CSS Destroyed My Rankings

pebblez · #1 (**permalink**) 03-05-2007, 03:03 PM

I had used a table based design for years, and I had good rankings on all of my keywords. Recently i changed over to a pure css design including the use of h1 tags, divs instead of cells, the whole works.

When the site was finished I uploaded it to the web and waited. A week later my rankings started dropping. First they dropped in google. Then they started dropping in yahoo. Msn has been fine, but who cares.

Can anyone tell me what I've done wrong?
The new site can be seen at http://pebblez.com
One page of the old site can be seen at http://pebblez.com/index2.html

I really appreciate any advice you can give me. Thanks

Dubbya · #2 (**permalink**) 03-05-2007, 03:37 PM

Changing your site from table-based layout to pure CSS is a MAJOR change.

Google seems not to appreciate major site-wide changes as they're usually indicative of spam. If your text to code ratio has changed significantly, Google might be worried that your domain has been overtaken by yet another spammy advertiser.

Most often, they'll penalize these sites to discourage this sort of thing, so this might be what you're experiencing. Resubmit your site map and your rankings should pick up after a few weeks.

My site went AWOL for six weeks until I resubmitted my sitemap and sent an email requesting reinclusion in the Google index, so that's something else you can do.

Give it some time. It takes a few weeks to be reincluded, so use that time to fine tune your SEO efforts and get everything ship-shape.

Here's a handy article that might be of some help:
http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/reincl...request-howto/

**incrediblehelp** · #3 (**permalink**) 03-05-2007, 06:21 PM

Besides the table and CSS code nothing else has changed?

1. Content?
2. URLs?
3. New competitors?

Google has been updating in the past few weeks as well.

I have changed plenty of websites over. The only time I really see major drops is when URLs switching is not handled properly.

**incrediblehelp** · #4 (**permalink**) 03-05-2007, 06:28 PM

As most know here I am not a big fan of text to code being that important in the overall SEO side of things. Here is recent post from WPN's Joe Lewis that discusses it more:

Can Coding Affect Your Search Ranking

pebblez · #5 (**permalink**) 03-05-2007, 09:08 PM

First thank you both for your help.

Thats whats so weird! I did not change any of the words, or pictures. The URL's are all exactly the same, and its definitely not added competition that is doing this to me, some of my keywords im losing 200 spots. I even added a few pages of content to fill out spots that were lacking

and I think my code to content ratio should be better now...although I could be analyzing it wrong

I just can't see why doing everything right, making the site more accessible, faster loading, and giving it cleaner code, should cause a significant drop in rankings. Stupid me I thought it might even help...a little

**incrediblehelp** · #6 (**permalink**) 03-05-2007, 10:16 PM

Do you know how much your link totals and quantity have changed in the past 6-12 months?

Gary Golden · #7 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 07:21 AM

It has not effected my rankings, checked your site seems alright, noticed that you do not have a site-map, I link to my site map on all pages.

> Noticed that you do link to your main page on all pages.

I have been off google for months now with-in the last several day I am back though I spent the last couple of weeks making sure that every page linked back to my main page and whola, at the top of GOOGLE again though do not know how long that will last and I also use CSS on both of my sites.

pebblez · #8 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 10:32 AM

IBL's? I gain about 100 a month these days according to yahoo. As far as my sites linking structure I didn't really change it, although I did make a standard nav bar for every section of my site, which has made things a little more uniform.

As far as a sitemap I have a google site map (am looking for a decent ROR sitemap generator) I also link to my homepage from every page.

I do have a theory and if someone could take a look at this I would really appreciate it. In my header I have an H1 tag around the first text on the page, and its just about the first thing that shows up in the code. At the top of the header div I have a black picture background and at the bottom I have set the background to just be white. The text in the H1 is black and would show up against that black background, but I have added margins to the H1 to move it down.

Could the search engines inability to read the css margins on my H1 cause them to think I'm hiding black text against a black picture in an H1 tag right at the top of my page? Can google even tell the picture is black?

I would really appreciate any feedback on this.

Seopro · #9 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 02:37 PM

This took me about 2 minutes to find your problem. Doing your website in CSS is not enough. Go to the W3C and validate your code. You have 36 errors on your front page. Fix those and I bet your rankings will improve
Don
Seopro

**incrediblehelp** · #10 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seopro

This took me about 2 minutes to find your problem.

Care to share exactly what that is? Simply saying validate code is pretty vague.

Seopro · #11 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 03:04 PM

The W3C has an html validator on their site. Bring that up and type in or paste your URL in the top box and it will show you how many errors on the page. I do this with every page I upload. You can also check the code by uploading a file to the validator before it is uploaded.
Don

**incrediblehelp** · #12 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 03:12 PM

Yeah Ii know, but you said you identified their problem. Having non-valid code doesnt stop you from being indexed or being ranked at the top of the SERPs.

Seopro · #13 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 03:38 PM

I think all search engines are members of the W3C and I believe they will place a site written in standards above a site that is not with all things being equal. I have never failed to put a site in the top 10 that had valid code. That has just been my observation. On one key phrase affordable seo company oregon I have #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #10 even though there is hardly any competition. On affordable web design company (yahoo) I have been #1 for 14 months with valid code. And on google I have a #1 with a PR2 ahead of a PR6 because I have valid code and he does not. I have notice this several times with not just myself but with other designers that use web standards.
We all have our own ideas which is great and that is why I joined this forum. I will learn something from others if I take part in the discussions and hopefully I have some knowledge to pass on to others.

**incrediblehelp** · #14 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 03:42 PM

I agree seopro, valid code is better than not. My point was only that you said the reason why pebblez rankings are tanking was because of in-valid code. I dont believe that to be true.

Seopro · #15 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 03:51 PM

That brings up another subject that Matt Cutts did not answer in his blog but it is a possibility. Does a search engine skip over some or all invalid code so it is not indexed? My search engine spider did but I do not think that is proof because other times it will index things. Will google's spider skip over id="row" when it shows up more than once? If you use class="row" then it will read it correctly. I don't think there is a way to find that question out other than a wild guess. LOL now you have me thinking and I am not use to doing that.
Don
Seopro

BigOakSEO · #16 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 04:24 PM

I just did a check in Google for a term on your site, Glowing Stone Onyx, and you were number one in Google. Maybe during this latest update period you are seeing a datacenter that doesn't have you in mix. I'm on the east coast and your rankings look okay. Was there a particular term you were checking?

krisidious · #17 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 04:29 PM

my site was sitting about 57th in the rankings for the term "House Plans" and about 30th for the term "Custom House Plans" I was recently convinced to rebuild by the folks here at WPW...

with some key help from a certain "justtryingtohelp" I switched my site from imagemap navagation to CSS...

I also fixed a lot of small html errors...

now I sit at 47 for the term "House Plans"
and I rank 4th for the term "Custom House Plans"

I would look elsewhere for the loss in rank...

corvettehunt · #18 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 04:32 PM

1 - There are many errors that need to be fixed. Use the W3C validator:
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://pebblez.com

You jumped your error count from 7 to 36.

2 - Trim your spaces. You got text that is broken by linebreaks all over the place, that in your original page where ok. I.E:
"Rustic
Stone Home Decor"
Instead of:
"Rustic Stone Home Decor"

Basically you are losing a lot of keywords because of that, for you won't rank anymore for "rustic stone", "rustic stone home", or any derivatives. The same happens all over the place!

---------
Fix those 2 points (which is fairly simple to do BTW), and wait for the next reindexation. You should do a lot better... good luck ;)

iany · #19 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 04:32 PM

There has to be something other than changing to tableless design at work here. I have changed plenty sites from table design to CSS over last year and have had no problems with Google rankings. Quite the opposite. Have tended to gain a few places - unless already no 1 :0).

Having had a look at the source code, I am not surprised the html doesn't validate. You need to read up on use of divs in CSS. You cannot have more than one div id of the same name. (div class yes)

Ian

weslinda · #20 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 04:33 PM

Maybe Google decided that they didn't like any web sites using Yahoo Hosting. Pointing all over the place in your site to a Yahoo cart could make google mad. If you use Google Checkout, maybe you'll be first for all of your terms.

Okay, all kidding aside. I would recommend a cleanup of code. This is just good design, may or may not help in regards to your rankings.

Second, I would recommend trying to find your own cart for all checkouts. This simply will allow all content and visitors to stay on your site.

Third, I would review matching up your title's to your <h1> to your linking structure, as this should help as well.

Finally, I would look at privacy and security issues. Make sure your site has a privacy policy. P3P if you can put the time into it.

Oops, one more thing, make sure your pages have plenty of content, major changes to a site can spell trouble if there isn't a marked improvement in the site.

dux · #21 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 04:33 PM

It looks like you are using div id tags on multiple occassions in the same document, such as <div id="general2of3">

i believe you can only use a div id tag once, whereas you can use div class tags as many times as you like. you need to validate your page using a html validator. the returning document will list the errors you need to fix.

i changed from tables to css and my rankings increased, but the site validated.

SemAdvance · #22 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 04:37 PM

Design styling will have no effect on search rankings.

Poor html code however will trip up a search robot faster than any other issue involved with your site.

Instead of focusing on which issue caused the drop look at all issues and fix them.

Poor coding?? then validate, no sitemap? add one, poor interpage linking? fix it...there are over 100 parts to the algorithms not 1.

Whatever you do to improve your site will most often have a resultant improvement to your bottom line.

Also check domain regi