Possibilty of Duplicate Content?

[melchapman]

I am currently working with a client that has several websites. Here is a list and what they contain.

frankelrealty.com - simple website that contains minimal content, and listings. The site's main purpose is synication to sites that display listings.

frankelrealtygroup.com - large website that contains information about several countie's real estate areas. Also contains listings, and property searches. This website has been penalized by Yahoo for linking issues amoung other things. New site is being built (getthathome.net) to replace this one.

getthathome.net - new website being built by myself to contain information on only 2 of the counties marketed but same info (verbiage not verbaitum) as frankelrealtygroup.com. No listings are being added at this time. This website is being built to replace frankelrealtygroup.com.

searchhouses.net - new website that is being built by client that has a custom IDX (property searches) and information about the same real estate areas as frankelrealtygroup.com. Again... info about same areas but verbiage is not verbatium. In addition to the counties that are covered on frankelrealtygroup.com, there are additional ones.

findproperties.net - strictly an IDX (property search) site. Visitors can search homes for sale in all of Northeast Florida.


My suggestion to him is that he have one site that concentrates on the 2 most popular counties and areas within them. That is the one that I am working on (getthathome.net). I also told him that the one that he is working on (searchhouses.net) concentrate on the other counties for a couple of reasons.

1. Avoid duplicate content about the same subject even though it is not verbaitum.
2. Focus on smaller areas so that the site is not overwhelmed with too much information, thus being ranked higher and focusing on a smaller subject.


So my question is... is there a risk for duplicate content issues? I know Yahoo for sure doesn't like it. If the site is owned by the same person and there are two sites on the same subject... one will more than likely make it into the directory. Same goes for Google. Don't they have a hard time determining which is better?

Are any of you in agreement with me that he should break down the subjects (counties)?

Any comments or suggestions are welcome. I need something to show my client backing up my suggestions and knowledge. If I have not explained myself clearly... please feel free to ask questions to clarify.

Thanks in advance!

[wige]

I don't think a search engine can or will penalize you for having several sites on the same subject but with different content on the same server/ip. Shared hosting is a very old concept on the web, and it is natural and expected that some servers would host numerous sites on the same topic but not related to each other. As an example, there are hosting companies dedicated to hosting religious web sites, and that is the only type of site they will host. Often, these sites have domains from the same registrar and may even have the same web developer. However, these sites are all seperate, although they may have a few links from one to another. No search engine will look at those religious sites and just pick one to index.

That said, all (or at least most of the major) search engines also look at averages. If two or three sites on one server are too similar* or link excessively* to each other, the search engines may then determine that the sites are related and start discounting or outright penalizing those links.

Also, remember that there is no duplicate penalty, per se. It is in reality more of a duplicate content filter. With all of the syndication technology that is in use today, the search engines expect content will be duplicated in various places around the web. However, the engines do not want to keep reindexing the same content, preferring to send the searcher to the original source of the document, as best as that source can be determined. So, if you are pulling listings, for example, from a single database and feeding that data to several sites, as long as the data is not the primary focus of the page and does not account for the majority of the page content, the page SERP position should be unaffected. It simply won't benefit from the syndicated content.

[melchapman]

Thanks for the reply.

Concerning the same IP/Hosting Company... None of these sites are hosted by the same company.

Question: But wouldn't having multiple sites on the same subject defeat the purpose? Why spend the money to build one site concentrating on one subject and then build another on the same subject? Would it not be more effective to seperate the content so that the site is concentrated on that subject?

Previous experience:

I had a client that had two sites. One was strictly on condo conversions and the other one was based on general real estate homes and areas. But... the listings were duplicate. Yahoo would not allow both sites to be included in their directory because the general real estate site contained the same listings, different wording, as well as information about condo conversions. It is not "duplicate content" verbatim per say... but it is subject oriented with the same company.

Does that make any sense?

Mel

[tamecrow]

Multiple sites on the same subject can create a strong network, but there's a limit. The problem of duplicate content arises when the same content appears on two domains or pages. As you say, though, if there's no real reason for the content to be spread across so many domains, then it may be worth explaining this to the client. If you believe it will be more beneficial to his SEO, then he'll have to go with that - you're the expert

[melchapman]

Originally Posted by tamecrow

Multiple sites on the same subject can create a strong network, but there's a limit. The problem of duplicate content arises when the same content appears on two domains or pages.

Yes, creating a strong network can be very effective. The same content is not verbatim, but it pertains to the same subject.

Originally Posted by tamecrow

As you say, though, if there's no real reason for the content to be spread across so many domains, then it may be worth explaining this to the client.

I have explained this to the client and believe that it will defeat the purpose of optimizing two sites on the same subject... plus, having a site that contains so much different content will take away from the main subject.

Originally Posted by tamecrow

If you believe it will be more beneficial to his SEO, then he'll have to go with that - you're the expert

Trut that!

I have added some of his comments about the subject.

Quote from client:
I am not too worried about duplicate content. There are tons of pages about Duval and St. Johns County already out there. I was going to go Copyscape - Website Plagiarism Search - Web Site Content Copyright Protection and check each page after it was made. I think this would pull duplicate content if it was out there. Or if the pages end up in google supplemental then we may need to change around the content.

Question: How could I better explain to my client that the best SEO/Marketing solution would be to split the content up?

Thanks tamecrow!

[tamecrow]

Originally Posted by melchapman

Quote from client:
I am not too worried about duplicate content.

Wow. Perhaps you want to point him to this forum post and this next line in particular:

You should be worried about duplicate content!

I can think of three clients off the top of my head who have come to me in the past couple of months asking me to get their site cleaned up because they'd been banned from the SERPs. Each one of these was banned due to duplicate content issues. One of them had .com, .co.uk and .net equivalents pointing at the same content in a framed redirect.

Whilst the content on your domains at the moment may not be considered as duplicate content, I think your client certainly needs to understand that not being worried about duplicate content is a mistake. If I could offer one piece of advice, it's to be careful and consider everything - you simply can't afford to disregard anything that may negatively affect your rankings on gut feeling or otherwise.

[melchapman]

Originally Posted by tamecrow

I can think of three clients off the top of my head who have come to me in the past couple of months asking me to get their site cleaned up because they'd been banned from the SERPs. Each one of these was banned due to duplicate content issues. One of them had .com, .co.uk and .net equivalents pointing at the same content in a framed redirect.

Did these clients have the same "subject" on multiple domains?

[tamecrow]

The one I mentioned had the exact same site across all three domains - one was the 'real' domain and the other two had a framed redirect to the 'real' one.

I've not seen a case of multiple sites on the same subject being treated as duplicate content - even if they have the same owner. There's really no reason for it unless the sites have syndicated or otherwise identical text across the sites.

[melchapman]

I just think that it defeats the purpose. You are spending double on creating sites and marketing them.

In my opinion... the best solution as for SEO/Marketing is to split the content up focusing on different subject areas. In this case, real estate areas in different counties.

Any comments supporting this tactic would be helpful. If not in agreement... that is ok too. Any opinion or option is open to discussion.

Thanks so much,

Mel

[tamecrow]

Mel,

I'd be inclined to agree with you unless the subjects of each site are significantly different that they will dilute the aims and intentions of each site. Would amalgamating the content run the risk of detracting from the main purpose of the site?

[melchapman]

There are essentially 6 counties located in NE Florida. The two most popular are Duval and St Johns. Those are the areas that are concentrated on the site that I am building. getthathome.net.

The other counties are Nassau, Baker, Clay, and Putman. These are all areas that they market and work in. These are not so popular.

6 counties and all their cities and major real estate areas is a ton of content. If you mix the most popular in there... I feel it will take away from purpose of having two sites. They would be competing with eachother and the efforts of one or the other would be useless. Having two sites strictly for the purpose of "just in case one gets penalized" doesn't make sense... especially if he is spending thousands of dollars to build the site on the most popular areas.

If you look at both sites you will see that the main title tag is the same focusing on the same areas.

Take a look if you have time.

searchhouses.net
getthathome.net

Do you see where I am coming from?

[tamecrow]

I think so. If you're using a different site to target each county, that seems rather futile. Why not use one domain (one brand, one respected website) and create sub-pages or sub-folders for the counties?

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by melchapman

Question: But wouldn't having multiple sites on the same subject defeat the purpose? Why spend the money to build one site concentrating on one subject and then build another on the same subject? Would it not be more effective to seperate the content so that the site is concentrated on that subject?

Not neccessarily.

Everytime a search is conducted, what is returned (or should be) are the best pages from sites for that query (subject).

Granted, the time and resources for 2 sites are considerably more than 1. It's only a "waste" if both are not returned for potential visitors to find.

If the sites provide unique and useful information to the potential visitors, regardless of whether or not the subject matter is the same, searchers expect the subject matter to be the same, then it really doesn't matter who actually owns the sites... except to the site owner.

Multiple sites, done properly, all have the opportunity to rank well for the same theme, even the same search query. Who owns them really doesn't matter. Just what they deliver.

Dave

[melchapman]

Thanks CrankyDave...

Do you mind me asking if you can back up your comments? Is there anything that supports your comments?

I appreciate your different point of view. I am just wondering if there is any information that may back up the fact that it wouldn't matter.

From experience... if you read before... Yahoo excluded one of the sites (different client) in it's directory because they contained the same content.

Thanks again,

Mel

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by melchapman

Thanks CrankyDave...

Do you mind me asking if you can back up your comments? Is there anything that supports your comments?

I appreciate your different point of view. I am just wondering if there is any information that may back up the fact that it wouldn't matter.

From experience... if you read before... Yahoo excluded one of the sites (different client) in it's directory because they contained the same content.

Thanks again,

Mel

Yes, I did read your earlier comments. Having never paid Yahoo for the privilege of being in their directory, I can't say first hand what their criteria is. That being said, containing the "same content" is one thing. Different content around the same theme is quite another. If we take real estate as an example, 2 sites that list same properties, is the bulk of the content, I can see where it shouldn't be included in the directory.

Take a look at apple.com and mac.com

Kinda a clear who owns both of them and both rank just fine for the same theme.

As far as the real estate niche goes, how many real estate related sites do you think Network Communications, Inc. has and how many rank well for the same theme?

I think what's important is to establish the difference between duplicated "content" and duplicated "theme".

As far as me personally, I have worked with/on sites with the same theme, same owner, that rank just fine for what is being targetted. Using different domains, or even subdomains for that matter, can work just fine when properly utilized.

To my knowledge, none of the SE's have a problem with anyone owning and using multiple domains for the same theme. It all depends on how they're using them.

Dave

[incrediblehelp]

Why not have one website with all the useful content in one place. Much better from an end user and SE perspective. This one domain will also grow to an authority level eventually and rule the SERP's.

Of course that all sounds nice and dandy, but that is a lot of work. Just wondering the reason for making so much website management work for yourself and dealiing with multiple websites?

[wige]

I have a couple questions that might clarify the situation... 1) When you refer to duplicate content, do you mean similar text, or verbatim text? (You may be able to avoid duplicate content from the identical listings by using *shudder* iframes) and 2) Is your concern with Yahoo that identical content will keep one site out of the generic listings, or that similar content will keep one site out of the paid directory?

[tamecrow]

wige - What do you mean by avoiding duplicate content by using iframes? Search engines are able to read iframes, so I'm not entirely sure how that would help.