CSS hover menu keywords still spidered?

[joer80]

If my main navigation, product brands, is found on a hidden layer that is made visible on hover, will google still count them as keywords? Or will it not since the layer is hidden? Thanks!

[Dubbya]

No, they won't get counted as keywords.

To avoid spam, Google no longer indexes <div> tags marked "display:none" or "display:hidden".

If you're set on using a layered navigation menu, make sure you put your URL's in an XML sitemap file to that a spider can find the pages.

From an accessibility and usability standpoint, layered menus are a no-no. From an SEO point of view, it's much better to incorporate menus that a spider can read.

.02

[Orion]

Google will still follow the links in the 'hidden' menu. I'd have to defer to Dubbya as far as if they put weight on the keywords anymore in there.

Having said that, don't ever forget to submit a proper Google sitemap, and don't neglect a Yahoo site map submission too!

[hommealone]

Less than a year ago, I was assured by several WPW "veterans" that google did in fact consider text in display:hidden and display:none elements, because these are used so very often in legitimate DHTML applications in order to allow visitors to view more-or-less information when they choose to. Are you pretty sure that their "policy" has changed? Do you know when? Do they have any webmaster guidelines about this?

I'm guessing that many webmasters will be surprised and upset if they find out that google has stopped indexing chunks of their content. (Unless I'm just the last one to find out, and everyone else is over it already!)

I'll try to find those old threads about this, and post a link to them here if I can...

[hommealone]

Here's the link to the thread I was remembering:
"hidden" text without causing SE problem?
http://www.webproworld.com/showthread.php?t=56030
Sorry - I'm not sure how to go about linking to another thread!

Dubbya(!) said in that thread:

I think you misunderstand the term "hidden text" as it applies to search engines.

If I understand you correctly, what you're doing is changing the visibility of text inside <div> tags and that's not the same thing. Besides, most search engines don't pay attention to CSS styles anyway.

If what you're worried about were in fact an issue, ask yourself how a site like W3Schools Online Web Tutorials gets top ranking in Google. Their entire site is rife with "visibility:hidden" styles.

Hidden text refers to text that is colored the same as the page background, or even microscopic text, which is placed on a page in the expectation that search engines will read the text and give the page more relevance. Not a good idea in this day and age.

Using CSS and/or JavaScript to change the visibility of content between <div></div> tags won't harm your rankings or relevance score, that is to say, as long as the content isn't spamalicious text, totally unrelated to the page/site or simply a list of hyperlinks to link farms.

Go right ahead and use <div> tags with reckless abandon! Just make sure that the content between the tags belongs on your page.

Speed said:

Hiding text is a legitimate way for building CSS only menus and various other effects that can improve the user experience of a site. Search engines can't ban you just for using hidden in the style.

Stymiee wrote:

Hidden text will only get you banned if you are using it to manipulate the SERPs. Thousands or millions of pages use hidden text in legitimate ways (DHTML) without worry or penalty which is how it should be.

It's not the technique that's gets a site in trouble, it's the intention.

[Orion]

I was sure, like hommealone, that they still took the text in :hidden;
Anyone have a link in the google guidelines that says they no longer accept that?

[Webnauts]

See my post here: hidden text w images disabled?

And hidden elements (layers, text) are acceptable to SEs as long as those elements are meant to be seen and used by site visitors: CSS, AJAX, Web 2.0 and Search Engines

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

See my post here: hidden text w images disabled?

And hidden elements (layers, text) are acceptable to SEs as long as those elements are meant to be seen and used by site visitors: CSS, AJAX, Web 2.0 and Search Engines

Yes acceptable and crawled, but weighted the same as if they weren't?

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

Yes acceptable and crawled, but weighted the same as if they weren't?

Sure weighted the same.

[hommealone]

Dubbya, could you provide any more info about your statement:

Originally Posted by Dubbya

No, they won't get counted as keywords.

To avoid spam, Google no longer indexes <div> tags marked "display:none" or "display:hidden".

Curious minds would like to know!

[Orion]

I see no reference to Google not indexing <div> or anything styled :hidden or :none in the Google Webmaster guidelines.

[Dubbya]

Let me clarify my statement which was predicated on the assumption that the hidden layer was being used in a DHTML menu. This should have been determined prior to my making a blanket statement. My apologies for the panic inducing statement.

If you do use dynamically JavaScripted links in your DHTML menu (hidden layers), spiders can't read them. From a spider's perspective, they're useless and the spiders will ignore them.

If you're using DHTML menus with hidden layers and you're still seeing your pages included in the Google index, it's probably safe to say that you've done a few things to help a spider find your pages.

1. Indexed HTML files are at root level
2. A sitemap is linked to your homepage
3. Primary links lead to directories in which files are linked and those directories are indexed

If you want to use CSS and hidden layers, go right ahead, just make sure you're hard-coding them.

As others have pointed out, if you want to use DHTML menus with JavaScript dynamically generated layers, include a sitemap.

[Orion]

I think most people by now are using xhtml / css menus with the :hover selector. There's not a lot of reason to be using the DHTML still.

You can still use javaScript to hide / reveal your menu so long as the actual text and links are coded in the HTML section of the document (not dynamically)...

I really like your point though Dubbya:

Originally Posted by Dubbya

As others have pointed out, if you want to use DHTML menus with JavaScript dynamically generated layers, include a sitemap.

and it should also be extended to include Flash Menus!

[hommealone]

Dubbya: Thanks for the clarification!

Just as one more footnote, along these same lines, 'wige' once gave this helpful advise:

If you are worried about Google taking it wrong - and no one can really say how Googlebot might interpret your intent with the hidden text - might it be safer to mark the text with visibility:visible, and have a body onload javascript that as soon as the page is loaded switches the text to invisible? This gives the added advantage that users without javascript enabled, or using cell phones, etc. will still be able to see the text, and the search engine won't see anything as being hidden.

And I found this, from 'speed' helpful too, especially in combination with the previous quote:

If you don't want search engines to see that you have hidden text then use JavaScript in onload to change the class, not the style, of the elements that should be hidden.

You can even attach the event handlers to reveal the blocks within the .js file rather than using onclick etc within the element tag, there is then no indication that the text is anything but a linear block.

This also lets you keep your code clean, legible, and understandable for everyone; the code for content, style, and functionality are each separate - how tidy!