Just4YouDesigns - Final Revision! Yay! Let me know what yo

Just4YouDesigns · #1 (**permalink**) 03-17-2006, 11:40 PM

Alright everyone, I have taken TONS of your advice, and as any personal website, this is always going to be a work in progress... I intend to do TONS more search engine optimization, and link exchanges, etc.

But, this is essentially what the site will look like, and function like.

Please let me know what you think. I am quite proud of it. I feel i have come a long way, and I have all of you to thank for it!

www.Just4YouDesigns.com

God Bless!

Katie
www.Just4YouDesigns.com

**dharrison** · #2 (**permalink**) 03-18-2006, 06:20 AM

Hi Katie

I do like the design a lot. I have done from the start.

However, I still think the top banner is too big in filesize. Although I am on my laptop using a network connection (slower than my normal killer PC in the main office), transition from page to page still involves loading the same banner each time which is taking about half a minute.

Also where its quite sweet to start with "Welcome to", IMHO it is unneccessary. People have tuned into your website, now they want to hear what you have to offer.

Also I still don't buy your testimonial. The fact that you have no name or company name at the bottom of it makes me wonder if you did heed anyone's advice on this point.

But having said that, I think you have come a long way and with a few tweaks and heeding some of the great advice given to you over the last couple of weeks I think you can succeed.

The next point from here will be SEO. Taking full advantage of the <title> tags on each page would be a good start.

HTH

Paul B · #3 (**permalink**) 03-18-2006, 08:10 AM

I don't want to labor the point here, but to be blunt I still don't think you have grasped the fundamentals of basic web design!

For a start, you have one massive 1050 x 800 pixel 680Kb image (HomeImage2.png) running over the whole of the site area. This should be sliced and optimized and background color used to cut down file size to under 50Kb for all images on the page.

Just4YouDesigns · #4 (**permalink**) 03-18-2006, 09:09 AM

MVP, I am not sure what you're talking about - there is no testimonial on the page. I DID take your advice!

Also! Before anyone else comments on the background image file size - I will change it to a .jpg. I am going to be out of town for the weekend, and I won't have time to change it till Monday.

Thanks again for all of your valuable advice!

Katie

**dharrison** · #5 (**permalink**) 03-19-2006, 04:18 PM

Its the link you've given us Katie that is causing the confusion.
If you look at www.Just4YouDesigns.com I think thats the original site (the 1 big graphic).

BTW My MVP label stands for "Most Valued Poster". My actual name is Debbie. ;)

HTH

Just4YouDesigns · #6 (**permalink**) 03-19-2006, 11:42 PM

Debbie,

Thanks for your response, but the link I gave you www.just4youdesigns.com does not have a testimonial. i am not sure where the confusion is coming from. But www.just4youdesigns.com is the only url i have up.

thanks again!

God bless

katie

rclarke · #7 (**permalink**) 03-20-2006, 12:26 AM

Window probably just needed to be refreshed.

Faglork · #8 (**permalink**) 03-20-2006, 03:20 PM

"Final Revision"??

Well ... what am I supposed to say? What do you want from us? You have already been told about all those issues, and they are still there. You seem to think that a website consists of "a nice look" and nothing else.
Au contraire.

1) You still don't know what this does, do you?

Code:

<!--
function MM_reloadPage(init) {  //reloads the window if Nav4 resized
  if (init==true) with (navigator) {if ((appName=="Netscape")&&(parseInt(appVersion)==4)) {
    document.MM_pgW=innerWidth; document.MM_pgH=innerHeight; onresize=MM_reloadPage; }}
  else if (innerWidth!=document.MM_pgW || innerHeight!=document.MM_pgH) location.reload();
}
MM_reloadPage(true);
//-->

I *bet* that you don't even have NN4 installed. As I said: Pure Cargo Cult Programming ...

2) Still old-style presentational markup:

Code:

<p align="center"></p>


</p>


</p>


</p>



</p>


</p>


</p>


</p>


</p>


</p>

Here's a nice one on markup:
http://www.motive.co.nz/glossary/markup.php

3) still no idea how CSS works:

Code:

<div id="Layer10" style="position:absolute; width:344px; height:115px; z-index:11; left: 490px; top: 878px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; visibility: visible;">

    

<span class="style13">What Does Your Website Say About Yor Business? </span><span class="style13"><a href="promoting-your-website-article.htm">

    Ways to Promote Your Website!

    </a></span><span class="style13"><a href="build-it-article.htm"> If You Build It, They Will Come... NOT!

      </a></span><span class="style13"><a href="promote-article.htm">Ways to Promote Your Site

    </a></span><span class="style13"><a href="giving-article.htm">The Power of Giving

    </a></span><span class="style13"><a href="conversion-article.htm">How to Improve Your Conversion Rate


      </a></span><span class="style13"><a href="webmaster-article.htm">Choosing a Webmaster - Who, What, When, and Where

    </a></span><span class="style13">SEO for Beginners</span></p>
  </div>

Ever heard of "inheritance"? http://tinyurl.com/dp31
Ever heard of "descendant selectors"? http://tinyurl.com/njh6n

4) constructing a table with TH only is semantical nonsense:

Code:

<table width="171" border="0" align="left">
        <tr>
          <th colspan="2" scope="row"></th>
        </tr>
        <tr>
          <th colspan="2" scope="row"><div align="left" class="style9 style1 style8 style20">Home</div></th>

        </tr>
        <tr>
          <th scope="row"><span class="style20"></span></th>
          <th scope="row"><div align="left" class="style9 style1 style8 style13"><span class="style20">

          </span></div></th>
        </tr>
        <tr>
          <th colspan="2" scope="row"><div align="left" class="style9 style1 style8 style20">Services</div></th>

        </tr>
        <tr>
          <th width="3" scope="row"><span class="style20"></span></th>
          <th width="158" scope="row"><div align="left" class="style21">Custom Web Design </div></th>
        </tr>
...
...

5) More than 80 (!!) links on the homepage ... the average short term memory span of a visitor can hold about 8 links. Can you guess how confusing the page is?
Do not cram every conceivable link into your home page.

6) on a side note on the content:
"Just4YouDesigns is known as the web design firm that gives your website the unique "flair" [...]"
and
"Just4YouDesigns is a fairly new and upcoming business! We greatly appreciate your business, and need help building up our portfolio!"
do somehow contradict each other, don't you think.

7) these are just the most obvious issues.

My (earnest) advice: Get yourself two books.
a) Zeldman's "Designing with Web Standards"
b) Nielsen's "Designing Web Usability"

Read. Understand. Practice.

There are no shortcuts.

"Final Revision"? I don't believe.

hth,
faglork

PS: You scrambled the URLs in your signature.

rclarke · #9 (**permalink**) 03-20-2006, 04:30 PM

Rather harsh but true I suppose.

However, the site does look fairly good in my opinion (even if the code does not).

Must visitors visit your site, not your source code after all.

However it would be nice to master both. I am still learning myself and understand where you are coming from.

Good luck

**dharrison** · #10 (**permalink**) 03-20-2006, 05:05 PM

Arrr Yes. Thats better. Apologies for that.

Do you really need 5 different types of font in your web page? It makes the page look too busy.

The box about "Building up your Portfolio" and "give us a try, you won't regret it" just screams desperation. You don't need to mention that you're building up your portfolio. Just say you are relatively new and are offering X% discount for all customers before a certain date.

And swapping an advert for the testimonial just turns it into a circus IMHO.

Sorry I am not being abrupt on purpose, but you do need to make some tweaks to these pages.

HTH

Just4YouDesigns · #11 (**permalink**) 03-20-2006, 07:54 PM

Faglork,

There is a fine line between constructive critisism and insults.

After reading your "advice" I decided to take a look at your website - after all, someone who has enough breath to rant about my inadequacies to this extent must have an unbelieveable site.

Frankly, after looking at your website, I feel a lot better about my own.

In response to your question, yes, I do know code. In fact, I have coded raw code for over 3 years now. You're site looks like it was coded from Notepad - just raw coding. yeah, you'll have clean code, but your website couldn't get clients for a web design business. Color, style, flow... it's all things that make it look nicely, and perform accordingly. Your site has none of this. It's boring.

You want to know where all of that "fluff" code comes from - it's called Dreamweaver. It has a tendency to throw in a few extra lines here and there.

Quite frankly, I don't think my clients will care about an extra tag here and there. After all, most people in need of a web designer don't know what "source code" means and even if they did, they won't count miniscule things like you mentioned.

And in regards to the part of me being honest with my clients and telling them that I am a new company - I chose to do that based on the advice I recieved on this forum. And I do not regret it, I like the idea of being straightforward with my clients.

This is how I look at it. My website works, and it looks nice. Is it stiffly structured with perfect code? Gosh no. Does the design make up for it? I think a lot of us would think so. I certainly do. A lot of coding stiffs will rant and rave about this and that, but their sites look just aweful! No style, no eye catching anything... Clients will look at your website, not just your source code. You have to be creative, and sometimes 100% validation isn't as important as how it appears on the screen to the viewer. In fact, most clients describe how they want their site to look - not the coding specifications. That's our job. To make it look and do what it needs to. The web designers that can do these things for the client are the ones who will get the jobs.

Thanks for the time you took to review my site, but for future reference, I think you should be careful how you word things... other people are not as always as laid back as I am.

-Katie

Paul B · #12 (**permalink**) 03-21-2006, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just4YouDesigns

<snip>
You want to know where all of that "fluff" code comes from - it's called Dreamweaver. It has a tendency to throw in a few extra lines here and there.
<snip>

I don't see how you can blame DW for stuff like this:





















What's the old adage about a bad workman blaming his tools? I use DW and this only occurs when I rattle the return/enter key...

The point is, a web designer's site should be an example both front end and back end of the excellence of his/her work. To say clients don't care/know what's behind it all is an almighty cop out. That's exactly why they come to you - to take care of the techy back end stuff they don't know about - otherwise they too could build slow-loading, search-engine unfriendly sites by shoving in 600Kb images.

To post your site here with such fundamental errors as Faglork points out is frankly naive and asking to get shot down in flames. But in the end it's a free world and if you can do the business and build sites - good luck!

afcredultra · #13 (**permalink**) 03-21-2006, 08:16 AM

You have links in your content, I noticed when reading the home page. The links are the same font, color and style as the content, only the a:hover shows the link. Change the colour, or apply some sort of style to it to show it's a link. It was only through hovering my mouse over it, that I found the link.

MarcieZoob · #14 (**permalink**) 03-21-2006, 06:06 PM

Consider revamping the Services page - I ended up with three scrollbars:

1. Browser scrollbar
2. Horizontal I-Frame scrollbar
3. Vertical I-Frame scrollbar

In your portfolio, I clicked on one of your Logo links to portfolio-logo-creation.htm but received an error page.

If you want to be taken seriously, consider leaving this statement off your pages - "Just4YouDesigns is a fairly new and upcoming business - and need help building up our portfolio!" Do you only want to work with me so as to build YOUR portfolio or do you want to work with me to help ME?

phenix · #15 (**permalink**) 03-23-2006, 07:40 PM

Hello Katie,
I'm not even sure where to begin....and please note that my comments are intended to be helpful, not critical.

First, I have to say that I agree with all of the above comments. Now to add a few more:

1) view your site in a variety of browsers...netscape, firefox, opera, etc. In IE, your faqs page, for example, displays correctly but in the other browsers it doesn't. Your blue banners don't line up with your heading text. Also, you should replace the blue banner with a background color. (most of your other pages are misaligned in Firefox also). Firefox use is quickly growing in popularity so it's in your best interest to view your site in it for layout issues.

2) on the index page, you link to your index page 19 times in the first two paragraphs - why??? Why give the impression that you are giving the visitor more information to read only to have them click on the link and go nowhere?

3) the "get an estimate" form does not work.

4) last heading on pricing page is laid overtop of smaller text in Firefox.

5) there are some navigation issues - I don't feel that the site is very "user friendly". Too many links lead to the same page, duplicate information or non-existing pages.

Suggestion for building your portfolio - try pro-bono instead of advertising that you are just starting out and inexperienced. To get my design business off the ground, I developed religious or non-profit sites for free.

Best of luck,
Sharon

Faglork · #16 (**permalink**) 03-24-2006, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just4YouDesigns

This is how I look at it. My website works, and it looks nice.

No, it does not, and you know that. You did not test in various browsers, and you did not test on various OSes. I am not making this up: I could give you some downright ugly screenshots, but I guess it is futile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just4YouDesigns

Is it stiffly structured with perfect code? Gosh no.

Ahem ... if a website is "stiffly structured", it is yours. Think about "presentational markup" and "inline formatting". You seem to have a misconception about "perfect code".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just4YouDesigns

Does the design make up for it? I think a lot of us would think so. I certainly do.

As we know by now. But you are confusing "design" and "optical appearance". And to think that "good looks" can make up for bad code is no good idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just4YouDesigns

In fact, most clients describe how they want their site to look - not the coding specifications. That's our job. To make it look and do what it needs to. The web designers that can do these things for the client are the ones who will get the jobs.

How true. Exactly. That's *your* job. "To make it look and do what it needs to." Yep. "look *and* do". I couldn't have said it better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just4YouDesigns

Thanks for the time you took to review my site, but for future reference, I think you should be careful how you word things... other people are not as always as laid back as I am.

For future reference: I will never ever sugar-coat a review. There are serious code issues, and I just pointed them out.

If you take well-funded critique as an insult, I apologize. But you asked "Please let me know what you think." And I gave you my thoughts. And I put in a lot of time, selecting the best examples to illustrate the points, finding links to explain the concepts behind etc.

If you don't want that, just state that you don't want us to look at the code. But you will be missing a lot.

Cheers,
faglork

MarcieZoob · #17 (**permalink**) 03-24-2006, 07:54 AM

Great follow-up post, Faglork. I know how much time and effort you put into your reviews and your feedback is always very detailed. I personally learn a lot from you and I appreciate your participation in the forum.

Just4You, not all reviews are going to be warm and fuzzy and, if you're venturing into the world of providing web design and development services, your peers might be a little more critical. You need to know what you're doing before you take responsibility for launching someone else's website online. A company that hires you will only assume that you know what you're doing so learn from what seasoned web developers are sharing with you FOR FREE.

m2k · #18 (**permalink**) 03-31-2006, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just4YouDesigns

You're site looks like it was coded from Notepad - just raw coding.

I've been in the biz for about 7 years now and I've never used anything but CuteHTML to design sites. Believe me, you don't need to use Dreamweaver to get clients. Actually taking the time to really learn CSS would be a good bet, IMO.

Step 1a - come to the realization that you're at least a few months away from launching a competent web design business at this point.

Step 1b - get yourself a HTML editor and a book, ex.: something by Eric A. Meyer, that comes with project files. Read. Complete exercises.

Step 2 - go to css Zen Garden and break down about 5 or so of the designs that catch your eye. Understand why things are doing what they're doing.

Now apply what you've learned by redoing your site by replacing that (relatively) giant background image with pure CSS. It would drastically cut down on your page size and make it ridiculously easier to update/redesign (by "hand", no less) to keep it fresh.

If I were you, if it offends you, I would ignore the tone of Faglork's post (NEVER let an internet forum, of all things, get to you) and look at what he's telling you objectively.

******
PS - I just looked at Faglork's site in his profile. To turn the tables, for as much as it is a stellar example of proper usability and coding standards and would probably be worth highlighting in the next issue of Alertbox, it is inversely just as bland, design-wise, as anything Nielsen himself would publish. Ironically, I think if the two of you realized your strengths and weaknesses, you'd make a good business team.
******

Using the latest software without really understanding what's going on will only come back to bite you at some point in this business.

patrickkidda · #19 (**permalink**) 02-12-2007, 06:22 PM

This is hilarious