Role of Keywords in Title

[ShaneHunter]

Hey Guys!

First thread... I heard through a few associates that this is the place to be for aspiring seo's.

My question to you, the super-pro's is:

How big of a role, in your experience, have you found keywords to play in SERP's?

For example, I'm trying to rank for "San Diego SEO"

My website is www.san-diego-seo.org

A secondary question, how big of a detriment are the dashes in my url to SERP's?

[Tiggerito]

Dashes may even help your URL as it helps the search engines (and people) determine what the keywords are.

A good example is "Experts Exchange" which could have been interpreted as "Expert sEx change" if they didn't have dashes in their domain.

And I find keywords in the title do have a large effect. Don't spam though. Remember your title is shown in search results and so should be attractive to people.

[digital29]

Keywords in the title are very important, but keywords in the url/domain are way more important. If they are long tail or not so competitive, you could get nr.1 for a keyword that is included in the domain without doing anything

[SEOArbiter]

On-page SEO definitely plays a role in your rankings. Put one, no more than two, keywords in the title. And, Be sure to place your keyword(s) within the headlines of your website.

[mjtaylor]

Keywords in the title are very important, but keywords in the url/domain are way more important. If they are long tail or not so competitive, you could get nr.1 for a keyword that is included in the domain without doing anything

Can you substantiate that? A poll of SEO Experts would suggest otherwise:

http://www.seomoz.org/article/search-ranking-factors



Top 5 Ranking Factors

1.
Keyword Focused Anchor Text from External Links
73% very high importance
73%
2.
External Link Popularity (quantity/quality of external links)
71% very high importance
71%
3.
Diversity of Link Sources (links from many unique root domains)
67% very high importance
67%
4.
Keyword Use Anywhere in the Title Tag
66% very high importance
66%
5.
Trustworthiness of the Domain Based on Link Distance from Trusted Domains (e.g. TrustRank, Domain mozTrust, etc.)
66% very high importance [bold my addition]

[janeth]

Can you substantiate that? A poll of SEO Experts would suggest otherwise:

http://www.seomoz.org/article/search-ranking-factors

[bold my addition]

It looks like he said that it was very important. And your poll shows it as being very important.

Where's the problem?

[mjtaylor]

It looks like he said that it was very important. And your poll shows it as being very important.

Where's the problem?

I believe he said that keywords in domains are more important than in the title. :)

[janeth]

I believe he said that keywords in domains are more important than in the title. :)

It looks like he said url/domain, and I'd say they are also very important. Maybe even more important or as important.

[mjtaylor]

And you are welcome to your opinion, but apparently the experts don't agree with you. The article I linked to makes it pretty clear.

The truth is neither you nor I, nor experts more knowledgeable than we know for a fact which is more important, but I like to err on the side of those who clearly know more than I do.

[janeth]

And you are welcome to your opinion, but apparently the experts don't agree with you. The article I linked to makes it pretty clear.

The truth is neither you nor I, nor experts more knowledgeable than we know for a fact which is more important, but I like to err on the side of those who clearly know more than I do.

I've learned that most experts don't have a clue what they are talking about, so I don't put a lot into what they have to say.

The reason having the keyword in the URL helps more than having the keyword in the title is pretty simple.

There are times when sites will link to you with your URL only, by having the keyword in your URL you get the anchor with the keyword you want to rank for.

Now, where did they rank anchor text?

[mjtaylor]

I've learned that most experts don't have a clue what they are talking about, so I don't put a lot into what they have to say.

The reason having the keyword in the URL helps more than having the keyword in the title is pretty simple.

There are times when sites will link to you with your URL only, by having the keyword in your URL you get the anchor with the keyword you want to rank for.

Now, where did they rank anchor text?

You don't put any stock in what they have to say but you want to know where they rank anchor text? You're very funny.

[janeth]

You don't put any stock in what they have to say but you want to know where they rank anchor text? You're very funny.

You seemed to put a lot stock in what they had to say, I asked to prove a point.

Is that all you were able to get out of my post?

[mjtaylor]

There wasn't anything new in your post to get. I know that keywords in domain names are useful because the domain is often used as the anchor text.

[tiresmokindad]

Keywords plays a good role in SEO. These are the key for the searcher to look for the ideas that they are looking for. This is a knowledge where you can make your site more traffic and higher page rank in google search.

[janeth]

There wasn't anything new in your post to get. I know that keywords in domain names are useful because the domain is often used as the anchor text.

And you don't see how that would make it more useful then having it in the title?

[mjtaylor]

Not when the title is as heavily weighted in the algorithm as I believe it to be, no.

[janeth]

Not when the title is as heavily weighted in the algorithm as I believe it to be, no.

Okay...you build a site using the title and I'll build a site using the URL and less see who can get it to rank for a made up keyword.

[mjtaylor]

If it is important for you to prove your point, I think you should do that.

[janeth]

Seems that would be the smart way to go, however at the same time if you are going to post that one thing is weighed more than another, it should be tested before saying so.

Wouldn't you think?

[mjtaylor]

So, we should only present opinions we have tested? Or how about we present the opinions of others who are more expert and who are more likely to have done some testing? That's where I started.

As I said, if it is important to you to be right, you need to find the evidence yourself.

[janeth]

So, we should only present opinions we have tested? Or how about we present the opinions of others who are more expert and who are more likely to have done some testing? That's where I started.

As I said, if it is important to you to be right, you need to find the evidence yourself.

lol, I know I am correct, I test my stuff and don't rely on so called experts for my information.

[mjtaylor]

Then you win!

But, please do present your evidence.

[janeth]

Okay, it's been a while since I've done any testing but I'll set up a test just for you.

[GThomson]

Seems like this thread has strayed a bit from the original question that was raised.

I also agree that having the keywords within the URL can clearly have a massive impact. Certainly possible to get a site good rankings in a competitive area with little more than keywords within the domain.

[janeth]

Then you win!

But, please do present your evidence.

Okay, let me know if this works for you.

I've got two sites, one is http://icegal.com/ and the other is http://evilredmonkey.com/ neither have ever been touched. I've just loaded designs onto the sites this week.

Both designs are brand new.

I am going to add the keyword evil red monkey in the title of icegals but not in evilredmonkey.

Which one do you think will rank for evilredmonkey?

Oh wait...that's right, you and the experts have already spoken...so I'll just get on with my test.

[inertia]

Keywords in the domain are great and still a huge ranking factor but keywords in the URL (the folder/file structure part) are not in my experience a big ranking factor. And no way near as big as the title tag!

[janeth]

Keywords in the domain are great and still a huge ranking factor but keywords in the URL (the folder/file structure part) are not in my experience a big ranking factor. And no way near as big as the title tag!

I'm talking about in the domain name.

[inertia]

Didnt see the other 2 pages of posts! Still not used to this new layout. Havent been around much as the Bolivian connection makes navigating WPW a nightmare! In Peru now so it's more accessible. Whats the connection like in Columbia (in general)? Will be arriving there in about 3/4 weeks.

On topic.


I am going to add the keyword evil red monkey in the title of icegals but not in evilredmonkey.

Which one do you think will rank for evilredmonkey?

Great test. I reckon icegals will rank higher but I'd be interested to find out the results.

[janeth]

Didnt see the other 2 pages of posts! Still not used to this new layout. Havent been around much as the Bolivian connection makes navigating WPW a nightmare! In Peru now so it's more accessible. Whats the connection like in Columbia (in general)? Will be arriving there in about 3/4 weeks.

On topic.


Great test. I reckon icegals will rank higher but I'd be interested to find out the results.

Which part of Colombia are you coming to?

We have okay Internet here, nothing to write home about and I am just getting use to the new WPW look myself. Just started posting yesterday.

What's the reason for coming to Colombia?

[morestar]

Okay, let me know if this works for you.

I've got two sites, one is http://icegal.com/ and the other is http://evilredmonkey.com/ neither have ever been touched. I've just loaded designs onto the sites this week.

Both designs are brand new.

I am going to add the keyword evil red monkey in the title of icegals but not in evilredmonkey.

Which one do you think will rank for evilredmonkey?

OK I'm exited to see these results Janeth. It's great, you're always ready for a test...
At the moment I believe the evilredmonkey domain will rank out the icegals even though I'm slightly tossed at which one will rank higher.

Can I have the icegals domain when the test is over??? Pretty please??? Since I'm Canadian and we live in igloos!!! I promise I'll put it to good use and link back to your site for sure!

;)

[janeth]

OK I'm exited to see these results Janeth. It's great, you're always ready for a test...
At the moment I believe the evilredmonkey domain will rank out the icegals even though I'm slightly tossed at which one will rank higher.

Can I have the icegals domain when the test is over??? Pretty please??? Since I'm Canadian and we live in igloos!!! I promise I'll put it to good use and link back to your site for sure!

;)

I would have given it to you no questions asked last week but now that I've started playing with it I want to keep it.

Please don't be mad at me...I'm sorry. :(

[janeth]

OK I'm exited to see these results Janeth. It's great, you're always ready for a test...
At the moment I believe the evilredmonkey domain will rank out the icegals even though I'm slightly tossed at which one will rank higher.

Can I have the icegals domain when the test is over??? Pretty please??? Since I'm Canadian and we live in igloos!!! I promise I'll put it to good use and link back to your site for sure!

;)

In about 3 months there is going to be a brand new domain name extsion coming out called .co

.co for company, suppose to be bigger then .com and you can buy icegal.co :)

[inertia]

Which part of Colombia are you coming to?

We have okay Internet here, nothing to write home about and I am just getting use to the new WPW look myself. Just started posting yesterday.

What's the reason for coming to Colombia?

Don't really know what I'm going to do in Colombia yet. Probably head to Bogota and then maybe get up to Cartagena depending on how much time I have. I've been in South America for the last 5 months; Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia and I'm currently in Peru. Just backpacking around while working on the laptop. Climbed Machu Picchu last weekend which was great! Next stop Ecuador for a few weeks then into Colombia before heading back to the UK in July.

Do you have any recommendations for places to visit?

[janeth]

Armenia Quindio, it's the best spot in all of Colombia and it's where I live.

[Webnauts]

MJ, I did not read recently those experts opinions.

I know that keywords in the URL are not such an important factor that I would change them if they are already indexed. One of the reasons I would not is that I will need 301 redirects and I will dilute PR.

I hope that you agree, because I only scanned the thread on the fly.

[janeth]

At this point Evil Red Monkey is sitting at #2 and IceGal is no were to be found.

I have done nothing different between the two sites.

[mjtaylor]

EvelRedMonkey is at 52 in my Google, and IceGals is nowhere to be found. Hats off to you (white, black, grey and red)! My opinion is revised.

Now, what I want to understand, is how a page is indexed and showing up in the SERPs and not cached.

[janeth]

EvelRedMonkey is at 52 in my Google, and IceGals is nowhere to be found. Hats off to you (white, black, grey and red)! My opinion is revised.

Now, what I want to understand, is how a page is indexed and showing up in the SERPs and not cached.

We are not finished until one of them are at #1 and to be fair icegal should also go to #1 for it's name. I figure maybe 5 more days.

[mjtaylor]

Nonetheless!

By the way, I love the red monkey logo ...

And what do you think of the fact that it's indexed but not cached?

[janeth]

Nonetheless!

By the way, I love the red monkey logo ...

And what do you think of the fact that it's indexed but not cached?

The indexed but not cached is a little strange but I figure a couple blog post should take care of that.

I had one of my sites hacked and they put that logo on the hacked site, I liked it and decided to keep it. I figure the second they hacked into my site and put their logo it became mine.

[morestar]

Okay, let me know if this works for you.

I've got two sites, one is http://icegal.com/ and the other is http://evilredmonkey.com/ neither have ever been touched. I've just loaded designs onto the sites this week.

Both designs are brand new.

I am going to add the keyword evil red monkey in the title of icegals but not in evilredmonkey.

Which one do you think will rank for evilredmonkey?

Oh wait...that's right, you and the experts have already spoken...so I'll just get on with my test.

On my end, on Google.ca evilredmonkey.com is #3 and icegals was not in the top 100.

[morestar]

The indexed but not cached is a little strange but I figure a couple blog post should take care of that.

I had one of my sites hacked and they put that logo on the hacked site, I liked it and decided to keep it. I figure the second they hacked into my site and put their logo it became mine.

Oh sweet Janeth...

[janeth]

On my end, on Google.ca evilredmonkey.com is #3 and icegals was not in the top 100.

I was using the search term

evil red monkey

I was seeing it at #2 before but #3 now and that is in Google.com.

I want to get icegal to show up at #1 for ice gal to prove that the title didn't help it to rank for evil red monkey yet the url still allowed it to rank for ice gal.

[Tiggerito]

Dashes may even help your URL as it helps the search engines (and people) determine what the keywords are.

A good example is "Experts Exchange" which could have been interpreted as "Expert sEx change" if they didn't have dashes in their domain.

And I find keywords in the title do have a large effect. Don't spam though. Remember your title is shown in search results and so should be attractive to people.

I just came over this Matt Cutts video that he not only talks about using dashes, but he uses the "Experts Exchange" example!

http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/seo-for-bloggers/

[janeth]

Evil Red Monkey is #1 IceGal #2

[morestar]

Shweet...you did it right ??

[kgun]

And you are welcome to your opinion, but apparently the experts don't agree with you. The article I linked to makes it pretty clear.
I have seen that these socalled experts don't even know how to manipulate a poll.

http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/03/reader-poll-best-forums-for-search-marketing-tips/

See when the poll stopped.

Questions:


Waht make you call them experts?
Their observations?
Their intuition?
Their speculation or a
deep scientific report.

I have seen enough garbish reports where even seemingly advanced statistical methods were used, that I conclude that it is 99.9 percent probable that their reports can not produce a significant evidence that any of you are more correct.

It is easy to be named an expert online.
Interesting short run test.


I am going to add the keyword evil red monkey in the title of icegals but not in evilredmonkey.

You don't risk being penalized in the long run? But in the long run we are all dead.

[morestar]

I'm lost kgun - what's the problem here?

[kgun]

In about 3 months there is going to be a brand new domain name extsion coming out called .co

.co for company, suppose to be bigger then .com and you can buy icegal.co :)
In Norway, we have

.as (Aksje Selskap) (Ltd / Inc.)

Should that be popular in Asia?

I think that the person that bought the right to .tv that belonged to Tuvalu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.tv) made a forutune, though.

[kgun]

I'm lost kgun - what's the problem here?
That many people that produce what an academic would call nonsense is called experts. If I were ill and they were doctors, I would thing twice before I visited them.

I am sure that many of the best university pages only have internal links.

[kgun]

Don't really know what I'm going to do in Colombia yet. Probably head to Bogota and then maybe get up to Cartagena depending on how much time I have. I've been in South America for the last 5 months; Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia and I'm currently in Peru. Just backpacking around while working on the laptop. Climbed Machu Picchu last weekend which was great! Next stop Ecuador for a few weeks then into Colombia before heading back to the UK in July.

Do you have any recommendations for places to visit?
I have PM'd you about your visit to Norway.

[Webnauts]

I have seen that these socalled experts don't even know how to manipulate a poll.

http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/03/reader-poll-best-forums-for-search-marketing-tips/

See when the poll stopped.

Questions:



Waht make you call them experts?
Their observations?
Their intuition?
Their speculation or a
deep scientific report.


I have seen enough garbish reports where even seemingly advanced statistical methods were used, that I conclude that it is 99.9 percent probable that their reports can not produce a significant evidence that any of you are more correct.

Now this was a damn cool post Kjell! ;)

[kgun]

Put

www-toolbar.com

in the Google search box and hit enter

Look at the title of the site in both the cached and uncached version.

Cached version: Delivering WWW and root resources.

Online live version: WWW-Toolbar | WWW trends and use.

I changed the title to the online version to assumedly please Google, since I assumed that Google did not like the cached version.

But the site is still showing

Google Custom Service Ads.

In the long run, It shall be interesting to see if the Ads are tracking normally.

Or does Google wan't to censor content byond our "titles" "meta" and "anchor texts" etc.

Could Google dislike this story that I mention at the bottom of

http://www.www-toolbar.com/#wwwdrivers

this article, namely:

"Agreement reached between Norway and the Russian Federation in the negotiations on maritime delimitation

The issue of the maritime delimitation between Norway and the Russian Federation in the Barents Sea and the Arctic Ocean has been the object of extensive negotiations over the last 40 years. The negotiations have now been completed, but some technical control work remains before the final treaty is ready for signature. After that it will be considered by the two countries’ national assemblies".
Source: http://www.regjeringen.no/en/dep/smk/press-center/Press-releases/2010/Agreement-reached-between-Norway-and-the-Russian-Federation-in-the-negotiations-on-maritime-delimitation.html?id=601940

Google will of course never say what happened.

I assume the reason is the title of the page.

[kgun]

Online live version: WWW-Toolbar | WWW trends and use.
The devil is in the details whether he is red or not. It should be:

Online live version: WWW-Toolbar | WWW trends and news.

[kgun]

I thought of this, since the devel is in the details and there can be an error on the server, I will delete the site and reload it from my computer. So the link will be broken in the next few minutes.

Done and the problem remains the same.

[mjtaylor]

Evil Red Monkey is #1 IceGal #2


I think that is very interesting .... and I also wonder: since the title of evilrendmonkey.com has other colors in it .. could Google not see 'colors' as semantically related? What if the content was the same on both of them and all that was varied was the title tag and the domain? Doesn't everything else have to be equal to make the experiment accurate? What if you remove the text at the bottom with the domain name in it? That is content ... or added one instance of 'evilredmonkey.com' to icegal. Also, there are links from this thread to evilredmonkey ... which would sully the results, wouldn't it? I have removed those now, but it may be a long time before Google removes those links from its index.

I do recognize that the added benefit of having keywords in one's domain means that links to the domain will help in the SERPs, but if we are debating whether Google ranks the title more highly than a keyword in a domain, then I think the test has to be to sites without any backlinks, and evilredmonkey had two from this forum.

[kgun]

Doesn't everything else have to be equal to make the experiment accurate?
Usually, in scientific experiments that is true.

Do you think it would be possible to rank above amazon even if you bombareded your site with those keywords? Is there a difference between long and short run effects? What would happen when GoogeBot found that there is a domain http://evilredmonkey.com/ ?

[kgun]

A related WPW thread: Why do we call them websites anyway? (http://www.webproworld.com/webmaster-forum/threads/59465-Why-do-we-call-them-websites-anyway?p=318743&viewfull=1#post318743)

[louisejessica5]

Google ranks your website on the basis of some factors and keyword factor is also one of them.......

[Webnauts]

but if we are debating whether Google ranks the title more highly than a keyword in a domain, then I think the test has to be to sites without any backlinks, and evilredmonkey had two from this forum.
Very good point MJ! :)

[morestar]

I think that is very interesting .... and I also wonder: since the title of evilrendmonkey.com has other colors in it .. could Google not see 'colors' as semantically related? What if the content was the same on both of them and all that was varied was the title tag and the domain? Doesn't everything else have to be equal to make the experiment accurate? What if you remove the text at the bottom with the domain name in it? That is content ... or added one instance of 'evilredmonkey.com' to icegal. Also, there are links from this thread to evilredmonkey ... which would sully the results, wouldn't it? I have removed those now, but it may be a long time before Google removes those links from its index. .

This is very true. I didn't go farther than looking at the rankings but were both sites identical? Well no. I think the test would have been more accurate if both sites where idential, both without the keywords "evil red monkey" anywhere on any page accept for in the title of icegals and both having different versions of Lorem Ipsum on the page so both sites wouldn't have duplicate text.

Nice looking icegal I must say though...

Janeth we might have to revise the test !

[kgun]

A related WPW thread: Why do we call them websites anyway? (http://www.webproworld.com/webmaster-forum/threads/59465-Why-do-we-call-them-websites-anyway?p=318743&viewfull=1#post318743)
Did any of you read that short thread?

Since I personally regard the domain name as the eProperty, my priority of ceters paribus ranking is:


DomainName + DomainName in title. Nobody should beat that combination (unless it is scam / spam).
You should ceteris paribus rank highets for your domain name (unless it is scam / spam).
If your domain name is unrelated to your brand the title may give a better description of your business. But which is the most important ranking factor is perhaps not unique from case to case.

Note, even if both domains are indexed, that does not imply that Google have compared the different elements on both sites. It may take a long time to discover duplicate content and conflicting elements. The name of another brand / domain / company in the title tag of an unrelated site, I personally see that as a candidate for a legal dispute that may finally be solved in court if it is not obvious ((to the search engine)).

[goldsteinmedia]

Keywords in the title and in the URL are very important. Ranking for long tail keywords are easier to rank no. 1 or high up for than more specific and populated keywords.

[janeth]

Keywords in the title and in the URL are very important. Ranking for long tail keywords are easier to rank no. 1 or high up for than more specific and populated keywords.

Thanks for that great information; I had no idea that long tail keywords were easier to rank for.
And when quoting something that even people that don’t do SEO would know, I am amazed that you are able to screw it up.

You see a competitive keyword is less specific then a known competitive keyword. Other words, “wristbands” is more competitive then “custom designed rubber wristbands” but “custom designed rubber wristbands” tell me more about the product then “wristbands”.

So the more specific keyword would be the long tail keyword and the less specific keyword would be the more competitive keyword.

But glad you jumped in to let us know that competitive keywords are harder to rank for because I had no idea.

[goldsteinmedia]

Thanks for that great information; I had no idea that long tail keywords were easier to rank for.
And when quoting something that even people that don’t do SEO would know, I am amazed that you are able to screw it up.

You see a competitive keyword is less specific then a known competitive keyword. Other words, “wristbands” is more competitive then “custom designed rubber wristbands” but “custom designed rubber wristbands” tell me more about the product then “wristbands”.

So the more specific keyword would be the long tail keyword and the less specific keyword would be the more competitive keyword.

But glad you jumped in to let us know that competitive keywords are harder to rank for because I had no idea.

Wow way to drag me through the mud. Anyhow... excuse my ignorance. I've found that less exact and less broad keyterms are easier to rank for.

ex. ranking for social media marketing vs. Philadelphia social media marketing. The first one is a lot more broad and covers a broader area and is more competitive thus harder to rank for if you put your location before the keyword you'll have a smaller amount of competition.

Oh and by the way. Way to make a someone feel welcome by acting like a total snot. I appreciate it.

[goldsteinmedia]

Dashes may even help your URL as it helps the search engines (and people) determine what the keywords are.

A good example is "Experts Exchange" which could have been interpreted as "Expert sEx change" if they didn't have dashes in their domain.

And I find keywords in the title do have a large effect. Don't spam though. Remember your title is shown in search results and so should be attractive to people.

I totally agree. Make sure you use dashes and not _ under scores. 8)

[janeth]

Wow way to drag me through the mud. Anyhow... excuse my ignorance. I've found that less exact and less broad keyterms are easier to rank for.

ex. ranking for social media marketing vs. Philadelphia social media marketing. The first one is a lot more broad and covers a broader area and is more competitive thus harder to rank for if you put your location before the keyword you'll have a smaller amount of competition.

Oh and by the way. Way to make a someone feel welcome by acting like a total snot. I appreciate it.

I apologize for being rude, it’s just that having to stop what I am doing to check on a post that has basic information that is also incorrect is somewhat aggravating.

It seemed the post was written to educate me and I felt I had already past the part about long tail keywords being easy to rank for 8 years ago.

But again, I do apologize for being rude.

[janeth]

I think that is very interesting .... and I also wonder: since the title of evilrendmonkey.com has other colors in it .. could Google not see 'colors' as semantically related?
Are you saying that one site would rank over another because of the color of the site?


What if the content was the same on both of them and all that was varied was the title tag and the domain?
It wouldn’t matter since the keyword is not in the content on either site.


Doesn't everything else have to be equal to make the experiment accurate?
Not really

What if you remove the text at the bottom with the domain name in it?
That is content ... or added one instance of 'evilredmonkey.com' to icegal.
I can do that.


Also, there are links from this thread to evilredmonkey ... which would sully the results, wouldn't it? I have removed those now, but it may be a long time before Google removes those links from its index.
Now let’s look at my post before the test started

The reason having the keyword in the URL helps more than having the keyword in the title is pretty simple.

There are times when sites will link to you with your URL only, by having the keyword in your URL you get the anchor with the keyword you want to rank for.
Now without links Google want even find the site much less index it. Next you’ll be wanting me to remove the name from the URL.

I do recognize that the added benefit of having keywords in one's domain means that links to the domain will help in the SERPs, but if we are debating whether Google ranks the title more highly than a keyword in a domain, then I think the test has to be to sites without any backlinks, and evilredmonkey had two from this forum.
Again, read the post that got the test started and understand that with no backlinks we’ll have a hell of a time getting it to rank for anything.

[goldsteinmedia]

No prob it's behind us.

[mjtaylor]

Are you saying that one site would rank over another because of the color of the site?

No, because of the words black, grey and white in the title are colors and therefore semtantically related to red. Didn't I say the title?

Indeed, I am saying that I think it's possible that Google has a rudimentary knowledge of LSI, and that colors would be a logical group.


It wouldn’t matter since the keyword is not in the content on either site.


Not sure I agree. Without understanding what Google sees as semantically related ... I think content would need to be indentical. You are trying to isolate two factors.


Not really


So, scientific principles don't apply?




I can do that.


Now let’s look at my post before the test started

Now without links Google want even find the site much less index it. Next you’ll be wanting me to remove the name from the URL.

Again, read the post that got the test started and understand that with no backlinks we’ll have a hell of a time getting it to rank for anything.

Well, then the links would need to be Site1 and Site2 so that the anchor text doesn't affect the outcome. Of course, that is after Google reindexes these pages without the domain linked ...

[janeth]

Well, then the links would need to be Site1 and Site2 so that the anchor text doesn't affect the outcome. Of course, that is after Google reindexes these pages without the domain linked ...

You really need to read how the test got started, I quoted it once for you but will do it again.

And I have no idea what you are talking about with the colors can you explain it a little better?


The reason having the keyword in the URL helps more than having the keyword in the title is pretty simple.

There are times when sites will link to you with your URL only, by having the keyword in your URL you get the anchor with the keyword you want to rank for.


The reason having the keyword in the URL helps more than having the keyword in the title is pretty simple.

There are times when sites will link to you with your URL only, by having the keyword in your URL you get the anchor with the keyword you want to rank for.


The reason having the keyword in the URL helps more than having the keyword in the title is pretty simple.

There are times when sites will link to you with your URL only, by having the keyword in your URL you get the anchor with the keyword you want to rank for.

[goldsteinmedia]

I'm so lost. How do we justify the color of the words playing a part in SEO? That seems a bit odd to me. Am I off base or missing something?

[janeth]

No, because of the words black, grey and white in the title are colors and therefore semtantically related to red. Didn't I say the title?

Indeed, I am saying that I think it's possible that Google has a rudimentary knowledge of LSI, and that colors would be a logical group.


You win, the site is ranking there because I used the words black, grey and white.

Glad to see that you are really on top of this whole search engine optimization thing.

[janeth]

I'm so lost. How do we justify the color of the words playing a part in SEO? That seems a bit odd to me. Am I off base or missing something?

She believes that because I used the words, black, white and grey in the content of the site Google has put more weight on that then on the title tag.

She decided that if the site text had white, grey and black in it then it only made sense that the site was trying to rank for evil red monkey.

Makes perfect sense to me, if you want to rank for website design you should use the text pig, donkey and jackass in your text.

[janeth]

So…I’ve written a blog post, used the keyword evil red monkey in the title, in bold text, h1 tag and throughout the content and even created a page on the website titled evil red monkey and linked that page back to the home page.

The site also has the keyword evil red monkey on every page of the site.

No doubt there will be a temporary ranking increase and the ice gal website will move to #1 for a short period of time. But by the end of the week it will sit once again at #2.

And the evil red monkey site didn’t get content about evil red monkeys added to it nor did it get a page about evil red monkeys or h1 tags with evil red monkeys in the h1 tags. Yet the evil red monkey website will continue to out rank the ice gal website because it’s red.

That’s right the color red will out rank a blue website every time. It’s just the way it is.

[kgun]

That’s right the color red will out rank a blue website every time. It’s just the way it is.
Funny woman.

Now I see where you come from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP4IcQUDLmI

[janeth]

Funny woman.

Now I see where you come from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP4IcQUDLmI

Yes, Colombia is a neat place to live.

The funny thing is that even after adding the keyword in bold text, H1 Tags and putting the keyword site wide it still didn't out rank the Evil Red Monkey website.

It has to be a color thing.

[goldsteinmedia]

She believes that because I used the words, black, white and grey in the content of the site Google has put more weight on that then on the title tag.

She decided that if the site text had white, grey and black in it then it only made sense that the site was trying to rank for evil red monkey.

Makes perfect sense to me, if you want to rank for website design you should use the text pig, donkey and jackass in your text.

Okay well that's just plain silly. There is no possible way that color plays a part in SEO and if it does for some strange reason it's no where near a huge ranking factor.

[mjtaylor]

Perhaps not. It was a question not a statement. And not so silly. We do know that Google is adding elements of LSI - latent semantic indexing. We don't know to what extent they have done so, but when you think of broad categories, color might be one of them, so blue and green and purple might be "LSI related" to red. Just asking, not stating categorically.


She believes that because I used the words, black, white and grey in the content of the site Google has put more weight on that then on the title tag.

She decided that if the site text had white, grey and black in it then it only made sense that the site was trying to rank for evil red monkey.

Makes perfect sense to me, if you want to rank for website design you should use the text pig, donkey and jackass in your text.

Nope, you got that pretty much all wrong. I asked a question. I didn't say I believed it! And you would twist a question into a statement of my beliefs because?????

You're saying that other colors are as unrelated to red, as animals are to web design?

Illogical.

[janeth]

Perhaps not. It was a question not a statement. And not so silly. We do know that Google is adding elements of LSI - latent semantic indexing. We don't know to what extent they have done so, but when you think of broad categories, color might be one of them, so blue and green and purple might be "LSI related" to red. Just asking, not stating categorically.



Nope, you got that pretty much all wrong. I asked a question. I didn't say I believed it! And you would twist a question into a statement of my beliefs because?????

You're saying that other colors are as unrelated to red, as animals are to web design?

Illogical.

Any comment on the fact that you have evil red monkey in title tag, h1 tags, bold text, site wide and everything else and still not ranking above the evil red monkey website?

And the evil red monkey website only has it in the url.

Talking about an unfair test.

[goldsteinmedia]

Ah I see. Okay. It's very possible that they are factoring in color but I think it's ever going to be a major factor. But with Google, who really knows.

[janeth]

Perhaps not. It was a question not a statement. And not so silly. We do know that Google is adding elements of LSI - latent semantic indexing. We don't know to what extent they have done so, but when you think of broad categories, color might be one of them, so blue and green and purple might be "LSI related" to red. Just asking, not stating categorically.



Nope, you got that pretty much all wrong. I asked a question. I didn't say I believed it! And you would twist a question into a statement of my beliefs because?????

You're saying that other colors are as unrelated to red, as animals are to web design?

Illogical.

Okay, the home page for IceGal is not longer in the top ten even though the keyword is in the title, h1 tags, bold text, and on every page on the site.

However, the article I wrote about evil red monkeys and posted on IceGals is ranked #3.
No bad,

However, evil red monkey is ranked number 1 and 2. And the keyword is not in the title, content, bold text, or an H tags.

Seems like I proved my point.

[Webnauts]

I am following the thread from the very first beginning and I am still missing something.

What is the big deal for ranking nr. 1 for the term "evil red monkeys". For example I can rank almost instantly for a term like "good blue bananas".

Or am I missing something?

[janeth]

I am following the thread from the very first beginning and I am still missing something.

What is the big deal for ranking nr. 1 for the term "evil red monkeys". For example I can rank almost instantly for a term like "good blue bananas".

Or am I missing something?

You are missing something.

I was trying to show that having the keyword in the URL helps more than having it in the title tag.
Reason being that people will sometimes link to your website with the URL instead of anchor text. By having the keyword in the title you get the keyword in the anchor text either way.

[Webnauts]

You are missing something.

I was trying to show that having the keyword in the URL helps more than having it in the title tag.
Reason being that people will sometimes link to your website with the URL instead of anchor text. By having the keyword in the title you get the keyword in the anchor text either way.
Ah ok, got ya. And yes, that makes a lot of sense.

[kgun]

Write for your readers and not for the search engines. When writing your articles, it's important that you prioritize your readers over the search engines. You need to make sure that these people will find your articles well-written and very informative. When this happens, you can easily get them to subscribe to your newsletters or who knows, you can convince them to buy from you.
Well written? Hm.

Informative? Yes.

Typical example: http://www.w3schools.com/ Norwegian seaman's English, but rank high for nearly everything related to web development.

[rohit_tripathi60]

Interesting thread, so much to learn, Jeneth currently that icegal article ranks no.1 for the term "evil red monkey" and the other site is on 3rd, which means in the long term the site with keywords in tag, content would win?