Keyword strategy ( Section 1)

[Tubby]

Keyword strategy ( Section 1)
Is your keyword strategy as effective as it could be.

Comparing your vote with more experienced and successful members of WebProWorld will allow you to select the best possible keyword strategy. Find out what boxes your favourite WPW member selected.


NEXT POLL WHAT DO WE DO WITH THESE KEYWORDS

[Doc]

Just by way of clarification, while I do use single keywords, I prefer to use phrases or longtail keywords where I can. For me, the key is to pick keywords that users are most likely to type into their search engine, and build my site around them. If I simply write my page content, and select my keywords from the text, I may have great keyword-to-page relevancy, but if the keywords or phrases are obscure, it'll do me no good.

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by Doc

Just by way of clarification, while I do use single keywords, I prefer to use phrases or longtail keywords where I can. For me, the key is to pick keywords that users are most likely to type into their search engine, and build my site around them.

That's exactly what I do. It's hard to pick a choice in a poll without knowing anything about the content of the (hypothetical) webpage. Sometimes 1-word words are enough, sometimes it may take 2 and 3-word key phrases.

But, since the keyword meta tag is no longer used (by the major's), perhaps that should have been modified in the poll to read something like "key word-phrases used in the title tag" since that's where most precedence is placed by the SE's. In that case (and I always have) placed the most important words for which you want to be found/users search for in the title tag. Those words also of course should appear throughout the webpage. I also put them in the description tag with compelling text (to facilitate more click-thru's), then the keywords tag is last for the "stragglers" that still use it, or if the major SE's ever "change their mind" about the tag.

[Uncle Dog]

Assuming a from scratch site - I discuss with the client the different phrases and words that, in an ideal world, they would expect searchers to find them by. Then we talk reality.

I chose Select the words you wish to get number one placing for as I've interpreted it as
carefully select (from the aforementioned discussion) the words and phrases that stand a realistic chance of getting you close (first page) to a number one placing

[faiza]

i do not put a only one keyword on my title. I used 5 to 8 set of keywords but be sure that the tittle looks natural and sounds natural .

[Oshine]

It is a good strategy but can someone tell me the limit to characters you are allowed in your page title. It's been bordering me for a while

[faiza]

as far as i know there is a maximum of 12 keywords that can be used in title. without repeating the same word.

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by Oshine

It is a good strategy but can someone tell me the limit to characters you are allowed in your page title. It's been bordering me for a while

The very "general" rule is 60 characters in the title tag. Note that a "word" is generally considered 5 characters so that's about 12 words. But the SE's will display more than that. (I believe G displays about 66). You can use more they just won't be displayed in the results, they'll be truncated.

Like I said in my post above, it's the most important tag. You want your most important targeted word(s) or phrase(s) to be first, and as the title progresses words lose some weight. Each word's weight or precedence past about the 12th word will drop off more dramatically.

FWIW, If a page's title it too long, it can't be saved in IE (at least not in IE6, don't know about 7 or 8).

FMI: http://www.hobo-web.co.uk/seo-blog/i...-well-read-it/

About 70 in these cases:
http://www.hobo-web.co.uk/title-tag-seo/ - Google Search

HoboA HoboB HoboC - Google Search

[kgun]

Tubby, another good thread.

In my order of priority, I voted for:

1. Select the words you wish to get number one placing for
2. Select words that users is likely to search for search for
3. Select words from text on the selected web page

and thought of voting for:

Select a 2 or 3 word phrase.

I miss though, using software like wrodtracker, acronymfinder to pick keywords.

[nickoran]

I personally like to try not go over the limit, i.e what google will display in the search results. It may be a matter of preference, but you still need to remember that just ranking up high doesnt mean you automatically get the hit, you still need to seem appealing enough to the person searching.

[lyrickat21]

Thanks for sharing such great information. I absolutely love this site, everyone has such great knowledge of SEO. I am really learning a lot

[allenhoward]

SEO starts with a solid keyword research and sorting. Most of the SEO professionals are impatient and always in a hurry to implement their ideas.
Well, that keeps them revising their SEO Services efforts and eventual loss of time and traffic. Keyword research for effective SEO results needs a lot of patience and intelligent calculations. Above all you should be using the best possible tools to perform keyword research for a strong search engine optimization.
For example Google Keyword Tool, Google Insight and Google Suggestions. You will get the exact number of monthly searches on Google Keyword Tool. Here is what you should do then;
a) Download them in an excel sheet.
b) Find out your kind of keywords (that match your website content and products).
c) Sort them by daily searches.
d) Collect the best ones for the Home and do similar calculations for the other important internal pages.

[Tubby]

allenhoward said

"Most of the SEO professionals are impatient and always in a hurry to implement their ideas."

OOOPS! That was a very brave thing to say. 'MOST' is a big word

Lol.

[inertia]

you will get the exact number of monthly searches on Google Keyword Tool.

No you wont.

"Most of the SEO professionals are impatient and always in a hurry to implement their ideas."

Maybe the ones you know are in a hurry. But the ones i know are concise, thorough, use software far beyond the capabilities of free Google tools and produce keyword research for clients of a highly concise nature, sometimes as a stand alone service.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by allenhoward

For example Google Keyword Tool, Google Insight and Google Suggestions. You will get the exact number of monthly searches on Google Keyword Tool.

To the best of my knowledge, the only such tool to ever give accurate results was that of Overture, which Yahoo discontinued.

[cw1865]

Yes, I miss the overture keyword selector tool....I voted for select 10 keywords, but for any given site I gun for one generic and a reasonable number of slightly less competitve ancillary terms and obviously figure I should do relatively well for specific long tail product names......

[deepsand]

Which raises the question as to why Yahoo discontinued it.

Perhaps an opinion poll is in order.

[cw1865]

Well, when it was working, you might've noted that it didn't work that well during the day and you had to do your keyword searches at like 3:00AM to make sure you query would go through. I think yahoo was essentially cutting off non-yahoo/overture customers from their information.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by cw1865

Well, when it was working, you might've noted that it didn't work that well during the day and you had to do your keyword searches at like 3:00AM to make sure you query would go through. I think yahoo was essentially cutting off non-yahoo/overture customers from their information.

Could be. If they were, though, I don't think they did themselves any favor. They might have garnered a significant share of the market, with the most effective tool around (at least among the SEO types).

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by cw1865

Well, when it was working, you might've noted that it didn't work that well during the day and you had to do your keyword searches at like 3:00AM to make sure you query would go through. I think yahoo was essentially cutting off non-yahoo/overture customers from their information.

Never had any problem using it at any time of the day, regardless of whether or not logged in under Overture/Yahoo acct..

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by Doc

Could be. If they were, though, I don't think they did themselves any favor. They might have garnered a significant share of the market, with the most effective tool around (at least among the SEO types).

There was a time when Overture was the premiere PPC platform.

For some inexplicable reason(s), Yahoo took something that worked well & "fixed" it, with the result being a monstrous sluggish disfunctional application that drove one to tears.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by deepsand

There was a time when Overture was the premiere PPC platform.

For some inexplicable reason(s), Yahoo took something that worked well & "fixed" it, with the result being a monstrous sluggish disfunctional application that drove one to tears.

That's progress, dang it!

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by Doc

That's progress, dang it!

Sad; but, true.

Each day brings fresh evidence of those who seem to have never learned that "Form follows Function," of those who are so thoroughly enamored of "cool," "now," "happening," etc., that they've no care for how well anything actually works.

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by deepsand

Which raises the question as to why Yahoo discontinued it.

Perhaps an opinion poll is in order.

.................

[deepsand]

See http://www.webproworld.com/groups/10...t#gmessage1006

[stevekolbe]

If your services are locally based, do you append a geographic identifier into your keywords? Such as "cattle herders montana"?

Thanks!
___________________________
IT Consulting, Network Support, Cloud Computing Services
Online Store with over 950,000 IT and computer related items

[deepsand]

That depends on whether or not there's evidence of users doing so.

In the absence of such, one must rely of the content of the ad itself to distinguish itself with respect to geographic scope.

[mortenstorgaard]

Just wanted to say thank you for posting here, I am getting smarter every minute from reading here personaly I usually pick long tail words to get to drive traffic to my site, because the short-tail search strings are allready taken. But I guess Denmark is different than US -might be even harder in US due to the size......

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by mortenstorgaard

... I usually pick long tail words to get to drive traffic to my site, because the short-tail search strings are allready taken. But I guess Denmark is different than US -might be even harder in US due to the size......

Actually, it's rather easy to do here as well; larger doesn't necessarily mean smarter.

[Terry Van Horne]

Originally Posted by Clint1

The very "general" rule is 60 characters in the title tag. Note that a "word" is generally considered 5 characters so that's about 12 words. But the SE's will display more than that. (I believe G displays about 66). You can use more they just won't be displayed in the results, they'll be truncated.

I think Google truncates at 66th character or there abouts. I know of a test where it is indicated 10 words are weighted... rest if the qwords may as well be in the doc. Haven't tested it lately so it may have changed... though I doubt it.

Originally Posted by Clint1

FMI: Google – How Many Words In A Page Title Tag? | Hobo

About 70 in these cases:
http://www.hobo-web.co.uk/title-tag-seo/ - Google Search

HoboA HoboB HoboC - Google Search

Yes Hobo Web is a great resource... if you sign up to the newsletter he's giving away the ebook he's releasing on link building.

[inertia]

I think Google truncates at 66th character or there abouts.

I've always thought it was 70?

I've been using this tool recently to get my listings looking cool: Google SERP Snippet Optimization Tool.

[reubin]

1.Select words that users is likely to search for search for .
2.Select words that I want user to search for word

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by reubin

1.Select words that users is likely to search for search for.

Isn't that self evident?

Originally Posted by reubin

2.Select words that I want user to search for word

How do you get users to search for words of your choice?

[nickoran]

Originally Posted by deepsand

How do you get users to search for words of your choice?

A chair, duct tape and a feather!

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by nickoran

A chair, duct tape and a feather!

While that would undoubtedly work, wouldn't it be an under-utilization of resources?

[mjtaylor]

First I talk to the client about what terms they expect their target market to use to find them. Then I use a keyword tool to see what people are actually searching. Currently I like Google keyword search tool, but if I'm not getting enough suggestions I like Trellian's tool and there is a free version.

In most cases, I work from the top down; that is, I select the most popular term as my primary target. This works well in geographic areas, but in more competitive markets, longer tailed terms must be found.

Once I have my list in an Excel file, and think I am done, I do also look at the competitions keywords to see if we've missed something obvious.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by mjtaylor

... I do also look at the competitions keywords to see if we've missed something obvious.

Would you elaborate?

[marky12]

I prefer 2 to 3 keyword phrase this is the most effective way to increase your SERP's using this keyword method.

[sarahking]

Originally Posted by Clint1

The very "general" rule is 60 characters in the title tag. Note that a "word" is generally considered 5 characters so that's about 12 words. But the SE's will display more than that. (I believe G displays about 66). You can use more they just won't be displayed in the results, they'll be truncated.

Like I said in my post above, it's the most important tag. You want your most important targeted word(s) or phrase(s) to be first, and as the title progresses words lose some weight. Each word's weight or precedence past about the 12th word will drop off more dramatically.

FWIW, If a page's title it too long, it can't be saved in IE (at least not in IE6, don't know about 7 or .

FMI: Google – How Many Words In A Page Title Tag? | Hobo

About 70 in these cases:
http://www.hobo-web.co.uk/title-tag-seo/ - Google Search


HoboA HoboB HoboC - Google Search

LOL, I had no idea you could put so many words in a tag. I obviously wouldn't try as many as your mythbusters have but really interesting stuff, thanks.

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by sarahking

LOL, I had no idea you could put so many words in a tag. I obviously wouldn't try as many as your mythbusters have but really interesting stuff, thanks.

You can put more in it than 60-70. They just won't be displayed in the (G) SERP's past the 66th or thereabouts. And like I said they'll start to lose weight as the characters increase.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by marky12

I prefer 2 to 3 keyword phrase this is the most effective way to increase your SERP's using this keyword method.

What basis have you for so concluding?

And, what if the keywords/phrases are employed for SEM, rather than SEO?

[sarahking]

Originally Posted by Clint1

You can put more in it than 60-70. They just won't be displayed in the (G) SERP's past the 66th or thereabouts. And like I said they'll start to lose weight as the characters increase.

Hi Clint
Would this also work for the description that search engines display? I think they display about 155 characters including spaces. Would SE's pick up on keywords in the description that wont display in the search results?

[deepsand]

Bots retrieve, and Indexing Engines store and process, everything, regardless of what is and is not publicly displayed.

[sarahking]

Originally Posted by deepsand

Bots retrieve, and Indexing Engines store and process, everything, regardless of what is and is not publicly displayed.

OK, so is there any limit on the amount of words you can put in the description or could one theoretically go on and on and on with the same effect as the title, with the SE putting less weight on words the further they are down the list?

[cw1865]

Originally Posted by deepsand

What basis have you for so concluding?

And, what if the keywords/phrases are employed for SEM, rather than SEO?

When I first started building websites, I had only ONE website. And no matter how I sliced it, I only did well on a couple of keywords. No matter what I did, I simply hit a ceiling and could not proceed beyond it. I began to build more websites and tailored each website to focus in on a specific number of generic keywords and the results were much better.

If you spread your effort for any given website over a wide range of keywords your website is likely going to be the proverbial 'jack of all trades, but a master of none.'

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by sarahking

OK, so is there any limit on the amount of words you can put in the description or could one theoretically go on and on and on with the same effect as the title, with the SE putting less weight on words the further they are down the list?

Setting aside physical limitations imposed by hardware/software, theoretically possible.

However, as for the weights given, we can but speculate.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by cw1865

When I first started building websites, I had only ONE website. And no matter how I sliced it, I only did well on a couple of keywords. No matter what I did, I simply hit a ceiling and could not proceed beyond it. I began to build more websites and tailored each website to focus in on a specific number of generic keywords and the results were much better.

If you spread your effort for any given website over a wide range of keywords your website is likely going to be the proverbial 'jack of all trades, but a master of none.'

The nexus to my cited post is wholly unclear.

As for the matter here, I would ask how it is that ones degree of success with respect to a particular keyword should differ according to where the relevant page resides, particularly with respect to related keywords.

As for JOATs, it is frequently the case that "good enough" is not only sufficient, but also the more efficient.

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by sarahking

Hi Clint
Would this also work for the description that search engines display? I think they display about 155 characters including spaces. Would SE's pick up on keywords in the description that wont display in the search results?

No. The description tag is not used for any indexing, it's only there for SE users to see the......well, "description" of the webpage. I would guess you could theoretically make it as long as you wanted, but what the SE's wouldn't display would simply be wasted. As to what they display, it can also depend on title tag length, the layout of the SE results page, etc., there's like a certain amount of "real estate" allocated per result.

[sarahking]

Thanks Clint, thats useful to know right now as I am trying to write descriptions at the moment. This stuff just takes hours and hours of time and I keep getting sidetracked with other SEO things that I've got to do and the list just keeps growing and growing, but hey, you don't need to know that.

[deepsand]

To be precise, the description is indexed, as are all data collected by bots. Being indexed, being used for determining SERP rank, and being displayed in the SERPs are 3 entirely different things.