Javascript Navigation & SEO

[mktgbill]

I'm working on an update to a website and would like to incorporate a nice, easy to use javascript navigation tool but don't want to compromise our good serps or risk banning by doing something that will appear sneaky.

I understand that spiders don't go through the javascript and am wondering if placing basic text links under the area where the navigation bar will appear will hurt anything. What I'm considering is using a text link to a #nav anchor at the bottom of the page where basic text navigation appears or a link to a site map or text links for the top level items in the javascript menu. This would only be visible to those without javascript enabled, search engine spiders or those viewing the source code. Is this likely to be considered a questionable act?

I'm sure many of you looking at this posting will recommend using CSS (which I'm working on) but I'm needing to implement this sooner rather than later.

Thanks in advance for your input.

mktgbill

[greeneagle]

This will launch you faster (CSS) than going with javascript, be much cleaner and guide the SEs properly:

http://www.webmaster-toolkit.com/css...enerator.shtml

Ken

[jmaresca2005]

dhtml is alos a good way to go for text links.
http://www.marescawebdevelopment.com

[kjohnson5576]

If you want to go with java, I used CoffeeCup software's java menu maker. It has a spot for placing links below the javascript. View my website Source to see how it looks.

[Tim]

I agree with greeneagle, avoid JavaScript (and Java).

http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menus/index.html

[goofus]

You shouldn't have any problem with search engines, as long as regular old-fashioned href="url" tags exist in addition to your JavaScript nav. Having them at the bottom of the page like you suggested should be fine.

I know the javascript hrefs don't slow down the spiders, since quite often I find my error_logs full of hundreds of lines containing the like of:
"... GET javascript:function_call(); ..."

I only wish spiders were made smart enough to skip over those links ...

[janeth]

I agree with Ken and it's not hard to get it to work.

If you need some help implementing it let me know and I can give you a hand at no charge.

[greeneagle]

Here is a sample where I used that CSS method for a Laser Machining Company

I also use it on my own site.

You will find changes much easier to manage.

I like right hand Nav when possible. The visitor doesn't have to effort to select and the Nav/link code gets placed well down under automatically, allowing SEs to parse content first.

Ken

[mktgbill]

Ken, thanks for the link to webmaster-toolkit.com. In addition you made an interesting point.... Is it more important for the search engines to see your content before the navigational structure to a site? I've never given this much thought but now you've got me wondering which is better to emphasize - though we already rank quite well for our most important search terms.

Janeth, thanks for your offer - though I don't necessarily want to take advantage of your kindness. I'm going to play around with some of the sample CSS via webmaster-toolkit and see how that works. Otherwise you may hear from me.

Here's a test page I'm working on www.italintl.com/new-new/index.html. Since I'm new to CSS I'd be interested to hear your recommendations.

Thanks for the input.
mktgbill

[kgun]

Do not use JavaScript unless there are no other solution.

[sgray128]

A simpler method would be to use a site map. Look at www.4Penny.net for an example. There is a plain html link to a site map at the bottom of all pages. On the site map page I use the www.componentArt.com site map control, which builds the links from an XML file. I highly recommend everything from component art. I use their menu in most sites that I build. The site map control builds plain html links, the search engines can easily follow them. HTH...

[greeneagle]

Depending on the Site size, a sitemap is a good recommendation.

Personally I would include an XHTML sitemap for good measure for sites over 20 pages and a Google Sitemap for sites with about 50 pages or more.

IMO - I haven't seen any real value for webmasters to worry themselves too much with Google XML Sitemaps until they reach a minimum of 50-100 pages.

But that's just my opinion.

Qualifier:
Those Sites should have clear cut textural paths laid out as "flat" as possible. If you are in the javascript camp for Nav with gnarly garbage like "swap images", I'd have a sitemap starting at 2 pages!

Ken

[rms7design]

well, I use javascript (tigra menu builder) for most of my website. The reason is the ease of use and update. I also always have at the bottom of each page a text navig sys. Using CSS for menu is nice, but when it comes to manage over a 100 pages and almost as many links... a little bit difficult. But open to any suggestions..

regards

[greeneagle]

rms7design,

I have an old technology design for a faithful client with swap images and the likes that I'm really not too proud of anymore:
www.vortexventures.com

However, they continue to do so well in SERP with the site that I have hesitated in upgrading as I have here recently:
www.huntanthunt.com

Managing the javascript and associated swap images has been a nightmare over time.

I could blow through CSS menu's like in the first link for a large site within minutes when adding or removing Nav, without a CMS (content management system) in place.

That's value for everyone involved.

You don't need or want 2 Nav systems to manage!

They are next in line here for a serious face lift!

Ken

[drummin]

You mentioned having many pages and updating could a problem. I almost alway make my sites using an older version of the php program found here.
http://www.matthewkendall.com/web/templates
Or
http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/ke...22.php3?page=5
The advantage of this is you make one temple called your "common" file and all content pages load into this ONE page.
So, no matter what menu you end up using (Use CSS)... this plus you complete layout can be changed by modifing one file.
Just a thought.
I like it and use it all the time.
Drummin

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by kgun

Do not use JavaScript unless there are no other solution.

Amen! But if you have to, use the <noscript> tags and add the title attribute were it makes sence.