Nightmare SEO Clients

optimalwebsite · #1 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 04:57 AM

Hi there,

A while back i started putting together a website for a nightmare client.... I mention no names here, for obvious reasons. It started off as a way to lend a hand to a friend. That's how it started anyway.

Two meetings later and we'd finally agreed a design for him. Wrote lots of optimised copy for him. Which he then deleted, changed and rewrote. Sorted out 5 good quality link swaps... which he then took down. More meetings. More 7 o-clock (its too late for this, please leave me in peace) phonce calls. two more meetings. More changes of prices for no apparent reason. More rewriting copy... then.... he asks, for no apparent reason, "how can we get a higher ranking then?"

GRRRRRR!

I bit my tounge and didn't say anything...

The moral of the story seems to be be:

A) Don't work for friends.
B) Ask for more money!

Joel

Steven1976a · #2 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 05:09 AM

I think the moral of the story should be

Have a contract of what your going to do for them.
Once you have done the jobs you say to them if they then change everything and want you to fix it simply draw up a new contract with new rates.

optimalwebsite · #3 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 06:02 AM

Contract? It started out just helping a friend... it would be like having a contract to feed your neighbours cat when they were on holiday!

Joel

Steven1976a · #4 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 06:10 AM

"B) Ask for more money! "

Do you charge to look after his cat when hes on holiday?

If its only help then why continue. Just walk away from it and tell him your busy with other stuff. Maybe give him advice over a beer in a bar and leave him to it as he is obviously feels he knows best.

stymiee · #5 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by optimalwebsite

Contract? It started out just helping a friend... it would be like having a contract to feed your neighbours cat when they were on holiday!

Joel

That's why you are having problems. When doing work for anybody a contract is required. If they really are your friend they will understand.

optimalwebsite · #6 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 11:06 AM

are you guys telling me THAT NO-ONE ELSE HERE HAS EVER HAD A BAD CLIENT??? One with completely unrealistic expectations, no budget, and then doesn't pay your invoice anyway?

Come on you guys, fess up!

Joel

Feydakin · #7 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 01:49 PM

Everyone has had unrealistic clients.. Those are the ones that you fire.. And yes, any time money is changing hands there really needs to be a contract.. It doesn't always need to be a formal lawyer written document, but at least an outline of the job requirements and goals, with metion of payment milestones..

As for the unpaid invoice, that's what small claims court is for if you don't mind loosing the friend.. Which, by not paying your bill he seems perfectly comfortable with..

**Ne0** · #8 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 02:39 PM

The only nightmare clients I've ever had... were the ones that didn't want to sign a contract, and wanted to pay FAR under bid for the job to be done...

I have done three sites for people I've known for 20+ yrs (and each was more than happy to sign the contract) I also gave each of them a discount - but I was still paid well for my services...

.02

ran_dizolph · #9 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 04:04 PM

I'm going to be blunt;

a.) your friend sounds like a bit of an ass...you may want to reconsider this 'friendship' if this is the sort of person he/she is.

b.) you don't seem to have come outright and let your friend know where you stand.

i don't care how good of friends you are, you are providing him with a service which you agreed he would pay for.

if he's not paying up, walk away!

next time, write up a contract. i just did a fairly decent sized project for a good friend, and he had NO issues with me producing a contract for the work, simply outlining how much he would pay me, and how much work i would provide for him in exchange.

NameCritic · #10 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 04:06 PM

The statement about firing clients was dead on. every now and then it's just better to kick one to the curb than to stress over it. The ones you try to kick to the curb are the ones who come back and play nice next time because they know they need you more than you need them.

It's not an attitude issue. if the client keeps making changes to your work then why did they hire you in the first place. I don't let clients tell me how to do my job. I spell out what I am going to do for them and for how much and ask when they want me to start. I usually do extra for them if they leave me alone and let me do my job.

reminds me of a sign i saw in a mechanic's shop.

labor; $10/hr
$15 if you watch
$20 if you help.

iwebgeek · #11 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NameCritic

T

reminds me of a sign i saw in a mechanic's shop.

labor; $10/hr
$15 if you watch
$20 if you help.

Haha! We had a sign like that when I used to work at a photo retouching place.

It went something along these lines...

Retouch: $35/hr
If you talk: $40/hr
If you point: $45/hr
If you look over our shoulders: $50/hr
If you try to help: $60/hr

Irishjim · #12 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 04:13 PM

This sounds like every client I have.

craigmn3 · #13 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 04:17 PM

C-o-m-m-u-n-i-c-a-t-i-o-n

Don't bite your tounge. Speak

You are the professional. Tell your friend that if he wants a high ranking he's going to have to do what you want. He "hired" you to do a job, tell him to let you do your job or he's on his own.

and then if he is a friend....he will still be a friend. If not, he never really was.

tsawyer2000 · #14 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 04:41 PM

Do business with family or friends. It will bite you in the ass every time!

nerdDesignGroup · #15 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 04:45 PM

Sounds like a CEO. Hired me to do a job and I produced, but wanted to change my methods, helping is fine, but if you are in the field your friend should give the benifit of the doubt. And if you have a track record - there you go. Firing customers is easier if it isn't your friend. I would recommend, since you don't have a contract, which you should have :-) , is to give him/her all of your source code and tell them you will have a beer with them as previously stated to give pointers and tell them you have another client who is paying well to work with.

And next time tell him an hourly rate and charge for them being on hold. (well thats mean, but lawyers get away with it)

blitzen · #16 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by optimalwebsite

A) Don't work for friends.
B) Ask for more money!

That's the truth.

Unless they're paying for it, they won't gain anything. And they certainly won't appreciate your hard work.

Give your friend a manual or a few links to "How-To" websites and simply tell him/her that you have other priorities ahead of theirs.

Include a link to this topic, too.

Good luck - you're a good person.

chrisJumbo · #17 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 04:52 PM

Contract, Contract and
Communication, Communication.

I do contract work for a close associate. We have kept it that way on purpose. He knows what I charge and he pays me everytime.

Usually, if I do work for friends it is pro-bono and small jobs that don't take too much time.

Just have an honest conversation with them. If they don't like it, go on your way.

They will probably come around at some point.

jScott_Harris · #18 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 05:02 PM

I once had a client who owned a Motel 8 that wanted to rank #1 for jacuzzi and used cars(his cousin owned a used car lot!). He wouldn't let us do anymore work till we guaranteed it....nut job

doesn't any read Shark Tank? http://www.computerworld.com/action/...&date=20061214

SemAdvance · #19 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 05:07 PM

I had client horrors. I started getting more involved in finding their real goals and then setting their expectations.

I've lost more clients this way.. but the ones I do keep pay better and on time.

I've also learned to walk away when the budget is too low as opposed to trying to squeek through...again better to lose the possible client than lower prices just to land an account.

corporateface · #20 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 05:08 PM

I think that a good rule of thumb when "helping" people is ...

a) at least have some kind of written document that states what is needed (even adding a signature to your meeting notes will do)

b) you have to set up boundaries in your relationships. I present myself as a professional website and marketing company, so when friends and family want work, I approach them professionaly when it comes to my work. I am much more willing to "help" friends and family who are willing to recognize that this is how I am feeding my 6 kids than someone who wants a freebie and is willing to take advantage of my time.

c) don't be afraid to get real with clients. if they cross a line then you need to let them know. Part of project management is managing your clients and their expectations.