what is Future PHP or .NET

[maven]

hi all,

i am a bit confused about the real job market and future of these 2 languages after searching a lot on web i am not able to know what exactly is the future technology for web.

- PHP is opensource but not powerful like .NET

- .NET is powerful but desnot has free features like
PHP
- it is said that all the corporate websites are being built in .NET and thats the best for large scale application / BUT Yahoo is on PHP

- PHP is not that structure and OO like .net

- .net is not opensource or cheap like PHP

and also MONO project www.go-mono.com is coming up to provide an Opensource implementation of .NET

NOW WHAT ??? after all these pros and cons i would like to take ur views

[M0rtym0use]

Personally as an ASP developer .NET is a much more logical route than PHP.
At the moment i am in the process of implementing c#.net in my projects as in my opinion on ms hosted machines this is the way forward.

if you think back to the early days of programming there was no oo approach taken then over time oo languages such as java have been developed and are "the way forward" according to the industry experts...

to be honest though as long as php evolves to keep up with .net then the 2 will probably be around for a long long time just as MS and UNIX based systems have and will.

of course this is all just my humble opinion

MM

[CharleneH]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. I have been using C# .net for almost 2 years and like it more all the time. Components that I build for one project easily migrate to other projects. Prior to asp.net I build applications in ASP so the move to .net was a no brainer.
If you are familiar with a set of tools, stay with them as long as you can.

[synergytheory]

PHP all the way.

You have unlimited free resources in the open source community, PHP does anything .NET does [but 10X quicker and easier IMO], PHP in generally run on linux, which is more secure, PHP intergrates seamlessly with mySQL, PHP is free. I could go on forever.

[hottap]

I'm with you all the way, synergytheory.
There is much more of a community for PHP development, where, because of costs, .NET is kind of limited to closed corporate users.

[maven]

i recently got a link : www.go-mono.com,

which will make the .net implementaion on opensource O.S.

after that what ???? if .net will be avaliable as opensource
where will PHP go.

all the best will be on MONO

plz chaeck out above link and Comment !

[HardCoded]

Since I for one am not convinced that .NET can do anything PHP can't do, I imagine the current (very large) base of PHP coders will be happy right where they are. Because

If you are familiar with a set of tools, stay with them as long as you can.

Nonetheless the mono project is certainly interesting. We'll need to see some benchmarks before we'll really care.

[ECommerceConversions]

I gotta go with ASP.NET. I've come to love the platform, it's OO interface, and the fact that it isn't like a sleezy java interpreter, but more like a translator.

Oh and they are working on .NET for linux platforms, and it's free (I believe).

What's also every so awesome about .NET (from the windows side) is you can write C# code, and if you need to, use DLL exports to do anything in the windows environment. (But I don't know the PHP side of the whole thing).

As for cost..... It costs money to make money. Plain and simple. That's why Microsoft has gotta charge, and that's why people gotta pay.

Plus, .NET runtime is distributed with Windows. Well, I guess you could say they did the same with VB back in the day.

Plus, .NET has made a step forward in terms of authentication and security, providing login access and roles at the machine level. It wraps itself right around the Windows Authentication system itself (although you don't have to do it that way). I'm guessing the PHP side COULD be working with logins and stuff for *nix's. Don't really know.

I guess I just have grown to love .NET. It's a lot more nicer than MFC

[HardCoded]

Yes, PHP can hook right into the standard http authentication mechanism. Or you can roll your own from a database of user/passes. Or both. Or with PHP you can hook into an LDAP server, or if you're really stuck, a plain text file.

.NET is great too, don't get me wrong. But if you don't have to pay for stuff, why pay for stuff?

[farzan]

Originally Posted by maven

hi all,
- PHP is opensource but not powerful like .NET
- .NET is powerful but desnot has free features like
PHP

What is your definition for Powerful?

- it is said that all the corporate websites are being built in .NET and thats the best for large scale application / BUT Yahoo is on PHP

- As far as I know, Yahoo uses JSP

- PHP is not that structure and OO like .net

Yes, You are right. But that is about version 4 of PHP. PHP 5 has too many extra features. Like complete and standard(?) OO and Exception handling.

- .net is not opensource or cheap like PHP

:D Thats what I like about PHP

and also MONO project www.go-mono.com is coming up to provide an

implementation of .NET

And would it be platform independent? You know, I am a Linux lover.

NOW WHAT ??? after all these pros and cons i would like to take ur views

I think I stick to PHP; after all I am sort of experienced in it.

[voodooboy]

This is actually a loaded question. The answer is both. .NET is popular among a lot of programmers because it is strictly Microsoft based, and 80% of the large corporate population is Microsoft based. Thus, .NET programmers are in high demand to keep pace with Microsoft technology. This is also based on the fact that 5 years ago, ASP was the only real option for dynamic processing. Even if an open source version of .NET comes out, it will still be primarily Microsoft dependent.

Now you actually have three major players; .NET, PHP and Cold Fusion. While Cold Fusion is popular, it is not really a standard, and costs money. While ASP.NET costs money as well, most companies would much rather curb their investment and stay with Microsoft as that is where their foundation is based and the investment in changing an entire company would not be cost effective.

.PHP is extremely popular. One, because it is Open Source (free) and two, because it can be implemented on any server format (where .NET is limited to Microsoft servers). You will begin see the trend shift. PHP will become more popular with newer growing companies while the dinosaurs are dependent on Microsoft. You also see that 97% of all leased server space is UNIX based. This lends to the PHP/MySQL programming unit and increases the value of knowing PHP.

When it comes down to what you want to learn, while they are similar and you can easily move between each other without much difficulty, you have to ask what industry are you looking to work in? Large companies with a long history or newer companies with a certain amount of capital risk? If you enjoy the risk, then go with PHP as it is growing and as Microsoft continues to dig their hole, open source will continue to grow in strength.

I wish you the best of luck.

[techboy]

I use PHP because I run on linux. From my experience with MS languages is that next year there's a new way of doing things and your code is obsolete or has to be heavily modified to be recompiled on a new version. Any code written for PHP 3 works in PHP 5. I don't think MS can say this about ASP to .NET

Just my take, don't stake me for it ;)

[JayDrake]

I'm with ghstdrgns on this one as far as the longevity of both .NET and php. Both have definite advantages and both have their own holds on the market.

That said, if I were beginning to learn web design and development right now and was trying to figure out which one to learn in pursuing a career I would choose .NET. I am a php developer and have been working for just over 3 1/2 years for PlanHouse in Jackson, Mississippi. I am happy doing what I do and would, given a choice, continue to work with PHP. Because of romantic involvements, I am currently seeking new employment in the New England area and I have quickly realized that while my preference is for PHP, most of the web development/application/programming jobs that I am able to find are either .NET or Java.

As .NET and Java currently seem to have a good hold on the web development world as far as those who are hiring in the area I want to live, I have started to work on gaining proficiency in both. In my case, I am more strongly pursuing work with Java because I have some interest in eventually working as a programmer, with the option of going back to web development when necessary.

PHP or .NET? .NET is paying right now, but so is Java and my current thoughts are that Java will give you more options than web development.

[tviman]

What's also every so awesome about .NET (from the windows side) is you can write C# code, and if you need to, use DLL exports to do anything in the windows environment.

I can see nothing but a propagation of the security problems that have plagued Microsoft. I have been able to talk all of my clients into moving to *NIX hosting platforms that use apache server software. Since then, NOT ONE has been plagued with down time due to the exploitation of IIS security holes. Allowing DLL exports in a web application to interact with the users Windows OS is just asking for more trouble than Microsoft can handle.

In case you can't tell, I'm no fan of Windows hosting platforms, and especially IIS server software.

[mojojojo]

This is always a difficult discussion to have. I know very few people that are proficient in php and .net and therefore have any authority to compare them.

Here in NZ, most Ford drivers argue that they are "better" than Holdens. However, they have probably never driven a Holden.

My point? People get attached to what they know. I am a PHP programmer and I love it. I tend to argue that it is the best language simply on principle - I am defending my decision to use it. Therefore I will always argue that my decision was the right one.

From my observations, proficient programmers will always get the results they need, regardless of the platform they use. The rest is down to personal preferrence.

[Blackicicle]

Allowing DLL exports in a web application to interact with the users Windows OS is just asking for more trouble than Microsoft can handle.

You beat me to it...

[GiftsForYouBiz]

Originally Posted by ghstdrgns

Now you actually have three major players; .NET, PHP and Cold Fusion.

Don't forget Java... and JSP... and ...

Originally Posted by ghstdrgns

When it comes down to what you want to learn, while they are similar and you can easily move between each other without much difficulty, you have to ask what industry are you looking to work in?

That's the real question; what industry do you want to be in? As for the language, anything you learn is an investment, and whether you get the job or not has as much to do with how well your resume is prepared, did you wear the right clothes, answer questions correctly, and are you someone's nephew or niece. Which language? Which country should I live in? Do I want to work with a large company, a smaller one, or do contract work and make some big bucks (at which point you can have "any" language and find some work, but the rainy seasons are much longer).

Originally Posted by mojojojo

From my observations, proficient programmers will always get the results they need, regardless of the platform they use. The rest is down to personal preferrence.

Well put, excepting the personal preference part ... did any of us learn our language based on personal preference, or were our preferences acquired along the way? Who was predisposed to learning a language based on personal preference, if you've never had any experience to judge it with?

I've worked with ASP for about 3 years, PHP for about 2, Javascript, VB, VBscript, Autolisp (for AutoCAD), have done some Actionscript and even some of Adobe's proprietary Javascript. I dabbled enough in ASP.net to know I can't afford it (and neither can my department at this point), and have dabbled in Java enough to know that I like the language, and I could (and probably will) continue to learn it, but for now, I can't stand the startup (load) time it takes for the computer to translate/interpret the code.

Aside from those points, ASP.net now has a stigma because of the instability that I found with ASP. My overall feeling is that I can communicate with and feel much more comfortable with PHP. I do believe you can get the same jobs done, and yet, for me, it's easier to do so with PHP. Unless I wanted to fork over some more money for training or videos or such to learn the new ASP.net concepts. PHP took me about 2 books and 2 web sites (http://php.net and http://phpbuilder.com) - 4 if you count http://www.mysql.com and http://groups.google.com

At this point in my life, I will continue to further my knowledge of PHP (and MySQL). I'll certainly be looking into the Mono Project too, but it will be in addition to my current skill sets, not in place of. And Java will always be in my scope as well.

Bottom line ... learn whatever you can get your hands on !!! Tomorrow they'll want TCL (http://tcl.sourceforge.net/)

[cooper]

Originally Posted by JayDrake

I'm with ghstdrgns on this one as far as the longevity of both .NET and php. Both have definite advantages and both have their own holds on the market.

I agree.

Originally Posted by JayDrake

That said, if I were beginning to learn web design and development right now and was trying to figure out which one to learn in pursuing a career I would choose .NET. I am a php developer and have been working for just over 3 1/2 years for PlanHouse in Jackson, Mississippi. I am happy doing what I do and would, given a choice, continue to work with PHP. Because of romantic involvements, I am currently seeking new employment in the New England area and I have quickly realized that while my preference is for PHP, most of the web development/application/programming jobs that I am able to find are either .NET or Java.

Keep the faith brother. Don't switch to the dark side. ;o) hahaha
Seriously though, just hang in there. PHP jobs do come along. I think it's a testimony about the PHP development community. As a whole we develop code that has staying power and as developers we tend to stay in a good situation. Right now there is a big push to migrate to .NET from classic ASP. And as ghstdrgns said, the companies that are completely Microsoft-based are updating/creating new functionality to tie-in with what the have and know. A lot of those companies can't afford to switch, or perhaps mroe appropriately, are too scared. They fear that the switch to comething like PHP/Linux will not have the short-term benefits they all want. Whereas the small companies that don't have a lot of money to spend on instituting a Microsoft only business will use the relatively "free" open source solutions like PHP and Linux. I look forward to the future of PHP and hope to have (or work for) a company that has little to no reliance upon Microsoft. Their software (operating systems and office apps) is too buggy and has inherently flawed security, as stated previously.

Originally Posted by JayDrake

As .NET and Java currently seem to have a good hold on the web development world as far as those who are hiring in the area I want to live, I have started to work on gaining proficiency in both. In my case, I am more strongly pursuing work with Java because I have some interest in eventually working as a programmer, with the option of going back to web development when necessary.

PHP or .NET? .NET is paying right now, but so is Java and my current thoughts are that Java will give you more options than web development.

This is mostly due to marketing. Who markets PHP to the masses? No one except the evangelists that use it now. I know because I am one. Who markets .NET? A monopolistic mega corporation that has every reason to want their software on every computer in the world. Who markets Java? Well I haven't seen much from Sun lately, but they certainly got the word out a while back and now we have all these web sites run by JSP or the like. ColdFusion, or as I like to affectionately call it, ColdConfusion, is now owned by Macromedia after they purchased it (or maybe it was the whole company) from Allaire. ColdFusion is rarely implemented well. I haven't seen many sites that use it properly (no major errors, impossibly slow load times, poor efficiency, etc.) and those that do are dwindling in numbers it seems. Maybe Macromedia can save this resource, or maybe they will let it die. Somehow I doubt they will let it die.


What I think it comes down to is this: If you are a do-it-yourselfer, go with PHP. The benefits are too numerous to relist here. Everyone else has done a decent job outlining the major reasons to go with PHP.
However, if your company is willing to put you through (pay for) learning .NET, I say go for it. It's a much more close-minded approach to go with anything Microsoft. It's in their corporate philosophy.
I don't really have an opinion on JSP as I don't knwo enough about it.
Stay away from ColdFusion unless you are a masochistic programmer and have some time to kill. I suppose it could be a good thing to know if you ever have to deal with a web site coded with CF.

Good luck and have fun!

[mushroom]

PHP is both opensource and cross platform this makes it better in the long run.

Bugs can be found faster and improvements can be made and distributed easlily and freely because of it's opernsource nature.

Can be moved between OS's with no script modification, you have to like that.

It's all most will ever need and it's FREE.

[savvymedias]

I don't see why there wasn't an option for both; however, with more and more applications coming out, and Microsoft wrapping them in (for example FrontPage has several components for auto installations of databases) and the natural progression from ASP to .net, I would think that the vast amount of sole proprietors will be using something similar to .Net while the new breed of professionals is going to like PHP, apache, linux, etc.

I started computer programming when I was 7 with BASIC, LOGO and PASCAL and I grew up with Microsoft, hence my personal preference for the ease of ASP and all things MS. As a web designer and small business owner, though, I use both for their various applications and PHP does play well with ASP if hosted with the right company.

Why must we choose? ;)