How do you know if a competitor is using Negative SEO against your site?

[z28com]

I've had a client that had one of their sites dropped down past page 300 on Google for their main search term. It turned out that somebody had sites banned by Google linking to their site with the key words that they are going after. The company had to take legal action on the sites to get the links removed.

Is there any on-line tools or software that can be run to determine if somebody is using Negative SEO to either bring down your web site or push you down on your key words?

When doing a Google search for sites linking to you, Google only shows sites with a somewhat high page rank. Since a banned site will have a gray bar for the PR, these sites will not show up as one of the back-links. By checking Yahoo or Alta Vista back links, how else can you easily find out Google banned sites that are linking to you without having to go through each site, one at a time by hand to check the Google Tool Bar? Is there any fast, automated way of finding this out?

I would appreciate any feedback on this as I am sure there are a lot of concerned webmasters regarding this issue.

[kgun]

Did you notice this
¨
Can inbound links really hurt you?

thread?

[z28com]

Thanks, but I read that thread. Most of the posts on there were from people who did not believe it could happen. I am looking for software that can automatically spider all of the in-bound links and determine what links or domains are banned by Google. My client has had proof that negative SEO works. Their links shot up after the links were removed. Now they are going down and it's like trying to hit the weasel with a mallet trying to figure out who's doing it.

[kgun]

Have you searched for

"reputation marketing tools" OR "reputation management tools" (10 200 hits here)

or variations thereoff?

[janeth]

Originally Posted by z28com

Thanks, but I read that thread. Most of the posts on there were from people who did not believe it could happen. I am looking for software that can automatically spider all of the in-bound links and determine what links or domains are banned by Google. My client has had proof that negative SEO works. Their links shot up after the links were removed. Now they are going down and it's like trying to hit the weasel with a mallet trying to figure out who's doing it.

I've got a hard time believing it could be that easy. If it is then having a site banned is a plus.

Buy links for your competition here

Buy links for your sites here

[poppo]

How can you tell if sites been banned by google?
Alone Moms
Happy Senior Living
they were in google now there gone have I been banned

[powsurfer]

I also find it hard to believe it could be that easy.

For a comprehensive list of sites that are linking to them, Google webmaster tools are good at giving a comprehensive list

[kevsta]

Originally Posted by janeth

I've got a hard time believing it could be that easy. If it is then having a site banned is a plus.

Buy links for your competition here

Buy links for your sites here

lol, i just registered buydodgylinks.com

[SEO]

Originally Posted by z28com

I am looking for software that can automatically spider all of the in-bound links and determine what links or domains are banned by Google.

SEO Elite Software | Search Engine Optimization | Link Popularity | Web Promotion | Link Exchange Search Tool (Not an affiliate link).

NOTE: You would still have to check manually which ones are banned by Google.

[cpnkurk]

This wont be fully automated, but it still is going to make it faster for you.

D/L this Firefox pluggin : seoquake.

Once installed, it gives you a bunch of interesting results, including page rank.

So whit a combination of : link: yoursite.com in google + seoquake; should make your life a little easier.

... hoping this will help you out.

[jglogau]

Hi:

I don't think Google can automatically protect against this but they are very concerned. I just got back from SMX Advanced and got the feeling from Matt Cutts' session that they like to stop this kind of abuse.

I think you need to document this problem and report through Google Webmasters Tools.

If you feel you can't get an audience I will try to help. This is more then a single client problem. Contact me at Internet Reputation Management

Jordan

[benc007]

I have noticed some key pages that have been PR4+ for the past 7 years drop to being a grey bar (PR 0). I am not sure how my competitors are doing this? Can anyone help?

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by benc007

I have noticed some key pages that have been PR4+ for the past 7 years drop to being a grey bar (PR 0). I am not sure how my competitors are doing this? Can anyone help?

Why do you conclude that competitors are to blame?

And, are all competitive advantages evil?

[Palindrome]

Would somebody like to provide concrete, researched evidence on sites that have been deindexed/punished purely because someone bought a few links to them, or posted others in an undesirable spot. We could all be rich in a month, how much would a multi-national pay to take down a rival.

There are a few people in this world who do sell negative services but they don't approach their task in that way. More a long, concerted campaign, that still often fails, not least with search engines.

Take the two "banned" sites mentioned in this post. Sorry poppo but these aren't websites, just doorway pages, full of duplicate text. Why would anyone want them in their index.

An obvious example but there's normally a reason. Of the hundreds of sites I've seen that have screamed foul play, I can think of one that was genuine. That was a concerted campaign, registering linked overseas domains, bribing insiders, etc.

For most people reading this thread, I would take a look closer to home.

[newsblaze]

You could almost believe its possible.
Possibly at the same time as an algorithm change at google,
a high PR site had copies of truncated links to my stories.
Google dumped all my links and used the new truncated links instead, which of course had zero PR and my traffic went to almost zero. That was May 28th

Its been a terrible two weeks, but it forced me to review the URL structure, clean up several things, handle canonicalization, build and automate a sitemap and review external links.

So if you have this problem, review your site. If you don't see any issues - like the possibility of there being more than one URL for a page of content - see if anyone here has a good idea - if not, then go to the google forums and set out your evidence there and hope a google person will check it out.

- you'll have to tell them your URL.

I hope thats not what caused my problem!

Get SEOElite, as SEO suggested earlier.
It will save you a lot of time.
Make sure you set it not to hammer the search engines.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by z28com

Thanks, but I read that thread. Most of the posts on there were from people who did not believe it could happen. ... My client has had proof that negative SEO works.

If you indeed read said thread carefully, completely, and with an open mind, then you will have noted that anecdotal evidence suffices to prove nothing; neither does the mere appearance of correlation.

Originally Posted by z28com

Their links shot up after the links were removed.

Links inter-dependent? The meaning here is far from clear.

Originally Posted by z28com

I am looking for software that can automatically spider all of the in-bound links and determine what links or domains are banned by Google.

Such does not exist. Spidering is the process of building a map of related pages by way of their outbound links (OBLs.) That SEs are able to provide any information re. IBLs for a given site owes to, and is limited by, the extent to which they have indexed other sites which contain OBLs pointing to the site in question. And, such data are not publicly reported in full by any SE.

[newsblaze]

Originally Posted by jglogau

Hi:
If you feel you can't get an audience I will try to help. This is more then a single client problem. Contact me at Internet Reputation Management
Jordan

Hey Jordan, how come your site has been terminated?

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by jglogau

Hi:
Contact me at Internet Reputation Management

Why does this link redirect to Insider.com ?

[kevsta]

and the "mom and pop banned sites" post is a bot too before too many more people reply to it.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by benc007

I have noticed some key pages that have been PR4+ for the past 7 years drop to being a grey bar (PR 0). I am not sure how my competitors are doing this? Can anyone help?

There are a lot of reasons a site can loose PR.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by kevsta

and the "mom and pop banned sites" post is a bot too before too many more people reply to it.

A post here that has already been purged?

[edhan]

I still do not think inbound links will cause this to happen. Sometimes it may be due to the site itself instead. For related inbound links, it will help to boost the site ranking but unrelated links are likely to be ignored and forgotten.

[kronikmedia]

I am not sure if bad links in themselves can be solely responsible for significant drop in search engine ranking of a website, I am fully aware that linking to too many poor quality websites will not improve the search engine ranking for a website. I also believe that ran and position on search engines can drop a little due to bad links. However I doubt that ranking will fall 300 positions due to this.

In any case raising this issue via Google's webmaster control panel seems to be the best solution to fix this issue of you think that is a result of a negative search engine optimisation campaign by someone.

[Terry Van Horne]

IMO it's impossible to prove anything so why the obsession with proof! 90% of the time even if you find proof it's not conclusive or at best it is anecdotal. That is the nature of the beast always has been and always will be. When you ask for proof IMO, you only show your inexperience.

When you wait for proof then... by the time you act on it it's a technique all the others in need of proof are doing it as well, so... you are just one of many others following the herd. Every new technique that I've seen came from innovative thinking not waiting for proof. I was using hyphens in domains and filenames as a delimiter years before Matt Cutts said they were a delimiter. I continued to use them even when some were saying it was spam. Why? Simple, I saw enough anecdotal proof to indicate it was a delimiter and I saw no indication it was spam. So... all the gurus saying it looked spammy in some ways told me I was on to something that others wished I wouldn't use. My not needing proof meant I was at least 5 yrs ahead of those who needed proof!

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by Terry Van Horne

IMO it's impossible to prove anything so why the obsession with proof! 90% of the time even if you find proof it's not conclusive or at best it is anecdotal. That is the nature of the beast always has been and always will be.

Does PR Sculpting Work?

Anecdotal evidence is simply that, anecdotal. It's the kind of evidence put forward by those who believe in alien abductions. What you yourself observe is not anecdotal; what you tell us you saw, without showing to us, is.

There have been those who claim to be able of provide proofs, but have declined to so do. Why should we assume them to be correct rather than those who hold otherwise.

If a "proof" is not conclusive, then it does not proof that it itself cannot be false; and, if it can be false, then is cannot be taken to be true, and proves nothing.

Make what you will of perceived correlations; but, never take such as being proof of anything other than that something happened. Likewise, do not take the claims of another as empirical evidence.

[dburdon]

Seems the easiest way to negatively manipulate your competitors websites would be to buy a pay per post blogging service on their behalf.

Read how GoCompare.com were banned - well moved down 60 rankings.
Gocompare Blog: Why Google Penalised Gocompare.com

[DesignsOnline]

One of my clients has a simple Essex to London airport Chauffeur service website. Alan's Airport Cars - chauffeur driven luxury Southend, Rayleigh - Gatwick, Heathrow, Stansted

It has been dropped from Google completely since someone else pointed their domain

Alan's Airport Cars - chauffeur driven luxury Southend, Rayleigh - Gatwick, Heathrow, Stansted (filitheyo.com)
and
Alan's Airport Cars - chauffeur driven luxury Southend, Rayleigh - Gatwick, Heathrow, Stansted (alomair.net)

to his website. We suspect that one of his local competitors who is a dirty underhanded individual has done this, but cant prove anything. As Alan depended primarily on his website to bring in his clients he has struggled since Google dumped his site out of the SERPS.

They were emailed explaining everything but nothing was ever done about it.
I think that this is fairly strong evidence that others can get you banned.

Anyone know what can be done about it, we have tried contacting the owners of the domains, but never recieved a reply from them. (No supprise there...)

Joe

[wesker]

try this tool Bad Neighborhood - Link Exchange Tool

[janeth]

Originally Posted by DesignsOnline

One of my clients has a simple Essex to London airport Chauffeur service website. Alan's Airport Cars - chauffeur driven luxury Southend, Rayleigh - Gatwick, Heathrow, Stansted

It has been dropped from Google completely since someone else pointed their domain

Alan's Airport Cars - chauffeur driven luxury Southend, Rayleigh - Gatwick, Heathrow, Stansted (filitheyo.com)
and
Alan's Airport Cars - chauffeur driven luxury Southend, Rayleigh - Gatwick, Heathrow, Stansted (alomair.net)

to his website. We suspect that one of his local competitors who is a dirty underhanded individual has done this, but cant prove anything. As Alan depended primarily on his website to bring in his clients he has struggled since Google dumped his site out of the SERPS.

They were emailed explaining everything but nothing was ever done about it.
I think that this is fairly strong evidence that others can get you banned.

Anyone know what can be done about it, we have tried contacting the owners of the domains, but never recieved a reply from them. (No supprise there...)

Joe

Duplicating a website will not get it banned. Google will take the site with the highest pr and list it. But why not just redesign the site and change the text around?

[DesignsOnline]

Originally Posted by janeth

Duplicating a website will not get it banned. Google will take the site with the highest pr and list it. But why not just redesign the site and change the text around?

Hi Janeth,
because the website has a static IP address and the other domains have pointed to the IP address of his website. (I think, or else they have set up domain forwarding to point to his domain.)
Either way it has resulted in his site being penalised severely.

[snowflakegirl]

I subscribe to Google Alerts for my keywords and domain names. Every now and then I receive an alert that contains questionable sites that are listing my domains as part of their pages, links or keywords. Some of the websites are porn, or virus sites. Every time I learn about any questionable site linking to mine through the Alert subscription, I report the alert to Google Abuse (abuse@google.com) I've done this many, many, many times and my PR has never suffered, plus the bad site gets banned sooner. Why lose sleep over this non-issue?

[janeth]

Originally Posted by DesignsOnline

Hi Janeth,
because the website has a static IP address and the other domains have pointed to the IP address of his website. (I think, or else they have set up domain forwarding to point to his domain.)
Either way it has resulted in his site being penalised severely.

I'm missing something because all I see are duplicate sites?

[DesignsOnline]

Originally Posted by snowflakegirl

I subscribe to Google Alerts for my keywords and domain names. Every now and then I receive an alert that contains questionable sites that are listing my domains as part of their pages, links or keywords. Some of the websites are porn, or virus sites. Every time I learn about any questionable site linking to mine through the Alert subscription, I report the alert to Google Abuse (abuse@google.com) I've done this many, many, many times and my PR has never suffered, plus the bad site gets banned sooner. Why lose sleep over this non-issue?

I did send an email explainin gthe problem to the Google abuse email, and never recieved any reply.
Meanwhile the poor chap trying to earn a living as an airport chauffeur driver is still losing customers because he has dropped out of the Google listings, he was at one point getting high page 1 rankings in Google for his local area for his main keywords. Now he is nowhere to be seen, it happened overnight and we discovered that doing a search brought up the domain filitheyo.com at the exact same time as he was dropped from the serps. Today we discovered a new domain also pointed at his website and listed in Google, alomair.net

Someone is clearly playing a dirty game and using domains that were banned or associated with penalties to pull Alans website off of the search engines.

[DesignsOnline]

Originally Posted by janeth

I'm missing something because all I see are duplicate sites?

They are not duplicate sites they are someone elses domains pointed at Alans website, and registered in Google as such. I tested this by changing some text to Alans website and testing their domains in a browser instantly, and the changed text was showing.

I found the domain filitheyo.com on a banned domain list once when I was searching for an answer to what was going on. I cant remove Alans websites association with these domains. If I change the static IP address they will simply point their domain to the new IP address.

What can we do?

[janeth]

Originally Posted by DesignsOnline

Hi Janeth,
because the website has a static IP address and the other domains have pointed to the IP address of his website. (I think, or else they have set up domain forwarding to point to his domain.)
Either way it has resulted in his site being penalised severely.

The site does not appear to have hardly any links from other sites pointing at it.

If it was me and I was making a living from the site I would have already of changed the design, text and would be getting some backlinks to the site.

I would be willing to bet I could make the site start ranking and getting traffic in a months time without even touching the site.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by DesignsOnline

Hi Janeth,
because the website has a static IP address and the other domains have pointed to the IP address of his website. (I think, or else they have set up domain forwarding to point to his domain.)
Either way it has resulted in his site being penalised severely.

It looks like the same content has been used by every website in the business. There is nothing unique about the site and I can understand why it would not be showing up in the search engines.

The site owner needs to get serious about his website if he wants the search engines to rank him.

Just my two cents and I do not mean to sound harsh.

[Terry Van Horne]

Originally Posted by janeth

The site does not appear to have hardly any links from other sites pointing at it.

If it was me and I was making a living from the site I would have already of changed the design, text and would be getting some backlinks to the site.

I would be willing to bet I could make the site start ranking and getting traffic in a months time without even touching the site.

I'll bet not on that IP address as domains are eventually tracked by Google to some IP address or virtual host/network. That's why they look at domains.

DesignsOnline, If you are updating your site and it is also upadating the other domains out of your control then... you will always look guilty! IMO, they are either tracking your site and instantly update their site when you update yours or ya' been hacked and they are doing something really naughty! No amount of grovellin at WebmasterCentral fixes that.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by Terry Van Horne

I'll bet not on that IP address as domains are eventually tracked by Google to some IP address or virtual host/network. That's why they look at domains.

DesignsOnline, If you are updating your site and it is also upadating the other domains out of your control then... you will always look guilty! IMO, they are either tracking your site and instantly update their site when you update yours or ya' been hacked and they are doing something really naughty! No amount of grovellin at WebmasterCentral fixes that.

He never said those would change when he updated and even if it did it would not matter.

[kgun]

I see these possibilities:

1. WWW forwarding.
2. DNS pointers.
3. Redirects.
4. Instantly copying content (I doubt that).

[AVC]

There are very expensive tools that use proprietary technology that will tell you every site linking to you and the anchor text used to create the links.

websiteceo.com/links.htm

seoadministrator.com/link-popularity-checker.html

weblinkseo.com/seo-software/backlink-analysis.html

[DesignsOnline]

Originally Posted by AVC

There are very expensive tools that use proprietary technology that will tell you every site linking to you and the anchor text used to create the links.

This guy is just a small Husband and wife team, and doesnt have loads of money to throw at it.
So I guess no one can suggest any way of resolving this then?

[AVC]

Well, that is a hole he is in I guess.

I had one company give me a demo on some very expensive software that cost big money by the month and this application would tell everything going on in real time.

[kgun]

Ok even if it may be selfpromotion:

1. Click second link in my signature.
2. Site navigate to IT + Marketing.
3. Click "links" in upper right corner.
4. Page search (CTRL + F)
5. Link analysis

[AVC]

Just watch your rankings and backlinks, check them in Yahoo, that is your best bet.

If you see something fishy going on send Google a note if you are not ranked any longer asking why, with their re-inclusion program they will most likely tell you the reason you were de-indexed, if you correct the problems or someone did something malicious to you they will take care of it most likely.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by DesignsOnline

Hi Janeth,
because the website has a static IP address and the other domains have pointed to the IP address of his website. (I think, or else they have set up domain forwarding to point to his domain.)
Either way it has resulted in his site being penalised severely.

This, however, is distinctly different from IBLs.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by DesignsOnline

So I guess no one can suggest any way of resolving this then?

I told you how to fix it.

[SEO]

Originally Posted by DesignsOnline

They are not duplicate sites they are someone elses domains pointed at Alans website, and registered in Google as such. I tested this by changing some text to Alans website and testing their domains in a browser instantly, and the changed text was showing.

I found the domain filitheyo.com on a banned domain list once when I was searching for an answer to what was going on. I cant remove Alans websites association with these domains. If I change the static IP address they will simply point their domain to the new IP address.

What can we do?

OK...

Point No. 1:
They are not redirecting to your client's site... They are duplicate sites... (there is no redirect - no meta refresh - the browser continually points to their domain without redirect - your client's site is also not "framed" in their site - they are duplicate sites).



EDIT: All of the domains have the same IP Address: 216.26.144.193
I would be asking Alan or your domain host what is going on...

Definitely an inside job...



Point No. 2:
Your client's Site IS NOT BANNED BY GOOGLE:
site:http://www.alansairportcars.co.uk/ - Google Search
(The "contact" page has PR1).


Point No. 3:

Originally Posted by janeth

The site does not appear to have hardly any links from other sites pointing at it.

... Practically no offpage SEO is the main reason for your poor rankings ...



NOTE: The contact details for the other domain registrants are found below (including contact phone No):

Filitheyo.com - Fili They O

Alomair.net - Aloma Ir


Here is another one that you may have missed:

Alan's Airport Cars - chauffeur driven luxury Southend, Rayleigh - Gatwick, Heathrow, Stansted

Alansairporttaxis.co.uk - Alan Sair Port Taxis


I suggest you give the registrant's a call and find out what is going on...


Then get some decent backlinks to the site....!

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by DesignsOnline

We suspect that one of his local competitors who is a dirty underhanded individual has done this, but cant prove anything.

They were emailed explaining everything but nothing was ever done about it.

Anyone know what can be done about it, we have tried contacting the owners of the domains, but never recieved a reply from them. (No supprise there...)

Joe

Never jump to conclusions.

This board is fighting me, doing nothing when I attempt to submit this post. I'm going to try splitting it up unto smaller pieces and see if that works

================================================== ====================

WHOIS data for filitheyo.com

Registrant:
IMPEX PTE LTD
Ma.Kaaminee magu
MALE', MV 2003
MV

Administrative Contact :
Shiyam, Ali
majdy@aaa.com.mv
AAA Travel and Tours Pvt Ltd
STO Trade Center
Male'', MV 2002
MV
Phone: 960316131
Fax: 960331726

Technical Contact :
Control, Network
domainreg@halfpricehosting.com
137 W. Muhammad Ali, Suite I
Louisville, KY 40202
US
Phone: 800-939-8188
Fax: 888-939-8188

Record expires on 26-Aug-2011
Record created on 26-Aug-2000
Database last updated on 24-Apr-2008

Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.MYDNSSERVER.COM
NS2.MYDNSSERVER.COM

Current Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, LLC.

IP Address: 216.26.144.193 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)

IP Location: US(UNITED STATES)-GEORGIAWINTERVILLE

Record Type: Domain Name
Server Type: IIS 6
Lock Status: clientTransferProhibited
Web Site Status: Active

DMOZ no listings

Y! Directory: see listings

Secure: No

E-commerce: No
Traffic Ranking: Not available
Data as of: 14-Jun-2005

ARIN data for filitheyo.com

216.26.144.193
Record Type: IP Address
Peak 10, Inc. PEAK10-LOU-BLK-1 (NET-216-26-128-0-1)
216.26.128.0 - 216.26.191.255
Empire Data Technologies P10-D81A-9000-24 (NET-216-26-144-0-1)
216.26.144.0 - 216.26.144.255

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by DesignsOnline

Joe

2nd installment

================================================== ====================

WHOIS data for alomair.net


Registrant:

DR. AL-OMAIR , SALEH
P.O.BOX 25702
RIYADH, NO STATE 99999
SA

Administrative Contact :
BARAKAT DR., Fouad
dr.fouad@barakat.de
ALLENSTEINER STR. 1
KARLSRUHE, NO STATE 76139
DE
Phone: +49-721-357583
Fax: +49-721-357584

Technical Contact :
BARAKAT DR., Fouad
dr.fouad@BARAKAT.DE
ALLENSTEINER STR. 1
KARLSRUHE, NO STATE 76139
DE
Phone: +49-721-357583
Fax: +49-721-357584

Record expires on 06-Jul-2011
Record created on 06-Jul-1999
Database last updated on 22-Jun-2006

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.MYDNSSERVER.COM
NS2.MYDNSSERVER.COM

Current Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, LLC.

IP Address: 216.26.144.193 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)

IP Location: US(UNITED STATES)-GEORGIAWINTERVILLE

Record Type: Domain Name
Server Type: IIS 6
Lock Status: clientTransferProhibited
Web Site Status: Active

DMOZ no listings

Y! Directory: see listings

Secure: No

E-commerce: No
Traffic Ranking: Not available
Data as of: 14-Jun-2005

ARIN data for alomair.net

216.26.144.193

Record Type: IP Address
Peak 10, Inc. PEAK10-LOU-BLK-1 (NET-216-26-128-0-1)
216.26.128.0 - 216.26.191.255
Empire Data Technologies P10-D81A-9000-24 (NET-216-26-144-0-1)
216.26.144.0 - 216.26.144.255

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by DesignsOnline

Joe

3rd and final installment

================================================== ====================


Note that these 2 sites are registered to 2 different parties, in different countries, with all

relevant dates re, registration being different. The only commonality is that both are registered
with Network Solutions, and that NS's data for each are identical, including the "As of Date"
of 14JUN2005.

As the IP Address 216.26.144.193 leads to your client site, with that IP Address being assigned
to Empire Data Technologies, it appears that they are the host for your client's site. Correct?

On the surface, it appears that the problems lies with Network Solutions' Name Servers. I
suggest that you, either directly or via Empire Data Tech., contact NS to resolve this problem.