DMOZ editor wants $300 to list my site

[strum4life]

A DMOZ editor is soliciting me for money. Check out the email I received from Daniel Kotarski, editor for the http://dmoz.org/Sports/Fantasy/Footb...ssioner_Tools/ category. His DMOZ username is dankotarski. If you feel he should be reported for abuse after reading this topic, please do it here:

http://report-abuse.dmoz.org/

I am the editor of the DMOZ category to which your site was submitted. Despite what everyone says, you DO get your site listed faster (and everyone knows how important it is to be listed in DMOZ) by throwing an editor a few bucks (no-one on DMOZ will ever admint to that though). The key is, you need to find the right editor.....

Thanks,
Dan

MyFantasyZone.com

I responded with, "How much does the dmoz listing cost?" and got this response:

REMEMBER: THIS IS A ONE-TIME OFFER!!!

Although it is not something the ODP (dmoz) does on an open basis, it's
editors do. You won't read about it anywhere and you can talk to dmoz's
"meta" editors about it - they will only tell you that they "dont condone
such activity and that the culprit will be stripped of his dmoz editorship
rights." (Of course, that's not what really happens). There are no prices
set in stone, it's just whatever you feel it's worth. The more you offer,
the sooner it gets listed. I listed a chart below to give you a general idea
about how much will get you what.

I know how this sounds. But believe me, it's worth it - especially if you
plan to make money from your site. I know because i did the same thing. The
bottom line is, Dmoz editor's are so busy keeping sites updated (and listing
new ones) that they don't have time to review very many sites. It takes alot
of time to review a site and theres alot of editor BS that needs to be done
afterwards. Typically, it takes about an hour to review a site and even
longer to finish the whole process. After it has been approved, no matter
when that is, it takes a few days to be able to search your site on dmoz's
main page and anywhere from 1 day to 60 days to finally get listed in the
Google directory (which is really DMOZ's data).

If you plan on having a popular website, especially if you plan on making
money from it through membership fees or paid advertisements, you absolutely
MUST be listed in dmoz. Being in DMOZ will take your pagerank from 0/10 to
3/10 overnight. Unless you're listed in the ODP, you're site will not be
found very easily, even if you parttake in the Pay-Per-Click campaign such
as google, yahoo or msn. In short, if you're not listed in DMOZ, you're
nobody. That's not just me talking, thats a fact.

Everyone who has suggested a site to dmoz knows that you may wait a VERY
long time to get listed. My site took 2 years to get listed - and that's
typical. I have read posts in google groups where people waited as long as 3
years! Its true, go here to read them:

http://groups.google.com/groups/sear...22&qt_s=Search

The work-around is getting in touch with a dmoz editor (me) and suggesting
that they review your site...and making it worth while. Typically, in the
past, people have paid:

To get reviewed:
Within a year: $50.00
Within 6 Months: $75.00
Within 3 Months: $90.00
Within 1 Month: $125.00
Within 2 Weeks: $180.00
Within 1 Week: $225.00
Within 3 Days: $275.00
Within 24 hours: $300.00
ASAP: $350.00


Personally, i believe this to be an incredible deal since Yahoo directory
charges 300.00/yr for a listing and it takes 7 days for them to review your
site.......even then there is no guarantee that you'll get listed and they
STILL keep you $300.00. DMOZ is much more important to be listed in than
yahoo.


If you are interested, you can pay by check or credit card via PayPal. If
you decide you want to get reviewed ASAP, I will start reviewing as soon as
i see the payment go through.

Again, THIS IS A ONE-TIME OFFER so let me know what you want to do (in other
words, dont wait too long).

Thanks,
Dan

[Webnauts]

Dan I have reported that! :)

[Webnauts]

Attention!

As I mentioned above, I reported him to DMOZ and I just got a mail from them:

We received your abuse report at the Open Directory Project, http://dmoz.org.

As you'll see if you look at the category page http://dmoz.org/Sports/Fantasy/Footb...ssioner_Tools/ dankotarski is no longer an editor. (It would show his name on the page bottom if he were still an editor.)

We appreciate your report and please do feel free to use the reporting system if you ever come across similar issues...which I hope won't happen! We take editor abuse very seriously and appreciate it when the general public helps uncover any 'bad guys'.

[khurramali]

What if we start reporting these cases when they appear, this will hoepfully lead to the editors cleaning up their act, or just not being so open about it.

[Webnauts]

I suspect that more editors do that, as many fake SEO companies promote DMOZ submissions.

I hope others will report such cases to DMOZ, and if they do not want, they can add them here and I will take care of that. :)

[cz]

I've got my $350 and heading over to "probe" DMOZ editors - I'm willing to ante up for sure! As mentioned - it beats the heck out of a $300 Y! review promise.

[khurramali]

Originally Posted by cz

I've got my $350 and heading over to "probe" DMOZ editors - I'm willing to ante up for sure! As mentioned - it beats the heck out of a $300 Y! review promise.

We should resist the urge to exploit the dark side of People, I know it is tempting, but such practices should be avoided as much as possible.

I do not apprive of paying Dmoz editors under the table.

[jimnoble]

What if we start reporting these cases when they appear

Please do; how else would we know about them :)?

[khurramali]

Welcome Jim,

On behalf of everyone here at the Web Pro World, I welcome you to our Forum.

I am sure that you will meet like minded people here.

[scot184]

How do we know that e-mail is legitimate? If one of you guys reported this editor, how was it verified by ODP? What if someone came on here and said this about another editor, even though it couldn't be verified?

Based on what I'm seeing in this post, anyone could say hey, "x" editor sent this email and should be banned. Where is the proof?

I definitely do not agree with charging for inclusion, but I am concerned that it doesn't seem to be verified.

[khurramali]

OPD might have their own checks and balances, I do not know. maybe Jim can shed some light over the issue.

I would like to know his experience in ODP and what they are doing to combat this bad publicity.

[aaron2005]

I would shell out 300 to get in. :)

[jimnoble]

Originally Posted by khurramali

OPD might have their own checks and balances

Well of course it does but, beyond pointing to the editor abuse section of our publicly available Meta Editor Guidelines, I'm not going to discuss them for obvious reasons.

Originally Posted by khurramali

what they are doing to combat this bad publicity.

I'd have thought that promptly, and in this case fairly publicly, removing an abusive editor was good publicity :).

Oh, and my experience within ODP has been and still is excellent. It's a very satisfying hobby and it's great to work within such a supportive team.

[incrediblehelp]

This guys was fired/removed.

[scanmonkey]

Originally Posted by strum4life

The work-around is getting in touch with a dmoz editor (me) and suggesting
that they review your site...and making it worth while. Typically, in the
past, people have paid:

To get reviewed:
Within a year: $50.00
Within 6 Months: $75.00
Within 3 Months: $90.00
Within 1 Month: $125.00
Within 2 Weeks: $180.00
Within 1 Week: $225.00
Within 3 Days: $275.00
Within 24 hours: $300.00
ASAP: $350.00

The prices are much too cheap. Yahoo charges $300 per year.

I would suspect that this is just a nigerian scam.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by cz

I've got my $350 and heading over to "probe" DMOZ editors - I'm willing to ante up for sure! As mentioned - it beats the heck out of a $300 Y! review promise.

Lol

It's worth the backlinks to get in. $350.00 is not bad.

I wonder if we can get a list of editors that are willing to work with us. (-:

[rugs]

I wonder if we can get a list of editors that are willing to work with us.

Please do, and send us the list via http://report-abuse.dmoz.org/ ?

Perhaps you may also want to read http://dmoz.org/guidelines/conflict.html , especially

"Additionally, we discourage submitters from soliciting or bribing editors in exchange for listings in the directory."

[janeth]

Originally Posted by rugs

Please do, and send us the list via http://report-abuse.dmoz.org/ ?

Perhaps you may also want to read http://dmoz.org/guidelines/conflict.html , especially

It’s says that any editor caught taking brides will be removed. I could care less about some guy willing to take a position with his only thought being how can I cheat and make some money.

But it says nothing about the sites that are doing the bribing; as a matter of fact it appears they get in ahead of all the other sites.

It seems if you were really trying to stop the problem you would review the sites that had been added by the editor and sites that had been submitted one day and added the next would be moved to the back of the line where they belong.

Otherwise it appears to me that you’re not really trying to stop the problem.

If I bribe someone one and they accept and enter my site then I get in, if they get caught it’s no big deal I’m still in.

If they say no, it’s no big deal, I just keep looking until I find the right person.

[dogluver]

Look who's inquiring about his revoked editor account.

Originally Posted by janeth

But it says nothing about the sites that are doing the bribing; as a matter of fact it appears they get in ahead of all the other sites.

It seems if you were really trying to stop the problem you would review the sites that had been added by the editor and sites that had been submitted one day and added the next would be moved to the back of the line where they belong.

Otherwise it appears to me that you’re not really trying to stop the problem.

How do you know that's not already happening? You'd have to be an editor to see what's happening behind the scenes with Dmoz.

Originally Posted by janeth

If I bribe someone one and they accept and enter my site then I get in, if they get caught it’s no big deal I’m still in.

If they say no, it’s no big deal, I just keep looking until I find the right person.

Are you really going to bribe some editors, or are you joking?

I agree with khurramali in that we shouldn't exploit the manevolent side of people, because eventually it'll come back to bite us on the buttocks.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by dogluver

Look who's inquiring about his revoked editor account.

Everyone one on the Internet knows whats going on except for this guy. Too funny.

Originally Posted by janeth

But it says nothing about the sites that are doing the bribing; as a matter of fact it appears they get in ahead of all the other sites.

It seems if you were really trying to stop the problem you would review the sites that had been added by the editor and sites that had been submitted one day and added the next would be moved to the back of the line where they belong.

Otherwise it appears to me that you’re not really trying to stop the problem.

Originally Posted by dogluver

How do you know that's not already happening? You'd have to be an editor to see what's happening behind the scenes with Dmoz.

The only thing I've herd for sure that you guys are doing is taking bribes, I haven't herd anything about the other. (-:

Originally Posted by janeth

If I bribe someone one and they accept and enter my site then I get in, if they get caught it’s no big deal I’m still in.

If they say no, it’s no big deal, I just keep looking until I find the right person.

Originally Posted by dogluver

Are you really going to bribe some editors, or are you joking?

Why? Do you want to talk prices? (-:

[dogluver]

Originally Posted by janeth

The only thing I've herd for sure that you guys are doing is taking bribes, I haven't herd anything about the other. (-:

I'm sure you've also heard the saying that you can't believe everything you read?

Originally Posted by janeth

Why? Do you want to talk prices? (-:

Lol. No, I only list sites freely. Unlike, DanK, I'd like to keep my editing position. :D

[janeth]

Originally Posted by dogluver

One thing that makes this more believable is the fact that the thread is here and he has been removed as an editor.

No one has denied the fact that he was taking bribes, so we do know that DMOZ editors will take bribes but just not to what extent. (-;

Lol. No, I only list sites freely. Unlike, DanK, I'd like to keep my editing position. :D

I think a lot of people would like to see search engines start ignoring DMOZ. When things like this happen people are fast to post about them in hopes of bringing an end to DMOZ.

[incrediblehelp]

DMOZ can and will be useful to some, but stories like these are not new. The days of algorithmic boosts from DMOZ (if there ever were any) have been pretty much put to the waist side now.

[rugs]

janeth wrote:

If I bribe someone one and they accept and enter my site then I get in, if they get caught it’s no big deal I’m still in.

Not necessarily! Ever hear of aiding and abetting? They are usually charged with the same crime and suffer the same consequences.

[SPC2]

Originally Posted by Janeth

If they say no, it’s no big deal, I just keep looking until I find the right person.

You'd be very unlikely to find anyone. For one thing, a comparitively few people are able to edit in the category you want, and another thing is that word would get around within DMOZ that you were looking to pay, so nobody would touch the submission with a bargepole - probably not even for a regular free review/acceptance. The desire to bribe is sure to be commented about in the submission itself - every sumitted site can have comments attached to it.

But I wouldn't criticise anyone for trying. After all, it's business, and if some people have an inflated view of the value of a DMOZ listing, there's no reason why they shouldn't try to pay their way in if they can.

[jimnoble]

Originally Posted by janeth

If they say no, it’s no big deal, I just keep looking until I find the right person.

There's a major flaw in your logic.

You've forgotten that honest editors report such attempts to the metas who have a zero tolerance towards corruption.

If you truly believe all the BS that all editors and metas are corrupt, go ahead - make our day :).

[janeth]

Originally Posted by jimnoble

There's a major flaw in your logic.

You've forgotten that honest editors report such attempts to the metas who have a zero tolerance towards corruption.

If you truly believe all the BS that all editors and metas are corrupt, go ahead - make our day :).

The truth of the matter is I really don't believe the listing would be worth more then about $35.00.

The rest was just playing around a little. (-:

[SPC2]

Originally Posted by jimnoble

If you truly believe all the BS that all editors and metas are corrupt, go ahead - make our day :).

How about if I try to bribe editors into listing a competitor's site, by pretending to be the owner. That should make sure it never gets in ;)

[ctabuk]

How would you disguise your log in SPC2? I know you are clever, but THAT clever?

[SPC2]

There's no login when submitting a site. There's an IP address that can be picked up, but that's easy to deal with.

[ctabuk]

Cool reply, I thought you would (putting devious hat on) have to create a new e-mail address, user name as near identicle and go from there. There are some people over at Warriors with 12 log ins!

[SPC2]

The email address might be a problem, since it can't be of the competitor's site, so how about simply emailing a number of low level editors to offer a bribe if they will list the site, or move it to a higher category. Maybe a generic email address will do for that. Even then, it might not be believed due to the email address. Perhaps it wouldn't be so easy to screw a competitor's site by offering bribes. The probability is that it would catch some bent editors rather than screw the site. It would be an interesting experiment, though :)

[The Old Sarge]

Originally Posted by janeth

I think a lot of people would like to see search engines start ignoring DMOZ. When things like this happen people are fast to post about them in hopes of bringing an end to DMOZ.

And when they start ignoring dmoz, to what should they turn their attention?

I would have thought that the speed with which things like this are made public indicates a dedication/determination to rid dmoz of corrupt editors. But I suppose that just reflects the difference in how you and I think.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by The Old Sarge

And when they start ignoring dmoz, to what should they turn their attention?

I would have thought that the speed with which things like this are made public indicates a dedication/determination to rid dmoz of corrupt editors. But I suppose that just reflects the difference in how you and I think.

I'm not sure that DMOZ serves a purpose know and world not need to be replaced with anything.

DMOZ is famous for having rude, corrupted editors and it taking years to get a site listed. As fast as the internet moves and as slow as DMOZ moves I’d say removing it from the Internet would be the best move DMOZ could make.

DMOZ’s time has come and gone. Here is an article on DMOZ that can explain it a lot better. (-;

Just my two cents.

[SPC2]

Originally Posted by The Old Sarge

And when they start ignoring dmoz, to what should they turn their attention?

They don't need to turn their attention to any alternative. They have quite large indexes, y'know ;)

I don't agree that it would be better for DMOZ to be removed from the Web. It is useful for some people - particularly for research, I understand. And it's probably the best directory out there, for people who like to use directories. So, as long as people want to work at it, it has a place, although for most of us it's a rather large white elephant these days - but, then, it's nothing to do with us, so what does it matter.

[The Old Sarge]

Originally Posted by SPC2

(snip)And it's probably the best directory out there, for people who like to use directories. (snip)

And don't you imagine that Google, and other search engines, find comprehensive directories a fine place to "look" for web pages?

[The Old Sarge]

Originally Posted by article posted by janeth

" ... Google came along with very relevant search results, ..."

Oh, yeah?! lol Says you. Google is as bad as any of them at irrelevency, and getting worse all the time.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by The Old Sarge

Oh, yeah?! lol Says you. Google is as bad as any of them at irrelevency, and getting worse all the time.

I guess thats why DMOZ gets so much more traffic then Google?

Lol

[dogluver]

Originally Posted by janeth

I'm not sure that DMOZ serves a purpose know and world not need to be replaced with anything.

There are a lot of people, myself included, who would rather search a directory than a search engine that can easily be spammed and manipulated with crappy results. Dmoz plays a very big part in my search habits, and I dare anyone try to take that away just because they can't have their way with it.

Originally Posted by janeth

DMOZ is famous for having rude, corrupted editors and it taking years to get a site listed.

And all this time I thought Dmoz was famous for being the Internet's largest human-edited directory where webmasters mistakenly think listed sites has some kind of extra pull with Google's search algorithm.

Originally Posted by janeth

As fast as the internet moves and as slow as DMOZ moves I’d say removing it from the Internet would be the best move DMOZ could make.

How selfish of someone to say that. Just because you can't benefit from it, you want others to not benefit from it? I'd rather Dmoz move at a snails pace if that means most of the sites I browse in a category are on topic for what I'm looking for. 5 mintues of browsing Dmoz searching for certain sites versus 1 1/2 hours using search engines just to find 2 Different sites of a common theme makes me believe Dmoz is doing what it set out to do - give the directory browser quality results without the spam that you'll see in search engines.

Before anyone says something about how I'm an editor so of course I'll browse the directory. Wrong. I was browsing the Dmoz directory for over 1 year before I decided to become an editor, and I only decided to become an editor because I browsed the directory so much and thought it would be fun to help add sites to it.

[dogluver]

Originally Posted by SPC2

but, then, it's nothing to do with us, so what does it matter.

I couldn't agree more with that sentiment. If you have no use for Dmoz, then I'm sure there are other directories, search engines, and websites that will provide you with what you're looking for.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by dogluver

There are a lot of people, myself included, who would rather search a directory than a search engine that can easily be spammed and manipulated with crappy results. Dmoz plays a very big part in my search habits, and I dare anyone try to take that away just because they can't have their way with it.

People are having their way with it, I think the cost is $350.00.

Originally Posted by dogluver

And all this time I thought Dmoz was famous for being the Internet's largest human-edited directory where webmasters mistakenly think listed sites has some kind of extra pull with Google's search algorithm.

We agree on the mistakely think it will help you out in Google. I've read more threads about the other then about it being the largest human-edited directory.

Originally Posted by dogluver

How selfish of someone to say that. Just because you can't benefit from it, you want others to not benefit from it? I'd rather Dmoz move at a snails pace if that means most of the sites I browse in a category are on topic for what I'm looking for. 5 mintues of browsing Dmoz searching for certain sites versus 1 1/2 hours using search engines just to find 2 Different sites of a common theme makes me believe Dmoz is doing what it set out to do - give the directory browser quality results without the spam that you'll see in search engines.

I was listed in DMOZ for about two years, I think I had about 4 hits the whole two years.

Originally Posted by dogluver

Before anyone says something about how I'm an editor so of course I'll browse the directory. Wrong. I was browsing the Dmoz directory for over 1 year before I decided to become an editor, and I only decided to become an editor because I browsed the directory so much and thought it would be fun to help add sites to it.

I guess your the 4 hits I got. lol

[dogluver]

Originally Posted by The Old Sarge

Google is as bad as any of them at irrelevency, and getting worse all the time.

I agree. I can say from personal experience that Google and Yahoo! have given me mostly irrelevant results, websites that have nothing to do with the keywords I'm searching for, the same site that occupies 19 of the top 20 spots, the same website but under a different web address, and the list goes on. It's just too easy for a site to manipulate SEs algorithms, but it's harder to manipulate the human eye.

[SPC2]

Originally Posted by The Old Sarge

Oh, yeah?! lol Says you. Google is as bad as any of them at irrelevency, and getting worse all the time.

Nope - not just me. That's what the DMOZ founder says too ;)

But I guess you are probably quite new to the Web, and you don't know what the engines were like before Google. Ask anyone who was around back then :)

[janeth]

I’ve really got no problem with DMOZ but just felt like giving you guys a hard time. (-;

But I would never use it over Google, Yahoo or MSN.

The back log alone lets you know the results can't be that good.

[dogluver]

Originally Posted by janeth

People are having their way with it, I think the cost is $350.00.

Well, keep thinking that all you want. Just let me know how it goes with finding a corrupt editor. If it's as easy as you think, then I'm sure you'll find one right away. Just be sure to send us their editor name so we can lock them out of their account. And, I just hope you don't get your site banned in the process.

Originally Posted by janeth

We agree on the mistakely think it will help you out in Google. I've read more threads about the other then about it being the largest human-edited directory.

Selective reading can do that to people sometimes. :D You know, like how they're willing to pay at most $35 to get their site listed, so they'll only pay attention to the posts that talks about corrupt editors and focus on that aspect, no matter how illogical those posts are.

Originally Posted by janeth

I was listed in DMOZ for about two years, I think I had about 4 hits the whole two years.

My site has been listed for a few years, and I get about 1 hit per week, sometimes more or less, but it averages out to about 1 a week. I'm banking on those one hits per week to refer my site word of mouth. Kind of like how people have linked it on a forum and told people to check it out. There's nothing more humbling than having someone else refer people to my site.

Originally Posted by janeth

I guess your the 4 hits I got. lol

Nah, I'm not interested in web design sites.

[SPC2]

DMOZ is a fine directory. It's scope is limited (very few listings compared to the indexes of the major search engines), and, like all directories, it's slow to use. But it's a very good directory for those who like to use directories.

Personally, I almost always find what I'm looking for on the first page of Google's results, even though there are listings there that I'm not looking for. No directory can hope to match the speed, quality with volume, and the finesse of search of a major search engine. Search engines can return results with great finesse (finely tuned search terms), whereas directories only deal with overall categories. There's no comparison.

[dogluver]

Originally Posted by janeth

I’ve really got no problem with DMOZ but just felt like giving you guys a hard time. (-;

Yes, and so are we. :-)

Originally Posted by janeth

The back log alone lets you know the results can't be that good.

What backlog? I'm not required to review *suggested* sites, and no one is guaranteed a listing just because they suggest their site. Truth be told, I've been finding sites else where and haven't looked at suggested sites in a while. Sometimes doing that is just easier, but then again, I'm not confined to a few small categories. ;-)

But, please expand on your logic about how the "backlog" means the results can't be that good. I'd be interested in reading it. :D

[SPC2]

There's a huge backlog - last I heard it was way over a million. I know that some editors have redefined the concept so that submitted sites are not there to be reviewed. Instead they are just a pool of sites that can be dipped into as an editor wishes. But that's only some editors. The DMOZ site talks about the backlog of submitted sites, and that's good enough for me ;)

Btw, don't get on the *suggested* thing. The DMOZ site talks about "submitting sites", so they are both valid words to use.

[dogluver]

Originally Posted by SPC2

DMOZ is a fine directory. It's scope is limited (very few listings compared to the indexes of the major search engines), and, like all directories, it's slow to use. But it's a very good directory for those who like to use directories.

Personally, I almost always find what I'm looking for on the first page of Google's results, even though there are listings there that I'm not looking for. No directory can hope to match the speed, quality with volume, and the finesse of search of a major search engine. Search engines can return results with great finesse (finely tuned search terms), whereas directories only deal with overall categories. There's no comparison.

Of course you'll get quicker and more results with a search engine. I've used them before. In fact, when I have a memory lapse, as in I forget to use a directory first, I'll use a search engine to find what I'm looking for. But, instead of finding what I'm looking for I usually find sites with low content that don't cover in enough detail what I'm looking for, spam sites, sites that have nothing to do with the keywords I searched for, but optimized for them anyway, that equals me having to searche pages upon pages in a search engine until I find something worthwhile. I don't speak about this on speculation, I speak about this from personal experience. After wasting an hour of my time doing a dual search of Yahoo and Google for the same topic only to find 1 usable site between the two, I finally got a clue and decided to go to Dmoz and type in a few keywords, go straight to that category and found about 30 sites, all on topic, that I spent minutes each looking over because they all covered the content in-depth, so I found what I was looking for. I even registered with a few of them and revisit them from time-to-time. What's more important to me is not the quantity of results I get, but the quality of results I get; my time is very precious to me. Dmoz may not have every site known to man on that topic listed, but if they have enough quality choice for me to choose from, then I'm a happy camper. Plus, I don't have the time to browse every site known to man under the topic.

[The Old Sarge]

Originally Posted by SPC2

Nope - not just me. That's what the DMOZ founder says too ;)

But I guess you are probably quite new to the Web, and you don't know what the engines were like before Google. Ask anyone who was around back then :)

New to the internet?! lol Hardly. I didn't pick this user name by accident. :0)