Can You Combine Writing Naturally and SEO Copywriting?

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by Narasinha

I suppose you should always think of your audience first. What do they expect to hear? In this respect, I think your audience probably searches in the same manner in which they read. Certain words or phrases are familiar to them, and that's what they expect to read, and that's probably what they search for.

I think this post answers all questions raised in this thread. You rule Dan!

[thepoacher]

I think so much of this depends on the product. In the travel industry so much web copy exactly fits these almost fanatically proscribed guidelines and as a consequence is just dull and gives barely any flavour of experience whatsoever.

[noel_x99]

I agree it has so much to do with the audience you are targeting. But I don't think you have to ignore the guidelines and write dull text.

I remembered reading an article by Karon Thackston (a web copy writer) that was a before and after on a travel site.

It's a little old now, but I found a reference to that article.

Making an Emotional Connection

I think it takes a skilled writer to do this, but it's optimized text and well-written text can be combined.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by mjtaylor

This thread has also moved up to 56 in G for 'writing for SEO' and to 156 for 'SEO copywriter.' which are searched terms ...

MJ

And today?

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

And today?

Getting filtered for another thread on this forum at #59 for "writing for SEO", with ZERO promotion for either and I didn't bother to check the other. I'm busy.

Your point?

Dave

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by crankydave

Getting filtered for another thread on this forum at #59 for "writing for SEO", with ZERO promotion for either and I didn't bother to check the other. I'm busy.

Your point?

Dave

My point is that new pages/sites rank high for a short time. Then when the battle is settled, they move to were they belong too.

It is a great temporally bait method though.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by mjtaylor

Is it possible to write naturally and optimize for the search engines? Yes, I think it is. Writing naturally means writing for the human visitor and not for the search engines – but it doesn’t mean you forget your keywords or skip the keyword research. It means the focus is on readability and the usefulness of the content for the visitor and not on getting your keywords into the content as many times as possible. Focus on what you want to say, create an outline (at least in your head, and better on paper) then write.


When you sit down to write content for your website or blog, and keep your focus on the topic, your outline and creating an article or post with a beginning, middle and end, your copy will naturally include the keywords and synonyms relevant to your topic – if you really know your subject. That’s natural optimization. Once your copy is written, then edit it to see where you can add your keywords and have the copy still sound natural. Look for ways to use the synonyms, related terms and stems.


For example, stems of fishing are fish, fished, fishes, fishy. Related terms would be lakes, sea, bass, trout, marlin, boat, tackle, angling.


It helps to get someone else to look it over and see if you’ve overdone your target terms anywhere. And sleep on it. A fresh look the next day or a few days later may help you edit out the fluff and tighten your copy. Return to your outline before you publish. It will probably give you natural sub headings, breaking up the copy and making it more readable. Chances are those sub headings will also contain your keywords or related terms, and used in h2 or h3 tags, will help optimize your page for the search engines.

Do:

• Put your keyword once in the title, once in the meta keyword tag and once in the meta description tag;
• Put your keyword once in the heading of the page;
• Put your keyword once in the first sentence – but probably no more than once in any given paragraph.

Any more tips on writing naturally and optimizing for the search engines?

I think the discussion is not over. Jill Whallen published yesterday an interesting article about this issue:
Avoiding Clueless-Is As Clueless-Does SEO

I advise you all to have a look at it.

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

I think the discussion is not over. Jill Whallen published yesterday an interesting article about this issue:
Avoiding Clueless-Is As Clueless-Does SEO

I advise you all to have a look at it.

I don't think the discussion will ever be over and I'm not the least bit surprised that Jill is in support of writing naturally for SEO, the same idea MJ started this thread with...

Originally Posted by mjtaylor

Is it possible to write naturally and optimize for the search engines? Yes, I think it is. Writing naturally means writing for the human visitor and not for the search engines – but it doesn’t mean you forget your keywords or skip the keyword research. It means the focus is on readability and the usefulness of the content for the visitor and not on getting your keywords into the content as many times as possible. Focus on what you want to say, create an outline (at least in your head, and better on paper) then write.

Originally Posted by Jill Whalen

...Algorithms are determined by what the average person who knows nothing about SEO would naturally do on their website when putting it together...

It’s not a bad thing to think about SEO when designing your site. In fact, it’s a great thing. But only if you use your brain and your common sense at the same time. Always think about the reasons why you’re doing what you’re doing. When you do that, you’ll find it much easier to know exactly what to put on your site and where to put it.

Dave

[Webnauts]

Dave I have have a question:

If search engines algorithms are determined by what the average person who knows nothing about SEO would naturally do on their website when putting it together, what is the role and practices of a SEO Copywriter? If I see that profession title, I think it is about optimizing a copy for search engines.

Do you also see the contradiction?

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

Dave I have have a question:

If search engines algorithms are determined by what the average person who knows nothing about SEO would naturally do on their website when putting it together, what is the role and practices of a SEO Copywriter? If I see that profession title, I think it is about optimizing a copy for search engines.

Do you also see the contradiction?

Nope. I see no contradictions.

To me, writing naturally, what an average person might write, means not allowing tools to dictate exactly what and more importantly how, you write just because the tool "says so".

Nor does it mean to totally ignore SEO when you're writing.

The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. Being able to combine the 2, writing naturally while taking into consideration SEO aspects in the best possible manner.

Dave

[Webnauts]

Dave can you explain which are those SEO aspects which should be taken into consideration?

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

Dave can you explain which are those SEO aspects which should be taken into consideration?

Are you saying you don't know?

Dave

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by crankydave

Are you saying you don't know?

Dave

I am sure that you aware of the fact that almost no one agrees with my practices in general. I assume that the reason is because before I began with SEO I was expertizing in accessibility, usability and web semantics .

So what I was just asking is, which are the general considerations of SEOs when it comes to content optimization for search engines? Does the question sound weird? It is not.

Why? I cannot think about any practices that can be classified as content SEO or copywriting SEO. I only know online journalism, and that's it. I am honest here Dave.

If someone will start talking about those old school techniques, like the keywords must be placed on the top, at the middle and at the bottom of the page, and will call that content/copywritting search engine optimization, then I am afraid that I will have to laugh man.

I am convinced that content should written for humans (user, buyers, etc) and not for Robots with Artificial Intelligence. And if it should be for such robots, GoogleBot is still not one them. Or? And if GoogleBot will be one day, I do not think that we will not need to optimize. Or? So what do you understand with the term content/copywritting search engine optimization?

[crankydave]

So your issue is with MJ's signature, your interpretation of it, and not what is being discussed in this thread.

Dave

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by crankydave

So your issue is with MJ's signature, your interpretation of it, and not what is being discussed in this thread.

Dave

No Dave. It is established web wide. See here: seo copywriting - Google Search

296,000 web sites.

Thread title is: Can You Combine Writing Naturally and SEO Copywriting?

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

No Dave. It is established web wide. See here: seo copywriting - Google Search

296,000 web sites.

Thread title is: Can You Combine Writing Naturally and SEO Copywriting?

When was the last time you read this...

"http://www.seoworkers.com/seo-articles-tutorials/search-engine-optimization.html"

Agrees with much of the very same thing being discussed in this thread.

Let's take just a few quotes from this thread as well...

Originally Posted by mjtaylor

Yes, I think it is. Writing naturally means writing for the human visitor and not for the search engines – but it doesn’t mean you forget your keywords or skip the keyword research.

Originally Posted by Feydakin

The best copyrighting needs to fulfill several goals..

1. It needs to be easy to comprehend
2. It needs to promote conversion whether that is a sale, a click, or an idea.
3. It needs to be found

Originally Posted by thegypsy

I think it is almost ESSENTIAL to write less around KW Density and think more related words/terms and concepts

Originally Posted by CrankyDave

I tended to agree with you then, still do, that by "making your point" through related phrases, concepts, and ideas, (sounds "natural" to me), rather than by repeating yourself over and over again (density?) you'll stand a far better chance of being considered more important

Originally Posted by webnauts

Too high keyword density can trigger spam filter. What is too high? When the copy becomes unnatural

And I could continue...

The majority of the posts in this thread are echoing the same sentiment.

The only problem I see you having is the use of SEO and copywriting being used together based upon how you've chosen to define it. And the only person I see you having a problem with using the two together is MJ REGARDLESS of the message that is being conveyed.

Get over it.

Dave

[Webnauts]

Dave,

the techniques below are pure web design techniques. Every link leads to the guidelines of the organization (W3C) which found the markup languages and accessibility techniques we use to design web sites.

1. The <title> element in HTML is designed to provide a short piece of text that should stand for the document.

2. Use <h1> is the HTML element for the first-level heading of a document.

3. Use of Headings are the HTML elements to structure your document.

4. Providing equivalent alternatives to auditory and visual content.

5. Clarifying natural language is markup that facilitates pronunciation or interpretation of abbreviated or foreign text.

6. Providing clear navigation systems - orientation information, navigation bars, a site map, etc. -- to increase the likelihood that a person will find what they are looking for a