Should you optimize your images/videos for search engines?

[Webnauts]

There are many discussions on the web, that optimizing images for SEO is not necessary. Also that optimizing videos is not a duty of SEOs.

About the images, many say that using alt attributes, etc are irrelevant when it comes to SEO.

Is that true? Read these excellent article/tutorial http://searchenginewatch.com/showPage.html?page=3624327 and http://searchenginewatch.com/showPage.html?page=3624257 and find our yourself.

Join this discussion. There might come up more techniques here than mentioned in those articles.

[kgun]

On every new page I make, I use the alt attribute with descriptive text on images.

[internet-marketing-cr]

webnauts I optimized every image on the websites I work with, that is a way to get traffic from SE, from people that are looking for images, I have noticed on the logs on some of the websites I work with that a good amount of traffic is comming from this type of search.

[Chris]

upon reading this, you discover there is very little "optimization" when it comes to images besides naming them logically and the use of alt tags.

image originality isn't necessarily something an ecommerce site can address unless you want them to constantly update their catalog pages - a monumental task when you consider the size of some these dynamic shopping sites.

as for the tagging aspect - this is a moot point unless you are using blog software... and you don't really have any control when it comes to expanding your audience. either they visit or they don't. there isn't a way to MAKE them come no matter how fresh your images are. so again, this doesn't apply to optimization because you optimize what you can control.

file organization is a given considering the search engines already put emphasis on this when it comes to website crawling.

image usability actually applies but that's up to the developer. if you are putting a site out there and the users can't access the images because of design mistakes, then yes, fix it. but it should've been fixed before the site launched. i don't consider an aspect that i already consider important to be an optimization task.

these type of tasks fix existing issues. if your image isn't accessible, that's not optimization when you fix it, that's correcting a design mistake...

[meinking22]

Originally Posted by Chris

upon reading this, you discover there is very little "optimization" when it comes to images besides naming them logically and the use of alt tags.

Out of all of the image searching I've done, very little, if any, of the results even utilized the alt tag. The majority of the results I've seen were pulled from related content around the image.

Originally Posted by Chris

image originality isn't necessarily an ecommerce site can address unless you want them to constantly update their catalog pages - a monumental task when you consider the size of some these dynamic shopping sites.

Image originality is a very interesting issue. Your point about ecommerce images is a good one, and also the fact that theme related websites seem to recycle the same images. I deal a lot with the real estate industry, and the majority of images I run across are the same stock images used by different companies and designers over and over. Web designers should get extra points for prodding their clients to provide fresh images.

Similar to images, video searching is really becoming huge. What are the optimization recommendations for that type of content?

Steve

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by meinking22

What are the optimization recommendations for that type of content?

Look here: http://searchenginewatch.com/showPage.html?page=3624257 and if all don't mind, I will update now the title of the discussion and my my first post including optimizing videos too.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by meinking22

Out of all of the image searching I've done, very little, if any, of the results even utilized the alt tag. The majority of the results I've seen were pulled from related content around the image.

I think we are discussing about images optimization. So what I do as an SEO, I check if the alt or title attributes are done appropriately. If not there is where optimization begins.

For example you said that the majority of results you've seen were pulled from related content around the image.

What do you expect that the search engine will do, when I have 10 images on a page, and all of them with the same alt attribute? What many people do. Trying to achieve the best in terms of the SEO Myth, as for example keyword density to boost rankings.

On then other hand the are visible images for decorative purposes do not even have the empty or null alt attribute, and these meaningless images with be indexed with an irrelevant to the context of the image.

Or what about the cases the images are links? Using irrelevant alt or title attributes for the images to the content/context of the hyperlinked page. Shouldn't those images be optimized?

[thegypsy]

Yo Webs.. how's things? Woulda been back sooner.. took a little R&R

As always, I shall give it a 'nyaahhh' while it is 'technically correct, I generally don't get fussy about it and sites rank fine...

So once I have a reason to be concerned about it ( o accessible one) I don't give it a great deal of thought...

Do I do them often? No - Is it 'technically' correct to use them - sure

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by thegypsy

Do I do them often? No - Is it 'technically' correct to use them - sure

This topic is more a Marketing issue than a technical. :)

[Webnauts]

An another question:

How can Google Images Search interpret the meaning of my web site images?

Google says:
[google]Our crawler doesn't recognize text contained in graphics.[/google]

What is the trick to get my images crawled and indexed with their meaning (description) properly?

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by Chris

these type of tasks fix existing issues. if your image isn't accessible, that's not optimization when you fix it, that's correcting a design mistake...

OK. Let me be a bit more explicit. I guess since the topic here is about optimizing images or videos, we are dealing with on-site optimization. Right?

So you are the SEO, right? You see that the sites pages have no title headers <h1> tags.

What do you say there? That is a design mistake? Well then why do I need an SEO? I can get that help from a designer, who could help me with lot less money.

I guess I got your point though what you mean about the design and optimizing difference.

But isn't it your duty as an SEO, to tell where design mistakes are, for example like the ones I mentioned above?

What is the duty of an SEO. To ensure the best semantics of a web site, so the software of the search engines can access and preceive, not only understand what you have there, and what are you all about anyway. :)

[thegypsy]

Well hey then - from a marketing and usability standpoint I am with ya - he he

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by thegypsy

Well hey then - from a marketing and usability standpoint I am with ya - he he

Then you are with me with accessibility too! Do you know why?

By the way what is accessibility for? It is a bunch of techniques which can ensure that your web site is for your visitors:

* Perceivable;
* Operable;
* Understandable;
* Robust.

What is usability for? It is a bunch of techniques which can ensure that your web site is for your visitors:

* Quick and easy to learn;
* Efficient to use;
* Allows rapid recovery from errors;
* Easy to remember.

And I am asking myself: If all above requirements are fulfilled, what is left over for an SEO to do, when it comes to on-site search engine optimization?

Then I answer myself: NOTHING!

[kgun]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

And I am asking myself: If all above requirements are fulfilled, what is left over for an SEO to do, when it comes to on-site search engine optimization?

Then I answer myself: NOTHING!

There I have to disagree John. SEO is in my view much more. Professional SEO is a combination of art and science. It is more than design, valid code, mark up, accessibility and usability.

[Webnauts]

Kgun can you tell me what did I miss above for on-site search engine optimization?

[kgun]

Only one very fast answer. The discussion on the long tail of SEO, that is finding low hanging fruit or KW's with high usage and low competition and building content and a "link bait" around this using the inverted pyramide style and writing for the web so other webmasters link to your pages / sites.

You can of course argue that this is implicite in your points above and that it is enough for SEO optimizing your images and videos. In my personal opinion, when I read your above post, I got a feeling that SEO is something else. I stress, that is my personal opinion. Other members may have other comments and opinions.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by kgun

Only one very fast answer. The discussion on the long tail of SEO, that is finding low hanging fruit or KW's with high usage and low competition and building content

Isn't his web content accessibility issue?

Originally Posted by kgun

"link bait" around this using the inverted pyramide style

Isn't his a usability issue?

Originally Posted by kgun

writing for the web so other webmasters link to your pages / sites.

Isn't this a web content accessibility issue?

Originally Posted by kgun

You can of course argue that this is implicite in your points above and that it is enough for SEO optimizing your images and videos.

That is not all. For example, semantical code, structure and navigation, etc are also issues included.

Side note: We are only talking here about on-site search engine optimization.

Originally Posted by kgun

In my personal opinion, when I read your above post, I got a feeling that SEO is something else.

SEO is something else than others are preaching. I never understood how people can sell SEO, without have any idea about how computers, software or web sites work after all.

Originally Posted by kgun

I stress, that is my personal opinion. Other members may have other comments and opinions.

I am sure that other members might come up with comments against all this this, for the reasons I prefer to avoid to mention. And if they do have another opinion, they have all my respect, but I still hope they can backup their opinion with technical facts, as all search engines are software running on computers.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

So you are the SEO, right? You see that the sites pages have no title headers <h1> tags.

What do you say there? That is a design mistake? Well then why do I need an SEO? I can get that help from a designer, who could help me with lot less money.

i didn't know we were talking about H1 tags, so expanding your point here is kinda confusing, but nevertheless, all of the things i mentioned about images are things i learned LONG before i learned SEO (using alt tags, naming conventions, etc.).

these are important components of design - NOT JUST SEO. now, surrounding the image with SEO-friendly content is about the only aspect of image optimization i'd consider to be actual SEO... the rest should be done regardless if you are targeting search engines or not.

[kgun]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

SEO is something else than others are preaching. I never understood how people can sell SEO, without have any idea about how computers, software or web sites work after all.

John, I fully agree to that. To stress why I agree ont that. Here are two links:

1. Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006: SEO is design, good code and content. What is SEM?
2. Thu Jul 06, 2006:
   Advanced SEO is about understanding SE algorithms, how SE's index sites / pages and about writing SE friendly Web pages and SR friendly URL's

Your points are important as part of an overall SEO strategy. But advanced SEO is much more as my posts above indicate. The real SEO expert takes a site / page to top 10 / 100 position on very competitive KW's like Forex trading. That does not mean that I link to that site. I may even regard it as a spam site, since the SE's and I consider spam different in my profession, finance and economics.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by Chris

i didn't know we were talking about H1 tags, so expanding your point here is kinda confusing...

I honestly thought so Chris. Blame on me... ;)

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by kgun

Your points are important as part of an overall SEO strategy. But advanced SEO is much more as my posts above indicate. The real SEO expert takes a site / page to top 10 / 100 position on very competitive KW's like Forex trading.

I do not see the existence of basic or advanced SEO.

I rather define all that as on-site and off-site SEO. And both together make SEM.

Correct me if I am wrong. :)

About spam, I think we are on the same bottom-line. ;)

[kgun]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

I do not see the existence of basic or advanced SEO.

I rather define all that as on-site and off-site SEO. And both together make SEM.

John, so you do not see the difference between a high school degree, a bachelors degree, a master degree ... :-)

Did you read the posts in the above links? I think there are few SEO professors here. May be I am at the bachelor level after having studied SEO for about three years :-)

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by kgun

John, so you do not see the difference between a High School degree, a Bachelors degree, a master degree ... :-)

Semantical Markup & Structure = High School Graduate
Web Navigation = Associate
On-site SEO = Bachelor
Off-site SEO = Master
SEM = PhD

Or something like that.

[Webnauts]

I just found a nice tutorial for optimizing images for Google, for the ones who might need that: http://blog.tn38.net/archives/2006/1...o_promote.html

[Webnauts]

Poor Google: http://images.google.com/imagelabeler/

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by Chris

now, surrounding the image with SEO-friendly content is about the only aspect of image optimization i'd consider to be actual SEO... the rest should be done regardless if you are targeting search engines or not.

The only aspect? http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?p=346457

[Webnauts]

Also what about this? http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic...=346601#346601

[Chris]

why are you pointing out semantical differences nauts? contextual linking has always been a part of good SEO, whether you are linking to an image or not.

what, exactly, is the point of these last two posts... besides the obvious, that is?