Are links from blog posts worth the effort?

[inertia]

I am involved with link building for a couple of clients and regularly post on industry blogs on their behalf. This does bring them some direct traffic but it's minimal. I am analysing whether the time spent by me would be better spent on content creation...

Now most blog comments have nofollow added to them is posting on blogs worth it? I know i will get a chorus of "do it for the traffic" but to be honest i have seen very little traffic from the blogs which i post on. This raises the question of whether it is worth the time to do this?

Do people think that the nofollow attribute completely discounts the link or does it just stop PR transfer? Does no follow link text still have an effect on SERPs and semantics?

Also, what (if any) is the difference between rel="nofollow" and rel="external nofollow"?

Any advice would be appreciated.

[MJW]

Does no follow link text still have an effect on SERPs and semantics?

From robotstxt.org, Source.

The rel="nofollow" is an attribute you can set on an HTML <a> link tag, invented by Google, and adopted by others. Those links won't get any credit when Google ranks websites in the search results, thus removing the main incentive behind blog comment spammers robots.

See Preventing comment spam on the Official Google Blog.

From that description it sounds like it only affects the ranking, and the Google robot may still follow the links and index them. If so, it is different from the robots meta tag NOFOLLOW semantics.

From the official Google Blog, Source.

From now on, when Google sees the attribute (rel="nofollow") on hyperlinks, those links won't get any credit when we rank websites in our search results. This isn't a negative vote for the site where the comment was posted; it's just a way to make sure that spammers get no benefit from abusing public areas like blog comments, trackbacks, and referrer lists.

I think it's safe to say 'nofollow links' have 0 effect on SERP's.

Hope that helps,

MJW.

[MJW]

I think it's safe to say 'nofollow links' have 0 effect on SERP's.

At least for Google.

[inertia]

Originally Posted by MJW

The rel="nofollow" is an attribute you can set on an HTML <a> link tag, invented by Google, and adopted by others. Those links won't get any credit when Google ranks websites in the search results, thus removing the main incentive behind blog comment spammers robots.

I appreciate that the nofollow tag was invented to stop people like me doing what im doing but what is the difference between me doing it for a company instead of them doing it themselves? I am adding a relevant comment on the blog post and adding to the discussion. I think that this deserves a followed link!

What i am a bit unclear on is the anchor text. When the link is nofollowed does the anchor text still count?

[MJW]

Originally Posted by inertia

I appreciate that the nofollow tag was invented to stop people like me doing what im doing but what is the difference between me doing it for a company instead of them doing it themselves? I am adding a relevant comment on the blog post and adding to the discussion. I think that this deserves a followed link!

What i am a bit unclear on is the anchor text. When the link is nofollowed does the anchor text still count?

Interesting question, when searching for an answer Google spat out this page.
On the page you will find a test conducted by a person asking the same question as you are.

Test Results:
Google does not value the anchor of nofollow links.
Yahoo doesn't value them eather.
MSN is too weak.

I don't take this person's opinion as an authority on the matter,
but to me the test seems convincing enough to not waste time by running my own tests.

[john.lewis]

Originally Posted by inertia

I am involved with link building for a couple of clients and regularly post on industry blogs on their behalf. This does bring them some direct traffic but it's minimal. I am analysing whether the time spent by me would be better spent on content creation...

Now most blog comments have nofollow added to them is posting on blogs worth it? I know i will get a chorus of "do it for the traffic" but to be honest i have seen very little traffic from the blogs which i post on. This raises the question of whether it is worth the time to do this?

Do people think that the nofollow attribute completely discounts the link or does it just stop PR transfer? Does no follow link text still have an effect on SERPs and semantics?

Also, what (if any) is the difference between rel="nofollow" and rel="external nofollow"?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Yes it is..

[inertia]

Originally Posted by MJW

Interesting question, when searching for an answer Google spat out this page.
On the page you will find a test conducted by a person asking the same question as you are.



I don't take this person's opinion as an authority on the matter,
but to me the test seems convincing enough to not waste time by running my own tests.

Hhhm, its an interesting article. If a bit floored! Why did he write the "unique keyword" on the page in real text?

I would do it more like this.

• Create a new orphaned page. Ill make it appear to be an average page - with metas, structured textual content (but with no mention of the blog anchor text) and outward bound links.
• Start dropping comment links with a made up name like "professor van billy winkle" - no results with speech marks.
• Start adding links to forums using that anchor text and see what happens!

There is no need for the site to be listed before hand coz it will tell us more if the nofollow links ARE THE ONLY route to the page.

I'll do it tonight and let everyone know of developments. Any input welcome!?

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by inertia

I appreciate that the nofollow tag was invented to stop people like me doing what im doing but what is the difference between me doing it for a company instead of them doing it themselves? I am adding a relevant comment on the blog post and adding to the discussion. I think that this deserves a followed link!

What i am a bit unclear on is the anchor text. When the link is nofollowed does the anchor text still count?

The PR passed by an OBL is purely a function of 1) the amount of PR available for the referring page to pass, and 2) the number of OBLs on that page that are "followed."

If the link is "no followed," then that link has no value beyond the traffic that it may generate.

[murphypj]

I take on board all of the previous messages, including those with links to 'definitive' statements from Google sources.

My own experience is that I have a guitar chords website, I work out new songs on a regular basis, post them to my ( Blogger ) blog - which gives me an opportunity to be a bit more verbose, talk about the band, their latest album, include links to their official website etc..

Then I add the songs to my website.

Generally, the blog post is listed top 5 in Google search for 'artistname' 'song title' within 24 hours. As the Blog doesn't actually contain any guitarist resource, just a link back to the website page with the 'new' song, the effect is the same as if my website had top ranking for the user's search.

When I add a new artist to my website portfolio, usually when I have about 6 songs for the artist, it takes about one or two weeks for my site to reach top 5 rankings for 'guitar chords artistname' - thanks to the juice from the previous blog postings. Plus the blog posts also continue to feature, usually top 10.

I guess my point is that using the blog as a vehicle to write in more detail about what is on your site, and link to the site pages with the actual content, is a reasonable way to deploy a website and blog without competing with yourself, and giving the SE spiders, and your target audience, more textual content on the topics you are aiming to be authoritive on.

PJ

[marcel]

Don't do it for the Pagerank. PR can't count on PR. Do it for the targeted traffic and SEO results.
It will help. Links within forums, blog comments, blogs and articles do help. Afterall, howelse will Google do it's measurement. Just don't abuse the system, or your client will pay dearly with less SEO traffic.

A mix of nofollow and dofollow links would be healthy. Too many dofollow links will say something is fishy.

Jut my opinion...

[watercrazed]

I think your first question has been answered "no follow= no PR effect"

I do not think more content is the answer, it rarely generates external links unless you are in a writer, tech or design field, like the billion bloggers blogging about blogging.

As to what next, one there is a large do follow movement in the blog community, check their comments using one of the browser extension that highlight no follow links. If do follow use them.

Many blogger are open to guest posts with bio and links; might be 2 or 3 times the work of a good comment but I think it can be worth it.

[marcel]

Originally Posted by marcel

PR can't count on PR. Do it for the targeted traffic and SEO results.

Jut my opinion...

Hmm... I meant to say "You can't count on Google PR"
Google PR it's worth bothering about it.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by inertia

I would do it more like this.

• Create a new orphaned page. Ill make it appear to be an average page - with metas, structured textual content (but with no mention of the blog anchor text) and outward bound links.
• Start dropping comment links with a made up name like "professor van billy winkle" - no results with speech marks.
• Start adding links to forums using that anchor text and see what happens!

Create a new orphaned page? Good way to go into supplementals hell.

Start adding links in forums? I hope the forums will be relevant to your customer's web site theme.

Last tip: Don't be unethical. It is not fair towards your customers.

[MJW]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

Create a new orphaned page? Good way to go into supplementals hell.

Do you think that if the links on the orphaned page have nofollow tags, a search engine still sees it as a doorway page and cast it into "supplementals hell"?

Just wondering.

[marcel]

Originally Posted by MJW

Do you think that if the links on the orphaned page have nofollow tags, a search engine still sees it as a doorway page and cast it into "supplementals hell"?

Just wondering.

The only way to really know is to test it. Opinions hardly matter now. Even SEO facts have to be retested every 6 months. That's why I say, everything other than Adwords is Black Hat. Again, my opinion.

Whatever you do, do it in moderation ( if it's very Black Hat) and make sure it provides a return on your investment.

[MJW]

Originally Posted by marcel

The only way to really know is to test it. Opinions hardly matter now. Even SEO facts have to be retested every 6 months. That's why I say, everything other than Adwords is Black Hat. Again, my opinion.

With search engine algorithms being secret, opinions from people working in SEO are all the more valuable.
Anything except Adwords is black hat? There are surely more white hat ways to practice SEO than Adwords alone?

I'll do it tonight and let everyone know of developments. Any input welcome!?

Anyway, how is the test coming along Inertia?

[inertia]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

Create a new orphaned page? Good way to go into supplementals hell.

Start adding links in forums? I hope the forums will be relevant to your customer's web site theme.

Last tip: Don't be unethical. It is not fair towards your customers.

I think you've confused by what I'm going to do. I'm going to test the capacity of anchor text in no follow links by creating an orphaned page on my own site and linking to it using the obscure anchor text from nofollow comments. Then ill see if it ranks for that phrase thus proving that the anchor text has been noted by G.
The anchor text I'm going to use is so unique a supplemental result will return anyway

Just to clear up... i never post irrelevant forum/article posts for my clients. Ive seen the effects!

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by inertia

I think you've confused by what I'm going to do. I'm going to test the capacity of anchor text in no follow links by creating an orphaned page on my own site and linking to it using the obscure anchor text from nofollow comments. Then ill see if it ranks for that phrase thus proving that the anchor text has been noted by G.
The anchor text I'm going to use is so unique a supplemental result will return anyway

Oh, I am sorry buddy. Then I really misunderstood what you are planning.

[inertia]

Just to update.
Ive added an orphaned page to my site and posted 5 posts on various scientific blogs all using the link text "professor van billy winkle". Ill check at the end of the day and let you know what i see!!

This page shows up so far!

[inertia]

2 hours later and one of the blog links has been picked up. This suggests that the orphaned page will appear as well, if Google had followed the link and cached the link text? Its not looking good then!

[chrisJumbo]

With Blog Commenting it just takes time (in my experience). Most of the blogs have nofollow, but as someone else alluded to there is a movement to have blogs change their ways. There is a WordPress plugin that allows for this. We installed it on our blog.

Even so, we do receive traffic from other blogs that we have left comments on. You can also boost this possibility by giving some link love to those blogs either through your own blog or using sites like Stumble, Furl, Digg, etc.

What comes around goes around. As we've given out some link love, some has been given to us.

[inertia]

Originally Posted by chrisJumbo

Even so, we do receive traffic from other blogs that we have left comments on. You can also boost this possibility by giving some link love to those blogs either through your own blog or using sites like Stumble, Furl, Digg, etc.

Some good advice chris. This is something that i should be thinking about more. rep added!

[chrisJumbo]

Thank you.

[T-G]

2 hours later and one of the blog links has been picked up. This suggests that the orphaned page will appear as well, if Google had followed the link and cached the link text? Its not looking good then

Great experiment, as a an SEO ammature with mixed success, I have been wondering if I should be investing time blogging away, can't wait for the final results!

[Janna122003]

no follow links are still indexed by search engine. No follow is useless if your goal is PR juice.

[inertia]

Well, day two and Google has picked up 3 of the pages, but not the one we want:

"professor van billy winkle" - Google Search

Its not looking good guys!

On another note! Something that chrisJumbo said yesterday had me thinking...
Does anyone know if there is an option on blogging platforms to make links do follow, or are they usually hard coded in as no follows? If (like Chris suggests) you "give a bit of link love" to a blog then wouldn't it be reasonable to contact the blog owner and ask him to make your link do follow in exchange?

[davidweb]

Originally Posted by Janna122003

no follow links are still indexed by search engine. No follow is useless if your goal is PR juice.

Let us quote this way

"IF YOUR GOAL IS PR THEN YOUR RANKINGS WILL BE USELESS"

PR is not related to rankings, therefore I would prefer to concentrate on the actual rankings. As far as nofollow links are concerned, It looks like they can help you gain rankings on both Google and Yahoo. However one should make sure not to place sitewide links on BLOGs. Having several sitewide links from various blogs could help to increase your page rank, but it could suck away your trust rank.

Make sure that your linking is natural ( regardless of whether follow or nofollow links) and it shouldn't follow any predefined pattern . This will increase your rankings and eventually help you generate more clicks.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by davidweb

Let us quote this way

PR is not related to rankings, therefore I would prefer to concentrate on the actual rankings. As far as nofollow links are concerned, It looks like they can help you gain rankings on both Google and Yahoo. However one should make sure not to place sitewide links on BLOGs. Having several sitewide links from various blogs could help to increase your page rank, but it could suck away your trust rank.

Make sure that your linking is natural ( regardless of whether follow or nofollow links) and it shouldn't follow any predefined pattern . This will increase your rankings and eventually help you generate more clicks.

Very funny DavidWeb. When your post arrived in my mailbox, I was reading this article: http://www.michellemacphearson.com/d...s-count-redux/

I recommend everyone to read it.

[MJW]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

Very funny DavidWeb. When your post arrived in my mailbox, I was reading this article: http://www.michellemacphearson.com/d...s-count-redux/

I recommend everyone to read it.

I've just read the article, I can honestly say I'm confused.
If nofollow links do have value, then the statement by Google I quoted above is either false or outdated,
or I'm missing something here?

I suppose there is good chance blog posting is an effective way of improving a link profile, nofollow link or not.

[inertia]

Ive read it as well. It basically says that (given time) my orphaned page will appear for the keyword. Im not concurring just yet!

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by inertia

Well, day two and Google has picked up 3 of the pages, but not the one we want:

"professor van billy winkle" - Google Search

Its not looking good guys!

On another note! Something that chrisJumbo said yesterday had me thinking...
Does anyone know if there is an option on blogging platforms to make links do follow, or are they usually hard coded in as no follows? If (like Chris suggests) you "give a bit of link love" to a blog then wouldn't it be reasonable to contact the blog owner and ask him to make your link do follow in exchange?

The blogging software being used by any particular host may or may not have an explicit option for disabling "nofollow;" absent such, there are a number of plug-ins and manual hacks that can be employed for that purpose.

However, I am not immediately aware of any that provide for control at the individual user level; i.e., "nofollow" ON/OFF seems to be applied at a global level. If you'd like to research this for yourself, you might begin at turn off nofollow blog - Google Search .

[Webnauts]

If you are using Wordpress and you want comment links to be followed here is an excellent plugin: DoFollow (WP Plugin) - Kimmo Suominen

[chrisJumbo]

WebNauts, good article. Certainly causes confusion. Probably too many variables to try to comprehend just how much value the nofollow has. A lot of it may depend on the trust the site using the nofollow links has.

Inertia, as deepsand indicated, I'm not aware of any blogging software that allows you to edit the nofollow on a single-comment basis. There are lots of plugins and tutorials for how to remove it site wide.

MJW, what Google puts out in writing as to its intentions may be different than what they implement if the goal was to scare people into marking their paid links. However, I suspect (don't have the time to test) that a lot also probably depends on the competitiveness of the Keywords. nofollow links for very competitive link text probably don't get your site much juice.

Frankly, I don't worry about it too much one way or another. If I think my comment can add something to the discussion on the blog, I leave a comment. That being said, I did want to encourage more people to leave comments on our blog so I added the plugin to remove the nofollow (seemed easier and quicker than hand editing the php).

[inertia]

Cheers for the link webnauts.

So the plan now is:

• find a relevant blog
• post a quality comment which encourages a conversation to grow
• contact the blog owner and point out how great you are for their blog
• send them the link webnauts posted with a big old wink, wink, nudge, nudge!

The problem with this tactic is, most blog owners (correct me if I'm wrong) don't have a clue what nofollow is, so persuading them to remove it might be a little tricky! It sounds quite time consuming as well!

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by inertia

Cheers for the link webnauts.

So the plan now is:

• find a relevant blog
• post a quality comment which encourages a conversation to grow
• contact the blog owner and point out how great you are for their blog
• send them the link webnauts posted with a big old wink, wink, nudge, nudge!

The problem with this tactic is, most blog owners (correct me if I'm wrong) don't have a clue what nofollow is, so persuading them to remove it might be a little tricky! It sounds quite time consuming as well!

- find a relevant blog - I agree!

- post a quality comment which encourages a conversation to grow - I agree!

- contact the blog owner and point out how great you are for their blog - I would not. I would point out how cool his post was (if it really was).

- send them the link webnauts posted with a big old wink, wink, nudge, nudge! I would not. I rather would add a button/banner on my blog which you can find here: U Comment, I Follow Badges | blogsthatfollow.com

[incrediblehelp]

FYI another great post on nofollow crap:

PageRank Sculpting - Ok Or Penalty Material? 10 SEO Experts Respond. » UK Search Engine Marketing

[inertia]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

contact the blog owner and point out how great you are for their blog - I would not. I would point out how cool his post was (if it really was).

Aaar! The stealth approach, I like it! Massage their ego for a bit then hit them with the question!

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

FYI another great post on nofollow crap:

PageRank Sculpting - Ok Or Penalty Material? 10 SEO Experts Respond. » UK Search Engine Marketing

First thanks for the heads up Jaan! Maybe we both are not known as experts, but we both were from the first beginning against the internal site PR sculpting using the nofollow attribute. Or?

I am just asking myself all the damn time bro: Being famous means the same time that someone is an expert?

By the way I must add something to the site internal PR sculpting. It is OK if needed, which means if a site navigation is screwed up, but definitely not with using the "nofollow" attribute. There are several legitimate techniques to do that without that bloody condom. We already talked about that. Correct?

End of story!

[incrediblehelp]

Sure John. I would just rather fix the navigation then band-aid over it.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

FYI another great post on nofollow crap:

PageRank Sculpting - Ok Or Penalty Material? 10 SEO Experts Respond. » UK Search Engine Marketing

It looks like a lot of SEO experts use the nofollow.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by janeth

It looks like a lot of SEO experts use the nofollow.

Experts?

Experts DON'T use "nofollow" for internal site PR sculpting. But I assume you most probably met famous SEOs claiming to be or would like to be experts.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

Experts?

Experts DON'T use "nofollow" for internal site PR sculpting. But I assume you most probably met famous SEOs claiming to be or would like to be experts.

Do you have a list of the experts so I don't make that mistake again?

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by janeth

Do you have a list of the experts so I don't make that mistake again?

Sister, experts are guys that do not do such mistakes. You can be sure that alone here at WPW are SEOs that are more experts than those famous SEOs.

If you want to be perceived from the public as an expert, you need to write a lot of articles or tutorials, crappy or not does make any difference, join SEO conferences, hand around there with search engines employees or guys being called experts, interviewing or filming them, and there you are: You are an expert.

Such persons are experts, but for selling themselves and creating an image, even if they do not really have a background.

Just my observations since I am involved in SEO.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

Sister, experts are guys that do not do such mistakes. You can be sure that alone here at WPW are SEOs that are more experts than those famous SEOs.

If you want to be perceived from the public as an expert, you need to write a lot of articles or tutorials, crappy or not does make any difference, join SEO conferences, hand around there with search engines employees or guys being called experts, interviewing or filming them, and there you are: You are an expert.

Such persons are experts, but for selling themselves and creating an image, even if they do not really have a background.

Just my observations since I am involved in SEO.

I'll just stick to ranking my sites and making money from home.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by janeth

I'll just stick to ranking my sites and making money from home.

I cannot imagine anything better than that. Especially if I had in my back yard a swimming pool.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

I cannot imagine anything better than that. Especially if I had in my back yard a swimming pool.

The pool is in the front yard and is a bit of a pain due to the dog spending more time in it than anyone else.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by janeth

The pool is in the front yard and is a bit of a pain due to the dog spending more time in it than anyone else.

But, dogs are people too.

And, I suspect that you share that view, or there wouldn't be a dog in your pool!

[janeth]

Originally Posted by deepsand

But, dogs are people too.

And, I suspect that you share that view, or there wouldn't be a dog in your pool!

He is still a puppy but does not mind getting wet.

manuelasue.com » Blog Archive » Swimming Dog

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by janeth

He is still a puppy but does not mind getting wet.

manuelasue.com » Blog Archive » Swimming Dog

May he be as good and faithful a friend and companion as my dogs have been to me.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by deepsand

May he be as good and faithful a friend and companion as my dogs have been to me.

I hope so, he has been a pretty good dog so far.