Key Skills a Good SEO Must Have

[caravan]

For the past few years I've become more and more interested in SEO, it's in's and out's, and all the twists and turns involved in it. As part of my job as a web designer/developer I also undertake the search engine optimisation for quite a few of our clients.

As I originate from a design/technical orientated background I therefore consider my strengths to lie in the technical aspects of on page optimisation, usability, accessibility and my understanding of off page techniques. However, I feel my weak area is in the writing and content development side of things, an area which I consider to be an important factor for a websites optimisation and continued development.

I'm therefore wondering what other people think are the key qualities/factors that make a successful seo or search engine marketeer? Should an seo worth their weight in gold have a hands on technical knowledge, or be articulate in content development/article writing, or should they have a good knowledge general marketing techniques and practices? In order to develop my seo skillset should I be worrying about refining my writing skills or focusing my energies on areas which I'm good at and sub contract out the content development to those who are specialists in this field.

[incrediblehelp]

1. Be able to code and design clean website that is easily crawled, easily accessible, have awesome usability and basic SEO techniques.
2. Create a website that can convert
3. Be able to market website through other avenues other than search engines.

[Webnauts]

I think here you can find some cool hints: Don't Hire a Butcher to do a Baker's Job - Search Engine Watch

[mtheory]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

1. Be able to code and design clean website that is easily crawled, easily accessible, have awesome usability and basic SEO techniques.
2. Create a website that can convert
3. Be able to market website through other avenues other than search engines.

Dead on. Especially #2.

I'm always amused by people who throw away money on search placement for a half-ass site tha doesn't convert.

[red]

"In order to develop my seo skillset should I be worrying about refining my writing skills or focusing my energies on areas which I'm good at and sub contract out the content development to those who are specialists in this field."

Caravan,
This is really a valid question that I'm certain a lot of SEO's may wonder about. In my own life, with my own work I concentrate on ONLY the area I am best at and leave the other components to sub-contractors. Can I build a website? Yes I can. Do I know enough about graphics to make the site I'm building look good? Sure I do. Am I a good copywriter. I am.
These areas are not where my passion lies though and they are NOT the areas I excel in. SEO is the area that I excel in. When my company got large enough for me to stop wearing four different hats I started sub contracting the programming, graphics and most of the copy writing out.
What helps me is knowing enough about all these other areas that I can make sure the work that others do for me is done well and that the work is "clean". It also allows me to have a life.
(-:The different perspectives that the others bring to the table is also really helpful.

Let's take Starbucks as an example to follow...
Starbucks stock kept getter higher and higher year after year. They were opening several news stores every week for several years. It seemed there was nowhere to go but up. At the same time they were desperately trying to compete with Dunkin Donuts and McDonald's. They started adding all kinds of food items to the once coffee-only menu such as breakfast sandwiches, lunch sandwiches, fruits, yogurts, and salads. They now sell cd's and books in all the stores. They lost sight of their "baby" which is COFFEE.
Sales began to plummet, their stock prices dropped nearly 40%...why? Because they tried to be all things to all people. Now they have to undo everything they did.
They've decided to go back to their roots - COFFEE and a healthy dose of customer service. Bravo!
It's a lesson that was very expensive to learn and hurt their bottom line a lot as well as their shareholders and employees.
There is truly a lesson to be learned from their experience.

I learned a lesson too - Do what you love and love what you do. I "do" SEO and I'm happy to let others do all the other stuff.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by mtheory

Dead on. Especially #2.

I'm always amused by people who throw away money on search placement for a half-ass site tha doesn't convert.

This was a good one.

[exoticpublishing]

I agree w/ Red.

All the top Millionaires (offline, not online, as I don't really trust the ones online say the same thing.

Figure out what you are good at & get others to do the things you aren't good at, b/c it will take you twice as long, or longer, to do that work & your heart won't be in it b/c your mind & spirit knows its struggling.

I'm a netrepreneur, so for me I would NEVER hire someone to create the website for me AND have them do my SEO too.

In fact my current website coder is a *^%$. He thinks he knows even a smidgen about SEO & he doesn't.

He argued with me that blogs don't get picked up any faster than CMSs & he's WRONG. (this is why I'm looking for someone knew, I can't stand people who think they know it all when they don't even come close.)

I can prove that within 5 minutes of creating a post on a blog, bamm, one can search for the name in the blog & it will show up. While I haven't tested it on any of my CMSs, I doubt it would get picked up w/in 5 minutes.

I also wouldn't hire someone who knows how to do SEO to be my conversion specialist. IMO, those are 2 separate skills & I've never seen one person who can do both great.

This is exactly why I learned a long time ago to hire only one person to do one skill.

Whenever anyone tells me they can do this, that, this & that, I immediately don't trust them b/c 99% of the time, those people are lying, either to themselves or me & even if they can do the skills "okay", I'm not looking for okay, I'm looking for someone who can do GREAT!

I once had an editor who was picking cherries for a living. Had I known he was doing that, I NEVER would have hired him. It's just happened sooo many times where people online want to try & do a million things. It's sad.

Hope this helps

Thanks


Michelle

[henrysi]

The designer has some worth for sure.
The coder and the infrastructure, make it all possible.
The copywriter will write copy.

The seo though, is rightly charged with presenting a site to the foremost position on the serps; otherwise what use?

Where can the blame be passed, ultimately or euphemistacally?


Will a great image, a beautiful story or pristine code deliver one to a point where it is even in the running for a click through?

In a world where the serps are, we won't say governed but influenced by human psychology; then it is somewhat likely that "true relevance", is going to be a combination of factors. All based on human behaviour and likelihood of input.

Great copy is great, if anyone gets to read it.
Great code is great code, if anyone gets as far as it.
Great web design is designed well, and is even fantastic where a direct link is given, and followed.

Seo though, is where such above mentioned facets are brought to a global presentation level.

Other analogies;
Web design; Paint the kitchen but not the home.
Copywriting; Make the toilet, be as the kitchen.
Coding; Help us to distinguish between the two of them,

Seo; Help all of us, to know where your house is.

[mtheory]

Many afflicted with SEO OCD fail to realize that search constitutes less than 10% of all internet traffic. Their subsequent fixation drives them to put too much of their marketing budget into a venue for which they ultimately have little or no control over.

If you look at the big picture many aspects of SEO are simply a by product of a more convntional and pragmatic marketing approach.

For example, a crucial part of SEO is building quality back links. This is effectively accomplished by a well written and distributed press release.

You can spend hundreds or thousands on "professional SEO" and HOPE(there are no gaurentees) to get the biggest piece of that 10% of the internet traaffic or you could look at the bigger picture and invest that money into a well rounded and well executed marketing campaign for wich you will most likely obtain the same or better ranking than with the "SEO expert". Those rankings will also have more staying power as search engines evolve. Additionaly you will have gained extremely vaulable brand recognition you may not have gotten with the "SEO expert".

[tamecrow]

OK, I'll put my cards on the table. My strengths are in copywriting, semantic XHTML/CSS coding and search friendly design, knowing what makes sites convert, and the overall umbrella of on-page SEO. My weaknesses lay in off-site SEO. I personally prefer not to get involved with linkbuilding!

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by tamecrow

OK, I'll put my cards on the table. My strengths are in copywriting, semantic XHTML/CSS coding and search friendly design, knowing what makes sites convert, and the overall umbrella of on-page SEO. My weaknesses lay in off-site SEO. I personally prefer not to get involved with linkbuilding!

Then learn web content accessibility and you will be one of the best on page optimization too.
Take a second and look at this: SEO Is About Accessibility | iface thoughts

[dburdon]

Caravan,

first things first. SEO is a marketing discipline. Get to understand your market category. Get to know where you sit in the value chain. Understand the needs and motivations of the market participants.

I have a theory that over time SEO will segment down market categories. Finance specialists, travel specialists, retail specialists etc.

Just remember there are more bad SEOs than good ones. The good ones get to understand the conversional needs of the increased target traffic. The bad ones are still struggling with rankings.

[inertia]

Originally Posted by mtheory

Many afflicted with SEO OCD fail to realize that search constitutes less than 10% of all internet traffic.

I understood it to be a lot higher than that? Have you got any good links to confirm this?

[dburdon]

Originally Posted by mtheory

Many afflicted with SEO OCD fail to realize that search constitutes less than 10% of all internet traffic.

Show me a site with less than 50% of its traffic coming from search and I'll show you a site that's failed to reach its SEO potential. Even sites with strong branding and big offline budgets will find that people use the search box to find them. I have sites where over 90% of new visitors come from search. Cut off search and you cut off growth.

Search clicks may well represent less than 10% of page loads, but in terms of where the traffic comes from its the honey pot.

[mjancosek]

You have to agree that all comments are good. I also get amused to find people who state they can do web programmers/designers and SEO all in one low affordable rate. Then their clients get real upset when 2/3 of what is promised comes through. It really is not all the web person's fault it is also the client's fault to expect huge profits and spend nothing.

The downfall to this is that it makes the Internet Marketing for mom and pop business's look bad.

I myself use to program and do a little here and there but now focus on SEO/ Marketing. I outsource content and design. This way I can pull back and really critique on my clients behalf. I know what I am looking for and what the client is looking for and as being their marketing coordinator it is best to not have all my eggs in one basket.

So know what you are looking for, know your limitations and network so you can other talent around when you need it. When a client pays/ hires you to work for them you MUST give them 100% and look out for their better interest. Even if they do not take the advice.

[allanp73]

I've been working as a SEO for the past 10 years. I found as a SEO I must be a bit of a jack of all trades. Generally when optimizing a site I like to be brought into a project from the beginning even before the designers. I like doing the keyword research then giving a priminary SEO design from which the actual web design works from. So at first my role is planner and architech then it becomes a project manager once designers and database people get involved. I usually must manage their needs with my own in order to maintain a design which is SEO friendly. After the sites are launched my role shifts again and I become an analytics and conversion specialist. I not only look for ways to drive more traffic but look at what happens to the traffic once it is in the site. Unlike the common perception that SEO's optimize sites then walk away, live sites require a lot of my time. I become a copywriter, Internet legal expert, usability analyst, link/partner builder, and developer. SEO is not a static thing so I need to be flexible in my abilities in order best serve my clients.

[Mamoon Rashid]

Well...I dont wanna sound some arrogant ass..but frankly SEO is no rocket science...it just require some common sense...

I got sites on top of search engines for their keywords ..within 2 weeks..after their launch..and all I did was...took care of few things while doing a site... i.e.

1. Used Concise W3C compliant HTML coding ..DIV based instead of Table Based
2. Proper Use of Meta Tags
3. Title - Description and H1 copy matching (and made sure <h1> comes first in the html..or atleast in the first few lines.)

thats it!

as I said...SEO is no rocket science...just simple common sense.

and I dont do paid SEO (SEM) I only go for and recommend Organic SEO.

If anyone disagree with me...please let me know... I know I can still learn and no matter how good I am with SEO .. there's always room for improvement.

[inertia]

Originally Posted by allanp73

I've been working as a SEO for the past 10 years. I found as a SEO I must be a bit of a jack of all trades. Generally when optimizing a site I like to be brought into a project from the beginning even before the designers. I like doing the keyword research then giving a priminary SEO design from which the actual web design works from. So at first my role is planner and architech then it becomes a project manager once designers and database people get involved. I usually must manage their needs with my own in order to maintain a design which is SEO friendly. After the sites are launched my role shifts again and I become an analytics and conversion specialist. I not only look for ways to drive more traffic but look at what happens to the traffic once it is in the site. Unlike the common perception that SEO's optimize sites then walk away, live sites require a lot of my time. I become a copywriter, Internet legal expert, usability analyst, link/partner builder, and developer. SEO is not a static thing so I need to be flexible in my abilities in order best serve my clients.

Id say this was a similar description to my role. In the 3 years that Ive been doing the job (still a baby really!) i have come across a huge variety of situations from legal proceedings to video production. As an SEO i seam to be learning a little bit about an awful lot!

My skill set is an open book and i bet most of yours are to? Does everyone find that they still learn something new every day, or at least every week?

[rickanderson]

Originally Posted by exoticpublishing

I once had an editor who was picking cherries for a living. Had I known he was doing that, I NEVER would have hired him.

Michelle

I run a business and do a number of other things... that I won't get into at the moment. I am also the worlds best editor (www.worldsbesteditor.com) soon to be launched.

I guess by your logic I would make a terrible cherry picker huh?

[inertia]

Originally Posted by Mamoon Rashid

Well...I dont wanna sound some arrogant ass..but frankly SEO is no rocket science...it just require some common sense...

I got sites on top of search engines for their keywords ..within 2 weeks..after their launch..and all I did was...took care of few things while doing a site... i.e.

1. Used Concise W3C compliant HTML coding ..DIV based instead of Table Based
2. Proper Use of Meta Tags
3. Title - Description and H1 copy matching (and made sure <h1> comes first in the html..or atleast in the first few lines.)

thats it!

as I said...SEO is no rocket science...just simple common sense.

and I dont do paid SEO (SEM) I only go for and recommend Organic SEO.

If anyone disagree with me...please let me know... I know I can still learn and no matter how good I am with SEO .. there's always room for improvement.

You got the basics of on-page optimisation sorted and that must have been enough for the site to rank. I wish it was that easy for the more competitive keywords!

[MtraX]

Patience...
Strong analytical skills to understand where your traffic is coming from and where the bottlenecks are in your sites.
Copywriting skills (although being able to brief a copywriter properly is probably what most SEO's need)
Compliant coding skills.
Design skills or ability to brief design teams on layouts that maximise conversion.
It totally agree with the concept of first looking at improving the site's 'conversion ability' before doing anything else.

[rickanderson]

Originally Posted by Mamoon Rashid

SEO is no rocket science...just simple common sense...I know I can still learn and no matter how good I am with SEO .. there's always room for improvement.

Rashid

I respectfully disagree....since it's *neither* rocket science or simple common sense.....it's learned skill that takes some time to become good at.

The reason why it's not common sense is because common sense is the ability to pay attention to the obvious and as much as some people would like to claim that certain things in seo are obvious...its just not the case...it's trial and error and while some things make *more* sense than others...seo all by itself can never be considered "common sense". ...it would be like studying law for 10 yrs and then telling a student studying "intro to law" that such and such is "common sense". Funny how it can take up to a decade to acquire this so-called common sense.

zen master archers have a saying: "it takes 10 yrs to get to the first rung"

Regards
Rick

[Mamoon Rashid]

Originally Posted by inertia

You got the basics of on-page optimisation sorted and that must have been enough for the site to rank. I wish it was that easy for the more competitive keywords!

ok true.. but do you consider "hire offshore staff" competitive ? if you do then google it... and see who's on top

[allanp73]

SEO is not rocketscience. I studied rocketscience in university (Honors Physics major). People generally say something is not rocketscience when they are saying it is easy. Rocketscience is actually easy, just takes time to learn. SEO is the same way. Sure the basics can be understood and implimented by most people with a bit of common sense. But true SEO goes a step further. There is a finesse to it. I remember one situation where the client told me they could do the keyword research themselves using overture. I reviewed their findings and and quickly saw how off base they were. Some basic SEO search methods were missing from the way they conducted their research, things I would have done without thinking about it but were not so obvious to the client. Another thing the most people forget is SEO involves a lot of tweaking. I am constantly revisiting the work I have done for clients and modifying it to strengthen the overall SEO or meet the latest changes happening on the search engines. SEO is best described as a moving target; sure shooting an arrow is an easy thing, but hitting the bullseye takes some skill.

[allanp73]

"hire offshore staff" gets no searches, so doesn't matter if it competitive or not.
This is the kind of mistake people that don't have experience and focus on SEO make. A better term is "international staffing", I recommend you re-optimize for that.

[rickanderson]

Originally Posted by allanp73

Rocketscience is actually easy, just takes time to learn

Lol allan...although I didn't say it in my above post I definitely felt this way...just didn't want to offend all the rocket scientists here.

[mjancosek]

Originally Posted by Mamoon Rashid

Well...I dont wanna sound some arrogant ass..but frankly SEO is no rocket science...it just require some common sense...


and I dont do paid SEO (SEM) I only go for and recommend Organic SEO.

If anyone disagree with me...please let me know... I know I can still learn and no matter how good I am with SEO .. there's always room for improvement.

I use to believe this as well. I have 2 sites that sell the same things and are SEO'd for the same thing (my little experiment). They both come up first page organically. However, one of the sites I PPC as well. The sales trend on both of them run the same except the site with PPC actually brings in $15,000 a month more.


I have ran both sites for 1 year and have came to the conclusion that organic SEO is a vital part but PPC is worth the investment.

You are right it is not rocket science but it is trial and error. Most of the good SEO/Marketing professionals have already researched, and tested their ideas. You are one of the rare people that will actually take the time to read and do their own SEO. Good for you.

Only if more would read up and become more aware what is happening, maybe there would be less people scamming and making this profession less sketchy.

[inertia]

Originally Posted by Mamoon Rashid

ok true.. but do you consider "hire offshore staff" competitive ? if you do then google it... and see who's on top

As allan says, its not competitive therefore it would be relatively easy to rank for. Sorry to piss on your chips man but you have just shown your inexperience. For you to say "google it, and see whose on top..." using which country tld? Using .com from what country?

When i do a search on .co.uk (world wide) i get 147,000 returned results. That's really low, which suggests no-one is bothered about being number one for it.

[Mamoon Rashid]

Originally Posted by rickanderson

Rashid

I respectfully disagree....since it's *neither* rocket science or simple common sense.....it's learned skill that takes some time to become good at.

The reason why it's not common sense is because common sense is the ability to pay attention to the obvious and as much as some people would like to claim that certain things in seo are obvious...its just not the case...it's trial and error and while some things make *more* sense than others...seo all by itself can never be considered "common sense". ...it would be like studying law for 10 yrs and then telling a student studying "intro to law" that such and such is "common sense". Funny how it can take up to a decade to acquire this so-called common sense.

zen master archers have a saying: "it takes 10 yrs to get to the first rung"

Regards
Rick

hmm..maybe its not common sense...but talent ? and maybe i thought it to be common sense...cuz it seems so natural to me ?

[Mamoon Rashid]

Originally Posted by mjancosek

I use to believe this as well. I have 2 sites that sell the same things and are SEO'd for the same thing (my little experiment). They both come up first page organically. However, one of the sites I PPC as well. The sales trend on both of them run the same except the site with PPC actually brings in $15,000 a month more.


I have ran both sites for 1 year and have came to the conclusion that organic SEO is a vital part but PPC is worth the investment.

You are right it is not rocket science but it is trial and error. Most of the good SEO/Marketing professionals have already researched, and tested their ideas. You are one of the rare people that will actually take the time to read and do their own SEO. Good for you.

Only if more would read up and become more aware what is happening, maybe there would be less people scamming and making this profession less sketchy.

so are you saying.. SEO is like a woman ? so hard to understand and so hard to please ?

[Mamoon Rashid]

Originally Posted by inertia

As allan says, its not competitive therefore it would be relatively easy to rank for. Sorry to piss on your chips man but you have just shown your inexperience. For you to say "google it, and see whose on top..." using which country tld? Using .com from what country?

When i do a search on .co.uk (world wide) i get 147,000 returned results. That's really low, which suggests no-one is bothered about being number one for it.

ok try "volvo dealer in boston" : ) the first site is ours

I am not saying I am GURU...I am just saying ..SEO expertise is over rated

[inertia]

Originally Posted by Mamoon Rashid

so are you saying.. SEO is like a woman ? so hard to understand and so hard to please ?

Yeah! Youve got it Mamoon! Best description of SEO ive ever heard! Thats why the women cant resist me!!!

Originally Posted by allanp73

Rocketscience is actually easy, just takes time to learn

Another cracking post! What a comedic bunch we are!lol

[Mamoon Rashid]

Originally Posted by allanp73

SEO is not rocketscience. I studied rocketscience in university (Honors Physics major). People generally say something is not rocketscience when they are saying it is easy. Rocketscience is actually easy, just takes time to learn. SEO is the same way. Sure the basics can be understood and implimented by most people with a bit of common sense. But true SEO goes a step further. There is a finesse to it. I remember one situation where the client told me they could do the keyword research themselves using overture. I reviewed their findings and and quickly saw how off base they were. Some basic SEO search methods were missing from the way they conducted their research, things I would have done without thinking about it but were not so obvious to the client. Another thing the most people forget is SEO involves a lot of tweaking. I am constantly revisiting the work I have done for clients and modifying it to strengthen the overall SEO or meet the latest changes happening on the search engines. SEO is best described as a moving target; sure shooting an arrow is an easy thing, but hitting the bullseye takes some skill.

yes i agree that it required alot of tweaking.. and first thing is..get your HTML right... the BASE has to be strong! and once it is.. you can build a sky scrapper on it!

[Mamoon Rashid]

Originally Posted by inertia

As allan says, its not competitive therefore it would be relatively easy to rank for. Sorry to piss on your chips man but you have just shown your inexperience. For you to say "google it, and see whose on top..." using which country tld? Using .com from what country?

When i do a search on .co.uk (world wide) i get 147,000 returned results. That's really low, which suggests no-one is bothered about being number one for it.

hehe.. you really need to try a lot harder to piss me off.... I am a positive guy....so no worries here mate... you can bang a frying pan over my head and i wont mind.....
...regardin .tld... I am global....geographical bounderies doesn't matter to me...

like I said in my earlier replies.. I am no God in SEO...but yes...if you want me to get a site on the top for 'web design' It will be a hell of a job....i agree yes.... so go for your own niche... really you dont want to get WHOLE world to come to your site..
just 0.1% is enough for you...believe me so go find a niche

[Mamoon Rashid]

Originally Posted by inertia

You got the basics of on-page optimisation sorted and that must have been enough for the site to rank. I wish it was that easy for the more competitive keywords!

yes I agree with you...its not that easy....i agree to that... but you can always go for your own niche... believe me you dont whole world .. you just need a tiny percentage of that..to make a hell of of a business from your website.. go for a niche...

[rickanderson]

Originally Posted by inertia

Best description of SEO ive ever heard! Thats why the women cant resist me!!!

he's the ceo of the s..e..o
which is why he is so fly
he goes by the code of the html
he has reasons dont ask him why

\o/

[Mamoon Rashid]

Originally Posted by mjancosek

I use to believe this as well. I have 2 sites that sell the same things and are SEO'd for the same thing (my little experiment). They both come up first page organically. However, one of the sites I PPC as well. The sales trend on both of them run the same except the site with PPC actually brings in $15,000 a month more.


I have ran both sites for 1 year and have came to the conclusion that organic SEO is a vital part but PPC is worth the investment.

You are right it is not rocket science but it is trial and error. Most of the good SEO/Marketing professionals have already researched, and tested their ideas. You are one of the rare people that will actually take the time to read and do their own SEO. Good for you.

Only if more would read up and become more aware what is happening, maybe there would be less people scamming and making this profession less sketchy.

well..I would say...we are so overwhelmed with this SEO that..we end up over doing it.... I think...and correct me if I am wrong.... we should be like .."Be what you are" its kiss.... i.e. Keep it simple stupid :P

[nahant37]

This is hysterical...a bunch of SEO experts wasting there time on a forum bull shitting each other on what is best!

I asked Hashe Computer Solutions (from hire offshore stafff-oh sorry international staffing) to SEO a site that was averaging about 12-14% of it's leads through organic search. They were paying about 40K a month in PPC.

Well guess what you rocket scientists.......average time spend on site from PPC is 1:00 minute or less and with organic searches about 4-5:00 minutes.

60 days after Mamoon's company optimized a real bad site they are now getting 33% of total searches in organic and have reduced their ROI buy 25%.

Spend less time thumping chests and more time browsing what the worlds is doing.
It's passing you guys by.

[inertia]

Originally Posted by Mamoon Rashid

hehe.. you really need to try a lot harder to piss me off.... I am a positive guy....so no worries here mate... you can bang a frying pan over my head and i wont mind.....

Im not trying to piss you off, i thought i was being quite nice!

Originally Posted by Mamoon Rashid

I am global....geographical bounderies doesn't matter to me...

So you've got a car dealer in boston number one in the UK? Why?

Originally Posted by Mamoon Rashid

like I said in my earlier replies.. I am no God in SEO...but yes...if you want me to get a site on the top for 'web design' It will be a hell of a job....i agree yes.... so go for your own niche... really you dont want to get WHOLE world to come to your site..
just 0.1% is enough for you...believe me so go find a niche

Were getting into a debate about basics which i fully understand Mamoon. Im lucky! Most of the work i do focusses on regional keywords which, like "volvo dealer in boston", are easy to accomplish with a decent site. A lot of people on here are working on HUGE phrases which cannot be done purely by:

Originally Posted by Mamoon Rashid

1. Used Concise W3C compliant HTML coding ..DIV based instead of Table Based
2. Proper Use of Meta Tags
3. Title - Description and H1 copy matching (and made sure <h1> comes first in the html..or atleast in the first few lines.)

[Mamoon Rashid]

Originally Posted by inertia

Im not trying to piss you off, i thought i was being quite nice!



So you've got a car dealer in boston number one in the UK? Why?



Were getting into a debate about basics which i fully understand Mamoon. Im lucky! Most of the work i do focusses on regional keywords which, like "volvo dealer in boston", are easy to accomplish with a decent site. A lot of people on here are working on HUGE phrases which cannot be done purely by:

1. heh just kidding..man
2. not in UK.. in USA.. and he's no. 1 in UK too... no worries about that heh
3. I agree with that.. but why go for huge phrase.. do you want the whole world ? believe me noone can handle that....imagine..2 million people sending you orders at the same time... what would you do ? :P

[inertia]

Originally Posted by nahant37

This is hysterical...a bunch of SEO experts wasting there time on a forum bull shitting each other on what is best!

I asked Hashe Computer Solutions (from hire offshore stafff-oh sorry international staffing) to SEO a site that was averaging about 12-14% of it's leads through organic search. They were paying about 40K a month in PPC.

Well guess what you rocket scientists.......average time spend on site from PPC is 1:00 minute or less and with organic searches about 4-5:00 minutes.

60 days after Mamoon's company optimized a real bad site they are now getting 33% of total searches in organic and have reduced their ROI buy 25%.

Spend less time thumping chests and more time browsing what the worlds is doing.
It's passing you guys by.

Hay! No need for that language! This is a family forum! I feel partly responsible for this thread going off topic so lets try and bring it back down to earth... The problem comes when serious seos are told by non serious seos that what they do is "not rocket science". I guess this discussion proves one obvious truth about the seo skill set, it is a movable goal post and each seo sets his own modus operandi.

[Mamoon Rashid]

Originally Posted by inertia

Hay! No need for that language! This is a family forum! I feel partly responsible for this thread going off topic so lets try and bring it back down to earth... The problem comes when serious seos are told by non serious seos that what they do is "not rocket science". I guess this discussion proves one obvious truth about the seo skill set, it is a movable goal post and each seo sets his own modus operandi.

so basically you are saying... I am a NON-SERIOUS SEO guy ? now this is a direct attack on my skills...buddy if you want to keep seo overrated....to help you earn your bread buddy....then all by all means preach it....but atleast be honest about it
I also earn part of my bread through it.... but frankly ..I dont overwhelm my client with it......like..ooooooooooooooohhh be afraid...its SEOOOOOOOO..... ooooooooooooooooooo

I am a CEO of a company who build enterprise level applications...so believe me I am not being elegator mouth and robin ass over here!

serious or not... I am giving my clients....results... and that is what counts in the end!

site age...page rank...inbound links...content relevance blah blah.....all matters..i know... but dont make it sound like a nightmare...for which you need 10 years to overcome.

and in the end..i still consider myself to be a student of my field...i.e that is quite broad actually... but yes..if someone says.. I am a non-serious seo person... I will take it seriously!

[incrediblehelp]

Not sure why this thread is turning into a "what I can do" thread, but it needs to stop. Stay on topic or start a new thread.

[mtheory]

Originally Posted by dburdon

Show me a site with less than 50% of its traffic coming from search and I'll show you a site that's failed to reach its SEO potential. Even sites with strong branding and big offline budgets will find that people use the search box to find them. I have sites where over 90% of new visitors come from search. Cut off search and you cut off growth.

Search clicks may well represent less than 10% of page loads, but in terms of where the traffic comes from its the honey pot.

Other site of the boat. Show me a site that get 50% of it traffic from searc engines and there's a site that could begetting 9 times more traffic from a more diverse and comprehensive marketing strategy.

[inertia]

Originally Posted by Mamoon Rashid

so basically you are saying... I am a NON-SERIOUS SEO guy ? now this is a direct attack on my skills...buddy if you want to keep seo overrated....to help you earn your bread buddy....then all by all means preach it....but atleast be honest about it
I also earn part of my bread through it.... but frankly ..I dont overwhelm my client with it......like..ooooooooooooooohhh be afraid...its SEOOOOOOOO..... ooooooooooooooooooo

Mamoon, you're contradicting yourself. You say you don't take seo seriously but then get offended when i say you're not a serious seo. In fact, you initially offended me by implying seo was "common sense". If it was common sense then why would so many of us spend half our lives on forums, sites, blogs (etc) researching, learning and staying up to date with our industry. You are not an seo! You have already announced that you are:

Originally Posted by Mamoon Rashid

I am a CEO of a company who build enterprise level applications

Originally Posted by Mamoon Rashid

site age...page rank...inbound links...content relevance blah blah.....all matters..i know... but dont make it sound like a nightmare...for which you need 10 years to overcome.

When did i say that?

The fact that you have mentioned the above aspects of seo as an after thought speaks volumes!
I am going to back out of this conversation now because it is making me look childish and unprofessional. Feel free to reply with the stereotypical "he's given up!!" comments, you're right, i have given up!

Originally Posted by rickanderson

he's the ceo of the s..e..o
which is why he is so fly
he goes by the code of the html
he has reasons dont ask him why

I haven't forgotten about our rap battle Rick! Just working on some more lines!

[allanp73]

I believe the forum lost focus once people began to down play the importance of a SEO and lost sight of the difference professional and the non-professional. To put it simply I can paint a picture and it won't look half bad yet I would not claim to be artist. The biggest issue I see is people generally claim they are SEOs when really they are web designers or web site owners have tried to optimize a web site.

To regain the focus of the original post here is a list of good SEO skills/traits:
- knowledge of search engines and the weights they use to rank sites
- ability to research keywords
- understanding of HTML, asp, php, and other web related languages
- understanding of Dreamweaver , Frontpage and other tools which affect the code
- ability to code css
- creative writing skills and proof writing/reading
- understanding of Urchin, Webtrends, and other web analytic tools
- resources for aiding in link building: directory lists, blog sites, article submission sites, forums, affiliates
- understanding of PPC, conversions, user experience, and visitor behavior
- people and management skills
- honesty (this may be the most important skill that is the most often lacking)

You'll notice I didn't mention meta tags, link structures, PR, and many of the basic knowledge elements for a SEO. This knowledge base is essential and anyone claiming to be a SEO better know inside and out.

I hope this helps get things back on track
-Allan Pollett
Global Net Trade - Web Business Development

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by allanp73

The biggest issue I see is people generally claim they are SEOs when really they are web designers or web site owners have tried to optimize a web site.

Allan the best post I read in the whole thread! I usually do not give a Rep points, but you got one now!!!

[rickanderson]

Originally Posted by nahant37

This is hysterical...a bunch of SEO experts wasting there time on a forum bull shitting each other on what is best!

Nahan

Hey macho man...next time you pass by....please do.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by nahant37

Spend less time thumping chests and more time browsing what the worlds is doing.
It's passing you guys by.

I think that is not passing me by, since I spend most of my time browsing what the world IS doing and developing high end techniques. Some guys know that here already. And to make something clear here, I do not offer PPC services, since I prefer and expertise in organic search optimization.

Great post by the way.

[rickanderson]

Originally Posted by nahant37

This is hysterical...a bunch of SEO experts wasting there time on a forum bull shitting each other on what is best!

dear chest thumper

i almost forgot...experts discussing what's best on any subject can hardly be described as "wasting their time".. I've never seen it be anything other than a fruitful exercise and i don't counts myself as an "expert" here...not in seo anyway....organic domination in my industry notwithstanding \o/

discussing seo is akin to discussing the recipe for beer; you can get from a to b any number of ways....the important thing is to get a buzz along the way.