Is PR still relevant?

[RawFunk]

Hi all,

Over the past 12 months or so I've entered into my fair share of debates on this topic. Primarily with those who are not directly connected to an SEO business, but who do perform seo work on their own commercial web sites.

When google first introduced its PR I was a strong advocate, spending a lot of time concentrating more on achieving high PR. As time went by I started to realise that although having PR6+ sites was great, 9 time out of 10 sites that held far less PR were beating me in the SERPS.

Today I don't have the google tool bar on any of my browsers, I don't pay any attention to it. My site or my clients sites all rank well and achieve top 10 SERPs with little or no linking strategies. They actually beat high PR weighted sites in highly competitive keywords/phrases.

Which brings me back to my initial question, is PR still relevant? Personal I don't think it is.


Cheers

Dave

[ShaunParkerHP]

It is still very relevent.

The problem is that you don't know what it is and neither do I, you only have toolbar PR which is nonsense.

My advice is to forget about it and just do all the right things that you know will generate it, doing them right will put you where you need to be.

[ctabuk]

This is all that counts - Internal Pagerank Google Webmaster Central

[Toni Anicic]

I believe PR i still very relevant. Imagine you have 2 websites with same on-site optimization. The only difference in their positioning would be backlinks witch brings us back to PR.

I also believe PR is going to become even more relevant in close future as rel no-follow is becoming more accepted among webmasters. As soon as no-follow tag becomes more popular (google continues to penalize paid links without no-follow tag), it will be much harder to gain high PR and google might pay more relevance to PR in SERPs.

[bobchrist]

Yes it is still relevant because google still continue to keep it one of the tools as indicator of an individual page's value.

[Dubbya]

Is PageRank important?

According to information in WebMaster Central:

The heart of our software is PageRank™, a system for ranking web pages developed by our founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin at Stanford University. And while we have dozens of engineers working to improve every aspect of Google on a daily basis, PageRank continues to play a central role in many of our web search tools.

PageRank Explained

PageRank relies on the uniquely democratic nature of the web by using its vast link structure as an indicator of an individual page's value. In essence, Google interprets a link from page A to page B as a vote, by page A, for page B. But, Google looks at considerably more than the sheer volume of votes, or links a page receives; for example, it also analyzes the page that casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves "important" weigh more heavily and help to make other pages "important." Using these and other factors, Google provides its views on pages' relative importance.

Of course, important pages mean nothing to you if they don't match your query. So, Google combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines dozens of aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query.
Integrity

Google's complex automated methods make human tampering with our search results extremely difficult. And though we may run relevant ads above and next to our results, Google does not sell placement within the results themselves (i.e., no one can buy a particular or higher placement). A Google search provides an easy and effective way to find high-quality websites that contain information relevant to your search.

Source: Google Technology

How can I improve my site's ranking?

Sites' positions in our search results are determined based on a number of factors designed to provide end-users with helpful, accurate search results. These factors are explained in more detail at Google Technology.

In general, webmasters can improve the rank of their sites by increasing the number of high-quality sites that link to their pages. For more information about improving your site's visibility in the Google search results, we recommend reviewing our webmaster guidelines. They outline core concepts for maintaining a Google-friendly website.

Source: How can I improve my site's ranking?

[ushuiah]

Nice referrence Dubbya. Yes, Pagerank is still relevant and most of still rely on it.

[Purple Trout]

Perhaps, but I think I would be more concerned with ALL of the things that control Page Rank. It is not the silver bullet and I think too many people spend too much time worrying about PR rather than other important SEO factors.

[dburdon]

PageRank is still important. It is the very essence of Google. Toolbar PageRank - the green bar - is relevant only at the margins. A zero or one would be a problem. A 8+ signifies real inbound link strength. I would worry less about TBPR and spend more time on relevance.

[kevsta]

well yea, they do.

but then its understandable, as its also a reflection of SEO work that has gone on before (or not) and can be taken as a measure of how youve done since the last update time, its difficult to see how to forget about it.

no, trying to build PR for its own sake isnt the aim, but if you build a good site and promote it properly, its always nice to see the PR reflect and validate that.

[jordanmcclements]

Originally Posted by ShaunParkerHP

It is still very relevent.

The problem is that you don't know what it is and neither do I, you only have toolbar PR which is nonsense.

I agree with this - there is page rank, and there is toolbar page rank!

[SemAdvance]

Millions of businesses exist with no PageRank.

Walk around outside no toolbar anywhere I have seen.

Relevant?

Depends, if your business is held hostage by a search engine named Google, then perhaps it is....

;->

[Ellio]

Yes for the simple reason that good inbound links = higher ranking and inbound links = higher PR

One and the same.

Ellio

[wcwebs]

In my humble opinion, I agree that there is a big difference between toolbar pagerank and that of pagerank.

Although my site dropped from a PR4 to a PR3 with the last update, I am still getting the same, if not more traffic. I have also noticed on several occassions that there are sites listed below mine that have a much higher toolbar pagerank in the range of 6 or 7.

Getting high quality links is very important, but good SEO on targeted keywords will get your site listed above all else. At least it has worked for me.

[bijan814]

It's not relevant at all, because some website that have low PR rank very high, and you have website that have high PR ranks low. I think it's important because you can know that the website has lots of links to it.

[Zombie Master]

Was PR ever relevant?

[jaldridge]

The reason that your toolbar pagerank can drop from 4 to 3, for example, is not that you've lost links but that Google is adjusting the value of pagerank. 3 or 4 years ago it was easy to get a PR5 of PR6 on a site. These days it takes a lot more effort, and rightly so. The web has grown massively and Google constantly adjusts their pagerank algorithm to adapt to the very dynamic environment of the Internet.

I always find that people that say PageRank isn't important are the ones that have low PR. We all know, and Matt Cutts has said it, that the higher you PR the more often and deeper Google will crawl your site. For large sites high PR is important but for low highly focussed sites less so.

Just my 2 (Euro) cents...

[datetopia]

If PR is not important for getting relevant traffic to a website then what is?

[Zombie Master]

I agree with Dave.

PR reminds me of a Stephen Crane poem... too lazy to look it up but here it is in paraphrase:

Many workmen built a huge ball of masonry upon a hilltop
Then they went below to observe their work
"It is beautiful," they said. They loved the thing.
Then, of a sudden, it moved and crushed them all to blood.
But some had opportunity to squeal.

[atahawaii]

I agree with the others, that pagerank is important, whereas google toolbar page rank may or may not be a indicator of good SERPs. The terminology can get confusing and It's good that others in this forum have posted clarification on this matter.

[nottheusual1]

Originally Posted by SemAdvance

Millions of businesses exist with no PageRank.

Walk around outside no toolbar anywhere I have seen.

Relevant?

Depends, if your business is held hostage by a search engine named Google, then perhaps it is....

;->

Amen. It gets way too much positive press.

[chanin111]

I am just the owner of a site-not an expert--but with that said my site as of today has a PR of 2. And, my 3 big keywords rank me as #1, #5, and #9 on the 1st page of google. My #9 fluctuates from #9 to #7 typically. My opinion is that PR doesn't hold much weight. I would love to know why I am 'loved' by Google so I can replicate it on my new site.

[ShaunParkerHP]

Originally Posted by atahawaii

I agree with the others, that pagerank is important, whereas google toolbar page rank may or may not be a indicator of good SERPs. The terminology can get confusing and It's good that others in this forum have posted clarification on this matter.

It is not a good indicator period.

[mark.smith]

Hi,

Well, it may be.....but based upon my experience , my site & other sites of my clients are doing well in term of SERP in various search engines. i also noticed that many sites even having PR grater then that of mine are placed below in SERP ......the most important thing is that you have to work hard & regularly because SEO needs time...



---------------------------------------------------------
Web design Wales || Medium Website design
Large Website design || Ecommerce Packages

[Veikoh]

Your visitors and sales conversion rates are only thing that matters in Internet Business. If PR does not give you proper visitors it's absolutely irrelevant. SEO work should start from Keyword analysis not spending a efforts and money to archive PR or no 1 positions for keywords that not selling.

[ireneherz]

All I know is my site dropped from a 5 to a 4 to a 0 (presumably because I have an unrelated paid link), but number of visits hasn't dropped. Google is not the only search engine in the world.

[kgun]

Originally Posted by dburdon

PageRank is still important. It is the very essence of Google. Toolbar PageRank - the green bar - is relevant only at the margins. A zero or one would be a problem. A 8+ signifies real inbound link strength. I would worry less about TBPR and spend more time on relevance.

Agree.

[uberanimal]

it seems to be more relivant to spammers. i am getting so many spammers due to a higher PR... higher the PR higher the spammers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dburdon
PageRank is still important. It is the very essence of Google. Toolbar PageRank - the green bar - is relevant only at the margins. A zero or one would be a problem. A 8+ signifies real inbound link strength. I would worry less about TBPR and spend more time on relevance.

Good!

[lovemark]

It seems that a high PR is an indication that your page has lots of inbound links, but this doesn't make it easier for people to find it in a search engine.
I have lots of pages on my site, but the pages which get the most hits are the ones that have words that people are looking for. Having the right keyword in the <title> helps. My rankigs page for men gets the most hits, even though my page for women has a higher PR

[jawn_tech]

I know I'm painting a target on my back by saying this.

Even the green toolbar PR is relevant. Maybe not so much in terms of SEO, directly...

But anyone who has it on their toolbar and knows what it is, HAS to admit that when you come across a site with a lot of green, one can't help but feel impressed to some degree.

[deepsand]

Toll Bar PR is updated but occasionally, on no particular schedule. Therefore, it is but a snapshot of the past, and should not be construed as being a reliable measure of the current Page Rank.

[freeadlists]

I don't think PR is all that important relative to traffic levels. I had site that was a PR5 but it was performing much better when it was a PR2 site. If a site has been around for awhile and has no PR or grayed out PR, I think that would be something to be concerned about.

[WDC]

I don't wonder for PR if my site is rankig ell in search engines. If my site had a good PR but no search engine ranking placement, then high PR is of no use for me.

[ladyj]

I guess I am confused. My site had, up until a couple weeks ago a PR 4 on the Google Toolbar. Now it is 0??? I don't know that I have done anything wrong, and would appreciate some insight as to what I can do to 'fix' it???

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by ladyj

I guess I am confused. My site had, up until a couple weeks ago a PR 4 on the Google Toolbar. Now it is 0??? I don't know that I have done anything wrong, and would appreciate some insight as to what I can do to 'fix' it???

1) Tool Bar PR is updated only irregularly; as such, it is therefore but a snapshot of an unspecified time in the past.

2) There is no guarantee that the Tool Bar PR is even a reliable indicator of said past point in time. In fact, at the moment, it seems, from many such reports, that many have seen this Tool Bar item cease to work, displaying no PR for any site.

Ignore Tool Bar PR; it's of no reliable use as a metric of true Page Rank.

[amjad_you]

As i think PR matters a lot more. PR is a matter of off-site optimization. It tell the search engines as well as the visitors that how well the site is off-site optimized.

[ShaunParkerHP]

Originally Posted by jawn_tech

I know I'm painting a target on my back by saying this.

Even the green toolbar PR is relevant. Maybe not so much in terms of SEO, directly...

But anyone who has it on their toolbar and knows what it is, HAS to admit that when you come across a site with a lot of green, one can't help but feel impressed to some degree.

LoL - Taking aim....

Actually you have a point, you see the green bar influences people, lets face it the green bar is responsible for a whole link selling industry which is why G has started to take action over it.

For myself seeing the Black Hat SEO page rank of 10 said it all really, thats another reason why its not relevent if you are SEO aware, it can be faked.