What Do You Love About SEO?

[mjtaylor]

I started out as a web designer. I had a decent eye for layout but no great skill in graphic design. Fortunately my first employer taught me something about SEO – which was called search engine optimization then. I took a class online from Robin Nobles, and fell in love with this challenging aspect of web development.

Why? Because it appeals to my competitive nature, I suppose, and because I love to write (or edit) almost as much as I love to talk. I also love the constant change, the challenge can be stressful, but I am always being forced to learn something new and to stretch my skills.

What do you love about SEO?

[ctabuk]

I am in awe of the guys that can create websites, I love to read the technical aspects of the various and highly talented posters we have here in WPW.

But - boy am I glad that I am not technical - I guess I simply see SEO and SEM as one and the same thing - something changes (bought links) and I say 'Thank goodness I never did' but I can imagine the panic in some peoples eyes today - 'Have I got any paid links'? Diving in to the technical side of the site and deleting, deleting, checking SERP.

SEO is changing, blame the forums

[tamecrow]

I really have no idea, to be honest... I've always loved computers and the internet and I adore writing and text in general. Even writing in this little forum box gives me a real buzz!

The buzz of trying and testing new techniques and trying to make a site as natural as possible is something that really appeals to me and I get great pleasure out of on-page optimisation. Sad, but true!

[SEMSpot]

I see SEO as just a sub category for SEM. What I love best about it is the fact it is an ever evolving industry. Techniques might work one day, and the next they are worthless or in some cases harmful.

[coolguy27]

Originally Posted by mjtaylor

I started out as a web designer. I had a decent eye for layout but no great skill in graphic design. Fortunately my first employer taught me something about SEO – which was called search engine optimization then. I took a class online from Robin Nobles, and fell in love with this challenging aspect of web development.

Why? Because it appeals to my competitive nature, I suppose, and because I love to write (or edit) almost as much as I love to talk. I also love the constant change, the challenge can be stressful, but I am always being forced to learn something new and to stretch my skills.

What do you love about SEO?

The way I'm challenged to compete others through keywords and ranking it to SERPs...

That's what I love about SEO...

[dharrison]

I too started out as a web designer and only last year turned it into a separate service when it got more involved.

I love writing anyway, but I have found that I love making a difference to people's businesses (which has been good so far).

[suzstephens]

I'm primarily a graphic designer with a focus on Web site design. SEO is interesting to me. However, I'm honest with myself about not having the time to master it and stay on top of it, so I don't attempt to offer SEO services professionally. In general, however, I prefer Web site design to print design because it's always changing and even after 13 years of it, there's always something new to learn.

[SemAdvance]

I love telling a client I can get their site to the top and doing it!

Knocking other people out of the top terms!

Getting bonuses!

Everything SEO has afforded me!!!!!!!

oh

And being # 1 silly

[hyperdog]

I love building search rankings. Watching them grow is addictive, and I check them like it's an addiction on some sites - especially where we are trying something unique versus trenched-in competitors!

[RichAtVNS]

I have been doing it on and off for years and the truth is
I HATE IT....

I like making pieces of Art and Architecturial Products for use in the real
world where the the consumer sees, touches and compliments me on it when comparing it side by side with my competitors.

And anyone who has seen a computer system I have written in the past has thought they are elegant and effacable and referred me for more business.

Essentially I develop a product and advertise it in a few places and the those who have liked it have flocked to my door.

Now with the internet your exposure gets diluted by inferior product with a better writer and/or budget to place them ahead of you in search engines supposed natural listings.

The opnly reason I do it is because my competitors copy my products, and information and then hijack my intellectual property and sales because of it.

Get real unless you are selling SEO services or written material this is a real waste of monetary and work hour resources for other businesses.

I really long for the days when Yahoo was a structured direcory you drilled down through and was not taking search results by keyword density.

[leesw]

I love it because of the competition. Because it's like unraveling a mystery to figure out why another site is doing better. Because people on average don't have a clue how ranking well is so much better than spending a boatload on some magazine ad that most people are just going to flip by.

[incrediblehelp]

Yeah getting websites ranked high has a deep enjoyment all in its own. Just being able to work on a website for a month or two and see the pages start to go up is pretty gratifying.

I also like wearing pajamas to work.

[chrisJumbo]

I love the writing, the competition, the thrill of seeing results. Since, I have a full-time job I can't always stay on top of things, the basics have served us well.

[dburdon]

MJ,

I love the performance feedback. I've spent 30 years in marketing. For the first 25 there was little real tracking and measuring. Performance feedback was based on samples and surveys. With SEO, PPC and analytics we're getting real close to real time validation of marketing strategies and activities.

[jcisar]

Yes I too am a creative type which is why I excel at composing hot web designs and flash media which are both marketable and practical. I do enjoy devising and executing SEO strategies for client as I enjoy putting my critical thinking skills to task in ways which SEO allows me to do where designing require not nearly as much. SEO is like a flower which needs time and attention when done correctly. But hey I maintain a vegetable garden on my free time during the warmer months which is why I can say I also enjoy making cheese ball analogies...hehe

[cass-hacks]

I can't draw a straight line even when using a straight edge as a guide so the only enjoyment I can derive from the sites I build are how they perform.

Not only in advanced functions and features that they provide visitors but also generally good to great rankings for the site owners.

Also, along with dburdon, the metrics and feedback you can get regarding your methods is much greater than "old school" meat world marketing and also much greater than server access logs alone can provide. It is like an entirely new layer of data one can use to work with.

What I like best about SEO though are clients that prefer long term strategies over short term and likely only short term gains. Developing an SEO strategy for them is usually the easiest because it allows me to concentrate on search engine basics to build performance and reliability over the long haul. For clients that want results last week, trying to track down and understand the latest fad some client heard about while not knowing long term effects can be nerve wracking. All to often explanations as to why something might not be the best route to take fall on deaf ears.

Oddly enough or maybe not so odd, I find sites I work on for clients interested more in the long term doing better both long term and short term than sites where clients insist on things being done their way.

Maybe the biggest reason SEO interests me is that if one approaches it from the point of view of trying to understand what search engines' primary job is and how to best support them doing what they do, it often is not that hard.

Somewhat related, I find many of the things important for search engines are also important accessibility issues as well so doing one well often leads to doing the other well also without any extra work.

[Webnauts]

What I love about SEO is that it is not an Art or Science itself. And I suppose no one in this thread or elsewhere will agree to disagree with me.

SEO is just Advanced HTML with appropriate implementation (accessible & semantical markup/structure), basics in Web Semantics (XML), Robots rules and Apache of IIS configuration.

If you know all that, and you read and follow the search engines guidelines without trying to find out what can't they check at the moment, you can define yourself as an SEO.

Something like this:


Lets leave the off-page optimization stuff like PageRank, IBLs, PPC and Co, to the SEMs here.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

I also like wearing pajamas to work.

ME TOO!

[killerbeame]

it's like a detailed analytical little game. good fun!

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by killerbeame

it's like a detailed analytical little game. good fun!

Good fun? I think it is boring.

[webmax]

When a client I've done SEO for tells me he's made like 1000 times more than what he spent on my services... makes me happy, apart from wishing I had charged more.

[edhan]

I like to take it as a challenge to accomplish my goal. Life will be so boring if we do not have an objective or something to look forward to do so.

[tamecrow]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

I also like wearing pajamas to work.

Spot on, that man!

[chadhaajay]

Hello Mjtaylor,

The best think I like about SEO is the ability to get free top placements in major search engines. People are spending thousands of dollars per month to get visitors to thier websites however if they'd spent at SEO then they won't have to pay thousands monthly. Spending Time & money on SEO is a an investment in my view rather than an expenditure. Clicking trend of people is changing. they tend to view websites in organic search results rather than in PPC sponsored results.

[kayd]

My previous life was in ICT business support for small and medium sized businesses which caused a lot of frustration because i couldnt provide hands on support. When I realised the key to successful website was marketing it I was doing SEO before I knew what it was called. Things you need to implement and change just made sense. Now I give hands on support that makes a real difference to small businesses. When I see a struggling local website go from invisible to becoming a real threat to its fat cat competitor - that's my buzz.

i dont choose work for who pays the most or the best challenge, i work with nice people who are struggling and can't afford big agency fees, best are those who have been led a merry dance by idiots who dont understand SEO enough to charge for it and turning it around for them restoring their faith in 'IT people'.

oh i would put being able to choose not to work with horrible people alongside the working in pyjamas bonus

[tamecrow]

Originally Posted by kayd

When I see a struggling local website go from invisible to becoming a real threat to its fat cat competitor - that's my buzz.

Absolutely! That's one of the main reasons why I choose to work with small businesses and startups. To see that one-man-band challenging the big boys and taking away massive chunks of market share that they didn't even know existed. Viva la long-tail

[mjtaylor]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

I also like wearing pajamas to work.

Yep, still in my PJs now ...

Working at home is one of the things I love about my business; as is working on my own schedule; but of course, many SEOs work 9-5 in an office.

Cheers, MJ

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by mjtaylor

but of course, many SEOs work 9-5 in an office.

They should be ashame of themselves.

[Renegade]

+1 for:

Originally Posted by SemAdvance

And being # 1 silly

Love that!

Unfortunately, I'm usually stuck somewhere else in the top 10.

Still, I love when I can dominate results for generic search terms with my products. It's not at all uncommon for me to get in 20% of the top 100 results for some generic terms, but when I hit 2/3rds, I love that. I've got a bunch of image results where I've got anywhere between 10~35% of the results with my images on the first page. That just is a total rush.

I've got one term now where I'm at result #21 solidly with anywhere between 100~200 million results total (fluctuates a fair bit). I'm having a bit of a hard time climbing up there into the top 10. Still, it was fun getting to#21. (Took a good deal of prep time, but only took a day to get to #46 - climbed from there over 2 weeks to #21 - not moving much anymore now though.) I'll need to return to that term later to push it higher.

I suppose it's always just a rush to get top placements. Even more so when the terms are very competitive.

[dharrison]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

I also like wearing pajamas to work.

Isn't that funny? I could not stand to do that.

To distinguish between working and playing, I have recently taken to keeping my shoes on when I'm working. Its a psychological thing.

[espmartin]

I love the arguments. You tell someone that, "this SEO technique worked for me" - and
they'll say, "No it didn't... Prove it... I'm right and you're too n00b to be right."

Just kidding

I love the fact that SEO has opened up a whole new internet world to me. I've been
designing accessible websites, and for so long I just saw that benefit it brought to people.
Now I can see my results of accessibility playing out in SERPs (IMHO).

So SEO has opened my eyes to the monetary value of WAI (Web Accessibility Initiative)
requirements - and that is a sell-sell for people everywhere, disabled and non-disabled.

[mjtaylor]

I predict espmartin will be Webnauts new best friend!

[espmartin]

Webnauts, you're an accessible phreak too? Yes!

Funny how a few designers I've known during the past few years - those ones who made
fun of the "boring accessible sites" that I've helped to promote have now, within this past
year, come to me asking for "SEO help" - which in each case translates to on-page
optimization - which starts with re-building using semantic HTML and a keen eye for making
navigation/page structure "hum...yeah...can you make it accessible?"

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by espmartin

Webnauts, you're an accessible phreak too? Yes!

Funny how a few designers I've known during the past few years - those ones who made
fun of the "boring accessible sites" that I've helped to promote have now, within this past
year, come to me asking for "SEO help" - which in each case translates to on-page
optimization - which starts with re-building using semantic HTML and a keen eye for making
navigation/page structure "hum...yeah...can you make it accessible?"

My self and my team could not find anywhere on the web a solution to avoid labels in forms, without violating the guideline 31 of the Guidelines for Accessible and Usable Web Sites: Observing Users Who Work With Screen Readers.

On our site webnauts.net we managed that!!! We had a big party the night we have implemented our work. People here and elsewhere never have looked into accessibility, so they cannot understand what the whole thing is about. Many learn some HTML, some SE guidelines, read some articles and tutorials, or read posts in forums; Good or Bad? Who can tell for sure. I can. And then suddenly they call themselves SEOs or even better SEO Experts.

What you are saying in your posts is very clear to me what you want to explain. But you cannot explain a shoemaker, what is the <h1> tag for. Even W3C began to suck. They add on the pages their logo in an <h1> tag. But I am communicating with them about this issue.

Though, without W3C, we would not have the WWW, so SEO would not exist. What is SEO? SEO is not a profession. Its the nick name of Web Site Architecture.

What Web Architecture does? Create web sites/applications which are:

• Perceivable
• Operable
• Understandable
• Robust

Did you ever ask yourself why Google recommends the webmasters to use Lynx to test their pages? I am sure you would say you know. But maybe others not:

Search Engines suffer from the disability called: Blindness!

After all I would like to give you a tip:

Don't try to promote here web standards (valid markup, accessibility, etc). I am preaching here since 2003 and I have been only disappointed. Keep that stuff for yourself. People will wake up soon. In California it is already a state law, all online businesses should also meet the Section 508 requirements, and not only government sites.

When the other states will follow, as almost all european agreed already, we will see who will be able to remain in the SEO world and still be affordable for his clients.

This is my service I provide and will do in the future:


Nice to have you here and very nice to meet you. Why don't you drop me a PM?

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by espmartin

which starts with re-building using semantic HTML and a keen eye for making
navigation/page structure "hum...yeah...can you make it accessible?"

What is wrong with the semantical HMTL and structure, the accessibility, navigation/page structure of our web site seoworkers.com?

You can have a look what we have done so far here:

SEO Workers would appreciate review - SEO Workers

SEO Workers Web Site Technical Statement

SEO Workers Accessibility Policy

Enjoy!

[espmartin]

But you cannot explain a shoemaker, what is the <h1> tag for.

Of course, Joe Shoemaker will not understand nor care about semantics, accessifying,
even seo. That is why we take matters into our own hands, and market accessibility and
the corresponding monetary value of it, to everyone we know.

Don't try to promote here web standards (valid markup, accessibility, etc). I am preaching here since 2003 and I have been only disappointed. Keep that stuff for yourself. People will wake up soon. In California it is already a state law, all online businesses should also meet the Section 508 requirements, and not only government sites.

This advice is well taken, and the "preaching to the choir" note is also...noted.

I was told once by a former boss I had that I could not speak about a topic that was
very near to my heart (PC and all that jazz) - even on a platform that allowed that kind
of expression. I'll tell you what I told him years ago, "You can't make me shut up about it!"

I understand that web standards means zilch to many, many, many in our industry, and
advice on accessibility and semantically correct markup goes in one ear and out the
other, but that does NOT make the need to "Evangelize Standards" an less. In fact, it
fires me up to speak even more blatantly and...ok, preaching again to the choir...

I'll check out those links, and a PM awaits you soon Webnauts

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by espmartin

Of course, Joe Shoemaker will not understand nor care about semantics, accessifying,
even seo. That is why we take matters into our own hands, and market accessibility and the corresponding monetary value of it, to everyone we know.

Well I was active some years ago at sitepoint.com forums. and there accessibility was and is worshiped. I had there over 2000 posts and none about SEO. From my experience here, most members are not willing to hear about such stuff, and they even feel disturbed. And you can be sure that we are not many of our kind here. I almost dropped the topic here, and I tell when I am asked.

I was working at Lycos Europe and was preaching accessibility. No one wanted to hear that word, and they were making fun of me. You should have seen those faces 2 years later when the first accessibility law in Germany came out.

The same is now the TARGET Group story. Californian sites shall be accessible by law. Whatever...

Originally Posted by espmartin

I understand that web standards means zilch to many, many, many in our industry, and
advice on accessibility and semantically correct markup goes in one ear and out the
other, but that does NOT make the need to "Evangelize Standards" an less. In fact, it
fires me up to speak even more blatantly and...ok, preaching again to the choir...

I will support you where I can.

[vinay11111]

I love traffic and web stat analysis, seeing my site ranking in top 10 and blogging

[mjtaylor]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

Nice to have you here and very nice to meet you. Why don't you drop me a PM?

I am so glad I could introduce you two.

Webnauts, your preaching is not for naught. I have come to understand that accessibility is important not just for those who can't read, perhaps, but also for SEO. And I am going to take steps to learn more and to get my sites revised where needed!

Thanks, MJ

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by mjtaylor

I am so glad I could introduce you two.

Webnauts, your preaching is not for naught. I have come to understand that accessibility is important not just for those who can't read, perhaps, but also for SEO. And I am going to take steps to learn more and to get my sites revised where needed!

Thanks, MJ

Hey MJ, if you really want to do that, I am willing to help you any time and as much necessary!

[cass-hacks]

Originally Posted by mjtaylor

... accessibility is important not just for those who can't read, perhaps, but also for SEO.

Very true! More often than not, if you approach web design from an accessibility point of view, your SEO is practically done in the bargain with no extra effort required.

Although it will never happen, I wish ALL searches were based on first selecting from accessible sites and then ranking among those.

It will likely never happen because probably "90%" of the sites that currently exist would go "dark" and never be seen from again.

(90% simply meaning LOTS!)

One thing I like about coding a site from an accessibility point of view is that there are "standards" and not just a lot of guess work and wishy washy guidelines.

True, there do not yet exist accessibility standards in the true sense of the word "standard", i.e. ISO standards, and the current WAI guidelines are a bit hard to follow but they are like night and day as compared to all the guesswork that goes on with SEO based on the scant and unclear information we get from the search engines.

[mjtaylor]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

Hey MJ, if you really want to do that, I am willing to help you any time and as much necessary!

I do, I do! And that's a very generous offer ... I will take you up on that with a PM ...

Thanks! MJ

[amar]

Competing with competitors for top rankings.

[nottheusual1]

Just like sales, there is a certain "thrill of the kill" aspect to successful organic placements - reassertion of your place as owner of the top of the food-chain.

Like (probably too much) tearing the other guy's site apart to see what he is doing that is better than what we're doing.

Like wearing attire completely inappropriate for any formal office setting.

Love the commute (23 ft.).

[Webnauts]

I guess that our one year old web site is ranking better in Google's Accessible Search, because it is fully accessible: SEO Workers Ranking Report

[espmartin]

And I rank #18 for Web Standards within a sea of 53,300,000 competing sites.
And #10 for Web Design Standards within a sea of 21,500,000 competing sites.
And #4 for Web Standards in Design within a sea of 31,500,000 competing sites (Gotta love long tail phrases!).
And #8 for Web Standards Design within a sea of 181,000,000 competing sites.


All Orgainic SEO. In my opinion (YMMV ) the SERPs are due to having accessible, semantic HTML...

Sorry all, Webnauts link to his SERPs FORCED me to do this... I feel like a small fish
next to him - Kudos to you Webnauts!!!

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by espmartin

And I rank #18 for Web Standards within a sea of 53,300,000 competing sites.
And #10 for Web Design Standards within a sea of 21,500,000 competing sites.
And #4 for Web Standards in Design within a sea of 31,500,000 competing sites (Gotta love long tail phrases!).
And #8 for Web Standards Design within a sea of 181,000,000 competing sites.


All Orgainic SEO. In my opinion (YMMV ) the SERPs are due to having accessible, semantic HTML...

Sorry all, Webnauts link to his SERPs FORCED me to do this... I feel like a small fish
next to him - Kudos to you Webnauts!!!

According to Wordtracker, Overture and Keyword Discovery the term web standards is not a searched term. The term web design standards, web standards in design and web standards design either.

Now look at this:

My site webnauts.net rank #1 since over two years for the term skip to main content within an sea of 506,000,000 and there are all together 410 searches per month in the 3 major SE. And for the search term main navigation skip the same site ranks #3 out of 183,000,000 pages and has all together 410 searches per month in the 3 major SE.

I am sorry if I am not impressed about your rankings. No matter how many pages are indexed in the SE, if the terms you use are not searched, they are not competitive.

All keywords in my previous ranking report for my site seoworkers.com are searched terms. And my domain and site are one year old. Just to avoid any misunderstandings here.

[espmartin]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

According to Wordtracker, Overture and Keyword Discovery the term web standards is not a searched term. The term web design standards, web standards in design and web standards design either....

...I am sorry if I am not impressed about your rankings. No matter how many pages are indexed in the SE, if the terms you use are not searched, they are not competitive...

Funny, when I targeted those terms, KEI was high... Web Site Advertising #7 for
another of my sites. The site has changed, and no longer a "content site" - the site is
5 months old. But it was build upon standards and accessibility - w/no PPC, just organic
SEO. And that is my point: Accessibility = SEO.

When I researched that term, KEI was high too But anyway, I digress... enough of the
young buck against the OLD Bull (All in fun Webnauts)

[Webnauts]

I love the fact that you bring good vibrations in discussions here. And your humor man!

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by espmartin

Funny, when I targeted those terms, KEI was high... Web Site Advertising #7 for
another of my sites.

Members attention: POST IS OFF-TOPIC! PLEASE IGNORE IT IF YOU FEEL OFFENDED!!!
Since we are talking about keyword ensity, I will tell you a secret. Try to be max. 3%. I did tests my my own site man. Risky but it worked.

The ideal average is 2.75%-3% though. If lower it is not too bad, but the higher you go, the more decreases your rankings. Just a tip.