Old menu script now out of date - what should I tell clients?

[gelcreative]

Hi all

In 2003 I bought a drop down menu script from Opencube and it was wonderful and I used it extensively on client sites and have been doing so right up til recently as I got used to how to use it.

However, it now seems that the latest update to IE7 no longer works with that menu, presumeably configurations have changed. I asked Opencube about it and they said that that particular product was archived some time before the release of IE7 so there is no guarantee that it will work (well obviously it doesn't anymore). That's fair enough, they are now working on far superior products.

The question I have relates to the clients on whose sites I have implemented that menu (probably about 6 client sites). As I know that the menu system is probably failing right now in some of their visitors browsers, should I tell the client the whole situation and ask them for money to rebuild the menu? Should I wait for them to ask me? Should I do it without charging? (please don't say 'yes' to this one!)

My terms and conditions have/do state that I can only build sites to today's browsers and any advancements in technology in the future I cannot be held responsible for (or words to that effect) so I pretty much feel I've covered myself..... but I feel guilty that I'm not doing something about it.

Any views?

[wige]

As far as notification, I think that responsibility lies with you. As the developer of the site, you are the one in the position to know about issues with libraries you have used on multiple sites first, and should notify those clients as soon as possible. How the client responds - hiring you to implement a fix, continuing to use the broken system, correcting it internally, whatever - is up to them.

This may be a chance, though, to reestablish contact with old clients. If there is an available fix, such as a new version of the menu, find out if there would be discounts on multiple licenses, and offer a discounted price to the customers as an upgrade - show your clients that even long after your project ended you are still keeping on top of issues affecting their sites, and are ready with solutions. That is something clients are likely to remember.

[LinksAndTraffic]

I am not saying that this is what you should do, but this is what I would do.

1. Find a programmer to handle the fix and figure out the cost.

2. Pro-actively contact your people and tell them that Microsoft's new IE7 build no longer works with the menus that you had used on their site, when you built the site. Tell them that you need to hire a programmer to make the scripts cross-browser compatible. Tell them that you will split the cost with them for the upgrade on the script.

3. Split the cost of programming between all of the people who participate in the upgrade.

Bill

[bj]

I would suggest you tell them soonest, before someone else does.

You can also suggest to them that maybe their whole site structure could use with a skeletal workover to take advantage in changes that have happened to coding standards. I imagine those sites may be a mass of tables and javascript, though a few of us were already using xhtml/css then. It's a chance to upsell. Think RSS feeds and accessibility.

[Silverback]

There are certain aspects of business that cry out to be addressed. On the basis that your Terms & Conditions specifically address issues of technology advancements and hold you harmless then I would highly recommend you do the following in this order.

Quickly find an appropriate solution, finding all costs and client benefits.
Contact the involved clients immediately (as Wige states it affords an opportunity for additional contact) and in contacting those impacted clients

1. advise them of the issue; that perhaps they are aware of it;
2. offer them the solution along with the chargeable price.
3. DO NOT apologize for improved advancements in technology or infer a reduced price to correct "the problem". Since it is neither your problem nor your creation, no apology is needed and once you start feeling badly it is a slippery slope to minimizing your profits.
4. Tell the client you can make the corrections to improve the functionality of their website by (DATE) and be sure to stick to it when needed.

I say this from the standpoint of a business owner who deals with IT and other suppliers on a regular basis and lean towards those who are on their toes, with competitive prices and clearly, the expertise to do the CURRENT job effectively and within the time frame that meets my demands.

The Best of luck

[advancedmerchant]

I think it would be in your best business interest to proactively alert your customers about the problem.

However, you are neither Opencube nor Microsoft, and the incompatibility of the two was not caused by you. I would tell your clients this, then offer them a discount to replace the menu diring a specified time frame. This will allow you to find a menu with a discount on multiple licenses, and "group" the work, reducing your costs, which you can pass onto the clients.

[gwhite]

You have got to tell the clients that IE 7 is affecting the menu system. I would also give them a price to get their website up to current technology levels. You can also trade them for a written or video taped testimonial if you think that would help future marketing efforts. This is not your fault, but it is your opportunity. A favorite saying of mine "Today's problems are yesterday's solutions." seems to fit here.

[Crawdad]

I agree, this is a great opening to reconnect with old clients. You built the sites five years ago, and your terms covered the cost of any changes at this point.

By contacting them you are in fact telling them all these years later that you care. Which I believe will bring some new work your way.

Just be honest and tell them what it's going to cost to get it fixed, and then fix it for those clients that opt to have you do the work.

Either way you have done more than some would do, and can sleep easy knowing that you are looking out for their best interest. Even if they don't opt to have you do the upgrade.

Because that's what it is, an upgrade.

[kcire]

I would be glad this only happened about 6 times and not more.

The responsibility should (but only as a gentleman!) be with you.

When you are out to get money you could think of some form of charging them of course. But in this case I think it would be 'a good service' if you fixed it and following notified the client and ask if they need more help with something...Because times have changed and all that.

But...On the other hand...If it's clients from years ago and there hasn't been contact for years you could be somewhat more business minded and actually charge them shameless.

[langsor]

I completely agree with Wige--wonderful advice. I might ad that you might preemptively take a look at the various client sites and see if there are any other updates or improvements that you could now implement, since surely you've learned more about design and technologies since creating some of these sites. At least you can check in and see how it's working for them and if they are still happy with everything.

This is definitely a blessing-opportunity to reconnect with some of your earlier client-base and if you have that attitude they will likely see it that way too and not as something you did wrong in designing their site (if you're worried about that). Browsers, standards, design models, and everything are constantly changing--we all know that it's a moving target--and sites need to be brought up to spec as that spec changes over time. The more complicated or sophisticated the site, the more likely it will need to be revisited over time.

I recently had a similar opportunity with my very fist web client from 10 years ago. You might imagine that their site was pretty out of date. But they told me that they loved it, it was providing revenue for them, their visitors complimented them on it, it had great organic Google rankings for their keywords, and they liked that I had designed it in a manner that allowed them to update their own product-content on it...I was surprised and very happy to hear all that--as you might imagine.

Personally I design my own JavaScript, CSS, DHTML, et.al menus from scratch (love the mental variety of web design) but certainly there's a thousand offerings on the web that will do what you need that are also FREE, and likely forward compatible (as possible)...You might look into some other options if you have the time (?).

Ciao,

langsor

[microtekblue]

Hello, I found this interesting.

Heres my 2 cents about this:

Just tell them their site is now out of date for the new browser technologies. As web developers theres NO way we can make websites for all the technological updates that keep coming, and we are NOT responsible for these problems. (That might sound mean but its the truth).

If I had to redo all the websites I did for customers that I had 5 years ago, then that would cause a lot of problems. It is ultimately the clients problem and issue to keep his own site updated.

And you should definitely charge them full price each for all the updating. Otherwise your going to see clients are gonna be mad every 3 years, and bother you every time when new technologies come out and problems start happening with their site.

It is also best to clearly state this issue on all clients contracts before taking on any projects.

[langsor]

Wow, when I posted my little response above Wige was the only person who had yet written...a flood of responses.

You might also take this moment to consider another business model for these and future clients--have you considered offering a Maintenance Plan for your clients' web sites? Something that would be billed periodically and would encompass basic content updates, and periodic technology updates (but you must be specific and set limits here or you will shoot yourself in the pocketbook).

Just a thought

[webgoddess]

I agree with all the posts. I think it is really important that you do not intimate that this is in any way your fault. I like what the previous poster said, "Just tell them their site is now out of date for the new browser technologies."

I think it would impress the clients that you 1) are aware of how their site is working with the new technologies and 2) that you care enough to keep track of their site, even though you developed it years ago. Unless, of course, you are the host, then you should keep track.

My two cents!

[villageloop]

Interesting.

We are going to most likely face a similar issue with the new release of Firefox 3 and some minor layout issues. While not menu breaking or so severe in nature, it will be the clients responsibility to fix issues on thier website which arise in the future.
Future could be defined with a predetermined time frame... say over a year from launch. For example, You can support your code for up to a year after that, you cannot be responsible for changes beyond your control.

Websites are organic creatures that are ever evolving.

WEBSITES ARE NOT PRINTED BROCHURES!!!
If only people understood this concept.

Even static websites can change because a browser changes.

My bottom line would be, if you implemented these scripts in 2003, I would suggest to your clients to change and update their sites naviation and menu system (be proactive and do not wait for them to contact you) and deliver a price for the service. And in doing so, look for a solution that is more flexible and possibly simplier. I would not split the cost.

If I build drive-thru terminals for banks, and I built one back in 2003 that worked for every vehicle on the road. Now in 2008 Hummer comes out with a new super SUV that can't fit through my drive-thru. Should I go back to the bank and split the cost to make their drive thru larger so that it will fit the new vehicle?

Give a discount if you can afford it or to be competitive.

Good luck.

[incrediblehelp]

Why not fix it for free? How hard could this be really? Plus this would really put some reassurance in your clients that "you are they for them". This contact could open up to new work that the site needs as well.

[myfreeforum]

The scanner on my printer stopped working under Vista. The printer company did not apoligize, and the updated driver patch never worked for me. I had to buy another printer.

All I am saying is, do not spend time feeling guilty. Just tell the clients what you told us, and see if they want you to help them. Unless your clients have been living on another planet, they are used to this sort of thing.

[DaveG]

Stop thinking of you and think about the situation your clients are in and that will automaically bring you more business.

If you don't go there and organise the repairs, they may call you - or they may call someone else in and you've lost 6 good clients...then think about you...

The time frame that has expired is sufficient to be without incumberance as far as the menu's no longer working - as the company who wrote the script have demonstrated- no-one can guarantee compatibility that long.

If you want a cushion - blame the script writers.... and then move on to a good provider like Likno software and AllWebMenusPro.

[subsystems]

I agree with most of the posts. It depends on your personality as to what to do.

Just consider that the mass migration to the Internet was around 10 years ago. Windows didn't even have built-in TCP/IP dial-up support before that. Look at how much things have changed during those 10 years or so! Those sites are 5 years old. You can't expect that something that has been around working stable for so many years would continue to do so forever. The fact that the chosen menu system remained functional for so many years during radical changes occurring all around it is a testament to the decisions made at that time. I would not apologize for do a good job.

I would go 1 step further than others have suggested. I would also download IE8 beta and test the proposed solution with it as well. It would give you a heads up if the problem may reoccur in a short time period. Don't want to look foolish by not being prepared. Most people are not aware that IE8 is due out soon it would show that you are serious about the industry and are a resource they can rely on to keep them out of trouble down the road.

[Tony_V]

I agree with incrediblehelp..... Though it might be tempting to charge, due to the fact that it might take you a little time, everything he mentions is very true... More then likely you will open the doors for new business. Used to be you could do business on a hand shake, now a days you have to write a contract even with family. But every once in a while someone comes along and just touches you right in your heart. I make it a point to do this and it always pays off in the form of money.... giving really does work. Try it.

[cfinlayson]

I can speak as a customer who had a similar situation. The company that built our website 6 years ago built it in a Dealer Locator that relied on a specific part of their server setup. We however have hosted our own website since day one. They decided to shut down that server, as the hardware was old and they couldn't justify giving up the rack space. That's their prerogative, and I don't hold it against them... until my Dealer Locator just stopped working one day.

As the second most popular section of our site, this was a catastrophe. They didn't let me know they were doing it, they didn't offer a solution, they just waited until I found out. By then I was angry, not that our technology is old... that's just life, man, but angry that they didn't offer me a solution, either for free or paid.

Just give me something, and I'll appreciate it.

We ended up having someone else do the work, getting the Dealer Locator running again quickly, for a reasonable cost which we paid happily, and subsequently gave that new company the contract to redesign the site, to the tune of over $30,000.

Based on my experience, I don't believe that this is your fault, nor Microsoft, nor Opencube... it's just the way the world is evolving.

Was it GM's responsibility to go back and retrofit every car they ever made with seatbelts when it became law? Not bloody likely.

Your contract is clear, and it is the nature of the internet to evolve, and the assumption that every browser should support every function they ever have would likely lead to very slow browsers indeed.

Chris Finlayson

[gelcreative]

Hey everyone. You've been a great help. I think, armed with all your advice, I'm going to sort out a new menu system and will approach my clients with the solution. As you all say, it will be a good opportunity to make contact and show that I am proactive. I'd rather speak to them first, then let one of their customers tell them.

One or two clients are long gone ... they don't seem to be interested in moving their site on and maybe this will be an opening to offer assistance with a new look or revamp. Others who I've been in touch with more regularly I may take incrediblehelp's advice and do it for them anyway...

Langsor made a good point about setting up maintenance plans for current and future clients. This has definately been something I have been implementing this year (it was my new year's resolution!).

Thanks again for your help. I'll let you know how the clients received the news in due course!

Jane

[SEO]

I would notify them that it is no longer working and offer them a discounted price if they choose you to fix the problem.

[DanThies]

Your responsibility here sort of depends on when you installed this on clients' sites. If you installed it in 2003, that's one thing. I'd let them know that Microsoft broke the Internet, and offer a reasonable fee to fix their site.

If you installed code that doesn't work in IE7 after Microsoft released the IE7 beta for developers (I think that was in mid-late 2005?), then I'd say you have a little bit more responsibility. OK, a lot more. In fact, I'd say you owe them a quick fix at no charge.

If you could have known it was going to break in IE7, then you should have known that it was going to break. That's your job. In part, being a professional web designer means that you keep up to speed on what's happening with browsers.

[ron angel]

Originally Posted by SEO

I would notify them that it is no longer working and offer them a discounted price if they choose you to fix the problem.

I would find a fix for my own satisfaction to see if it were possible.
I WOULD NOT contact client if the work was done in 2003 It may look like a nice gesture but you could face problems with them demanding a free upgrade. of course if you have been doing work for one or more of them recently then it would be a good idea to contact them. I used to do emergency & other electrical repairs for company's. I found that if you contact them for work they always assume that you need the work (even if this is true) and don't want to pay the full price or whatever.better let them contact you then you can give a quote for the update, for them to except or not explaining the original job was a long time ago. If they have been using other people for their site since 2003 its not your problem.

[Pico_Train]

I would definetely notify them first by email or phone. If you bring it up and fess up that what was working is now broken, because of no fault of your own, most clients will take that well.

On the other hand, if they notice and you don't say anything, they won't like that. Would you want your automobile manufacturer to notify you of a steering problem if they knew about it - answer is yes!

Charge them a small fee per site, a navigation menu is not that hard a fix and you can also see if they want other changes done and get some more work in and re-establish contact in a professional, responsible and proactive manner. Something good will come of your professionalism and proactiveness.

Win win all around. What goes around comes around.

[fwd]

Hello,

I also run a web software company in London, UK. This is the process we would take:

1) Contact Opencube to find out about support for the component in ie7. A quick look at their website seems to suggest a upgrade (QuickMenu 6.0) is available (see: #1 CSS List Menu! (Replace old DHTML menus with Pure CSS.)). Find out what is involved with the upgrade (costs, deployment times etc.)

2) Contact your clients and inform them that this component requires an upgrade. Unless you have an ongoing retainer or SLA (service-level agreement) which covers the upgrade of third-party client-side components, then do not offer a free upgrade. The problem with upgrading for free is that you will set the precedent for future work (your clients may expect you to continue to resolve all ongoing server/client-side issues without charge, which would be detrimental to your business).

3) If their is some tangible benefit to your business - discount the costs as others have suggested. If you haven't got an ongoing retainer or SLA with your clients, then this might be a good opportunity to open a discourse with them on this subject. If a client cannot make investments into their own marketing and sales (as this is effectively the point of their website), then you are not in a position to subsidise their business. Exceptions may be for academic/not-for-profits, but ensure you negotiate something in return (backlinks from their websites, for example).

I hope you find this helpful

Kindest regards

Emma

[milonic]

Hi,

Providing the menus are not too complex, we'll be able to upgrade/replace the Opencube licenses for Milonic licenses for £10 each, we'll even do the upgrades for you. That's better than paying Opencube $150 for EACH website don't you think.

At least that way, for £60, you get all the problems solved, I can't say fairer than that.

-- Andy

[sofakingdabest1]

Charge the client for the work. Tell the clients its Microsoft's fault. Software upgrades happen to all software all the time and clients are forced to pay. Blame it on Bill Gates.

[webmax]

Why did you abandon your clients for 5 long years? If they are good clients, appreciate your hard work, and pay nicely, doesn't it make sense to stay close? And if not, then why go back to them?

[RichAtVNS]

Originally Posted by Silverback

There are certain aspects of business that cry out to be addressed. On the basis that your Terms & Conditions specifically address issues of technology advancements and hold you harmless then I would highly recommend you do the following in this order.

Quickly find an appropriate solution, finding all costs and client benefits.
Contact the involved clients immediately (as Wige states it affords an opportunity for additional contact) and in contacting those impacted clients

1. advise them of the issue; that perhaps they are aware of it;
2. offer them the solution along with the chargeable price.
3. DO NOT apologize for improved advancements in technology or infer a reduced price to correct "the problem". Since it is neither your problem nor your creation, no apology is needed and once you start feeling badly it is a slippery slope to minimizing your profits.
4. Tell the client you can make the corrections to improve the functionality of their website by (DATE) and be sure to stick to it when needed.

I say this from the standpoint of a business owner who deals with IT and other suppliers on a regular basis and lean towards those who are on their toes, with competitive prices and clearly, the expertise to do the CURRENT job effectively and within the time frame that meets my demands.

The Best of luck

I agree totally.
You can not be held resposible for Microsoft changes...

I will point out though the Menu system I wrote in Perl using frames for my VNSInc.com site over 12 years ago still works with browsers and to this day GOOGLE can't handle frames LOL

[kcire]

Originally Posted by webmax

Why did you abandon your clients for 5 long years? If they are good clients, appreciate your hard work, and pay nicely, doesn't it make sense to stay close? And if not, then why go back to them?

This was my first reaction (really!), but then I thought that I wasn't business minded...Which I should be! And gave my next answer, which will be here forever...

Webmax, when you act like this you act like the world is yours..But it isn't...Where did you get this confidence? Why not think of this as a possibility or a problem?

[advancedmerchant]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

Why not fix it for free? How hard could this be really? Plus this would really put some reassurance in your clients that "you are they for them". This contact could open up to new work that the site needs as well.

Nothing in this world is free. What this would do, is implant in the customer's mind that you are responsible (forever) for any more changes that happen on the web to make their sites obsolete. If you do not charge them at least a minimal or discounted fee, you are sending the wrong message. In 2003, IE7 did not exist. What will they expect when Firefox 4 does not work? The same - a free fix? How about IE8, 9, and 10?

By contacting them proactively, you are showing them that you care. By fixing the problem at a reasonable price, you are showing them you are professional.