SEO consequences of a website relaunch

[caravan]

The company I work for has been working on the rebranding of a series of websites for a new client. I have been asked for some advise on the potential pitfalls they need to be aware of with regard to the implementation of one site in particular.

The existing site is well placed on the search engines for their chosen search terms and is bringing in traffic and sales. However the clients wants to move the new website onto a new domain as this is part of their rebranding exercise to bring all the different elements of the company under one umbrella. They have expressed concern that with the launch of the new site they would like to minimise the impact of any possible loss of rankings as the summer is approaching and historically their busiest period of the year.

I would like to clarify my thoughts and their available options with others before I make my recommendations to them.

My initial thoughts are that they keep the new website on the current domain (it's not broken so don't fix it) as it is well aged, has good rank and trust value. The implementation of a new website would then require us to use 301 redirects in order to bring the changeover into line.

As the client wants to change the location of the website to a new domain my concern is that the platform on which they stand will be lost. Would the use of 301's to the new domain help to re-align the existing ranking and trust values from the old domain to the new or will they be effectively be starting from scratch, thus losing all their existing rankings.

A third option has been suggested is that they put the site onto a sub domain of the current domain. Would this be a better option than using a brand new domain or would the search engines see this as a new domain itself. Would the sub domain benefit from the trust value that the parent domain has?

[inertia]

Hi Andy. Ive been in this situation with a few customers and it can be a real headache explaining to a customer that they should stick with their old domain.

There are a few options available. How about redirecting the new domain to the old one using mod rewrite? That way you can add the new domain to any company literature and branding but it will seamlessly redirect to the old domain when a customer types it in. The only problem with this is that you loose branding in the URL and in the SERPs.

Setting up a site 301 redirect will not be a seamless transfer. In theory the search engines should transfer all the PR, SERPs, trust etc to the new domain but it will take time for this to happen and they will see some drop in SERPs as the search engines re-align their index. If you're going to try this option then you should be thinking about a few things - its going to take a few weeks (possibly months) for the site to re-align. You should also think about getting all the in bound links changed to the new URL and this can be very time consuming!

I wouldn't recommend setting up a sub domain. Google used to treat sub domains as separate sites but they changed their algo last year and now see them as sub-folders. I'm not sure how this could work with regards to branding to be honest?!

If they can get away with it, leave the domain as it is!!!

[bj]

Um, why not have both?

As they rebrand and develop business on the new site, they can slowly phase out the old as people become aware of the new brand and the old starts to drop off the radar.

[z28com]

I was able to transfer all of my stuff to a new domain using 301 re-directs and in a short time the new site had all of the PR5's that it had once before.

It shouldn't take long. Don't give up hope.

[MrGamm]

Yes... truth be told... some people like moving around... to the point where all that brand awareness dumps straight into the toilet... but hey... maybe burts-crematory-o-rama.com just doesn't give the right message...

I would be wary of anyone making you redirect across TLD's... these people just want to make other people's life hell... if that's the case find an employer/client who isn't going to waste your time...

Whatever you do... make sure you can undo it... the truth is... your never going to know until you try for yourself... no matter what anybody tells you...

don't tell somebody they can't when they want... bill them... and let them make their own decisions...

301... and check your absolute urls...

[Seminole386]

I agree with BJ. A few lost sales more than offsets the cost of runing two sites. In time you can build the rankings for the new site. I often builded a 2nd site and then change the links from my old site to the home page of the new one. Visitors seem to accept it with no problem. Then I phase the old site out as traffic declines.

[ran_dizolph]

don't tell somebody they can't when they want... bill them... and let them make their own decisions...

Uh, kinda disagree.

It's part of our job to help our client understand things they don't understand, such as the situation this thread is about. We need to do our best to help them make a competent decision, as it is ultimately their decision to make.

[MrGamm]

Originally Posted by ran_dizolph

Uh, kinda disagree.

It's part of our job to help our client understand things they don't understand, such as the situation this thread is about. We need to do our best to help them make a competent decision, as it is ultimately their decision to make.

no I understand what your saying... but my point is... it's completely possible to do... changing a domain name is doable... so to tell your client they can't makes an seo look like an idiot...

hope that clears it up...

[kevsta]

if the website is staying the same 301's seem to work pretty well recently, maybe a little dip but have done a few this year and been pleasantly surprised none have suffered much if any drop.

[marcel]

You could lose your entire ranking...
But if you do it right your ranking will improve.


I just completed the total redesign of one of my websites to Drupal

My rank is much better now
- I was #5 on come words

Now I am on#4 on the same words
my website improved because
- Drupal modules lets me keep exactly the same URL structure. VERY IMPORTANT ( use PATHAUTO module )
- Drupal module let me duplicate the same <title></title> tag info ( custom title module )
- I added a blog with relevant content - don't know if it matters. ( default installation )
- I kept part of the same design
- I analysed my traffic and make sure the same links all work.

[incrediblehelp]

If they need to change the domain or rebrand, then they need to do it. Sometimes this happens and you just have to bite the bullet, do it and get through it. Of course if they choose to do this then they must understand the repercussions of this.

Utilizing 301 redirect will help, but there is no guarantee all rankings and traffic will move over to the new domain. They must understand that this is part of the risk of doing this and is the same for anyone online that does this. Also how much is changing on the website? Are we talking one to one match ups of the same pages? No new content?

I agree that keeping the old domain up and running while building the traffic to the new domain makes sense, but it can cause a branding nightmare for them. You really need to understand more on what they actually do before recommending to do this.

The subdomain idea might work, but once again you really need to know more about the company to say if this would work. I would say this sounds like more of a band aid than a solution

If summer is the busy season why not wait until fall and go through it at that time. This would also give you time to properly plan this project correctly. I would still by the new domains now and start working on building links and popularity in the mean time.

If you want me to look at this further and don’t want to post the websites, PM me.

[fathom]

A new domain is like closing an old store and starting it in a new place (but all the adverts which help bring in new customers all have them go to an empty location... and lost business (same thing here)

While a re-direct isn't a bad option it won't stop ranking loses - so:

...if your ranks are primarily based on the mainpage leave the old domain active but any clicks into that domain automatically goes to the new domain's associated pages.

... this will also help the new domain start off it's link strategy.

... if ranks are to different pages... keep the old architecture (pages with ranks) "as is" on the old domain... and interlink these with the new domain.

... again this will also help the new domain start off it's link strategy.

After about a year you can likely just redirect the pages and not lose anything.

[incrediblehelp]

Another thread that may help from Google groups:

Domain change - Google, please give us guidelines! - Crawling, indexing, and ranking | Google Groups

What Should You Do to Your Content when You Change Domains?

[dvduval]

If you are truly building a site that people will love and want to return to often, as well as tell their friends, this topic should not be a big issue.

[Weedy Lady]

Why is it that when I went to graduate business school we were taught, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" as the first, middle, last and most important thing we could learn.

Has everyone forgotten that?

These companies keep rebranding and changing and "improving" things that work perfectly well. My personal experience when I visit a web site that worked well in the past and has been totally redesigned is usually to be pissed off because I can't find what I want anymore.

I have redesigned my own site, but kept the original name, theme, etc. The redesigns were helped a lot by advice from my fellow members on this forum and were needed, so I'm not saying that nothing should ever be changed. But I'm sure not going to change something that is working well and making money for me.

However, as others have said in this thread, if they insist and it is your job to do what they insist on, at least you will make some money........

[edhan]

Originally Posted by Weedy Lady

Why is it that when I went to graduate business school we were taught, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" as the first, middle, last and most important thing we could learn.

Yes. I totally agree with that. But if it is really needed to change domain name, then as what others had said, let the existing domain running while building up the new domain. At the same time, using 301 redirect from the old domain to the new domain. At least with the old domain still running, you will not lose the old clients and don't forget to inform about the new domain name. You can check your log to ensure that all your 301 redirect is done before you decide to take off the old domain.

[nelsonez]

I agree with BJ and Fathom. There is no reason why you can't have both the old and the new site going initially. As long as there is no duplicate content or duplicate coding profile issues. One thing that I have never understood is the need for the so-called and much hyped "launch" concept. For some reason the bean counters still seem to think that people are just lined up ready to go to the brand new site as soon as it goes up. And they think this process needs to be done in an all or none manner as fast as possible. Everytime I have seen this done it has been a disaster. Something completely unexpected always comes up.

Someone else said make sure that whatever you do it can be undone relatively easy. I completely agree. Slowly migrate the old site into the new one as you see the rankings and traffic ramp up for the newly branded site. Do everything in a very slow and measured manner.

Rebranding with a completely new domain name is by far the most difficult and unpredictable thing that any SEO specialist has to go through. No matter what you do with redirects you can't change all the external links on all the non-search engine websites that all contribute to the overall popularity index of your current domain. You will lose this with a brand new domain.

This is a good quote (below). Most physical businesses would never do something like this and it applies to websites as well. Because building a new website is soooo much cheaper than building a new physical store why would you not take advantage of using both?

Originally Posted by fathom

A new domain is like closing an old store and starting it in a new place (but all the adverts which help bring in new customers all have them go to an empty location... and lost business (same thing here).

[webfeatus]

I have a similar situation - mine is rebranding only; one server only.

I have suggested to my client that I simply park the new domain name at the location of the existing, well-ranked website; and leave things that way.

Then make website content changes that reflect the rebranding issues. Very little theme content or page stucture will be changed.

Allow the Search Engines to see the new website branding content reflects the new parked domain name - and hope that they eventually work this out.

Assist the above proces via link backs, as much as possible, to the new site.

Encourage the client to then send customers to the new parked domain name - via their marketing material.

If, and I do mean that "if" after many months, the SE's then tend towards the new parked domain - the option is there to remove the old domain name. I have seen this arbitrary switch made my Google in the past, when it comes to a parked domain.

Otherwise, nothing lost - nothing gained.
(301 is a gamble)

Any thoughts?

[MrGamm]

Originally Posted by webfeatus

Otherwise, nothing lost - nothing gained.
(301 is a gamble)

Any thoughts?

301 is a gamble if your altering your website at the architectural level... if your modifying your links and redirecting all over the place then yes... your potentially doing something wrong...

If you're re-branding... modify the style layer only... redirect at the point of entry ( at the dns or domain name level )... 301... and use absolute urls...

Or if you prefer... don't redirect at all... just use absolute urls... the first click to the website might not be the right domain... but each click after that will be...

best dust of the old preg_match...

[watto]

I used a 301 redirect about 18 months ago with one of my sites and it didn't take long for everything to be pushed over. My rankings remained the same and I was very happy with the result. Yahoo did take a little longer before I seen my new url in the serps, but traffic remained the same.

I hope this helps.

Regards

watto
Businesses for Sale - Buy & Sell Australian Business for Sale

[confettiguru]

I ran into this problem a couple of years ago and here's how I solved it. I had a website under PartyConfetti.com - Confetti by the Pound Confetti by the Packet I had great search position...usually top 3 spots on both google and yahoo. I wanted to redesign and relaunch
For a variety of reasons I decided to go with a new domain name PartyConfetti.com - Confetti by the Pound Confetti by the Packet
Both domains are close to 10 years old so that was similar
While we were building the new site we let the old one stay and do it's thing. Once the new site went live we kept both up and running until the new site hit the top 5 position in the primary searches..mainly google and yahoo.
After 3 months of constant top positions we took down the old site, redirected to PartyConfetti.com - Confetti by the Pound Confetti by the Packet and kept all of our traffic
I'm now planning to do the same thing in reverse. What I specialize in is confetti so I realized that PartyConfetti.com - Confetti by the Pound Confetti by the Packet is the more intuitive name...here we go again. I'll keep you posted

[pomra]

I'd be concerned about any major changes. If they run dual sites they risk getting the dup content penalty, if they make significant changes they may see significant serp changes. Just recently a related industry site - friends of ours - made a seemingly minor change to the layout of their site and lost 30% of their pages for 2 months. Good luck.

[goldsteinmedia]

I don't understand why they won't just keep both sites. It's not that hard to make another upload to a different domain name. I know at hosting company Bluehost they allow you to have multiple sites at on your server and have them refer to the same files but not be "subdomains" take a look.

[babychicken4u2]

I think running both sites is a very large gamble for the duplication filters. Do you really want to be in a situation where Google is too chose which pages when the choices are a brand new domain and a seasoned domain with some trust?

I would be very bad to have the site's competing for Google's indexing attention, as the new one is a sure loser in the comparison.

I still say, there must be very valid reasons to do this.... Not a whim.

I would host the domain on the same IP if you can, this will help some. Then just 301 it properly and build links like a madman. There will be flux, it is inevitable... But I have moved and changed many sites and pages in this way without any serious issues. We had one site, switched their static html extensions to static php extensions, and that one was the worst we have seen. It was de-indexed for 3 days, but took 90 days to return the PR and links.

Something else to consider, which may be much smoother, is to move the existing "old site" content to the new hosted account (preferable same IP) and 301 the "old domain". Wait a month or 2 then launch your redesign, so everything is not happening at once.

At the end of the day you really have to plan and think these things through... Ask yourself what is the value of changing this domain? There is always risk... but again if you need to do this, then you have to and thats a valid reason to make the move.

~Melanie

[seo4china]

-If there is a site redesign, new content etc., then it's a safer bet to keep both sites at the beginning but market the new one only.
-If you are going basically to keep the same site, just change the domain name, then 301 is the way to go