Would this be considered paying for a link?

[calledminime]

Hello everyone,

Building links is an important part of the overall SEO puzzle; however, methods like link exchanges no longer seem like a worthwhile/effective method.

Some have suggested to be the best at what you are offering/doing and links will naturally come. I can see that happening if you are offering a unique service or something online/technologically based; however, I would imagine for a good majority of online businesses, this advice probably is not quite enough.

With all that said, I am currently setting something up to hopefully generate additional links while avoiding black hat practices.

The company I work for receives a lot of requests for special pricing/donations from non-profit organizations. In addition to our e-commerce site that sells our products, I've set up a blog for our company - not necessarily as a vessel to sell our products but rather as another way to market/promote HOW our products can and have been used. In addition to the blog, I have also set up a Flickr group and a Youtube account as well; I am trying to leverage various Web 2.0 resources to encourage the companies that use our products to take the time to share their stories, pictures, videos, etc. Ultimately, I am trying to set up a resource where companies, profit and non-profit, can share stories and network.

I am not looking to require participation in any/all of the Web 2.0 resources - the donation will be made regardless. If they do participate, we don't require that they mention our company or the donation, but by default, since they are making a blog post on our site or are joining our Flickr group, they probably will make some sort of mention of us/the donation. The main focus is to get them to participate, as long as they do that we are perfectly happy - there are no requirements or parameters, we just want them to share their experiences.

So, my question is, if we donate products and ask but DO NOT require them to add a link, post a blog entry, join our Flickr group or post a video, would this still be considered a way of trying to buy links, if they do in fact participate in any/all of the above?

[Old Welsh Guy]

you are getting too paranoid, You ave been googlewashed

Those who say 'if you build it links will come' are pretty naive by and large. Sure, SOME links will come, but not in the volume or quality yuou need.

What you re suggesting is perfectly ok. I offer services for free to charities, and many of them have linked back to me. I offer individual advice to people offline, my comment is normally, I don't want money, but if you fancy throwing me a backlink, use this anchor text and point it here.

That is basic business.

'bought links' are classically links in small text in a block on a pretty unimportant part of the page. This has changed quite a bit as people have gotten smarter, and now includes paid reviews, paid blog posts etc (these are pretty much unidentifiable via an algorithm).

As i said, what you are proposing is fine, just try and get them to thank you contextually from he body copy, and use the right anchor text to the right page on your site LOL

[activeco]

Originally Posted by calledminime

Building links is an important part of the overall SEO puzzle;

Well, building links for a SE is very wrong from the SE perspective.
Building links for the sake of the traffic from the links is the right attitude.

So, my question is, if we donate products and ask but DO NOT require them to add a link, post a blog entry, join our Flickr group or post a video, would this still be considered a way of trying to buy links, if they do in fact participate in any/all of the above?

With the above statement in mind, there is nothing wrong with the tactic.

[kgun]

Originally Posted by calledminime

So, my question is, if we donate products and ask but DO NOT require them to add a link, post a blog entry, join our Flickr group or post a video, would this still be considered a way of trying to buy links, if they do in fact participate in any/all of the above?

As an economist I will say there have to be a market, a demand and a supply schedule where the price is set where the two schedules cross. Is is hidden payment?

But my question is: What is spam?

The ideal SE is objectively ranking content. Is that requirement fulfilled?

Originally Posted by Old Welsh Guy

What you re suggesting is perfectly ok. I offer services for free to charities, and many of them have linked back to me. I offer individual advice to people offline, my comment is normally, I don't want money, but if you fancy throwing me a backlink, use this anchor text and point it here.

My bolding. I would not be that conclusive. No one here work for Google as far as I know, and even if some did, I would not take what a Google PR individual said literally. Most probably he is far away from the internal algorithms.

[incrediblehelp]

I agree with Welsh nothing wrong here.

[kgun]

But is it direct or indirect payment in your view or is it dependent on the value of the gift?

<off topic>
Holland 4 - France 1.
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[vwickam]

I couldn't agree more. Getting a listing on someone's sponsor's page with a logo and link has been a standard practice when somebody sponsors and event.

In some ways this is buying a link, but not in the way that Google discourages it. I wouldn't worry about getting tripped up by google the wa you are doing it.

<in your signature only please>

[claybutler]

Google doesn't like paid links because it makes it harder for them to judge true popularity. Therefore they discourage webmasters from doing it. Google makes billions of dollars off selling links. They can do this because they dominate the SE market. They dominate because they are generally better at fetching relevant results.

Of course the irony of the dominant SE (Google) telling people not to manipulate them when they have built a billion dollar business on manipulating us is quite comical. Google's interest are not your interests. Their webmaster guidelines are self serving, as they should be. It's their business. However, because of their enormous dominance, their business affects your business much more so than the reverse.

The day Google behaves as if there are no search engines ( ie: stops selling ads, make the workings of their algorithms public, share openly their business practices with webmasters, stop expanding into every market they think they could sell an ad in, etc) is the day I will behave if there are no search engines as well. Until then, your success on the web depends a lot on how well you rank in Google's natural SERP's. To not try to manipulate that to your advantage makes no sense.

They really have no way of knowing if a link is bought or not, so they try to publicly scare you into not doing it.

I'd say your strategy is really wholesome and in the spirit of how we all wish things would be. People helping, people who in turn reciprocate, not out of contractual obligation, but because they want to.

[advancedmerchant]

If you are donating products, it is perfectly accepable to let them know you would appreciate a link to your site - with a testimonial or comments IN THEIR OWN WORDS. Much more powerful than providing them canned anchor text, and the SE's cannot flag these links as 'bought' as they are all unique and different. If they ask for a logo and/or a graphic, have a page ready with DOZENS of them, in different colors, black & white, along with different sizes.

[blogdawg1]

I also, totally agree with Welsh. Heck we are a link building company and I wish I could build links for all of our clients as "white hat" as you are doing it. You are actually rolling out some excellent strategies.

Google has made everyone paranoid about "paid links", yet given no clear cut definition of a paid link. If you pay an employee to get links for you are they all paid links? How about that press release you paid to distribute? And so on....

[kgun]

Originally Posted by blogdawg1

I also, totally agree with Welsh. Heck we are a link building company and I wish I could build links for all of our clients as "white hat" as you are doing it. You are actually rolling out some excellent strategies.

My experience from different companies is that gifts over a certain amount shall be reported and taxed as income if it is valued above a certain amount. This is Norwegian and not international rules and may vary from country to country.

Originally Posted by blogdawg1

Google has made everyone paranoid about "paid links", yet given no clear cut definition of a paid link. If you pay an employee to get links for you are they all paid links? How about that press release you paid to distribute? And so on....

If true,

1. Is that good, neutral, evil or confusing?
2. What is your personal meaning?

[SEO]

All that Google asks is that everything be 'natural'.
As soon as something looks like it was done specifically for SEO you risk the possibility of attracting their attention.

[davidweb]

Google will feel Good as long as you do not try to score free rankings and rely on their adwords technology

In the past few months Google is trying to STOP every single attempt in Search engine optimization. This includes paid links, link exchanges, but what about paid links offered on Google itself ( under adwords) ??

The best way to score higher rankings on Google is never to use any pre-defined sequence in optimization. Just make sure that your optimization is done in natural fashion without PUTTING TOO MUCH STRESS ON "ONE /TWO TARGETED KEYWORDS".

Just by having a sequence which cannot be detected by Google, I am sure they will grant ranking to your website. However do not rely on link buying ( unless and until it is a high RANKING website, and not HIGH PR ( Page Rank).

[rattlesnakedriver]

A little off topic here, perhaps another good discussion about leveraging flickr without getting banned, but be careful with how you set up your flickr groups etc. If they smell even the faintest whiff of commercial intent they will immediately ban your account without any warning or explanation. I had paid for upgrade to the pro account and when I was banned I lost the money and that was that.

My intent was to create groups that showed pictures of customers using the products we sell on their different makes & models of vehicles. So I created a group for say Ford showing pictures that customers send to us of an aftermarket product being used on their Ford. All in all, I felt was a a decent resource for anyone searching how a certain product would look on their vehicle. I did however have a link back to our website as part of the group, because hey that's what the mission is all about. but I guess flickr feels otherwise.

anyways would be interested to hear how others are using flickr successfully to get links back to their site...

[Old Welsh Guy]

What I WOULD say, is that IF you got links like that, and IF the site you got your links on had sculpted PR to that page to give it a really high PR value, THEN it might raise a google eybrow. very few 'natural' things (like your method), will raise a flag on its own. It when a few elements come together that links get thought of as 'questionable'.

[SEO]

Originally Posted by blogdawg1

I also, totally agree with Welsh. Heck we are a link building company and I wish I could build links for all of our clients as "white hat" as you are doing it. You are actually rolling out some excellent strategies.

Google has made everyone paranoid about "paid links", yet given no clear cut definition of a paid link. If you pay an employee to get links for you are they all paid links? How about that press release you paid to distribute? And so on....

Is there any evidence that a paid link from Yahoo is worth nothing to your search engine results (or will get you penalized)...?

I have never "bought" a link (I have paid people to get links for me) but I think - as you said 'Google has made everyone paranoid about "paid links", yet given no clear cut definition of a paid link'.

A paid link from Yahoo is a "paid" link. Yet has Google penalized the Yahoo directory or the sites linked to from the Yahoo directory...?

Obviously Google see's different types of paid links differently... There are paid links for traffic (banner ads, Google Adsense, etc)... And then there are "paid" links set up specifically to gain search engine rankings and covet PR. These are the ones that Google is looking out for... "Manipulative Links".

If what you are setting up is being set up for the benefit of the 'browser' or consumer, then it should pass through the algorithms without raising any red flags, but if it is set up with the primary goal of coveting PR and increasing SE rankings, then it is only a matter of time before Google picks up on it...

Originally Posted by calledminime

Ultimately, I am trying to set up a resource where companies, profit and non-profit, can share stories and network.

Originally Posted by calledminime

With all that said, I am currently setting something up to hopefully generate additional links while avoiding black hat practices.

Google does love interactive networks...

[Terry Van Horne]

Originally Posted by Old Welsh Guy

'bought links' are classically links in small text in a block on a pretty unimportant part of the page. This has changed quite a bit as people have gotten smarter, and now includes paid reviews, paid blog posts etc

An active rat program makes this way riskier then I'd be willing to stake a clients money on. (

Originally Posted by Old Welsh Guy

these are pretty much unidentifiable via an algorithm).

I'd disagree to some degree... yes the paid is tough to do algorithmically unless it is a pattern of IBLs that is analyzed not the links themselves. In fact identify a few review sites which offend... see who is linked to and look for similarities between IBL profiles... Not simple but... does seem a pattern is identifiable by algo

Originally Posted by Old Welsh Guy

As i said, what you are proposing is fine, just try and get them to thank you contextually from he body copy, and use the right anchor text to the right page on your site LOL

Or just do it on your own site with lots of content that you are in total control of! IMO, any of the paid blogging will be found and elimiated Google has too many people drinkin' their koolaid to enable that to work for very long. I don't think it co-incidental that the paid links slapdown was around the same time as the paid to blog networks were getting up and running.