John A. Lawyer v. John Lawyer - Middle Initial Usage

[epep]

I do a lot of tech work within the legal community -- please hold off on your lawyer jokes for now. Yes, they pay me and, no, they don't look to swindle me on my bills.

In the legal community, it is somewhat customary for an attorney to list their name with the inclusion of their middle initial. For example: John Lawyer will list his name as "John A. Lawyer" in all of his publications, including his website. As John becomes known throughout the community, people typically refer to him as "John Lawyer". I would assume that holds true for searches as well -- people are more likely to search "John Lawyer" than "John A. Lawyer".

For the purposes of search engine optimization, would you suggest dropping the middle initial within the <title> and <h1> tags? I want to get as good of placement as possible for the main name and I think the middle initial is holding us back.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

EP

[Dubbya]

If it's "John A. Lawyer" and that's how you market the site and the firm then that's fine. Stick to your present course and you'll be more successful all around.

In effect, "John Lawyer" and "John A. Lawyer" are two different people. "John Lawyer" might be a plumber, botanist, sex-offender or popular 1940's movie star, so you'd have a tough time competing in that space.

The middle initial will help more than hinder an accurate search for the simple fact that it'll be easier to market and have less competition. I'd recommend you follow that route and concentrate your efforts there.

Here's a link to a thread in another forum that pretty much discusses the pros and cons.

LinkedIn: Answers: Vanity Search...how do I organically boost my SEO when I share my name with a popular porn star?

.02

[epep]

Thanks for the input Dubbya - much appreciated.

Originally Posted by Dubbya

In effect, "John Lawyer" and "John A. Lawyer" are two different people. "John Lawyer" might be a plumber, botanist, sex-offender or popular 1940's movie star, so you'd have a tough time competing in that space.

That's the ticket -- I want to BEAT the plumber, sex-offender, 1940's movie star, etc. In a perfect world, I want that name to be the number 1 instance of "John Lawyer" on the internet. People are unlikely to remember the middle initial, let alone search for it. So long as the attorney's name isn't "William Smith" or some other obviously famous name, there's something worth fighting for there. There's definitely some value to achieving that status.

EP

[greg artim]

For once, I think that I disagree with Dubbya on a thread.

You are right, there are few searches that include a middle initial, unless you are searching for someone like John F. Kennedy, or there is a really common name like John Smith.

I am an attorney, and I do reference myself professionally as Gregory T. Artim. However, my analytics say that people search for "Greg Artim" or "Attorney Greg Artim" every time.

Then again, does the initial hurt for SEO purposes... I doubt it. Google parses, right?

[epep]

Thanks for the input Greg.

Originally Posted by greg artim

Then again, does the initial hurt for SEO purposes... I doubt it. Google parses, right?

Sure, Google et al will parse the initial, but it's just like any other search, we're concerned with density and proximity of the words that are actually in the search phrase.

Wouldn't it make sense that a page optimized for "John Lawyer" will rank better for searches that are looking for "John Lawyer" than will a page that is optimized for "John A. Lawyer". (Wow, I'm not even certain that I can parse that last sentance, follow what I'm getting at?) The "A." seems to be getting in the way for my purposes... that's all I'm trying to get at.

EP

[SemAdvance]

If one understands weighting & density within the title & meta description tags then it would serve you best to drop the A.

LSI usage within the algorithm would dictate to drop the A. as well.

However for an attorney I would not use SEO since the consumer mindset within the organic SERP is mostly information seekers.

You would be better served setting up a lead generation campaign with paid marketing to find a more "buy" minded consumer.

[epep]

Originally Posted by SemAdvance

However for an attorney I would not use SEO since the consumer mindset within the organic SERP is mostly information seekers.

You would be better served setting up a lead generation campaign with paid marketing to find a more "buy" minded consumer.

I agree on the dropping of the middle initial for the search optimization. I disagree, however, with your last statement. In my experience, a lot of people that are searching for an attorney, especially those that are searching by the specific name of the attorney, have already heard of the attorney from an external source and are merely looking to confirm credentials or seek out that attorney's personal biography. I think your statement holds true for keywords that area of practice oriented ("personal injury" or "estate planning"), but not for the name of the actual attorney.

Once someone hears of an attorney, they will often times go to their favorite search engine and simply search the name -- hence my attitude for optimizing for the actual name itself as it is usually searched.

Thanks for the input, this is all very helpful information!

EP

[cw1865]

I agree, the middle name or initial isn't going to be particularly remembered or sought after by users. If its a relatively unique name 'John Weirdname' then I don't think the middle initial will hurt, but with common names, the user is quickly going to have to figure out that the search is going to need to be geographically limited (state/county/town).

In terms of 'lead generation' I don't think this is particularly important since if they know the name of the attorney and are making a very specific search, they're going to keep looking until they find that particular individual even if it means that they're going to 411 it. For lead generation, you're still looking for a generic search coupled with a geographic limitation....Respectfully submitted for your consideration, Craig J. Walenta, Esq. - Attorney at Law, State of New Jersey, located in northeastern Morris County in the Borough of Riverdale, Township of Pequannock, Wayne, Bloomingdale, Butler, Kinnelon specializing in general litigation, real estate, wills, trusts, and appeals. (Do you guys think the 'J.' would matter here?)

[edhan]

Personally it will be okay to use John A. Lawyer for search engine purpose. Why? I just did a search for John Lawyer and the result in the second page shown LAW OFFICES OF JOHN P. LAWYER SUITE 100, 1000 MAIN STREET ATLANTA - highlighting LAW JOHN LAWYER

So, in terms of search engine, the result will still find even if you are using John A. Lawyer. So I do find that it will be unique and more precise for someone to search and getting the right person instead of just a common name like John lawyer.

[epep]

Originally Posted by cw1865

Respectfully submitted for your consideration, Craig J. Walenta, Esq. - Attorney at Law, State of New Jersey, located in northeastern Morris County in the Borough of Riverdale, Township of Pequannock, Wayne, Bloomingdale, Butler, Kinnelon specializing in general litigation, real estate, wills, trusts, and appeals. (Do you guys think the 'J.' would matter here?)

Well put CW. That search string and/or block of keyword heavy content will certainly not heavily effected by the use of the "J." in the initial. I would opine that a middle initial or slight variations in names become less and less important as geographic or industrial search queries are added.

Originally Posted by edhan

Personally it will be okay to use John A. Lawyer for search engine purpose. Why? I just did a search for John Lawyer and the result in the second page shown LAW OFFICES OF JOHN P. LAWYER SUITE 100, 1000 MAIN STREET ATLANTA - highlighting LAW JOHN LAWYER

So, in terms of search engine, the result will still find even if you are using John A. Lawyer. So I do find that it will be unique and more precise for someone to search and getting the right person instead of just a common name like John lawyer.

For the sake of disclaimer, I intended the name "John A. Lawyer" to be for example purposes only. I do not work for anyone by that name. But your example does highlight some conclusions that we've been arriving at earlier in the discussion:

John Lawyer, - Google Search

Search results for "John Lawyer":
1. John Lawyer : WhitePages.com
2. John Lawyer - Bethel University College of Arts & Sciences
3. St. John attorney - St. John lawyer - AllLaw.com
...
(10. THIS forum discussion)

Now, granted, the name "John Lawyer" may have been a bad example name to use here because of the obvious issues with a generic word that relates to the industry being the last name, but we can see that the direct hit of "John Lawyer" without any middle initials or qualifying language between was the number one result. Albeit unscientific, I think this highlights the importance of not using the middle initial for these types of searches.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...22&btnG=Search

Search results for "John A. Lawyer"
1. Casarow John A Lawyer Jr in Bridgeton, New Jersey. (nj.) #28545739
2. De Falco John A Lawyer in Haddonfield, New Jersey. (nj.) #28229762
3. Wibe John A Lawyer in Cherokee, IA | 427 West Main Street ...
4. THIS forum discussion

With the middle initial present, we're seeing deeper results. Granted, this was a phonied up name for example purposes only, but I think this shows something of what we had previously discussed over the past 24 hours. This is really helpful stuff guys, thank you.

EP

[seopo]

If you make a concious effort you should place well with or without the initial in the SERPs

Personally:

Onsite, keep you customers happy and continue to use the middle initial.

Offsite mix it up. It's more natural and should help with any potential spread of terms

[SEO]

The keyword 'John A. Lawyer' in the title has within it the keyword 'John Lawyer' by default.

HOWEVER:
From an SEO perspective, you would do your clients more justice by targeting keywords such as 'Florida Product Liability Lawyer - John A. Lawyer', or 'Florida Injury Lawyer - John A. Lawyer', or 'Florida Medical Malpractice Lawyer' (with John A. Lawyer in the page content), or 'Florida Car Accident Lawyer' (with an 'about John A. Lawyer' page)

You need to target keywords that searchers are using to find what they are looking for.

To me... Taking up title space with the keyword 'John A. Lawyer' is a bit like pouring diesel in a nitro engine.

If your clients definitely and positively want their name then I would definitely use 'John A. Lawyer' within the title but also add 'John Lawyer' once or twice in the page content.

[epep]

Originally Posted by SEO

You need to target keywords that searchers are using to find what they are looking for.

To me... Taking up title space with the keyword 'John A. Lawyer' is a bit like pouring diesel in a nitro engine.

Very valid points, thanks for your input. I agree that it is a bit overkill, but it's all interrelated in some fashion, right? As the attorney becomes more recognized for their name and their areas of practice, it should in effect increase that attorney's presence in the local listings (Google Local, Yahoo Local, etc) and so on. Becoming the #1 John Lawyer on the internet truly couldn't hurt, right?

I will keep the middle initial in the title tag, but will use the name elsewhere on the page without the middle initial.

EP