Need Help Understanding CMS's

[hommealone]

Please help me to understand and compare Content Management Systems (CMS), especially those specifically well suited for website developement. I am most familiar with PHP, and so would like to focus on PHP-based systems (open-source, free-type).

First, is this even the right or best forum for this question? Moderator: please feel free to advise and move this somewhere else if you think that would be better. ;)

I've been starting to learn about CMS's like Drupal, Joomla!, Mambo, XOOPS, and others (ModX; SilverStripe). I've been finding most of their official websites to be less helpful than I'd like - maybe I'm visiting the wrong sites - and hoped you good folks at WPW could help me.

I'd like to understand more about how these things work, how you use them, and especially how they compare to each other.

For example, I haven't been seeing as much as I'd like in terms of screen shots of what their interfaces look like - how do you interact with them (both from the developer and end-user point of view); what options do they give you; how do you choose those options. References to helpful articles, tutorials,and websites that explain them would be a good start. Even links to good meaty and general threads on this topic that have already taken place on WPW will help me. Searching through WPW, I've also found the sites: CMS Watch, OpensourceCMS, and CMS Matrix, which I will also explore - but I really want general advise as much as as I want details.

Do they all work basically the same way, or are there differences, e.g. are they driven by databases? Do they utilize style templating systems? etc., and how do the differences affect their suitability for projects?

In a general sense, what are the major benefits, and disadvantages, of working with CMS's compared to website developement without them?

I believe that a project that I am contemplating calls for using a CMS - I can give you more details about that as this discussion proceeds if you want - but i don't really even know what basis to use in choosing one over another.

I'd especially like to hear people's opinions about how they compare to each other. What are the particular strengths of the different CMS's, and their relative weaknesses? For example, are any particularly versatile for a designer to work with when styling and setting up the initial architecture of the sites? Are some more user-friendly than others for non-developers, not-designers to use in terms of set-up choices and daily interactions of adding and modifying content?

In a small nutshell, my project involves setting up many small, fairly basic, self-manageable (content), "semi-customizable" (styles) websites, for individuals, with a common theme and set of "uses" (e.g., slideshows, etc).

I have lot's of questions, but I think these are probably enough (more than enough?) to get this discussion started. Any explanations and opinions will be an education for me!

Thanks!

[Vectorman211]

A content management system is simply a web application that allows someone with little or no HTML knowledge to add, delete and modify content on a web site. CMSs usually store the content in a MySQL database. It allows for the creation of template files (skins) that are reused all over the entire site. PHPNuke is my favorite CMS, however I don't use it. If you are a PHP developer you should not need to download an out-of-the-box solution. Generally (as with any "turnkey" software) you will get a lot of crap you don't need and hardly any of the features you need. Then it's a matter of figuring out how it all works so you can write a module for it when it would have been faster to write it from scratch.

I wrote my own custom framework that I use for every PHP site I develop. I completely understand how it works and can make changes to it in seconds because... I wrote it.

[twelvestrong]

I find that the major advantage to using a CMS is that you don't have to babysit your site for the rest of it's life. You can literally set it up, hand over the keys and your customer can take care of the details if they need changes at a later date.
They are also ideal if you're aiming for some UGC (User Generated Content) as you can set up many users to help with the content.

I personally love phpwebsite and use it in most of my projects for clients.

It's Open Source and easy to figure out plus has a large community to support it. It's driven by PHP and MySQL and is a lot more customizable in terms of layout and functions then the others I've worked with in the past.

[TrafficProducer]

In a small nutshell, my project involves setting up many small, fairly basic, self-manageable (content), "semi-customizable" (styles) websites, for individuals, with a common theme and set of "uses" (e.g., slideshows, etc).

You may also wish to consider Web 2.0 and maybe AJAX, (or CMS that use this). This may give some future proofing.

I feel your looking for something easier and quicker to set up. Sorry not able to advice about this.

[RegDCP]

Originally Posted by hommealone

Please help me to understand and compare Content Management Systems (CMS), especially those specifically well suited for website developement. I am most familiar with PHP, and so would like to focus on PHP-based systems (open-source, free-type).

I've been starting to learn about CMS's like Drupal, Joomla!, Mambo, XOOPS, and others (ModX; SilverStripe). I've been finding most of their official websites to be less helpful than I'd like - maybe I'm visiting the wrong sites - and hoped you good folks at WPW could help me.

You are barking up my tree here hommealone.
< grin > Love the name, I am sure most of us have felt that way at times.

Most of the official sites you list have not addressed their documentation in a way that is obvious to most of us.
It is the same with my favorite CMS, CRELoaded.

I originally found the OSCommerce CMS and did a site with it, but development time was great, as one has to manually add all the wanted modules, which can run into dozens. Once you get into adding mods to already modified code things can get sticky.

I looked at Joomla & Mambo (Both forks in the OSC path), and then found CRELOaded.
CRE has some 70+ mods added, and if you don't need them, you don't have to use them, but they are there for future expansion.

I'd like to understand more about how these things work, how you use them, and especially how they compare to each other.

For example, I haven't been seeing as much as I'd like in terms of screen shots of what their interfaces look like - how do you interact with them (both from the developer and end-user point of view); what options do they give you; how do you choose those options.

I agree with you and to that end, for CRELOaded, I have a full working demo available. http://dotcom-productions.com/cms/index.php?cPath=71
This will give you the full user experience for the basic 6.2 version in the admin and as a visitor.

I also have a step by step "How to install CRELoaded" page.

References to helpful articles, tutorials,and websites that explain them would be a good start. Even links to good meaty and general threads on this topic that have already taken place on WPW will help me. Searching through WPW, I've also found the sites: CMS Watch, OpensourceCMS, and CMS Matrix, which I will also explore - but I really want general advise as much as as I want details.

Do they all work basically the same way, or are there differences, e.g. are they driven by databases? Do they utilize style templating systems? etc., and how do the differences affect their suitability for projects?

There are limited articles available but if you search for open source CMS reviews you will find some. I found CRELoaded in a Yahoo article that was comparing open source CMS programs with an eye to Affiliate management. (CRE came out top).

Check around, see what CRELoaded sites look like, what they do, how they are laid out and see if you can work in that structure.
Templating is usually done with a combination of tables and CSS.
Some systems offer more stock templates than do others. I have a bunch displayed on www.regcharie.com my “test bed”.

All PHP/MySQL systems are database driven.

There are(Open Source) , CMS systems for whatever you want to do. Some like WordPress are based on content targeted sites with blogs, some are based on the Wiki structure, some are ecommerce, and some are combinations.

In a general sense, what are the major benefits, and disadvantages, of working with CMS's compared to website developement without them?

I have developed in DreamWeaver, FrontPage, NetObjectsFusion and a bunch of others including notepad.
I much prefer to use CRELoaded.
It gives me an excellent, modifiable structure with more benefits, (options), than most sites need.
Time from first install to completed, active store can run from just over 5 hours, to a hundred or more, depending on how much you want to develop the system.
www.love4cakes.com/catalog is under development, (not generally available to the public), and has 7.1 hours into it.

I believe that a project that I am contemplating calls for using a CMS - I can give you more details about that as this discussion proceeds if you want - but i don't really even know what basis to use in choosing one over another.

I'd especially like to hear people's opinions about how they compare to each other. What are the particular strengths of the different CMS's, and their relative weaknesses? For example, are any particularly versatile for a designer to work with when styling and setting up the initial architecture of the sites? Are some more user-friendly than others for non-developers, not-designers to use in terms of set-up choices and daily interactions of adding and modifying content?

I think you will find there are as many opinions as there are CMS.
Everyone has a favorite.
Features vary.

In a small nutshell, my project involves setting up many small, fairly basic, self-manageable (content), "semi-customizable" (styles) websites, for individuals, with a common theme and set of "uses" (e.g., slideshows, etc).

This is what I do and a CMS can be a boon.
I say “can be” as some CMS structures are much more complex than others.
I recently installed BitWeaver for a client and turned him loose on the config.
After he floundered around for a few hours he asked me to take a look.
I did not find it anywhere near intuitive.

I have done my 30th CRELoaded setup and can strongly recommend it.
If you would like to discuss this in more detail, contact me through an instant messenger chat, my details are on http://dotcom-productions.com/cms/contact_us.php

Reg

[ebusiness4all]

You mentioned the OpensourceCMS site and I recommend you use it to get 'hands on' experience of several cms packages before you read too many reviews.

The site has demos of the main open source packages and you can log in as admin and have a play. The system is reset to the default state every 2 hours so you cannot break anything.

I have always found that some hands on administration of these systems quickly builds your awareness of what is good and what is bad much faster than reading reviews and manuals. Once you have a better idea of what you like you can then research in more depth.

[danners02]

we have found www.expressionengine.com to be of a high quality and very robust - there is a free personal edition if you wish to try too.
For the higher end, I would recommend http://www.featurecreep.com/what-we-...ep-sitemanager

[spooky69]

I have compared Drupal and Joomla. Essentially, I found Drupal to be the one for me based upon being able to easily create custom content types, having a more flexible approach to membership levels and access rights for users than Joomla and imo being able to quite easily customise various aspects of the templates and modules. There is a learning curve, but there is also quite good support available, people are quite willing to share code / customisations and there are a good range of modules available to help with most requirements and certain aspects of seo. www.teamsugar.com is a nice example of a site using Drupal, although which system you use will very much depend upon what you want it to do.

My 2 cents.

[hommealone]

Thanks, all, for your postings so far - I'm looking forward to getting even more of them (wink wink, nudge nudge). They've given me a lot more to read and consider, which I really appreciate.

I think you will find there are as many opinions as there are CMS.
Everyone has a favorite.
Features vary.

No amount of opinions are too much for me. I'd like to know what more people's favorites are, and, especially, why!

RegDCP - Thanks for your considered and spot-on-target response. I'm going to read through the links you included, and then I may indeed get back to you with more questions, so watch out!

Chris at WPW - Thanks so much for putting my post in the daily newsletter. I hope we get a raft of responses and helpful info for the many like me who hear about CMS's but don't really know just what they are or if we should be learning and using them.

[pdstein]

I would recommend checking out OpensourceCMS

My company decided to use Joomla more than a year ago as the basis for all the custom websites we develop. Some of the things I like about Joomla are:

• It has a large, very active user base so you can get answers to questions very quickly.
• There are lots of open source and commercial componens available for just about every functionality you would ever want to add to your site.
• Installing, uninstalling, and upgrading componentns and modules is very easy (most of the time)
• There are lots of independent developers, so if we need a custom component or module we can bid it out
• There are several Joomla template developers/clubs. So, we can offer hundreds of templates "off the shelf" or use them as a starting point for a custom template.

[Orion]

If you're developing a smaller type site, I've really been enjoying wordpress with a few mods in it (i.e. image browser to make adding images to the site easier for the end users).

[moredial]

Originally Posted by hommealone

Please help me to understand and compare Content Management Systems (CMS), especially those specifically well suited for website developement. I am most familiar with PHP, and so would like to focus on PHP-based systems (open-source, free-type).

Have a look at Smarty. It is more a layout generating script which sits on top of the rest of your php code and gives you as much control over the what and where of content that you need. It has to sit on the server hosting the site and has a cache for all the dynamic pages so does not hit the server as hard as one of the non-cached CMS offering.