that you have engaged in a pattern of such conduct; or

(iii) you have registered the domain name primarily for the purpose of disrupting the business of a competitor; or

(iv) by using the domain name, you have intentionally attempted to attract, for commercial gain, Internet users to your web site or other on-line location, by creating a likelihood of confusion with the complainant's mark as to the source, sponsorship, affiliation, or endorsement of your web site or location or of a product or service on your web site or location.
It's my understanding that your company name (DBA) would be considered a "service mark".

So there's what it says right there. Am I interpreting it incorrectly? (Asking everyone?!?)

Sorry for quoting so much of it, but I felt it could only help, given the subject. Much easier than two browser windows!

Carrie**

CLBridges
05-07-2004, 05:47 AM
No rules. If it were true you'd be obliged to make a website for every domain you own, and many people collect dormant names to prevent copy-cats from stealing their traffic. That is, if you have a site at cooldomain.com, you'd want to own cooldomain.net just to keep others from using it and tricking people into thinking it was you.

Andi

There should be a website for every domain! You don't have to create one for each, just point them at each other (which is quite cheap) if the names are so similar.

Now that I think about it, the "squatted" domains I've visited DO have webpages! Most of them say:


DOMAIN FOR SALE $1,000,000
Or some other equally outrageous dollar amount.

Carrie**

steveteva
05-07-2004, 06:32 AM
No rules. If it were true you'd be obliged to make a website for every domain you own, and many people collect dormant names to prevent copy-cats from stealing their traffic. That is, if you have a site at cooldomain.com, you'd want to own cooldomain.net just to keep others from using it and tricking people into thinking it was you.

Andi

There should be a website for every domain! You don't have to create one for each, just point them at each other (which is quite cheap) if the names are so similar.

Now that I think about it, the "squatted" domains I've visited DO have webpages! Most of them say:


DOMAIN FOR SALE $1,000,000
Or some other equally outrageous dollar amount.

Carrie**

They have rights to sell the price they wanted since they aren't selling trademarks domains.
I have many domains for sale and I don't put any domain for sale $..... webpage simply because that's not the way people buy from you, also these domains (having a webpage) aren't very valuable as they have to show that it's for sale.
Business.com was sold for $7000000 and recently Commerce.com was sold for $180000
Godsend for $21500 (bought for the new movie)

If you were one of those domain broker, sincerely, will you be happy to sell it and make money are will you say hummmm, it's unfair, I will wait until the previous owner will renew his domain then a month after if he didn't renew it then I will register his domain ?

MrLeN
05-07-2004, 12:00 PM
If I owned a domain name and someone contacted me, offering a six figure amount for it, there's no way in the world I'd say no. I'd be quite happy to sign the domain over in exchange for the funds.

However, would I purchase 7,532 obscure, expired domain names and add a 100, 1000 or even 10000 percent markup on them? No.

Do I keep my eye out for the latest technology? Do I watch the news? Do I check to see if the name of a new song, movie, event, trend, craze or tech has been registered? Yes, of course I do. I'd love to own such a TLD and benefit from the business it would generate.

There's a line between owning a domain name for business, and owning a domain name for ransom purposes.

MrLeN

Andilinks
05-07-2004, 02:30 PM
If there was no fraud or negligence on the part of the registrar then there is little doubt how ICANN would judge this one, filing a claim would just be a waste of everyone's time.

Andi

This just isn't true.. The UDRP (see the link in Traffic Advisor's last post) mentions nothing about fraud or negligence..


Fraud is illegal in all jurisdictions and proof of negligence is always actionable. I am not a lawyer, nor am I intimately familiar with the Uniform Domain-name Dispute-Resolution Policy but I do believe that it must work within the framework of existing law.

Andi

05-08-2004, 01:02 PM
If I had my way, I'd have a bill passed where a domain cannot be sold for more than face value.
...
Hmm, but nothing as sensible as that would ever happen I suppose.

MrLeN

Shouldn't we also prohibit very high wages, expensive private schools and home rentals prices increase i july / august ?
I think this is the way things were going in the old Russia, 10 years ago. Everything controlled by the governement. Did it work better ??

JP

Andilinks
05-08-2004, 01:23 PM
I didn't want to say it but since Guest JP brings it up, yes MrLeN does seem to want a Stalinist approach to regulating the Internet.

No, it doesn't work... Though shooting the scammers, spammers and virus makers does have a certain appeal...

Andi

MrLeN
05-08-2004, 02:26 PM
As a matter of fact, I think the world would be a great place if personal income (world wide) could be capped so that no individual is able horde rediculously high amounts of assets and money.

Edit: Oh, and domains!

Once a person reaches a certain point in wealth, taking, making and sucking money from others (less developed and/or fortunate) becomes so easy it basically amounts to theft, leaving those with less unable to grow or prosper at all.

Business income on the other hand is another story. Business requires large amounts of assets and equity to function, research, prosper and grow. However, I don't think any business should ever be allowed to gain a monopoly within any market. Therefore, more stringent strategies need to be put in place to enable small businesses to grow without being consumed by larger businesses.

..but don't get me started. My brilliant views (on such matters) are seldom understood by others :(

How did shooting people become a part of the topic?

Takes a few cautious steps backwards

MrLeN

*Hates Greed*

Andilinks
05-08-2004, 03:22 PM
How did shooting people become a part of the topic?

What you are advocating MrLeN is very Marxist in nature, whether or not that's where you got it.

Historical fact: Communist and other "planned economy" regimes inevitably have lead to wholesale slaughter. When confronted with this unpleasant reality the Marxists and those like them just seem to always say, "but that was then, this is now and it will be different. We are not like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc"

Yeah, right.

Andi

MrLeN
05-08-2004, 03:49 PM
So deep down inside, what you're really trying to say, is that if someone calls for the regulation of sales to create a stable balance of distribution, they are a "Marxist" and the act of "shooting people" should be promptly entered into the context of the conversation in an attempt to make your offense more credible?

..and all the while, coming from a person who insists that shooting scammers, spammers and virus makers is appealing.

Yeah, right (backatchya). Can you like, stay "over there". Thanks.

MrLeN

Andilinks
05-08-2004, 04:33 PM
what you're really trying to say, is that if someone calls for the regulation of sales to create a stable balance of distribution, they are a "Marxist" and the act of "shooting people" should be promptly entered into the context of the conversation

Not the slippery slope you like to be identified with, I can understand that. I don't think you or the naive Marxists that I meet actually advocate murder, it's just that you are unfortunately ignorant of the history and the consequenses of your policies. I think it appropriate to enlighten you.

Regulators tend to be tolerant of totalitarian tactics and I will point it out as often as I can since they are dangerous.

The difference between me and the Marxist totalitarians is that I joke about shooting scammers and spammers. They do it.

Andi

httpman
05-08-2004, 04:38 PM
Mrlen - all is a matter of degree.
Regulating is good, as long as the competition is a part of the natural regulation. Linux is a good thing facing Windows, Mozilla & Opera vs IE, the Mac vs PC etc. When the rules kill the spirit of competion, it doesn't sound good to me.

Buying a domain name with just the idea to sell it at a higher price should not generate a very large business, excepted for very short names like download.com or business.com etc... For any other use, we can so easily add a 'the' before, or a '-us' behind, or additional '-' between words in order to get a domain name close to the one we want... There are so many possibilities by now.

Does really your business rely on the exact spelling of your domain name, so that one and only one name can be used ? If yes, and that you had this name in your hands and then you let it go elsewhere...

-----------------
BTW, I went on your website and took a look at your self-introduccing page http://www.mrlen.com/about.php - Great, really great, I like the way you did it. Although I definitively agree with Andi, she writes the words I'd like to write - but my english is not [yet] good enough. Well, your Google's PageRank = 3 sounds too low regarding your website's content.

I have added a link from my homepage (PR=5) towards your own homepage, hope it could increase your PR higher than 3. Let's have a check in a few weeks, I would really be glad if it could increase your PR.

JP

MrLeN
05-08-2004, 10:37 PM
Thanks for the link httpman. Much appreciated :)

My Google page rank was 5. I don't know how it got so low. Something has happened recently, to my other domains too. Oh well, not to worry. I am starting a new business. I have decided to stop working for other people to help them make money.

The business is being created now. I will offer absolutely everything that can be offered to do with web design and promotion, including SEO, code design, programming, graphic design, flash, corporate logo's, advertising kits - you name it :)

Up until now I have always offered my skills and services, mainly for free or very little cost (besides my employment activities, which my work was in exchange for a salary). I will still offer things for free (because it has earned me countless online friends and productive relationships), but it's time I earned an income from my skills. As soon as I can afford to, most of my sites, services and projects will offer free services.

I wouldn't take any of my current sites too seriously. They are all hobby sites. I did have big plans for some of them at one stage, but my ideas evolved. I'll get back to my original ideas as soon as I have a profitable business running to support them.

Andilinks,

We can argue our views all day, all night and then all day again. Still no conclusion to our differences would be found. I have very little doubt. So, I'm signing off on our little debate because it hurts my brain too much to keep reversing my thought processes so that I can understand where you might be coming from.

When in a debate, I always pause to consider the personality, mindset, intelligence and motivation behind the other persons rationality. You are obviously intelligent, but you'll find it insulting (I don't doubt) that you appear (to me) to be self absorbed, unfair, and know-all'ish.

In other words, I have come to the conclusion that you and I are on totally different and opposite planets. I don't wish to shout so loud for you to be able to hear me. I can't shout that loud anyway. What you're getting from me is morse code.

MrLeN

.. -.- -. --- .-- -.-- --- ..- .-. - -.-- .--. . .- -. -.. .. - .. ... --- ..-. .- ... --- .-. - - .... .- - --. . - ... --- -. -- -.-- -. . .-. ...- . ...

Andilinks
05-09-2004, 12:24 PM
...but you'll find it insulting (I don't doubt) that you appear (to me) to be self absorbed, unfair, and know-all'ish.

agrumentum ad hominem (or ad feminem in this case)
http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/attack.php

I would certainly consider an attempt to insult my character or motives a compliment to my argument and a closing of the issue.

A pleasure debating you MrLeN.

I tend to agree that I am somewhat self absorbed and know-all'ish, but I think my perceived unfairness is an artifact of your flawed position. I do always try to be fair.

Andi

Linda Buquet
05-09-2004, 01:00 PM
Ok, I was afraid this one would get a little heated.

PLEASE realize debates in these forums are fine but insults and name calling are not. Let's try to get back on topic and refrain from personal attacks.

Thanks,

MrLeN
05-09-2004, 01:45 PM
I'm cool :D

MrLeN

MrLeN
05-09-2004, 01:48 PM
By the way..

YOU STARTED IT!!!!!!!!!

You started calling me a Marxist and compared me to those that shoot people!

Ah-HA!

*points finger*

aaaah-HA!

*nods insistently and shakes finger*

..so don't "agrumentum ad hominem" me!

MrLeN

MrLeN
05-09-2004, 01:49 PM
I'm cool (again).

MrLeN

Andilinks
05-09-2004, 01:57 PM
What I said was:

I didn't want to say it but since Guest JP brings it up, yes MrLeN does seem to want a Stalinist approach to regulating the Internet.

To set the record straight, I referred always to your thoughts and beliefs, and I still think your views tend toward Marxist. I never attacked your character or motivations.

Andi

MrLeN
05-09-2004, 02:00 PM
*scribbles out the sign-off*

OK, BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!

MrLeN

Gary Golden
05-20-2004, 04:42 PM
I got lucky a couple of years back and think now that I will sell the name since the market is coming back. Of course the person who let it go is probably upset, well maybe I am wrong about the value so what does everyone else think.

ehighroller.com

Is this not a great domain name!
I just put it on SEDO for make an offer, Do you think that a name like this really needs appraised?

mace
10-11-2004, 05:27 PM
I thought ICANN handled stuff like this? If not, then exactly what DOES their "Domain Dispute Resolution" policy cover?

There are hundreds of different ways that a domain can come into dispute, but if you let yours lapse and someone else buys it there's no dispute.

If there was no fraud or negligence on the part of the registrar then there is little doubt how ICANN would judge this one, filing a claim would just be a waste of everyone's time.

Andi

That's not exactly accurate. There are several arbitration approaches that will return a domain name to the rightful owner in the case of trademark infringement or similarly compelling evidence (e.g. WIPO and others). Search on "domain name dispute" and you should be able to find them.

I have to agree with the "worm" judgement on these folks, too. It's one thing to think of a new DN and to register it speculatively. It's another (IMHO) to systematically register existing DNs when it is apparent that a renewal oversight has taken place. The latter I condemn not on the basis of deeming that activity unlawful, but on the basis that it is ANTI-capitalistic in that it amounts to little more than privately-introduced bureaucratic red tape or "sand-in-the-gears". I liken it more akin to a practice of legally parking cars at either end of an existing parked car and then requiring the owner to pay the perpetrators to move one of the cars so you can get out. It is not, in any way, aiding capitalism. It is simply trying to extort money by *magnifying* the inconvenience of what should normally be a smoothly running administrative procedure.

fryman
10-13-2004, 12:11 PM
I got an email from Godaddy saying that my domain was going to expire in 60 days. First thing I did was rush to my account and register it for another year.

The only way you will loose your domain is if you are too stupid or too lazy. You get enough chances to renew it, if you don't, there are thousands of people out there that will be happy to get hold of it.

Andilinks
10-15-2004, 11:49 PM
It is not, in any way, aiding capitalism. It is simply trying to extort money by *magnifying* the inconvenience of what should normally be a smoothly running administrative procedure.You snooze, you lose. These "worms" are teaching you a valuable lesson about human nature. Capitalism needs no aid, and it is in no way benevolent. It is in fact rather ruthless and cruel and occasionally reforms itself to stave off violent worker's revolutions.

I don't approve of these worm's behavior but it is consistent with how the world works. Deal with it.

Andi

MrLeN
10-20-2004, 05:29 AM
The way I see it, there are many ways to make money without scumming of other people.

Whether or not people snooze and lose shouldn't come into the picture of moral decency.

For example, if I saw a woman sleeping on a train and noticed that as the train turned each curve and bumped along, her purse was gradually slipping from her coat pocket, I wouldn't sit, waiting for it to fall so that I can run over and take it. I would inform the woman that she's about to lose her purse.

If the same thing happened to me (not that I have a purse), and I woke to find it gone, and the person next to me said: "Ah well, you should have been watching it" instead of "People these days!" in disgust, in my opinion, that would be the reply of a defeated person.

But the moral of my story is that saying "the world is bad, get over it" is really weak. By advising people that it's "their fault" if they lose something, what you're really saying is: "Hey, I'd rather learn to hide than to protect and renovate my moral views/opinions", because that's easier.

If you were watching a movie and screamed "He's behind the door!" as an axe murderer entered the room that a person was hiding in, rather than saying "Oh no, he's going to look behind the door", I'd have serious doubts about whether or not I'd want to continue knowing you.

It's the same thing. If you stick up for those that are morally wrong, but politically correct, it means that you've taken the easy way out. People do this, because they have learned that they will (usually) gain the most acceptance/sopport this way and it becomes a personality trait, and a defense even though it's weak.

I can be proud that I am not like that. I'm not a sheep. I don't say baaa - baaa, just because the other sheep do.

If I am against the "moral" position of any person, organisation I'll still do what "I" think is right, even if I know I'll get a kick in the rear, rather than altering my opinion to "fit in". That's what MOST people on this planet do, and even though such people have the protection of numbers, in the end such people always get their day.

I'd rather be poor and content than rich and happy if it meant changing my views/opinions that are greedy, selfish, hurtful or wrong in any other way.

I'd rather be shot in place of someone that I love.

If I was hungry with only five dollars, I would give it to someone else that was hungry if they asked.

See, my whole point is that if the whole world sat back and had the attitude "ah ..ya get that", "if you can't beat'em, join'em" etc.. it would fall apart.

..actually, that is why the world IS falling apart.

Should we all just forget trying to be "moral", and say "Ah well, that's the way things are", and just get on the band wagon? Or should we have a bit of pride and stand up for what we think, even though we know most (defeted) people will look down at us for being the way we are?

I know what my choice is.

Greedy little worms are defeated, immoral, scummy people that have given up on trying to be honest. They have the attitude, "well, if I don't do it someone else will", "I may as well get the money any way I can, no one would care if I lost a domain", "finders keepers - bad luck!" blah blah blah...

MrLeN

Nick W
10-20-2004, 05:36 AM
I have no sympathy.
It is YOUR responsibility to pay attention to YOUR domain name registrations.


Absolutely, whining about it after the fact wont do any good. In this game you have to be paying attention, just as with any other business endeavor.

MrLeN
10-20-2004, 05:54 AM
I have no sympathy.
It is YOUR responsibility to pay attention to YOUR domain name registrations.


Absolutely, whining about it after the fact wont do any good. In this game you have to be paying attention, just as with any other business endeavor.

I wouldn't use the term whining. I'd call it "making a fuss". The way I see it, the more people make a fuss about scums and greedy little worms, the more chance there is that the greedy little worms will wake up and decide to turn a new leaf.

I'd call it more of a protest. Usually, when a person or a group of people feel as though they are in the monority they will protest, even if their numbers of the protesters are a tiny minority.

It is all so easy to say "You lost it - your fault!" Well, actually, I agree with that, but for you to say it is another matter.

For example, if you lost all your pay gambling, it would be your right to think "damn, I am an idiot" (and it would be good if you did think that).

..but if someone else looked at you and said "You're an idiot!", there's a good chance you'd want to punch them in the left eye.

So, if you don't agree with me then you shouldn't post. If you agree with me, then you should post.

MrLeN

Nick W
10-20-2004, 06:13 AM
So, if you don't agree with me then you shouldn't post. If you agree with me, then you should post.

hehe, dude, that's not how conversation works! ;)

I'll take back the 'whine' but i reserve the right to express opinion on a post made to a public message board :-)

MrLeN
10-20-2004, 09:50 AM
ok, fair enough :)

MrLeN

EJRS.COM
10-22-2004, 03:27 AM
It's crucial that a domain be renewed ahead of time to avoid disappointment. Afterall domains these days are so cheap one can afford to pay for them. If you want to be serious in business, take the domain seriously.

Why wait till the last minute to renew. Is it worth the heartbreak?

I fully believe the current icann rules are most fair. They give you more than sufficient time to keep a domain going. It takes 2 and a half months before a domain is released into the pool. But it's the domain owner's responsibility to care for his business' welfare.

MrLeN
10-22-2004, 11:22 AM
Man, this is getting old. I have HEAPS and HEAAAAPS of domains. So I lost one. Things happen. Sometimes, through the nine hundred thousands spam emails I get each hour on a dozen or so email accounts, I guess I must have missed that one.

..but implying that someone is unprofessional, or they're not taking things seriously JUST because they lost ONE domain is just BORING, and it's the most obvious thing to say which makes it triple boring (and it's been said 15 times already, which makes it infinitely boring).

..my opinion still stands. People that sit back and mass register expired domains with the sole purpose of profiting from them are "GREEDY LITTLE WORMS", and nothing anyone is ever gonna say is gonna make a fat lick'a difference to my opinion.

Especially when people try to demand a REDICULOUS amount of money to sell the domain back.

FILTHY - SCUM - GREEDY LITTLE WORMS!

..that's what I say.

MrLeN :)

*Feels happy*

MrLeN
10-22-2004, 11:32 AM
Filthy - SCUM - squatters! (http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?p=163032#163032)

MrLeN

fryman
10-23-2004, 05:50 PM
geez... was that meant to be funny?

MrLeN
10-28-2004, 08:00 AM
Yeah, about as funny as all the casino download prompts on your website.

MrLeN

Glenn Albert Bradley
12-01-2004, 11:42 PM
Everybody who knows me, knows that I am Ye Olde Garage Sale Company and have been for years. I recently was hospitalized and lost my .com and my .org extensions. While I rebuild my life here, I may lose another one. My point is stuff happens, and like any other business you may run into obstacles. What cracks me up is why anyone would want my domains, but hey if they want to do the seo, its worth losing the domain names, Ill wait and jump in utilizing their seo. So here is my question, what if you have the actual brick and motar business name and lose your internet name, can you actually go after the squatter, or reseller whatever we wish to call them? I snoozed and lost, there is always next year...Another point, now I understand why web masters dont publish thier domain names, or list thier sites in the site critique columns. A word from someone who has been a victim of this domain snatching, if you dont want predatory affiliates or greedy speculators grabbing at your domain names, dont list them in the forums.

Andilinks
12-02-2004, 12:05 AM
what if you have the actual brick and motar business name and lose your internet name, can you actually go after the squatter...You will have a strong case if the domain name is also your registered trademark. If it is your long-time business name but you have not trademarked the name you still have a case, but much weaker...

This is an off-hand "not-a-lawyer" opinion. My advice to you is: consult an attorney.

Andi

Glenn Albert Bradley
12-11-2004, 03:50 PM
Actually, I think its a testament to my "branding" skills...hehe, oh well just a thought.

Andilinks
12-16-2004, 12:54 PM
my "branding" skills...Maybe you should get into the branding business then.

Andi

Gary Golden
12-31-2004, 08:46 PM
Registering your name each year is like paying taxes, you don't pay you loose!

Glenn Albert Bradley
01-02-2005, 10:16 AM
Actually, the domain names you care about most should be paid up front for at least five years, the ones you really dont care about or speculating could be renewed by the year. Just my thoughts here...but that is the lesson Im taking away from losing my domains.

cspelts
01-27-2005, 01:55 AM
Hey MrLen, greedylittleworms.com is available! Maybe you should speculate!

But back on subject, I lost a domain once too. It was a relative's name - someone who was famous in the 1930's - so it had a lot of links from other such sites, and a good amount of traffic.

I realized I'd forgotten to renew, but it was already in limbo - I should have signed up with a service that would register it the minute it came on the market, but I figured it was just a little vanity site and who else would want the domain? I was wrong.

A company in Hong Kong snapped it up - I don't think they even knew what the domain name referred to! They only wanted a few hundred dollars for it, but I didn't want to pay that for a little vanity site. So I published my content on anther site, and asked everyone who was linking to me to change the URL. Without those incoming links and without my content, it dropped out of all the search engines, and I'm certain the traffic dropped way down.

Then a year later I did register with one of those companies that can grab a domain the minute it becomes available - it was $18.95 and well worth it! The other company let it lapse, and I got the domain name back.

So the moral to my story is - if you do lose a domain, make sure you take ALL your traffic with you. Get those incoming links updated. With the loss of traffic, the domain will become less valuable to the new buyer and they might just decide to let it go.

MrLeN
01-28-2005, 09:12 PM
Yeah, that's pretty good advice.

Thanks :)

MrLeN

Narnia
01-29-2005, 04:17 AM
Then a year later I did register with one of those companies that can grab a domain the minute it becomes available - it was $18.95 and well worth it! The other company let it lapse, and I got the domain name back.

Isn't there some way of getting a domain back if it's within 30 days or so after it expires? I thought I read that the original owner has that protection.

cspelts
01-30-2005, 03:31 AM
Isn't there some way of getting a domain back if it's within 30 days or so after it expires? I thought I read that the original owner has that protection.

It may have changed since I went through this several years ago, but at that time the owner had a period of time after the domain expired to redeem the domain - but after that expired there was a short period where you couldn't get it back and no one else could register it either.

Glenn Albert Bradley
02-01-2005, 08:36 PM
I feel for Mrlen, having lost my domains through expiration, also thinking why would anyone would want it, but this is the internet, and the business ethic is akin to the wild wild west, so, would anyone please appraise my expired domain names, (which are held by others down south from me) www.yeoldegaragesalecompany.com and www.yeoldegaragesalecompany.org. I may use the small claims court to recover some lost revenues, but I want a fair appraisal to ponder thier actual worth.

SnerdeyWebs
02-25-2005, 01:13 PM
Registering your name each year is like paying taxes, you don't pay you loose!

Right on the money.. I could not have said it better myself!

MrLeN
06-12-2005, 04:02 PM
I still think squatters are greedy little worms!

There are SO many cool 3 letter domains that I could use to set up some websites.

I want to set up some subdomain hosting.

ie:

http://user.awd.com

or

http://user.qzl.com

..but there aren't any 3 letter domains because "GLW's" are sitting on them all. It's just stupid.

MrLeN

mediahound
06-16-2005, 01:16 AM
I completly disagree.
Domain names are virtual real estate. It's just the same as people that invest in land & real estate.
Do you get mad whenever you see undeveloped land because you would like to have been the one to round it up?
For those that saw the opportunity before you, I give them the credit. Just like any other business, the first one to take the risk usually walks away the winner.

mediahound
06-17-2005, 01:59 AM
To add to that, read this:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1826532,00.asp
(you should really read what's at that page before reading on)

Here's a letter a friend of mine wrote to the guy that wrote that article. My friend says, "I wrote to this guy to set him straight. Let's see if he responds.
He is typical of many people who have a narrow, foolish, and very naive view of the domain business."

I agree with his feelings (if you cant already tell that from my last post) This is what he wrote to the writer in reply to that article:

"Hi Larry,

I read your article about "domain warehousing".

I own the rights to about 400 domains so I suppose I am a domain warehouser. Although I don't actively pursue the sale of these domains, they do pay for themselves and they produce a modest income for me.

I live near a 1000 acre ranch worth over 100 million dollars. The owner of this ranch had a great grandfather who came to ownership by participating in a homestead challenge that consisted of riding horses around as much land as possible in one day's time.

I'm not jealous of my neighbor. His great grandpa got there first. That's all.

Your perspective is one-sided and full of misunderstandings about the domain and web development industry.

Domain names are virtual real estate, many of which attract qualified and interested customers on a regular basis and for a very low cost. To expect any entrepreneur to sit idly by and allow these valuable assets to go to the next registrant in the interest of fairness is foolishness; void of common business sense.

Your appraisal of the practice is naive and ill informed. The business world may not be fair, but it rewards those who see opportunities early on and understand how to exploit them. There's nothing wrong with that.

We have our bad players but there are a whole lot of legitimate and smart business practices that involve the "warehousing" of domains and there are a lot of people involved in it that have the same right to display an ad on their domain holding as eWeek does to push a pop up in my face as I read your article (sorry that just happened). What makes you any better?

I'd be happy to discuss or debate this with you more fully if you are interested, but I felt compelled to at least write to you briefly since I think you have cast suspicion on a group of people who don't deserve it and on a practice which does not get the objective credit that it deserves for it's foresight and practical business benefits.

Sincerely,

Joe Alagna
Personaweb, Inc."

yogsco
02-18-2006, 05:20 PM
Thats all I have to say, I have my beloved www.yeoldegaragesalecompany.com back, and I've learned a valuable lesson out of this...MR. LEN there is hope for the honest businessman out there!

AmericanOnlineMall
02-21-2006, 05:46 AM
I own about 200+ domains and overtime I am transferring them to one company,as soon as there is an expiration going to happen I transfer to my one domain account that renews it for a year and also any domain I Have I have put it on Sale on My own Personal owned Mall my baby AmericanOnlineMall.com
so whenever I go On it I know the domains I own,It is Hard to Keep Track but one mistake can cost 1000's or even Millions (can You imagine getting Vegas.com) the Bstrd excuse my french probably has it renewed for 100 years lol.
Sorry about You Loosing the Domain
Regards
SamIam
Http://www.AmericanOnlineMall.com