Am I giving away too much?

[dharrison]

Hi

I have had a couple of occasions where I have had to quote for SEO work on a prospective customer's existing site. When they receive the proposal, they seem to wait a few days and then say they aren't interested.

I hope I m being paranoid, but could they be taking my ideas and then doing them theirselves? Has anyone else had this experience? How did you deal with the problem?

I am looking for solutions and the couple I can think of is having some clause in the proposal covering discretion or making recommendation reports for people's SEO sites for a fixed fee. Does anyone else in this community run a similar service and if so, is it proving to be a success?

Any help will be gratefully received.

Many thanks,

[Paul B]

You know what you wrote in your quotation, we don't. Perhaps if we knew what you were giving away, then we could say if it is too much.

You of course can check their sites to see if there are changes you suggested.

[SEOforGoogle]

When doing a proposal, I never give away precise techniques, instead, talk about the strategy and how it will impact their rankings.

I then point to other client sites that employed the proposed strategy, and how it impacteded their results.

This way you can "prove" that you know what you're doing without giving away any real information.

Hope this helps and good luck!

[writergrrrl48]

Yes, from time to time I get someone who wants to ask LOTS of very specific questions about how I do what I do. Clearly these are fishing expeditions where they want to get ideas they think they can implement themselves.

When someone starts being too specific before they pay the invoice, I start being LESS informative and start pushing them to make their decision. If they say "I'll call you in a couple of weeks", then I drop them. I don't have time to waste on people who want everything for nothing.

I lose one from time to time, but they would not have been a good client anyway.

[jannmirch]

This is a great question not just for SEO, but for many aspects of business.

I do graphic design as well as web design and frequently run into "potential clients" who want me to give them a sample of what I would do for them. The risk in doing so is exactly what you say, they then take YOUR idea and either do it themselves or give it to someone else who will do it for less.

Check out how to write a solid business proposal at http://sbinformation.about.com/cs/bi...a/proposal.htm. I found it to be very helpful in drafting something for potential clients that is useful to the client - they can see what they will be getting and why they should want it - without giving away the store.

Best of luck!

[janeth]

Originally Posted by jannmirch

I do graphic design as well as web design and frequently run into "potential clients" who want me to give them a sample of what I would do for them. The risk in doing so is exactly what you say, they then take YOUR idea and either do it themselves or give it to someone else who will do it for less.

That's the reason we had to stop doing sample designs.

Originally Posted by jannmirch

Check out how to write a solid business proposal at http://sbinformation.about.com/cs/bi...a/proposal.htm. I found it to be very helpful in drafting something for potential clients that is useful to the client - they can see what they will be getting and why they should want it - without giving away the store.

Best of luck!

Putting everything in writting is a lesson you will learn sooner or later if your in the SEO business or the design business.

SEO is really easy to do, the benfit for the client is in the fact they can spend time with their business and not with marketing it.

I doubt there is any information you can give them that they could not find online.

I would look into rather or not your giving them enough information.

[Jabber_uk]

1. There are (as writergrrrl48 has said) some prospects who you are better off without because they want everything for free.

2. For larger projects I get our customers to pay for a specification document - this document does go into some detail about what they will get for their money. The cost of the document covers my time in writing it. If they take it eslewhere, well I have lost a customer but at least I don't lose out totally.

[jannmirch]

Originally Posted by Jabber_uk

I get our customers to pay for a specification document

I'm curious how you broach the subject with your customers. If you are providing a spec document are they even customers at that point?

[GiftsForYouBiz]

I guess there are aspects of SEO that are, 1, 2, 3 based, but my idea of SEO is an over-time concept, like establishing link exchange policies and following through on them. That to me is where the real "work" is that's being paid for. Does everyone have time to devote to their own level of SEO? Even if they believe so, there are so many tweaks and nuances that can't be put into a proposal.

Of course there are dime-a-dozen web developers out there, but I believe company's are starting to see that you get what you pay for. You can do it yourself, or pay someone that has at least a few years of experience in both research and trial and error.

I don't believe in "secrets" per se, because when you add them all up, you've become an expert. But you can only be an expert at so many things. I can learn how to fix my own engine by reading up on it, or even getting a quote, but I'm not going to become a mechanic.

So although its good to be conscious of what you're quoting, and people like to know what they're getting for their money, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Send out 20 proposals, and if you get one of them as a job, you're doing good.

My guess is people are weighing the cost for what they percieve to be the ROI. And that is 'very' difficult to see from their end. That's where you really should concentrate your efforts; what they'll reap, not as much as what you'll be doing to get them there (although that does need to be covered too).

[dharrison]

janmirch I'm not that specific.

[rgcote]

Part of submitting good proposals is educating the (potential) customer as to why you are a good choice. It is not enough to prove to them that you know what you are doing and how to solve their problems. You have to also prove to them that it will be worth the money you are asking for. If you convince them of your "value", then they won't be tempted to do it themselves.

As an example, you may suggest to a particular customer that they would benefit from pay-per-click campaigns at Overture and Google. But your fear is that the customer will decide that they can do that themselves. What you need to also tell them is that lots of companies lose lots of money on pay-per-click campaigns because they don't always know the pitfalls to avoid. You may even give them an example of how you saved one of your customers money in their PPC campaigns because of your experience.

This specific example may not apply to you, but the point is that you should make it clear to the customer why they will save money by having you do the work vs. doing it themselves. Convince them that SEO is complicated and that you know how to navigate through the issues. Convince them that they will get a better return on their investment by using you than they will by doing the work themselves.

I would guess that other companies competing for the same work are not making these types of arguments in their proposals so it would give you an edge in that regard.

Anyway, that's my $0.02.

[SemAdvance]

I've been hit with every gamut under the sun to get me pinned in to a corner as to what I do that allows me to have clients ranked on Googles front page.

I did not realize at first what some were attempting but caught on quickly. I have been approached by offshore groups wanting to use my ranking results to give their clients.

Some have taken them but forgot to change the URLs in the code, so its kind of odd when you get a call from Pakistan about how long an employee worked for you....he wasn't one of the smarter ones apparently lol....

I have now several versions of a worded proposals with the basic SEO steps involved albeit with lengthy explanations.

In addition each is customized somewhat to the clients own site issues and less of what I will do to improve those.

And then there is the crossing the T's and dotting the I's to ensure the clients expectations are realistic and ensure long term relationships.

Hope it helps

[DrTandem1]

If someone contacts me for technical information, I am happy to provide what I can. By that, I mean I try to point them in the right direction to get what they need; not that I provide them detailed specifics.

If someone contacts me to work on an existing site, it depends what they want done. If they don't understand what is wrong with their site, I will provide a critique for a nominal fee that can be deducted from the fees I charge, if they hire me.

The critique is detailed in what areas need work and why, but it is not a do-it-yourself manual. For instance, they may not understand why their site is not explored beyond the home page. I may discover that their Home page is 3 meg and no one is waiting for it to load. This may be due to images. If they knew how to properly use images, they wouldn't have contacted me.

In that example, I have not corrected the problem nor told them specifically how to correct it. I have told them what the problem is.

[Orion]

Awesome topic!

I think that a good part of it also boils down to your personal approach to business in general.

I have dealt with and know of many companies, that simply say here's some of my work (provide keyword to search and domain name to find in the top) and that's it. If you want my service it's this much to get more info.

The flip to that (my personal approach) is provide the information, help out as many people as you can, some will go and do it themselves, the vast majority do not have the know how, nor the time to do it and will have to hire some one. The majority of my clients are clients because I'm so open in my approach, and attempt to educate the clients on what's going on. Those that constantly want more info, put them on a maintenance plan $100 a month or something where you'll give them a few hours a month work (linking or content or whatever) and it also pays for your time to be available to answer their questions. Booking weekly or monthly meetings (phone / IM / Skype) can also help, give them time).

On the front end with the quoting, I layout the pieces of optimizing a site (like on our site: http://www.orionsweb.net/optimization.shtml
Then if (I deal with mostly small biz and soho) they don't have a large budget, I break down the pieces for them and show them how we can layout a plan over time that will show them some results fairly quickly and build on those over time.

Give it away, help as many people as you can, it all comes back to you in the long run.

[TrafficProducer]

Dear NOT paranoid!

Just remember there are Tons and tons of competition. Do you have a USP, Unique Selling Point you can offer?

You will have to ask the client why they didn’t choice your service, in a polite way. Ask them for feedback.

There could be any number of non-paranoid reasons.

For example:-

I heard of some businesses moving slowly, they may not buy not but when their budgets are better to carry out actions.

The are unsure of the expected ROI, Return on investment.

They’ve heard all about losses by other businesses and are fearful.

[SemAdvance]

ergo

better to build a business... than traffic, that does nothing.

but thats going off topic

[webreporter]

It is always my belief that anyone talking to an SEO about their work is doing so because they don't know how to do it themselves.

If they truly understand the nature of the work, they won't be alarmed by what you charge for your services. If they don't, they will seek other services that are cheaper, and in the process buy something that sounds too good to be true.

There are a lot of hacks out there that will say anything to anyone to get their money. Those are usually professional sales people who do not actually do the work themselves.

Also too, depending on the type of business the consumer in question is in, they may feel it is better to resort to PPC. They get instant gratification without the huge up front cost. Not to mention they get guarantee with it.

SEO work is often too esoteric for some people, and they just don't understand that it makes sense econically in the long run. They can't get beyond the sticker shock.

I have been doing this work now for over five years, and have come to learn that if my pitch and explanation of services scares off a potential client, the Universe just did me a favor.

[dharrison]

Originally Posted by TrafficProducer

Dear NOT paranoid!

Heh, heh love it. Thanx man, I knew it weren't just me. :)

[pemburung]

Debbie,

paranoia is a deep understanding of the true nature of the universe

[SemAdvance]

Originally Posted by webreporter

It is always my belief that anyone talking to an SEO about their work is doing so because they don't know how to do it themselves.

If they truly understand the nature of the work, they won't be alarmed by what you charge for your services. If they don't, they will seek other services that are cheaper, and in the process buy something that sounds too good to be true.

There are a lot of hacks out there that will say anything to anyone to get their money. Those are usually professional sales people who do not actually do the work themselves.

Also too, depending on the type of business the consumer in question is in, they may feel it is better to resort to PPC. They get instant gratification without the huge up front cost. Not to mention they get guarantee with it.

SEO work is often too esoteric for some people, and they just don't understand that it makes sense econically in the long run. They can't get beyond the sticker shock.

I have been doing this work now for over five years, and have come to learn that if my pitch and explanation of services scares off a potential client, the Universe just did me a favor.

Well 110% dead on....though I have learned that for new clients with new websites to push them into PPC, contextual, or other viral marketing as the SEO is not going to show results for months and I think that and the sticker shock really set them off.

I would also say; those that do opt for the cheaper service...are back within 60 to 600 days ;->

and you know what happens when they come back....