Site design and Color Blindness

[Blackicicle]

Quite a while back, I remember reading somewhere or hearing from someone that 30% of all men are color blind. Actually I can't really remember the exact figure but I remember it was ridiculously high.

I'm not quite sure, which color(s) if any can't be seen by color blind people but for some reason, I have it in my head that is greens and blues.

My question is: Does anyone take this matter into consideration when choosing the colors to work with in the development stage of the website building process?

I will do a little research on the subject, but if anyone knows anything about this then please add your imput.

[Niko Holopainen]

Hey blackicile, hope this helps.

In my current site this was not taken into account but for the now performed reconstruction accessibility in general and issues like color blindness have been taken into account.

I think the percentage is one half of that (around 16% of males, may vary on geographical location) but this is just a hunch - I can't remember the facts.

Color blindness doesn't prevent the colour blind person from seeing colors (red, yellow, mainly) - instead the colors blend into the background with varying intensity, depending on the color blindness. Many people are actually unaware if they are partially color blind and it's usually discovered during driving license vision tests, military enlistment tests etc.

Ya. I ramble again. Back to the issue at hand.

Designing for possibly partially color blind audience doesn't actually require that reds and yellows aren't used. What it requires is that contrast between text and background is relatively high (eg. when using light grey background, don't use dark grey text but black instead). Since even colorblind-red will see the contrast, the color doesn't disappear - it fades into the surrounding color.

In a similar manner, slightly deviating from the subject - the site I'm working on has been designed bearing accesibility in mind: page navigation is simple (6 part main menu+side menu of only a couple objects), it's at most <30kb and will load on mobiles, braille etc. quickly but without the css formatting (then again, so will everyone else's). I've yet to implement the key navigation but that too will come.

Last but least, the obvious accesibility issues: caption and headers on tables, title tags on non-main navigational (e.g. none in the main navigation which is mostly repeated on every page) links, links with readily discernible appearance (I use darker color with "hover" effect of underline but may resort even to underlines).

I'll post a review request when the reconstruction is done in a couple weeks.

[eightfifteen]

30%, eh? THat explains alot of the sites out there.

[Blackicicle]

Lol Sorry eightfifteen I was just estimating. :)

Thanks for the info NikoH, very insightful, I hope to see the site you're working on soon.

[Niko Holopainen]

Here's a quickie Google find, as always one should reference several sources since the credibility can't be accounted to (at least it's hard for me to distinguish an US based "authority" from another).

http://www.hhmi.org/senses/b130.html

[Jekyl]

As a color blind guy who also does some web work, here's my take on it.....

I am technically Red/Green blind. This is the most common form of the 'handicap'. My taste leans towards very contrasting colors - yellow on black, that sort of thing. I can tell you that red fonts on a black background are very difficult for me to read.

Generally summed up, if you're interested in making sure the 30% (? !) can see your site well, I would recommend staying away from dark fonts on dark backgrounds. To us CB folks, green, purple, red and brown are considered dark colors.
Code accordingly. Hope this helps!

John

[jaca]

Jekyl said it before I could. Yes red and green are the most common colours. I've known men who are partial and red and green is common. Some are totally colour blind.

When I desing I stay away from that combination. I also try have a good contrast for those who have real problems.

I have worked on sites that I did not design, and there are a good number of people that will not take advice on the issue of colour blindness. One site I worked on was red/green/yellow. Sorry Jekyl!

[G[dot]com]

Try this test to find out for yourself how color blind people see it any URL:

http://colorfilter.wickline.org/

It also explains that there are different types of color blindness. Hope it helps,

Gi

[Blackicicle]

You don't have to answer if you don't wish to... and although this is a bit off topic I would just like to know Jekyl... How did you find out you were color blind?

The link you posted NikoH: http://www.hhmi.org/senses/b130.html
Was a very good read. After reading it, I decided to google "tests for color blindness" and "detecting color blindness" as it would be interesting to find the methods used by the professionals.

I came across (amoung others):
http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html
http://www.archimedes-lab.org/colorblindnesstest.html
http://www.psych.utoronto.ca/museum/holmgren.htm

The testing methods used on some of those sites listed above. I've actually seen before (On optical illusion sites) but I had no idea that they had a real world purpose.

Again... Knowing that I'm trailing way of track here, I'm particularly interested in the article on the site that was posted dealing with "Blindness to Motion" where the woman would pour her coffe and
the column of fluid flowing from the spout appeared frozen, like a waterfall turned to ice
I didn't even know that this was possible. Anyway thanks all for the replies and info.

[MartyS]

When it comes to color blindness there are 2 kinds because of the 2 kinds of receptors in the eyes -- red/green and blue/yellow. Men are more apt to be color blind than women, and red/green receptors (cones) are more apt to be defective than the blue/yellow.

In the U.S. they have designed traffic lights with this knowledge in mind because the reds have other colors mixed in and the red is always on top as another visual reminder.

[doubleplus]

I, too, am color blind. However, the true term should be "color weak." It is extremely rare for a human to be totally color blind - everything in shades of silvery-gray. But, that's how dogs see, so if you're designing a site for dogs, use black and white for best results. :)

I found out I was color blind in kindergarten. They were using color-coded letters to teach reading, and they decided I had a learning disability. But my mom would not accept that and took me to the doctor, who gave me the round groups of dots with the numbers and letters inside test.

As a web designer and graphic designer, this is a true disability. I am always asking my wife and sons, "can I borrow your eyes?" so they can confirm my color selections. Many a time they have said, "Yuk!!" So I depend on others.

About the traffic lights - I can't tell the difference between the red and yellow lights. I know the one on top is for stop, but if it's a single light like in front of fire houses, I have no idea if it's red or yellow...

About web surfing, I don't hold it against someone if their site is not color friendly for me - I'm used to it. Rarely, though, if ever, has it caused me to be unable to see what I needed to.

[TheWebDoctor(tm)]

There are many great resources on the Internet that cover color blindness.

The two most helpful sites available, of course on my favorites list for the subject, are http://www.vischeck.com/index.php and http://newmanservices.com/colorblind/default.asp.

Of course the my top favorites would be http://www.w3.org and http://www.tracecenter.org/world/web/.

If you would like to know if you are color blind you can check this site. http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html

Some statistics show approximately 8% of caucasion males are color blind. I haven't seen any statistics for males of other races. However, most statistics don't break it out and simply use an aggregate percentage.

Statistics for females indicate that no more than one-half a percent are color blind.

To understand how color blindness affects individuals there are a few tests you can perform using the first set of links above. The rarest form of color blindness is mono-chromatic which removes all colors and provides the person with varying shades of grey.

When I consult with organizations concerned with accessibility, color is an important issue. My recommendation is to use the web-safe colors. Web-safe colors used to mean that browsers would be able to see the colors. Now, it's more people can distinguish differences in colors. However, as long as you ensure you have a high degree of contrast between your background and foreground colors you'll do fine.

I hope this helps.

[Webworks7]

According to http://www.vischeck.com/vischeck/, one in 20 people have some sort of color vision deficiency. The deficiency is far more common in men than in women.

I do take this into account when designing my sites. I don't mean that I try to make things look "good" to colorblind users, but I do use text and backgrounds that have high contrast and I try not to make my sites color-dependent.

For example, I don't include an image map of the U.S. and say things like, "Click on the green states for exciting news!" Another thing I avoid is using color to give directions to the user, for example, "Click on the red button to submit the form." To avoid confusion, I am more specific, such as, "Click on the oval, red button on the left to submit the form," or I label the buttons and don't even mention the colors. When I am making maps, I try to select colors that can be distinguished by colorblind users, or use a combination of colors and patterns (hatching) to mark important features on the map.

Vischeck has a colorblindness simulator http://www.vischeck.com/vischeck/vischeckURL.php that I find quite useful. Another quick check, although less accurate, is simply to print your Web pages on a black and white printer and review them objectively. Does everything still make sense in black and white? Would you be able to follow all directions and use all of the navigation if you were seeing the site for the first time?

[venividi]

I've always tried not to use red and green fonts since I've found out that one of my clients has problems with these colors unless they are 'pure'. So from time to time I ask him to please go to the site I am building and tell me if the pages are clear to him. I am now aware that htis is not enough. However I've always tried to use safe colors for my backgrounds and fonts, but I was concerned about visitors with old monitors.
I also try to use em units instead of pixels or points as much as I can
I think we should pay more attention to this matter: being 'perceived' correctly is much more worth than having a cool site.

Valeria

[McFox]

The simple solution to determining how your website looks to someone who is color blind is to take a screen-shot with a graphics program (photoshop, paintshoppro,,) and render it to grayscale.

You will immediately be able to see which, if any, colors are lacking sufficient contrast; not just for those who are color-blind but also for other types of visual impairment.

McF

[ellar]

Thanks Gi for the original site you listed where you can see what your page will look like through the eyes of the different forms of colour blindness people suffer from.

This is really useful and plan to check out all the index pages I create through this little filter tool.

Thank you

[Andilinks]

Yes Gi, I found that site helpful too.

My own site passed the color-blind test, only minor non-essential things disappeared or dimmed.

This is for doubleplus:

As an aid to those people who can't decide whether colors look good together, whether it be from color-blindness or even just insecurity, there is an online color-picker that will display 16 colors that will go well with any one entered.

You may still want to run your work past your families' eyes but you'll probably hear "Yuk" less often.

http://www.colorschemer.com/online.html


Andi

edited: spelling error

[benwalsh]

a news article just raised this question and stated that 30% of all men are colour blind.
so I have come looking for an answer
I have always favoured navy text on light background, but have also used red on black.
can we cut to the chase. which colours are best, and worst?

[benwalsh]

http://www.timeto.net/colour-blind.gif

[Keimos]

I thought I would just add my bit.

As some of the people replying are colour blind listen to what they are saying!

like the last example, but if you are not colour blind it does not prove anything. I can see it as I am not afflicted (can see the lighter green over the darker green) But that is also to do with the background.

Fact: As Mentioned before. Red/Green is recognised as the most common form of colour blindness. Which is why electricty wires are patterned so that there is a lesser chance of mistake. Yellow colour blindness affect less than 1% of individuals.(so we are told) I am not a great believer in stats as they can be manipulated to suit.

Having what most people call the anti site. Dark Blue background with yellow text I chose this to be the negative of most sites.People remember because of the colours and at the same time I have never had a complaint about the information being unreadable.

As there are some colour blind people involved in this discusssion please put me in my place or advise me otherwise. The site has passed 90% of the accessibility tests. Time and third parties dictate full compliance.
www.keimos.co.uk

All thoughts most welcome for the moment as we are in the process of re-design.

[webiff]

Well according to color combination our team have designed a Portal for all visitors who want to stay with cool colors and we have put all light gradient color in every section of this portal for further study of our color combination i would like to let you visit few sections of Apnahyderabad.com

1. Fashion Section http://www.apnahyderabad.com/fashion/
(Orange Color Scheme)

2. Health Section
http://www.apnahyderabad.com/health/
(Green Color Scheme)

3. Education Section
http://www.apnahyderabad.com/education/
(Light Blue Color Scheme)

4. Fun Section for KIDS
http://www.apnahyderabad.com/fun/
(Yellow with white Color Scheme)

5. Mobile Section
http://www.apnahyderabad.com/mobiles/
(Dark Orange Color Scheme)

6. Web Directory Section
http://www.apnahyderabad.com/web_directory/
(Malaysia Color Scheme)

well these are just few section i have mentiond.

We would like to get feedback from you about these webcolor schemes. http://www.apnahyderabad.com/Contact-us.asp


Regards
Furqan Durvesh
http://www.ApnaHyderabad.com
http://www.webiff.net

[mad-prices]

I am a newbie to the world of web design but I am currently studying web application design at the Open University. At the moment we are covering colour and design principles which covers design for the colour blind and disabled.
It’s an excellent course it’s all done online too, so I have no need to leave my house.

So I thought I would add these statistic’s being that I have them at hand and I don’t mean to step on anybodies toes. Just thought I would put some fact into the forum.

I have the static’s in front of me now:
0.5% of women that’s 1 in 200 have colour blindness.

8% of men that’s 1 in 12 have colour blindness

(Open University T183 Design and the web, Lesson 4: colour workbook, page 17, 3rd paragraph.)

Just like to add that colour on website doesn’t just effect colour blindness it also effects people with dyslexia or related disabilities.
1 in 10 people are dyslexic.
So site design should take all disabilties into an affect and not just the colour blind.

I.e.: is your text the right size for the visually impaired. Can the text be altered?
Is the colour scheme clashing for colour blindness and dyslexics alike?

Is background and text colour ok, can a person with dyslexia read your text?

Dyslexic people when they read on the wrong colour text and background suffer bleariness of text, miss text and host other wonderful things like words being swooped around or a letter.

Dyslexia is genetic and passes down the family line and may miss out a generation.

To reduce any effects to the disabled you can put a colour background selector on your site.

So all people can view your site which entails more sales.

I think this topic should be recalled Site Design and Disabilities as site design doesnt just effect colour blindness.

here are afew websites to understand dyslexia
http://www.jmk.su.se/global99/access/dyslexia/statdys.html#uk
http://www.dyslexia-inst.org.uk/
http://www.dyslexia-uk.net/
http://www.dyslexiahelp.co.uk/
http://www.brightstarlearning.com/content/media/londontonight.htm

Rob
P.s
if any body is interested in the course i am doing follow link
http://www3.open.ac.uk/courses/bin/p12.dll?Q02C39

[mad-prices]

i just like to add to mcfox, poeple with colour blindness dont view things in black and white. its that poeple with colour blindness cannot differentiate certain colours or tones of them. so why would you want to go grey scale, when you can just avoid certian colour combinations.

mcfox's qoute
The simple solution to determining how your website looks to someone who is color blind is to take a screen-shot with a graphics program (photoshop, paintshoppro,,) and render it to grayscale.

You will immediately be able to see which, if any, colors are lacking sufficient contrast; not just for those who are color-blind but also for other types of visual impairment.

McF[/quote]

[clambam]

Just to go a little off topic here, about 15 years ago I was working for an architectural firm. I used to do presentation flip charts for them using a pen plotter (for those of you who have no idea what that is, it plotted full size drawings by moving the paper around on a drum while an arm with a pen in it moved back and forth). The company was getting ready to purchase its first ink jet plotter. I suggested to the CAD manager that they get a color plotter, since I'd be able to use a graphics program instead of AutoCAD and use real fonts instead of architectural linear fonts. The CAD manager said he couldn't justify the cost of a color plotter. A few months later I did a chart for him. I used red and green text in a blue grid; I thought it looked nice. When I showed it to him he said "It's kind of hard to read." I said "You're color blind, aren't you?" and he answered "A little..." Nothing wrong with being color blind, but should this guy have been making the decisions on whether to get a color plotter or not?

[DrTandem1]

Yes, I too have some color blindness. It is discovered with tests that mix shapes in varying degrees of shades of color. If you can't see the shapes, then you are color blind.

Color blindness really isn't much of a problem unless the colors that are confused, such as red and green, are next to one another. Since most of these colors clash, it is rarely a problem in design as they look ugly to someone that is not color blind.

Personally, I find the world driving fast into mediocrity when everything must be designed for the least common denominator. If you are worried about color blind people not being able to view your site, then make a black and white version. Then you need to worry about near-sighted people and use big font...then you must worry about dyslexic people...then you must worry about stupid people...then you have to...Get the idea?

[Najoba]

Here are some excellent sources of information on designing your site for accessibility, including the color-blind.

Accessibility for the Color-Blind

How Do Things Look to Colorblind People?
http://webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/2.html

Safe Web Colours for Colour-Deficient Vision
http://more.btexact.com/people/rigdence/colours/PalFiles.htm

Colorblind Web Page Filter
http://colorfilter.wickline.org

Colorblind Color Lab
http://colorlab.wickline.org/colorblind/colorlab

Colour Picker
http://www.tesspub.com/colours.html

Newman Services Color-Blind Evaluation
http://www.newmanservices.com/colorblind/default.asp

‘The Eye of the Beholder’ - Designing for Colour-Blind
Users
http://more.btexact.com/people/rigdence/colours/colours.pdf

Vischeck for color-blind adaptations
http://www.vischeck.com

Other Helpful Color Links

Color Contrast Verification Tool (HP)
http://h10014.www1.hp.com/accessibility/color_tool.html
(have your hexadecimal values or RGB values ready for
this one)

VisiBone
About web-safe colors
http://www.visibone.com/color/faq.html#colorblind

VisiBone Color Lab
http://www.visibone.com/colorlab

Cool Tools: Color Scheme
http://www.pixy.cz/apps/barvy/index-en.html

Nanci
Nanci's Necklaces
www.neckwares.com

[Blackicicle]

Well I certainly did not expect such a response!


Having what most people call the anti site. Dark Blue background with yellow text I chose this to be the negative of most sites. People remember because of the colours and at the same time I have never had a complaint about the information being unreadable.
Your're certainly right keimos, I looked at your site and the text seem to "jump out" at me. But personally I find that I tend to leave site that are very bright or are of extremely highly contrasted after only a short stay.

Even when the information on the site is "must have". I often find myself coping and pasting the information to notpad and viewing it from there.

Thanks for the link Andi, I will definately add that one to my faves. Somtimes I'm very picky with my color choices, so I see this helping me a lot in the future.

[Niko Holopainen]

Dr Tandem,

I agree to the statement:

Color blindness really isn't much of a problem unless the colors that are confused, such as red and green, are next to one another. Since most of these colors clash, it is rarely a problem in design as they look ugly to someone that is not color blind.

I don't agree on the "world driving fast to mediocrity". Taking color blindness, slow connections and usablitity/accessibility into account is truly a minor issue, especially when sites are designed. For years already sites have been designed with multiple site versions for different kinds of users (low res vs high res, no flash, earlier generation browsers - especially the notorious < gen 5's. For those that have the extra cash, this is fine. I personally can't afford to have 5 different versions to look the best for all users.

Thus, bearing the general principle of commercial/company site of making either a)money/profit or b)making a good impression for people looking for information on the company.

Both would suggest not turning people away by making hard to read/unusable sites.

I know that this is really a hot potato and probably better discussed elsewhere - so I'm bringing out a personal example of serving a customer with a more severe disability - deafness.

This was four-five years back, for some reason our company (reselling timeshare) was the favourite contact place of deaf people who used a "call service" that translated (typed) the conversation with the client.

If our company web pages had been in order - they wouldn't have needed to arduously call us using the service (these calls often took half an 1/2-1hour without actual visible or immediate profit), proper web pages would have been more efficient since it'd have been better service from us and easier for them.

Now, if the customers had been blind, and I do hope that now as an entrepeneur they would contact us. Making the site visible and readable to them using a braille is a small task, certainly smaller than making an altogether different set of pages (as in for ealier generation browsers).

Thus making the site for the smallest common denominator is financially viable - in my opinion this should be the "starting level" of the site. Then if you detect or are willing to truly impress those visitors that have better equipment, connections, flash and all the other plugins - then do so when they're detected.

No store owner should tell a customer to buzz off if they can't handle the technicalities to enter the store, but the store owners can make a high tech fancy entrance for those that they know will value it.

My 2 cents. Sorry for long post and hope this won't start a flamer ;=

: Niko

[baylward]

Creating a site that can be customised by the user to their particular needs does not have to be difficult. The first step is to separate the content from the formatting, i.e. put the content in your HTML/XHTML file and move ALL the formatting to your CSS file. Now you can develop multiple CSS files with different options such as larger fonts, no images or high-contrast colouring. The user can even use their own style sheet but still be able to view all the content on your site.

This does not mean that you have to create a boring site at all. In fact the Zen Garden project http://www.csszengarden.com/ illustrates how effective this technique can be.

Here is another website that provides visualisation of various disabilities including colour blindness, diabetic retinothopy, cataracts, macular degeneration and glaucoma. It only works under IE5.5+ unfortunately as it uses ActiveX filters: http://www.a2solutions.co.uk/visualise.htm. This page also describes some of the issues faced by people with these various disabilities.

The rest of the site can be viewed using different style sheets. Follow the http://www.a2solutions.co.uk/accessibility.htm link at the bottom of the page and select the different styles provided.

B

[richard-s]

... I find that I tend to leave site that are very bright or are of extremely highly contrasted after only a short stay.

Even when the information on the site is "must have". I often find myself coping and pasting the information to notpad and viewing it from there...


I Believe in Self-help
I am partially sighted, but thankfully have good colour vision. Many web sites are hard for me to read. The main problems are small text sizes and glare from bright backgrounds. However, I know that other partially sighted people need the high contrast that causes me so much trouble.

I firmly believe that individual users should learn to adapt their web browser software to suit their individual needs. Web sites should be designed for easy adaptability, but the range of individual needs is too large and too contradictory for any single solution.

I rely on the "user style sheet" facility in the accessibility features of Internet Explorer. Very little is published on how to use it and some web site are so poorly designed that adaptation is difficult. For information see:

http://www.curlewcommunications.co.uk/c-access.html

Web Designers please note:
My "user style sheets" adapt your web sites to my needs. They make my PC ignore your pretty colours, fancy fonts and innovative layouts. I see just your text and pictures in an easy to read format.

[DrTandem1]

The unfortunate fact is many web sites don't look good to those with perfect vision. This can be attributed to the style of the designer, the limitations of the browser/computer/monitor and finally the personal taste of the visitor(s).

I think reasonable accommodations should be made for those with severe disabilities. However, I do not think that the majority should have to suffer simply to share the pain. This extends to not only web design, but all facets of life.

I don't think things should be designed to exclude anyone, but people must recognize that we all have limitations. Not all can grasp Einstein's theory of relativity and not all of us are retarded. All of us can not be world class athletes and not all of us are paralyzed. Not all of us are extremely short nor extremely tall. The point being, the vast majority fall into the middle of the extremes.

I think automobiles are a good example of this. Most people can fit in and drive the average car. Some need more headroom and legroom and therefore are limited in the models that will allow for this. Other people are blind and barred from driving altogether. Some have physical limitations and modifications are made to their cars so they can control them, however, not ALL cars have these modifications.

I think this opens a niche for some innovative people regarding web sites. Rather than force every designer to accommodate a wide range of disabilities, why not simply have a browser (software) that can parse the various designs to a level that can be accepted by the various disabilities?

[Niko Holopainen]

I'm glad this didn't start a flame war, often the usability/accessibility questions tend to heat the feelings on both sides of the fence ;)

I loved the example about cars since I'm one of those tall ones (~2m) that can't fit into those tiny city cars! But, for the sake of this example, I would accept that I wouldn't fit into the car - but being prevented to judge for myself by limitations in the shop doorway (only regular size people accepted, go away) would be frustrating... Whereas being allowed into the store, shown the car and personally deciding it's not for me should form the "normal base" of business and design.

And the last paragraph pretty much sums up the whole idea of accessible design (usability as well I think, but my tired mind might confuse the issues) - make pages that allow for this. There are braille speakers etc. but the site designer needs to design the site in a manner that allows this, small task really (especially so with CSS).

But as said, this flows off topic since severe disabilities and partial color blindness have very little in common. I'm all for designing accepting the possible limitations in visual appearance and not turning any customer that might be profitable away.

Funnily reminds me of one finnish software company employing several hundred people, their webpages were totally inaccessible (and very basic looking using IE) to mozilla/firefox/netscape - they became a sort of inside joke among my friends, how could an IT company afford such...?

[mad-prices]

simple solution for this is to put a bit of html that changes the background color, let your customers decide what color they like.

if any body wants it just email me at sales@acar2suityou.co.uk

with rob i want the Background color changer in the subject feild.

[DrTandem1]

NikoH-

The analogy still holds for the car and the web site. No one said you couldn't try the page just as no one said you could not try to fit into the car.

I think that worrying about color blindness and web sites borders on obsession. After all, traffic lights are still red, green and yellow. The problem occurs when some of these colors are meshed. As I stated before, they still look awful to those with perfect sight. Just look at some of the colors mixed in the tests people have posted.

[richard-s]

Creating a site that can be customised by the user to their particular needs does not have to be difficult....
...This does not mean that you have to create a boring site at all. In fact the Zen Garden project http://www.csszengarden.com/ illustrates how effective this technique can be...
A Good Example of the Problem
Thanks for the link to Zen Garden. Several of the examples are attractive as "works of art" but many fail to display properly in my customized web browser (MS IE6 + user style sheets).

I use the web to give and to obtain information. Plain sites are best. Most fancy "designed" web sites seriously impede the transfer of information.

Finally, unless you are interested only in visits from youngsters with perfect health, perfect PCs and perfect vision why exclude other web visitors just "for the sake of art?"
R.

[Gary Golden]

Though I don't think color blind is one of them, tired, over worked, underpaid, part of being self employed. Just thought that I would throw in my 2 cents worth!

Oh, above you show the pages as person that has color blind would see them, how do we know if what we see is right!!!!! Maybe the way they see it is right?

Just a thought!

Have a great day all!

[DrTandem1]

Yes, Gary, that is a good point. No one really knows how another perceives something. However, scientifically, we can determine which person has a better ability to discern things such as color.

The same is true of hearing. We may not be able to know exactly how something sounds to another person, but we can test to determine whether they can hear it at all.

Lastly, I think most perceive things such as sight and sound similarily. After all, if we did not, there would not be such things as hit records or the general agreement that this or that celeberity is good looking.

Personally, I have been tested and have some mild color blindness. I did not know this and it never caused a problem in my life.

[wclew]

I think automobiles are a good example of this. Most people can fit in and drive the average car. Some need more headroom and legroom and therefore are limited in the models that will allow for this. Other people are blind and barred from driving altogether. Some have physical limitations and modifications are made to their cars so they can control them, however, not ALL cars have these modifications.


DrTandem,
I don't want to start a flaming argument either, but your automobile example doesn't hold water. I will give you 3 examples right off the top of my head to prove this.

1) I am in a wheelchair and use a van for transportation. In my wheelchair, I am too tall to pass through the side doorway of a standard van. My van has been modified with a 4" lowering of the floor. In years past, this was not possible because the floor rested right on the frame. Automobile makers started making vans, pickups and SUV's with extra room between the floor and the frame to make them capable of being adapted.

2) Some users of manual wheelchairs can drive smaller cars as well, as long as they are capable of having hand controls installed. Their manual chairs can be folded and stored on top of the car, in the backseat, or in the trunk.

3) My Dad just recently bought a new Mack truck. Upon exmaination it was found that the footfeet could be set at 3 different positions on the floor to accomodate taller and shorter people.

These 3 examples show that the automobiles were not made specific to irregular needs, but they were smartly designed with the underlying ability to be adapted to accomodate these needs. Web pages should be designed in the same way with smart designs that can be adapted for many needs. Like someone else said above, CSS makes this very easy to be standards compliant and completely accesible.

Dennis

[DrTandem1]

Dennis-

I think you need to re-read my post more carefully. Specifically, this paragraph:

<<I think automobiles are a good example of this. Most people can fit in and drive the average car. Some need more headroom and legroom and therefore are limited in the models that will allow for this. Other people are blind and barred from driving altogether. Some have physical limitations and modifications are made to their cars so they can control them, however, not ALL cars have these modifications.>>

It encapsulates your three points, which in essence, completely agree with my statements.

[wclew]

DrTandem,

You forgot to specify which paragraph there so I reread a few. It doesn't really matter though, that may have been what you meant to say but it didn't read that way. Anyway, now I know and I'm glad we're in agreement.

Dennis