Structure - Content - Presentation

[ChrisRC]

I've been searching for a while now, but have yet to see a (preferably open source) CMS that does a really good job of keeping Structure, Content, and Presentation seperate. As I see it, the ideal solution would be:

Content:
Programming Logic generates an XML string, possibly cached as a file for future access

Structure:
XSLT handles the data generated as appropriate to the site/specific application at least on the module level, if not the overall site/page level.

Presentation:
CSS to customize appearence

In the past, I've always created 1-off custom CMS systems offering just the features my client needs, using the terminology they're familiar with and as simple an interface as possible for them. This does get to be time-consuming though, and I would like to offer a less work/less expensive alternative.

It seems like every time I go to modify a "theme" or otherwise customize the appearence of whichever CMS I'm currently testing though, I end up searching through several files, digging down into the programming logic and changing the way things are done, just to change how they look.

Doing this isn't beyond my abilities, but time spent doing this detracts from the advantage of using an existing CMS to begin with. It seems like at some point I might as well just roll my own... Or build the generic CMS I'm looking for.

Anyone else feel this way? Anyone found a solution?

Chris
crcdesign.net

[thusmann]

Have you had a chance to review DotNetNuke? Kinda bulky for a simple website, but perfect for high end corporate internal or public sites. With all of the third party addon modules available, it is capable of almost everything that M$ $harepoint can do.

Also, if you setup a full install for yourself, you can create subportals for any of your clients using the shared code base.

http://www.dotnetnuke.com

[networkdomain]

We reviewed 25 different CMS systems for our latest project and chose *drumroll* BigMedium from http://www.globalmoxie.com.

It is not open source, but its features are impressive and the price is very reasonable, making it attractive for non-profits and small businesses.

We've also developed a portal using PostNuke, which is very stable and open source but may be too bulky for some installations.

Good luck with your decision -


Sue Cline

[customle]

Which one of these CMS systems are also best for ranking purposes? I've been seriously wanting to start using a CMS such as described, but afraid it would adversely affect my ranking. Anyone know?

Thanks.

[Maxlamenace]

Hi there,

I know a very powerful system that is quite easy to use. It is extremely flexible and it allows to create and manage multiple websites. There are 5 user levels and it can be used to create websites, intranets, Extranets or combinations of the 3. It is e-commerce enabled and I really think you should have a look at it.

Agora was developed by a friend of mine and he could probably help you a little with regards to support if you don't exaggerate :).

You can download it here http://www.agora-fr.org//module/webd...load.php?id=67 and have a go at trying it.

If you have any questions please send me private message or contact me through my website.

Max

[spice]

On the open source front, textpattern is tremendously promising. At the moment it's geared primarily towards blogs and the like, but it's the first CMS I've seen that's comprised basically entirely of valid code, sensible markup, 100% separation of content and code, and extremely well written source.

It's still in development but definitely usable at this stage. It could be easily used to develop a small commercial site, and with some work I imagine it could be adapted pretty easily to larger tasks.[/url]

[acsinclair]

Thanks for the heads up on Textpattern...looks promising. I also like WordPress(more of a blogging utility...but I use it for all kinds of stuff).

[networkdomain]

Originally Posted by customle

Which one of these CMS systems are also best for ranking purposes? I've been seriously wanting to start using a CMS such as described, but afraid it would adversely affect my ranking. Anyone know?

Thanks.

Before we made the final decision on which system to use, we checked the organic rankings for a site using the Big Medium system. We used ParisMuse.com as a baseline (oldest site) and found them ranked between #1 and #6 for organic placement on Google and Yahoo.

The cruft-free URL system appears to make a major difference, as does the spider map that is automatically generated (but invisible to surfers).

You should be concerned about ranking - one of the best features of a CMS is to be able to create keyword rich content. If it isn't indexable, what is the point?


Sue

[customle]

NETWORKDOMAIN wrote
You should be concerned about ranking - one of the best features of a CMS is to be able to create keyword rich content. If it isn't indexable, what is the point?

Isn't that the truth!

Thanks you guys.

[blgibbons]

Originally Posted by networkdomain

Before we made the final decision on which system to use, we checked the organic rankings for a site using the Big Medium system. We used ParisMuse.com as a baseline (oldest site) and found them ranked between #1 and #6 for organic placement on Google and Yahoo.

Sue

Like Sue I am a Big Medium user (and unofficial solution provider if anyone needs help with installation, templating, etc.) I LOOOOVVVE this program.

However, there is one small caveat on SEO that I've been harping about on the BM forums. Sue is right, that BM is carefully designed to be search-engine friendly. But it currently asks too much of individual data fields. Example: each piece of content gets one title field, which must potentially populate the page title tag, the display title, the title that appears in automatically-generated links throughout the site, headings for external news feeds, and navigation menus. As I get more into SEO for my clients I find myself having to make some tough calls. See this work-in-progress for a case in point:

http://www.chicagopianoservice.com/m...es/index.shtml

In the left-side subnav that I repeat the word "piano" which makes the menu repetitive. And check out the "Dampp-Chaser" section. What a mouthful! But at least this client has some good content.

(The SEO isn't finalized so all this may change. Any feedback would be welcome.)

A separate META title and description will be in the next version -- the developer is extremely responsive to user feedback. (Yet another selling point.)

And any complaint I have should take into consideration that they're now working on version 1.4 -- what they've achieved at this early stage is absolutely stunning.

[networkdomain]

However, there is one small caveat on SEO that I've been harping about on the BM forums. Sue is right, that BM is carefully designed to be search-engine friendly. But it currently asks too much of individual data fields. Example: each piece of content gets one title field, which must potentially populate the page title tag, the display title, the title that appears in automatically-generated links throughout the site, headings for external news feeds, and navigation menus. As I get more into SEO for my clients I find myself having to make some tough calls. See this work-in-progress for a case in point:

http://www.chicagopianoservice.com/m...es/index.shtml

In the left-side subnav that I repeat the word "piano" which makes the menu repetitive. And check out the "Dampp-Chaser" section. What a mouthful! But at least this client has some good content.

(The SEO isn't finalized so all this may change. Any feedback would be welcome.)

A separate META title and description will be in the next version -- the developer is extremely responsive to user feedback. (Yet another selling point.)

Bonnie,

You're right, and in fairness I should have mentioned that drawback. I am not sure that it is so significant it would count as keyword spam, but if you aren't careful in keyword choice, it could be perceived that way.

That could be a serious drawback on a niche/theme site, just so I'm being fair.

I've thought of a few work-arounds for the issue, but I haven't started my implimentation just yet so I can't show you how they're working.

I *will* take a look and see if I can offer some suggestions, however - it looks like an interesting site and I know I'm going to need all the favors I can get with my own implimentation...LOL


Sue

[jandel1313]

Moregroupware is an awsome software. You can find it and many other open source programs at www.sourceforge.net

[Conficio]

Hi there,
I like what apache has to offer in this regard.

There is Cocoon, which is a good platform for rolling your own. I love it, to even generate static sites out of the general structure.

On top of that you can use Lenya, a CMS build by a swiss news paper!

Take care

K<o>

[ryan4jeep]

Anyone interested in a cms that has an Internet marketing console to organize and manage your complete online business. click on the link below this thing is amazing.

[cgadmin]

I wanted to second the mention of WordPress as a decent starting tool for building sites. Yes, it's a blog tool. But with the core centered around validating XHTML, and a small PHP codebase, it works out well. I actually think of it as "CMS light".

I use WordPress (plus my own extensions) to run my site, and wouldn't go and use one of the 'real CMS' apps. I like the small code, that I can get into and edit if needed, and don't need all the junk that n*kes have built up as modules.

The graphic design of my site shouldn't subtract from the underlying power of running a dynamic presentation system... ;)

-d

[robinev]

A threads like this is one of the reasons I've been coming back more frequently to WPW. Thanks to all who contributed.

I've just started sorting through all the alternatives to find something that might help me get others to contribute to a small non-profit site (which generally means looking to an open-source free or cheap solution).

I'm still sorting through the many suggestions here, but I can start to see patterns among the contenders. The offerings that impress me most on initial viewings are TextPattern (wow! what superb design on their site), Typo3, and maybe Drupal.

But there are so many others to consider. And... there's a live site to work on... And... Oh -- sigh.

[HardCoded]

TextPattern is very slick, standards-based, and will auto-generate a nice .htaccess file that will make your URLs spider-friendly.

Plus it has this thing where you can send it an email and that becomes your blog post.

And you can edit the template right in your browser.

[robinev]

I read through the TextPattern documentation and many of the forum posts yesterday and I'm even more impressed. I plan to download it later today or tomorrow and start playing with it.

I really do like their standards-based approach to things. TextPattern seems like a program that elegantly extends what a user already knows about html and xml.

Plus, I don't want a web site that looks like a piece of cheap plastic electronics equipment, so I'm not too impressed with the *nuke family of programs with their "template" approach to design.

[AJones]

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Your Replies will be kind appreciated.

[Iouri]

You can try Bitrix Site Manager. It is free for 30 days, so you can understand if it meets your needs.