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Old 02-05-2005, 01:15 AM
red red is offline
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Default Client side - what to do if you get burned by a programmer?

**This is a long post by necessity. Please take the time to read it.

Let me preface this post by saying that I am not a designer nor a programmer. I am stuck in a bad situation and looking for some suggestions from forum members.

I have 2 ecommerce websites. The first has been live for 2 years now. The designer that did the initial build made it work but that was all. The coding is a mess. The pages do not validate...and the list goes on. As soon as he was paid he disappeared and became "unreachable". There was no scope creep, no unforseen issues on my (the client's) part. I paid within 24 hours of each invoice. Because the site is a Miva site I had a very difficult time finding anyone that could fix the errors.

I was fortunate to find a programmer right here at WPW that was willing to take on the challenge. **I'd rather not give a name though everyone here knows him. I do not want to tarnish his reputation.
Even though he didn't know Miva he decided to jump in and learn it so he could work on the project and possibly build a side business down the road building out new Miva sites.

I knew from the beginning that because of the learning curve it would take him much longer to accomplish tasks because he was unfamiliar with Mivascript. We agreed that he would charge for actual work done and not for the time it took him to learn. He has helped me with any number of small items unrelated to the original site but it took him 3 months to get a menu installed and working on the site. A few hours after it was up it had to be taken down as there were some really big problems.
I've been very patient but up front about exactly what was needed and when; this menu was at the very top of the list.
Foolishly we never had a contract. I'd asked for one in the past but it never materialized. I asked him to keep track of his time but he never did. Every so often I'd ask him "how much do I owe you?" he'd give me a number and I'd drop it in the mail (he was always very fair)

In the end its worked out fine for over 9 months now.
We speak several times a week and keep in touch by email. I've never met him as I'm in the US and he is in Canada. Last week (the day the new menu blew up)
I had to go out of town for a week. I called him to let him know. I get back and receive a cryptic email message: "we have to talk" so I phoned him as soon as my coat was hung up.

***The problem - I've tried to reach him for 6 days now. No return phone calls, no email...no reply. Period. I thought he was lying dead in a ditch somewhere and was frantic to find out how he was, where he was. He has no family that lives in the area, no close friends in the area that I am aware of. I can't find him nor reach him anywhere.
I was about to book a flight to Canada because I feared the worst - I'm dead serious.

As a last resort I visited a forum he is a moderator of so I can ask about him and to my shock and surprise he's been posting there all week long. It would seem that he just (out of nowhere) has decided to ignore me. This is highly unusual and we've had no problems prior to this.
He is (apparently), alive and well.

I, on the other hand, am up the creek without a paddle. Most of the work he started is in progress; none of it completed so it can be used.
What is the CLIENT supposed to do when this happens?
I read all the horror stories about programmers being burned. Here is a reverse situation.
This is a terrible situation and I am really angry and upset that he turned out to be just like the first programmer. I'm also really scared about the site remaining in it's current state.

I guess I also feel really foolish for thinking, after all this time, that we were friends.
That's a mistake I won't make again.
What would you all suggest I do differently before I ask for help the next time around...which is looking like Monday. I know (now) never to work without a contract but what other suggestions might you have?
Thanks for taking the time to read this post.
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Old 02-05-2005, 02:16 PM
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If you are using a pay as you go arrangment on a large project, a hold back would be in order. Say 20% with half being paid on completion and the other half when the bugs are all fixed.
This kind of arrangment is used in the home building all the time.

A hold back would give the programer motivation to complete the project and then fix all the bugs or the funds to hire some one else to finish it.
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Old 02-11-2005, 11:09 AM
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First - change all your passwords.

Now - how did you pay him - paypal, credit card, etc? You might request a chargeback if not too much time has expired. This will get his attention. (I know - we went thru this a few times until we finally just hired our own team.)
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Old 02-16-2005, 06:56 PM
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ouch, red

sorry to hear about your troubles
.. unfortunately, it can happen to the best of us
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Old 02-16-2005, 11:22 PM
red red is offline
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Default Client side - what to do if you get burned by a programmer?

Mushroom and Corey,
Sorry it's taken so long to reply back. Thanks for your advice. I was paying by money order and not credit card on a pay as you go basis.
He left 3 unfinished projects up in the air - not big huge ones but enough to really tee me off and screw me up for a while.
He knew when the last money order had been mailed and ditched me right as he received it. Nice, huh?
That's really professional from someone that bills himself as a programmer.
I have just entered a rock solid contract with a programmer who can actually fix all of the loose ends my "friend" left me and who doesn't have all of the personal problems that I've be so fortunate to have run into with the last 2 nuts.
Enough said...
Thanks for letting me vent and for your replies - Cyanide, I'll be in touch.
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Old 02-17-2005, 05:09 AM
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Glynn, I would also add another small point. I know this probably seems painfully obvious in hindsight / 'after the event'. If you're looking for someone to perform a specific task particularly when it involves proprietary software (such as a Miva shopping cart), you need to ensure the programmer has the necessary experience before making the decision to hire.

No matter how good a 'friend' the person may be, if they can't do the job, it's not fair on either side.

Good luck with your current guy!

Paul
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Old 02-17-2005, 01:13 PM
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I'm sorry for your unfortunate experience.

Best wishes with your new programmer. :)

Teresa
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Old 02-17-2005, 01:43 PM
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At least everything seems to be working out. And actually consider yourself somewhat lucky, it seems you have the source code (which is more than some people actually do get).
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