Can search engine spiders follow our links?

Steven1976a · #1 (**permalink**) 03-15-2007, 08:47 AM

Our site is still under construction but please take a look at www.body--jewelry.com . I ran a test through IBP and the side menu bar and the pictures with links were not showing. Is there a problem with the links especially the left menu bar links?

If so what is needed to be done?

thanks
steve

ctabuk · #2 (**permalink**) 03-15-2007, 09:52 AM

Other SEO's may or may not agree with me. But the -- is in my book a no no - also whereas some people say that meta keywords are not required I think that you should add them. It is indexed - about the only time the greenline pagerank is a guide.

kgun · #3 (**permalink**) 03-15-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctabuk

Other SEO's may or may not agree with me. But the -- is in my book a no no - also whereas some people say that meta keywords are not required I think that you should add them. It is indexed - about the only time the greenline pagerank is a guide.

Think I agree to that. A few additional remarks:

There is an error on the site. The Skype link is broken.
- or -- name structure in the domain name may be considered spam by the most conservative webmasters. I have it - in my own sites, but that is not an ecommerce site.
Why do you not use the title tag, <title></title>, one of the best identifiers in addition to the domain name for the Bots.
To answer the subject in the title directly, you load links in JavaScript functions. Why? Most if not all SE Bots do not read JS?
Why not concentrate on http://www.bodyjewelryshopping.com/ and make that site better and more known.
Alternatively you can redirect it to the above site, but again that may be considered as spam.
Your site is not completed:
Link 2

Link 3

Email Alerts

May bew you should submit it for review.

I will recommend the following WPW thread:
CSS Destroyed My Rankings

There is much to learn in that thread.

Steven1976a · #4 (**permalink**) 03-15-2007, 09:48 PM

thanks guys for the answers. Eventually we will be looking to use this site on our www.bodyjewelryshopping.com domain but as the site is database driven and we have not worked with this type of site before we didnt want to jump straight into the deep end and risk loosing our rankings bodyjewelryshopping has. So we wanted to run the site on a second domain we have to test the waters so to say.

Im going to look through the CSS link you gave me. I can see that the links under the 9 pictures are javascript links but i wasnt sure if the left menu bar are javascript?

Thanks

Steven1976a · #5 (**permalink**) 03-16-2007, 07:07 AM

Khun kgun,
In reply to your questions please see below. I thought the problem with the links would be the javascript links. Is there a particular reason why our webmaster would use these styles of links? Are javascript links needed for asp or dynamic sites? If not what would be the easy solution for me to approach him about this and what he should use??

See other answers below.

"There is an error on the site. The Skype link is broken."

Thanks for pointing it out we will get it fixed

"- or -- name structure in the domain name may be considered spam by the most conservative webmasters. I have it - in my own sites, but that is not an ecommerce site."

Its a domain we took about 3 years ago. I wouldnt take it now but whilst we are developing and trying the site we are going to sit it on this domain so that we can improve from trial and error before we change to our main company domain.

"Why do you not use the title tag, <title></title>, one of the best identifiers in addition to the domain name for the Bots."

This and the meta tags will be in once finalised.

"To answer the subject in the title directly, you load links in JavaScript functions. Why? Most if not all SE Bots do not read JS?"

This is what i thought it would be but not being a programmer myself I dont know why it has been used or what I should be asking for from our programmer. Will it be a big change to change these links to non java script links. Can they be changed as they are drawn from our database?

"Why not concentrate on http://www.bodyjewelryshopping.com/ and make that site better and more known."

Just whilst we are developing and testing. Dont want to jump straight in and get our feet burnt if it doesnt work.

Alternatively you can redirect it to the above site, but again that may be considered as spam.

Your site is not completed:
Link 2

Link 3

Email Alerts

May bew you should submit it for review.

Still bits to finish. I was just concerned about the links and why the bots arent recognising them.

kgun · #6 (**permalink**) 03-16-2007, 10:54 AM

Tell your webmasters to use standard links and style them with CSS.

Example:
Load the page in the second link in my signature and look at the source (View + Source in IE). Then you will see how the spiders see the links.

There is no JavaScript there and the links are styled with an external style sheet. Use site-wide stylesheets if you can. Then, if you want to change the look and feel of your site, you change it once in the site-wide stylesheet.

incrediblehelp · #7 (**permalink**) 03-17-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctabuk

Other SEO's may or may not agree with me. But the -- is in my book a no no.

I agree as well. Actually I steer away from all dashes now.

Webnauts · #8 (**permalink**) 03-17-2007, 08:03 PM

Under construction? With Frontpage? Hmmm...

Well, you better test your page with Lynx, so you can see if something is wrong with your links, and what search engines can really read.

Overall, it looks like you have a big mess overall:

1. It seems like you are using heading elements, but they are for sure not used properly. This usually occurs when header elements are used out of order. Using header elements properly is very important, as search engines use header elements to determine the context and purpose of your page. Headers provide semantic structure and meaning to pages, and search engines, for example Google, give preferential treatment to web design that use headers properly.

2. You do not use tables properly.

3. You use inline style sheets. You better make them external.

4. You are using irrelevant meta tags. Do you want to slow down your pages loading time?

Just my two cents Steve. :)

Steven1976a · #9 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 04:37 AM

Hi Webnaughts,

"1. It seems like you are using header elements"

When you say header elements what do you mean by heading elements?

2. I was under the impression that the site is made without tables.

3. You use inline style sheets. You better make them external.
Again I thought we were using external style sheets but i will check with our designer. Are there instances that both external and internal style sheets would be used in a website? Do inline style sheets just change specific styles on a page rather than a style running throughout the site which would need to be updated on every page?

4. You are using irrelevant meta tags. Do you want to slow down your pages loading time?
Thanks we will be cleaning these up.

steve

Steven1976a · #10 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 09:26 AM

Khun kgun said

"Tell your webmasters to use standard links and style them with CSS."

We wanted to have the hover over so that when someone hovers over a catagory the cell changes to the faded hover over you will see. We obviously want standard links but is it possible to have both so the cell will be a link and still appear as it does now and at the same time the text will also be a link but seperate from the cell link?

Webnauts · #11 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven1976a

"1. It seems like you are using header elements"

When you say header elements what do you mean by header elements?

<h1>,<h2>,<h3>,<h4>,<h5>,<h6>
More about: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven1976a

2. I was under the impression that the site is made without tables.

Is that a joke? LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven1976a

3. You use inline style sheets. You better make them external.
Again I thought we were using external style sheets but i will check with our designer.

What? I you site build by a designer? I guess you mean a friend of yours who is learning HTML, or?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven1976a

4. You are using irrelevant meta tags. Do you want to slow down your pages loading time?
Thanks we will be cleaning these up.

Good idea.

By the way, I would like to add here, that when I began learning HTML in the Academy, the first thing I had to learn was "Doctypes". Where did your designer learn web design?

By the way, did you see your page with the browser Firefox?

And my last question is: Do web designers still design web sites with Frontpage? LOL

Webnauts · #12 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 02:41 PM

Oh Gosh, I messed things up. I was testing the page in your sig. Now I got it. But I will do a review for that too.

Coming within the next hour.

Webnauts · #13 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 03:00 PM

I checked the index page and I have found the following:

1. You designer does use headings, but not properly: <h1>,<h2>,<h3>,<h4>,<h5>,<h6>
And that in concerns of the HTML semantical structure and also in concerns of SEO.

2. Your designer is using tables.

3. Your designer is not only using redudant meta tags, but he is spamming them.

4. Your designer have not encoded the ampersand characters properly

5. Your designer have abused the use of alt attributes, and not implemented correctly. Looks to me like that is a work of an old fashion search engine spammer.

6. Your designer implemented deprecated elements and attributes.

7. Your designer does not use for the page images the appropriate attributes to result a faster and smoother (less jumpy) rendering.

8. I did understand what is the index page about, since it is not consistent in terms of usability. Two different layouts. Why don't you use an own shop like Cube Cart or so? Do you have full access over the code in your shop? If you do, I can go on reviewing the shop page.

After all, if your designer is a professional, he will understand my technical tips.

Good luck Steve. :)

John

kgun · #14 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven1976a

We wanted to have the hover over so that when someone hovers over a catagory the cell changes to the faded hover over you will see.

No problem doing that with CSS. Se how it is done on my site I pointed to.

Your designer should have no problem finding my CSS style sheet. You decide on the colours you want to use.

Your primary site starts like this:

<html>

<head>
<title>Body Jewelry shopping, wholesale fashion jewelry, body jewellery, costume jewellery factory Bangkok Thailand</title>

It should have doctype at the top with no blank line, since that may be parsed wrongly by some browsers.

XHTML is eXtended HTML and has nothing to do with XML, aside from using the same method to be valid. Preferrably use XHTML strict if it is possible. It may be simplest to think of XHTML as a standard for HTML markup tags that follow the well-formedness rules of XML, propely nested closed tags, attributs in quotes and lowecase letters etc.

Let your designer start here and start by reading about correct doctype and wellstyling.

XML powered sites will be more important tomorrow. The sooner you get used to XML and XHTML validation, the better IMO.

Webnauts · #15 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 05:42 PM

Steve, here you can check an mess found on your new site: http://nikitathespider.com/reports/paAaRT4z6/

Webnauts · #16 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgun

Your primary site starts like this:

<html>

<head>
<title>Body Jewelry shopping, wholesale fashion jewelry, body jewellery, costume jewellery factory Bangkok Thailand</title>

It should have doctype at the top with no blank line, since that may be parsed wrongly by some browsers.

XHTML is eXtended HTML and has nothing to do with XML, aside from using the same method to be valid.

Kgun you can be sure that I noticed that the doctype was missing, but I did not mention, as it is obvious that the first thing a designer learns, is using the doctype.

Steve said that the guy is a designer man, and not an amateur. :)

kgun · #17 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webnauts

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven1976a

2. I was under the impression that the site is made without tables.

Is that a joke? LOL

John, and the first thing I noted was that tables were used :-)

Steven1976a · #18 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 09:59 PM

Hi Webnaughts and Kgun.
Thanks for all the input, I will print out the thread and give it to the designer to look at and hopefully we can get a few things fixed.
steve

Steven1976a · #19 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 10:01 PM

Webnaughts,
I followed the link http://nikitathespider.com/reports/paAaRT4z6/ but its not referencing our site. I just wanted to check if you have been at the correct url www.body--jewelry.com

Steven1976a · #20 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 10:04 PM

I did try to go to the home page http://nikitathespider.com and run a test but im still having problems with the links. All the links down the left side of the page such as "Start a Crawl",What is this? They dont seem to work.

Webnauts · #21 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven1976a

Webnaughts,
I followed the link http://nikitathespider.com/reports/paAaRT4z6/ but its not referencing our site. I just wanted to check if you have been at the correct url www.body--jewelry.com

Gosh, what the hell is that for a URL Steve? Is that a joke?

Webnauts · #22 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 11:05 PM

OK Steve. Now I am finally checking the right url after all. Sorry for that buddy. But that was a huge waste of time. Anyway.

1. You page has 121 markup errors and 45 other issues. Is your designer a beginner? Don't tell me that the site is under construction. That is not an excuse. ;)
2. Headings are not properly implemented.
3. You are using tables which totally suck. Conflict between cells and rows. Also <tr> and <td> elements are implemented wrong. Nesting problems. Alarm for Search Engines crawlers.
4. You are using for endless of elements attributes with invalid values.
5. There are also special characters that have not been encoded.
6. You also have broken links.

Oh, and by the way did you see your site with the browser Firefox?

By the way, if you have problems with running Nikita, it must be because of the endless errors of your page. The crawler has problems with that. Some times Search Engines too.

Anyway, I think we went far away from the topic, as this is not the site reviews forums.

I guess after all, you will need to assign a company for cleaning up the work of your designer, and to fix all the mess also in terms of SEO.

Good luck buddy.

John

Webnauts · #23 (**permalink**) 03-18-2007, 11:08 PM

Back to the topic you started. And here the thread should end if anyone else does not agree with me.

Search Engines cannot read JavaScript. Therefore they cannot follow the links of your navigation.

I am sure your designer can provide you with another alternative.

Steven1976a · #24 (**permalink**) 03-19-2007, 11:45 AM

Hi Webnaughts,
Thanks for the comments, I will print the latest copy of the thread for him. I just hope he doesnt pick up on the school boy error you posted, looking at the wrong url!!! and Kgun agreeing on points of error on two differnt sites! LOL, Just joking.

"By the way, if you have problems with running Nikita, it must be because of the endless errors of your page. The crawler has problems with that. Some times Search Engines too."

I think you are missing what im saying here. I cant get as far as running a test on Nikita. The links on the left are dead. Ive tried on 3 computers and i just cant click on them. The links on the right of the page are okay. Do you have the link to the URL where i can put in my website address and run a test?

1. You page has 121 markup errors and 45 other issues. Is your designer a beginner? Don't tell me that the site is under construction. That is not an excuse. ;)

Noted with thanks.
Hopefully we will get this sorted when we take down the road work signs. You have me swaying towards websites that authenicate through W3 I must say. I will however stick to my guns that its not the be all and end all as there will always be more people posting relevant info on sites that dont verify than those that do. I think its just good practice to give the spiders the most enjoyable experience whilst in a site.

I dont think he is a beginner. He worked for quite a large well known company before as a programmer

2. Headings are not properly implemented.
Watch and learn. They will be.

3. You are using tables which totally suck. Conflict between cells and rows. Also <tr> and <td> elements are implemented wrong. Nesting problems. Alarm for Search Engines crawlers.
I will point this out. Cheers.

4. You are using for endless of elements attributes with invalid values.
5. There are also special characters that have not been encoded.
You will have to expand for me?
6. You also have broken links.
Same as point 2.

Oh, and by the way did you see your site with the browser Firefox?

I guess after all, you will need to assign a company for cleaning up the work of your designer, and to fix all the mess also in terms of SEO.

We are always on the look out if our company can progress. I learnt a long time ago that its no use sitting back and thinking you know it all or else you close yourself from developing.

Wait untill you see our shopping cart it rocks. I wouldnt be surprised if you will be wearing our jewelry by this time next year as you will enjoy the cart so much.

Back on topic
Noted that they are Javascript links.
The cell has been made the link. Is it easy to have the cell as a link and also the text within the cell? I guess so right?

thanks
Steve

Webnauts · #25 (**permalink**) 03-19-2007, 12:43 PM

Well, I think you will make it buddy.

But just a side note. Many years of experience as a programmer, does not suppose to mean that he is a good designer.

I am a professional web designer and trainer myself since 7 years. Does that mean that I am also a programmer, or even a good programmer? I have absolutely no idea about programming. :)

kgun · #26 (**permalink**) 03-19-2007, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven1976a

3. You are using tables which totally suck. Conflict between cells and rows. Also <tr> and <td> elements are implemented wrong. Nesting problems. Alarm for Search Engines crawlers.
I will point this out. Cheers.

Note for disabled users, if you use tables, preferrably for tabular data, you should also use

Table description.
Table captions (there is a related CSS tag)
Table headers <th> ... </th>

Regarding document definition / declaration that is OK as long as you are working with (X)HTML documents. The future is XML driven websites with XLST (styling), XML Schema / DTD (document definition), XPath (A query language on XML nodes) ...

So prepare for the future and go to W3c and make the relevant site KW's search and to SitePoint to buy the relevant books and / or W3 School to learn the elementary aspects of the different technologies. As a minimum, a designer should know the following (upper left corner)

Learn HTML
Learn XHTML
Learn CSS

Again I point your designer to my own site:
DigitalStart

where you find a lot of resources to clean up your site.

Are we still on topic?

Minimalistic conclusion to this thread:
SE's do not (as far as I know) index links embedded in JavaScript code.