PHPCake: Smart Choice or Hype

[ericjw]

Hi All,

Thanks so much for your great feedback from my last post on screen resolution.

I have been going back and forth with a development team regarding scalability and denormalized databases. We have been having a concurrent user issue with low traffic. After analysis of our code, the company gave me a quote to re-engineer my current site. They suggested that it would be slightly more to re-design the entire site in the 2.0 version at 1024. They took it one step further by saying, "by the way, instead of patching within my present PHP. Your code is practically 4 years old. It is similar to Smarty with inline coding where code and HTML do not separate. It is not documented at all (this is true) We suggest Cake. It would be a smarter alternative. Given that you wil be geographically rubberstamping 18 communities based on the main website, it needs to be solid and clean code. It would almost be more cost-efficient to develop from scratch then it would be to do the whole re-design, strict XHTML and plug in new featureds. In the end, it might cost you more, but it will be more reliable architecture, and other will be able to work collaboratively because it is based on MVC concept."

Although it would cost me less to re-design within the present code, according their estimates, the new code in Cake would be about 800 more.

They did give me the option of working with the present code so they weren't just trying to upsell me. It sounds genuine. I went from a 1500 design upgrade to a new website based on pretty valid arguments, partial reason, partial fear. Got to love this business!

Anyway, I know there are hundreds of different PHP frameworks out there, but is there some validity to what these developers are telling me. I want to grow on a strong platform in PHP... Any thoughts?

Thanks for the insight! I curious to see what ya'll think.

[bj]

Personally I'm not familiar with the package they're pushing, but my feeling is that new code has to be more secure than code that was written 4 years ago.

And if the new package allows xhtml/css accessible code, then with new backend AND frontend, you'll probably get quite a performance boost, which may actually end up improving your conversions.

If you're going to spend the dough anyway, you may as well do it right. The upside is if it does allow clean templating and separates out different sorts of logic (appearance from html from backend functions) then future upgrades on the new platform should be much simpler and less costly, so it's extra dough spent now that'll save you a fair bit in the future.

[Dinghus]

Being a developer I can tell you that your code needs to be totally overhauled about every 2 years. So yours is way overdue. HOWEVER. This CAKE sounds too new to go for.
It sounds like (and I don't really know) a framework. These can be good or bad but if you are going to use one, make sure it is one that has been around for awhile so there are people who know how to change things if needed.

You will be stuck with whatever you get here for a couple of years at least and you may never see the developers again. So get a solid framework in a solid language so you can get help later if needed.

[blazingbiz]

I've heard of PhpCake before but in reading your questions I had a reason to go look at it and I'm reading up on it now. As far as open source projects go, it looks pretty solid and well supported.

My concern in what you brought up in your post is your approach to this. You seem to be following the most often used mindset in web based business work of plug in some code and go. That doesn't really work in the long term, you should be modeling your business from a business stand point not a technology standpoint. Businesses need to be developed as businesses, the technology are the tools you use. To compare it to building a house, you plan out the architecture then you get the best materials and tools for the job based on that, not the other way around.

What was most noticable to me in your post is that you wrote about shelling out $1K + and never touched upon your business model, what your web venture was all about, what your objectives are, etc - you just centered around the technology as if that was the primary reason for what you were doing and paying for.

My point is that the right technology all depends on what you want to accomplish. Really, that decides everything. Way too often people get sold on this technology versus that technology, and what gets missed is that too much emphasis is placed on technology for technology's sake. Then the almost surefire follow up question to this phenomenon is asking other people: "Is this technology right for me?" which is what you're asking here.

I come across this so often when I consult people on e-Business, and my response to them is that your approaching the whole thing incorrectly. Given the line of reasoning you presented, I would advise that you approach your web business from a business stand point and make it have business sense only. Once that is set, the right technology is obvious. If you do it the other way around, you'll do what most web based workers do and that is chase your tail round and round based on what flavor of the month technology someone your consulting with happens to be evangelizing when you hired them.

In other words, the main focus of a consulting should be what is your business, what does it need to do by when, and how do we do it. If a consultant is preaching a technology more than focusing on this, then that's a red flag. You don't need "Gee, whiz this is cool geeky stuff and my tech friends like it .." you need business minded decision making and consulting.

I'm not saying these consultants are or are not doing this, I'm just saying this is the standard by which e-business consultants are measured and only you know what they told you. I'm reading the manual on PhpCake it looks solid, but is it what you need is the real question, that can only be known through your business analysis. Your technology focused question is a red flag to me that you're not focusing on the business as much as you should.

This is just what I gathered from your post, you can fill in more about your entire situation to balance out what I wrote, if you like.

The last point I want to make is this illustration, if a simple one page html with some keywords and marketing meets your business goals, then that's the right technology for you. It doesn't matter what some techies think is "cool, or gee whiz" - you're either running a business or spending money on a hobby site. If you're running a business, then business fundementals need to be running the show and technology gets in line with that.