what language should I learn?

[aandy501]

Hi I'm wondering what language is the best to learn this days? i mean there's alot of languages there.. PHP,ROR,ASP,etc? any recommendation?
I know HTML,CSS,some Javascript and a lil PHP and MYSQL.

[kgun]

Not all of what you mention can be called languages.

1. May be the fastest and easiest is Ruby on Rails and simultaneously start learning
2. PHP and its OO features.

[DaveSawers]

I would recommend PHP or .NET

[lspence]

As kgun mentioned, not all that you mentioned are languages. So I'll just use the word "tools" as a catch all phrase.

You know html, and css, both of which will serve you well. Javascript is fine, but realize that it has limitations. (Some browsers can't read it, or has it turned off)

Since you already know a little PHP, I'd say keep learning and experimenting with it.

MySQL is a great free database. Be sure to learn SQL commands, it will come in handy with any database. There are a lot of great resources on the web, here's one... SQL Tutorial Databases are great, but unless you know how to get information to, and from it, they're useless. So learn and understand SQL commands. That'll make you a better PHP programmer.

[deepsand]

Without knowing in which environments you expect to be working, it's difficult to know.

If you expect to become involved in application development or support, you may find PERL, VB, and/or VB Script to be of value.

[iandoc]

Given the dominance of Microsoft, I decided asp and then asp.net was the way forward (assuming, like me, you only have limited time to allocate to a new language).

[craigmn3]

php seems to be the most agile of all the programming styles, I would get proficient in it first, then move on to the others.....but who I am to talk I am still trying to master English.

I always suggest the learn as you go approach

[langsor]

Of course I can only speak from my own personal experience, and some of the developers I talk to have different opinions...

I started out learning Action Script for Flash 5 then extended that to the browser environment with JavaScript. I figured I should learn some server side language and started to teach myself Perl and then added some SQL to talk to MySQL databases, but Perl was a beast for me to learn and I finally decided to bite the bullet and teach myself PHP also -- a decision I've never regretted. Of course I can also use CSS to great depth and (x)HTML or XML as needed.

Other people I know prefer Perl over PHP (but they haven't tried PHP either), or have learned ColdFusion as database middle ware.

So it would seem I support PHP, and I do. But it also really depends on what work environment you are going to be in. If you are an independent developer, sub-contractor, or freelancer then PHP may be just the ticket. If you are going to be working for an agency doing web development then you might want to consider ASP instead. I know squat about ASP except that my friend works in an international marketing agency and the "good money" there is either knowing ASP or being a Flash developer.

In short, PHP has a ton of functionality and can do anything I will ever set my hand to (which is quite a bit) and more, with a multitude of built-in functionality and extensions just waiting to tap into.

About JavaScript: It is wonderful, easy, and fun to use. I only use it for functionality that does not matter or will still be functional (if in a more-limited capacity) if the visitor has it turned off in their browser or if it's not available.

About Action Script: Flash is great -- don't listen to all the nay-sayers out there -- it can be light and fast and functional-navigable if you do it correctly (key point here). It also is in ~98% of browsers installed (after downloading the plugin) if you believe what the statistics say. The nice thing is that what you do in Flash will be darn close to the same on whatever browser displays it, something you can't say with HTML, CSS, or JavaScript. Plus it's big money if you become truly skilled in it and get your foot in the marketplace doing it.

Hope some of this helped,

langsor

[Terry Van Horne]

I started as a Perl guy! Still use it for writing crawlers and text manipulation at command line.
If you think you are going to be working for a major company or have a lot of mid to SOHO clients then .NET (formerly .asp) using C# will be a smart choice. VB and VBScript are deprecated ie support from M$ will at some point disappear.

Also learning basic programming is likely better to start with than a language. Knowing how to determine the solution ti a problem and diagram the flow and functions ie for->Next while-> loop or if-> then is more important than knowing a language. Learning a language is for the most part learning syntax and garbage collection/disposal of the variables. If you understand the basics of programming then you can pick up any language quickly, that's what the docs and reference material is for. My first year I learned a lot of Perl, too much JS and Java and just enough C to understand Perl a bit better.

[bj]

Since most servers these days are Linux, I'd stick with the languages and scriptiing languages that work best there. PHP and Perl, which are syntactically similar, are both of value, and powerful in different ways, and can be learned at the same time. Coupling this with learning RegEx (not a language, per se, but shortcuts that make many languages more powerful) and Mysql would make you marketable. I would also suggest learning how xml works if you wish to work on the web side of things. And if you want to work toward true gut programmer proficiency I'd head toward Java, instead of the scripting languages.

[bj]

About Action Script: Flash is great -- don't listen to all the nay-sayers out there -- it can be light and fast and functional-navigable if you do it correctly (key point here). It also is in ~98% of browsers installed (after downloading the plugin) if you believe what the statistics say.

Problem is that if flash is installed but turned off by a browser add-on such as flashblock or ad blockers, they still show as "on" in those statistics. Everybody I know who uses firefox uses one of those add ons. I do. That way I can watch the videos I want to watch and avoid the dancing pink flamingoes trying to sell me viagra.

[datetopia]

With php and mysql you can do all types of regular content websites. Hosting is also very affordable for php and mysql.

If you need streaming, online interactive features you can also add flash and actionscript to that.

[Orion]

If you already know those ones, keep learning them better... lol..

want an add on my personal would be extending into Ajax more, and ya keep brushing up on the others.. it's a constant battle.. enjoyable though. I also want to focus more into accessibility (just stupid numbers of lawsuits coming out about that now up here in Canada).

my 2cents...

[rstover]

While it's not a language per se, I'd think a very effective thing to learn, if you haven't already, is how to use server-side includes (SSI) as a way to reduce the maintenace of redundant coding.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by bj

Since most servers these days are Linux, ...

Apache continues to lose ground to IIS. See Web Server Survey Archives - Netcraft .

[rgcote]

It depends on what you want to do. If you want to build your own websites or build websites for friends or small businesses, then I would say PHP is your best best. It is free and you can build sites quickly with it. But make sure you understand how to build sites that are secure and hack proof using PHP.

If you are looking for a career path and/or hope to work on large scale web sites/web applications then you are better off getting really good at .NET using C#. You can make more money as a good C#/SQLServer developer than you can as a PHP/MySQL developer. Especially if you want to be a consultant or a contractor.

We just went through a round of interviewing to hire a .NET developer and the rates that some of the really good developers were getting were quite high ($100+/hour). I don't see any PHP people getting those kinds of rates.

[DaveSawers]

Originally Posted by bj

... avoid the dancing pink flamingoes trying to sell me viagra.

I'd like to see that. What's the link?

[Terry Van Horne]

Originally Posted by bj

Since most servers these days are Linux, .

Site your source please because most can be a lot... every large corporate business I've worked was Windoze. Linux is big on the net and IMO, not even the best platform using the NIX kernel (Apple does as well) but... it's not so big in the corporate headquarters of companies that can actually pay for their software. As deepsand mentions apache is being challenged by IIS.

Originally Posted by bj

I'd stick with the languages and scriptiing languages that work best there.

As someone who has programmed Perl on both platforms I'd say you are wrong, in fact the Windoze Active Perl package is easier to maintain and version than the NIX. Windoze Perl can not fork a process that is the only difference. By the way PHP is not a NIX specific programming language so... if you learn Perl and PHP you are covered on both platforms but... there is not a lot of support for Perl or PHP by Windoze administartors.

Originally Posted by bj

Mysql would make you marketable..

Mysql is Not transactionable database (can't rollback a database entry) The SQL query language means your good to go on many databases some functions vary across platforms and Oracle likes to do everything differently but... the SQL query language is the best place to start because you can't even do MySQL without it and it is actually quite easy to learn the basics. I taught myself in about three weeks.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by Terry Van Horne

... the SQL query language is the best place to start because you can't even do MySQL without it and it is actually quite easy to learn the basics. I taught myself in about three weeks.

Correct link is SQL Tutorial .

[Orion]

Originally Posted by Terry Van Horne

Site your source please because most can be a lot... every large corporate business I've worked was Windoze. Linux is big on the net and IMO, not even the best platform using the NIX kernel (Apple does as well) but... it's not so big in the corporate headquarters of companies that can actually pay for their software. As deepsand mentions apache is being challenged by IIS.

Large corporations that can support in-house websites and Intranet usually do opt for Windows (easier to hire IT that can support your employees as well as Intranet, Internet, and Extranet.

From any research I've done IIS is in around the 35% market share and Apache just over the 50% mark. In the last couple of years however IIS has been increasing it's share (was down in the low 30's a couple years ago) and Apache has lost a few % points in the market.

I think where a lot of that comes from is that the majority of websites on the Net are not run by large corporations that can support their own IT departments. I know I'm getting more and more medium sized companies outsourcing their hosting and support to us in the last couple of years, as it just isn't fiscally viable for them to employ someone full time to do the work.

You are totally correct though that gone are the days when PHP was not advisable to use on IIS, and learn SQL then the minor differences between ms and my are not difficult to handle.

[Easywebdev]

To Terry Van Horne, I would have to agree most large corporate systems are in fact IIS microsoft based systems. This is due to the fact that *nix systems (though better systems) do not have the same corporate licensing and support agreements.

When it comes down to the smaller hosting issues and not tied into microsoft agreements then I think we all know that the LAMP (linux, apache, mysql, php/perl) platform outperforms the WIMP (windows, iis, mysql, php/perl) platform. (not my abbreviations ).


SQL systems become irrelevant rather quickly when dealing with the corporate sector (transactions and rollbacks on failed inserts are king). It is easy to write a database abstraction layer (interface) that can be easily adapted to work with various enterprise relational database management systems. But that is in my opinion less than 20% of the net.

For quick dirty database calls to power a website then mysql is the tool, transactions in this environment? who needs them in a stateless application?

To the original poster.
What do you want to do? develop websites then your choices are php, asp, ruby, java, etc.
You want to get involved in the games sector? then its C, C++, perhaps C# for sockets based games.
Like all languages, who do you want to talk to?

[Peter (IMC)]

I guess it mostly depends on what you want to do, but if your goal is to build websites I'd go for php, HTML and CSS.

It will save you a lot of money.

[kgun]

I mostly agree with Peter, but have any of you used Ruby on Rails? I have not myself, but my information is that is fast to learn, efficient and flexible and may be a natural next step after you have learned to tag and style. It can be good enough for small projects and good enough is sometimes best.

My favourite for large professional projects is C++Builder product page and an Oracle database solution.

Originally Posted by Easywebdev

SQL systems become irrelevant rather quickly when dealing with the corporate sector (transactions and rollbacks on failed inserts are king). It is easy to write a database abstraction layer (interface) that can be easily adapted to work with various enterprise relational database management systems. But that is in my opinion less than 20% of the net.

Hm Hm

[kgun]

Originally Posted by Terry Van Horne

... the SQL query language is the best place to start because you can't even do MySQL without it and it is actually quite easy to learn the basics. I taught myself in about three weeks.

Then I will recommend a search for:

"Do I need to learn SQL?"

Related:

"learn SQL" site:sitepoint.com

Book(s):

The SitePoint Book Matrix


More precisely: Build*Your*Own Database*Driven*Website Using*PHP*&*MySQL - SitePoint Books

And there is a pedagogocal point of view:

If you want to learn OOP, I do not know of a more pedagogical language than Simula. It is still used here. If you want to learn design patterns try Simula's son BETA. You find more information on the site in the third link in my signature.

What has NIX to do with the choice of language? Please explain.

NIX

Links:
Nix

Nix Papers

Package management system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


(Other IT related uses of NIX).
Norwegian Internet Exchange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NIX homepage

[Terry Van Horne]

NIX- Many OS Platforms use a Unix kernel I use the term NIX to refer to all versions. Linux is one of many UNIX OS.

Sorry to start a platform war my point was if you don't want to be limited to website development for yourself and others then languages with strong ties to web development/UNIX are not well supported by corporate Decision Maker's and network admins. I have used both and basically believe in a few cases one or the other may do something better... IMO, no language is perfect for every job.

[kgun]

Originally Posted by Terry Van Horne

NIX- Many OS Platforms use a Unix kernel I use the term NIX to refer to all versions. Linux is one of many UNIX OS.

Sorry to start a platform war my point was if you don't want to be limited to website development for yourself and others then languages with strong ties to web development/UNIX are not well supported by corporate Decision Maker's and network admins. I have used both and basically believe in a few cases one or the other may do something better... IMO, no language is perfect for every job.

Ok, but

Originally Posted by kgun

My favourite for large professional projects is C++Builder product page and an Oracle database solution.

Then, is there a "better" plattform than Borland's C++ Builder?. It is not free, and C++ is by many regarded as the "next generation portable assembler" (note my quotes).

I have not used it for Web developement, but if the C++Builder 2007 is as good as the one I have for desktop development I don't know any serious competitor. When I used the compiler in the 1990's, for natural reasons, aside from the Windows API classes, it integrated Microsofts class library better than Microsoft's C++ compiler.

I have some examples on my extranet.

[Terry Van Horne]

Originally Posted by kgun

I have not used it for Web developement, but if the C++Builder 2007 is as good as the one I have for desktop development I don't know any serious competitor. When I used the compiler in the 1990's, for natural reasons, aside from the Windows API classes, it integrated Microsofts class library better than Microsoft's C++ compiler.

kgun, the .NET language supported best is a new language called c#. C++ like Vb and VBscript I believe M$ has stated are deprecated languages and at some point there is the issue of M$ discontinuing service packs etc. and support for these languages.

[kgun]

I have looked at C# also a C inspired language. I know the possibility to parametrice code, that was already available in the 1990's by C++.

There is one huge difference between Microsoft and Borland. Microsoft is much better on Advertising.

C#'s intellisense autocompleten is impressing.

Still in the 1990's Borland C++ Builder had impressing RAD functionality.

Links:

CodeGear Developer Network Home Page

Cross-platform Development with Borland RAD Tools

IBM DB2/Borland RAD portal

CodeGear Borland RAD Studio 2007 Enterprise (BDE0007WWFS190) - Product details - CheckoutSoftware.com

ASP .NET C# integrates with DreamWeaver 2004 MX. I don't know how C++ integrates with the last version or wheter it integrates at all. But If you use Borland C++ builder, that may be unnecessary sine that IDE may be good enough as a stand alone application.

Ruby on Rails (that I have not tried) and PHP + JavaScript (DOM) is good enough at present.