Baring all but Revealing Nothing

[dharrison]

Hi all

I have been contacted by a prospective customer, who badly needs answers as to why their site is underperforming. They asked me via email "to provide them with tips and a possible report with quotation to make sure their site is Search Engine friendly."

I have absolute loads of tips for the site, but I have a niggling doubt in the back of my mind: What if they just want to hear what I suggest and then go off and do it themselves or give it to their web designer? What is stopping them? Should I suggest a meeting first or is that being too pushy?

What would you do in the same situation? Please please help.

Incidentally, they saw my details on this site, so good show and all that. :)

Best regards

[ADAM Web Design]

Well, if you've got that many ideas, tip off maybe 2 or 3 so that you can show knowledge. Hold back on the rest.

I do that all the time.

[DrTandem1]

Yes, I get that all the time. I first tell them I am not an SEO firm. I make no guarantees regarding SERP performance. However, I will look at their site and tell them briefly what I think could help it along.

Many take those tips and run, others ask me to do it for them. I don't charge much more than I would for a content update, as long as I'm not redesigning a page or the site.

Often, it's simple stuff like a missing title tag and alt tags. The problem is, they won't always tell you what they have done off-site. If you dig a little bit, it may become obvious that they have been penalized for some reason.

The gimmick that worked yesterday to get them to the top of the SERPs could cause a deletion from the results tomorrow.

I think the big hitter at the moment are IBLs. How you get them can mean success or failure. I'm not a fan of artificially inflating IBLs. You could skyrocket to the top only to explode. Quick gratification can lead to long term problems.

[HHI_Golf_Guy]

I always get people fishing for information about their web site. How do you let them know that you have knowledge without disclosing too many details? That's very tricky - and it's easy to trip yourself up.

Consider charging them a consulting fee ($50, $100, $200, whatever you think is fair) to discuss any specifics about their site. If they choose your services, then discount your fee by the amount of the initial consultation cost.

In order for this to work you need to explain to them that you need to charge this fee because you are dealing with intellectual property and not a physical, tangible asset.

You can also let them know that the items that you discuss make it easier for them to compare any competing bids, or at the very least gives them questions to ask your competitors.

It's not an ideal solution, but you do have to try and protect the knowledge that you have acquired.

[httpman]

Hello Debbie.

Very common situation !
Based on my own experience, after a few years of such e-mail contacts I would suggest : answer the questions, but do not spend too much time at that point. A good solution is to answer whith headlines only, without too much details. You could talk about keyword density, meta tags, title optimisation etc. and give a note for each (3/10, 6/10 etc.) regarding today's website, and a price in front.
It would be difficult to use your answer as it is, without you, while clearly demonstrating that your know what you are talking about, and the differents ways you would use to improve the ranking.

Then, in order to go further a phone call is a good way to understand the willing of your prospective to work with you. Or a meeting, but compare the cost of a meeting and the price of your quote, and to the chances to get it. Could be expensive !!

Hope it can help.

[noel_x99]

When I get questions like this I generally review the site briefly and give a few "first impressions".

I prefer to talk to them on the phone. You can more easily read the client and you can give the sense of knowing what you are talking about. Chances are good that they wouldn't be able to take effective notes to really "act on" your info or take it elsewhere.

Once you have a sense that you want to work with the client, then a written report might be in order.

I do have a tendency to "give info away", and most of the time it builds trust and I get the client. Sometimes, they take the info and run. I'm getting better at recognizing the client. I think talking to them is key.

[SPC2]

You could provide a brief overview without giving much in the way of detail away, and offer to sell them some consultation time. It's not uncommon for SEOs to provide consultation at a price, and, in my experience, it's not uncommon for people to want to pay for consultation only, even when it's not specifically offered.

[Jabber_uk]

This is how we do it...

Stage One:
~~~~~~~~~~
Offering a 'Summary Document Report' for FREE which would discuss in general terms what you could look at. As other posters have said, maybe offer one or two tips like "I notice you don't have a TITLE tag in the home page". These tips don't tell them how to fix it just that there is something wrong.

Stage Two:
~~~~~~~~~~
I would then offer a professionally written report on what is wrong and what could be done to improve the site. This document is chargeable of course. If they then take it away to someone else, well thats up to them, at least you made your money on the report. The beauty of this report is that if they then come back to you 5 weeks later or something you have already done the preliminary research so you can jump straight into doing the work (no time wasted).

We do this with software development projects all the time. 1st Summary Doc; 2nd Functional doc; 3rd The work itself.

[marcel]

1. Post the tips to your blog.

or

2. Create a paid-member only area on your blog, where you share expert advice. Charge a one time fee
19.95.

Let other members help each other too. Use amember.com for the member site.

[OneMoreBite]

Originally Posted by dharrison

I have been contacted by a prospective customer, who badly needs answers as to why their site is underperforming. They asked me via email "to provide them with tips and a possible report with quotation to make sure their site is Search Engine friendly."

I'd just take this as any inquiry such as, "What can you do for me?" Then proceed to tell them what you would do, i.e. I'd go through the site, page by page looking for key elements known to improve a site's performance and then make those changes, including spelling/grammar and text optimized for the search engines while simultenously written to create results," and so on, or "I perform search engine optimization tactics known to increase performance," etc. You could give the basic bullet point list of what you'd do, but I see no reason for specfics. Many site owners would take that wrong anyway, since they think their sites are wonderful (based on what they were told by whomever created it).

Giving tips and specifics is like giving a free seminar. If you want to do that, contact organizations and do it a couple times a month as a promo, with the idea in mind that you're going to generate new business.

Give tips on your site, but quotes for work are a different animal, IMO. There's just so much that goes into creating a well performing site, it's not the kind of thing you can state in 100 words or less and if you try they may not be able to figure out how that one change can make the big difference.

Kathryn

[DrTandem1]

Originally Posted by Jabber_uk

This is how we do it...

Stage One:
~~~~~~~~~~
Offering a 'Summary Document Report' for FREE which would discuss in general terms what you could look at. As other posters have said, maybe offer one or two tips like "I notice you don't have a TITLE tag in the home page". These tips don't tell them how to fix it just that there is something wrong.

Stage Two:
~~~~~~~~~~
I would then offer a professionally written report on what is wrong and what could be done to improve the site. This document is chargeable of course. If they then take it away to someone else, well thats up to them, at least you made your money on the report. The beauty of this report is that if they then come back to you 5 weeks later or something you have already done the preliminary research so you can jump straight into doing the work (no time wasted).

We do this with software development projects all the time. 1st Summary Doc; 2nd Functional doc; 3rd The work itself.

That's pretty much the same model I follow.

[johnmcm]

I do not understand why anyone would worry about giving away their trade secrets. Truth is there are no trade secrets anymore.

We all know how it's done but do most people have the time to do it?

Any GOOD client will be willing to pay for good optimization as it's a lot of work that they won't ever get around to doing. Oh they say they will but like most processes, it's those who do that win.

Paul Mitchell (the hair products guy) once said: "I'm rich because I'm willing to do the things others are not willing to do". Or something like that. So it is with SEO. I have a great deal of success in some of the toughest SEO arenas, I know one thing for sure. I didn't get there with one magic bullet. I had to fire a lot of round to get one bulls eye. But once it hits, you find it hard to move the gun. Even when the search engines move the target.

[dharrison]

Originally Posted by johnmcm

I do not understand why anyone would worry about giving away their trade secrets. Truth is there are no trade secrets anymore.

We all know how it's done but do most people have the time to do it?

Any GOOD client will be willing to pay for good optimization as it's a lot of work that they won't ever get around to doing. Oh they say they will but like most processes, it's those who do that win.

I am not worried about giving away trade secrets, so don't know where that came from. I was concerned that I would disclose too much in my email, deeming my services redundant.

Also we might all know how its done, but the majority of the world (certainly in my neck of the woods) doesn't. A scenario springs to mind: The Contact wanting to know my tips and suggestions etc, gets the info as requested and as his/her Cousin Nobby (his surname is Head) is good on computers, they pass my advice on to him so they don't have to pay. Where would that leave me?

I am sad to say I have been offered another SEM company's proposal sent to one of my existing customers (in my defence - he has short-term memory due to illness and trusts me to advise him where possible). The only difference being, is that the said proposal was a load of old rubbish and half of their suggestions were very suspect. So this proves in itself that the practice exists, along with some of the horror stories I've read on this forum.

Originally Posted by Jabber_uk

This is how we do it...

Stage One:
~~~~~~~~~~
Offering a 'Summary Document Report' for FREE which would discuss in general terms what you could look at. As other posters have said, maybe offer one or two tips like "I notice you don't have a TITLE tag in the home page". These tips don't tell them how to fix it just that there is something wrong.

Stage Two:
~~~~~~~~~~
I would then offer a professionally written report on what is wrong and what could be done to improve the site. This document is chargeable of course. If they then take it away to someone else, well thats up to them, at least you made your money on the report. The beauty of this report is that if they then come back to you 5 weeks later or something you have already done the preliminary research so you can jump straight into doing the work (no time wasted).

We do this with software development projects all the time. 1st Summary Doc; 2nd Functional doc; 3rd The work itself.

Thanks Jabber, I did write a summary report earlier for my customer as your advice was sound (nice photo BTW) ;).

Originally Posted by marcel

1. Post the tips to your blog.

or

2. Create a paid-member only area on your blog, where you share expert advice. Charge a one time fee
19.95.

Let other members help each other too. Use amember.com for the member site.

Thanks for that Marcel. That idea is wicked and makes good use of a blog I already have. I actually never knew you could do that with a blog.

Actually thanks everyone who participated. It is as always appreciated.

Best regards,

[jonpoh]

I went in to see a client and spent about an hour explaining eactly what I would do. This was after they told me they wanted me to do the work and that budget was of no concern, they just needed it done.

So after I explain it all to them, they say "we'll get back to you" . I called them back the next day, only to be told, "we're going to have one of the High Schoolers working here for the summer give it a try"

Good luck

Jon P

[DrTandem1]

Originally Posted by jonpoh

I went in to see a client and spent about an hour explaining eactly what I would do. This was after they told me they wanted me to do the work and that budget was of no concern, they just needed it done.

So after I explain it all to them, they say "we'll get back to you" . I called them back the next day, only to be told, "we're going to have one of the High Schoolers working here for the summer give it a try"

Good luck

Jon P

Not to worry, Jon, I have had numerous encounters similar to that. Believe me, they get the site they deserve.

[johnmcm]

Also we might all know how its done, but the majority of the world (certainly in my neck of the woods) doesn't.

Sorry D I didn't mean that everyone knows. I was talking about everyone here;

I do think you're right not to tell customers too much.

I for one don't tell them anything. I say "Its like this, I show you the results I've got for others. You employ me and MAYBE I'll get the same results for you for about $8000 per month for a minimum af 12 months".

They usually take it or leave it. Most leave it and fish for hints. So I've give them hints on the basics. Then they come back in about 6 months and say "Ok, not quite as easy as I thought".

What we do is hard work. Don't sell it short!

[free-bet]

I do not sell web design services etc, just run a few self taught hacked up sites of my own.

I will chip in a few thoughts anyhow. :)

The net is full of freebie hunters.
Many think it is a great idea to suck info from qualified people , get their consultancy done for free etc then go off and get the work done on the cheap elsewhere.

Obviously every hour you spend with those sorts costs you money you could be earning elswhere.

I guess you have to try and judge what sort of client they are.
eg a freebie hunter or a genuine bit of business trying to suss out your knowledge or as a test of your credibility.

Pointing them to other sites you have done is of course a cheap and easy way to try and raise your credibility.

eg can you show them a nice looking site and some high ranking key phrases for such a site.
eg tell em to go to google and seach for "chocolate biscuits" etc where your work is number 1 ranked.

If you want to allure to years of knowledge built up that you reserve for paying clients only, a genuine enquirer will understand that concept.

Give them a sniff to raise your credibility and wet their appetite but not the full monty at the start.

That sort of approach should get many genuine clients on your side.

You may want to bring up the subject of budget early on as well.
eg is this a potential significant earner for you or are you dealing with a timewaster who will be of no major benefit to you?

It may pay to have to hand a standard initial seo review document.
ie something that states what you would do if they were to ask you to carry out some form "assessment"

This assessment of course may conlude with ideas and suggestions on work that could be done by you or others should they want to go further.

There are automated things eg such as keyword ranking and link reports that could form the body of this report.

Some manual addition highlighting that you understand their business and their aims would be of benefit here.

Can you do better than their direct competitors..casually point out a quick flaw in their competitors site etc?

Such a thing you could seek to earn from, or you may just provide at about cost in the hope of earning money on the design side.

Possibly even sub contract that bit out to a more specialised partner if you are more focussed on pure design etc?

Next stage may be providing a cost to carry out the work to SEO plus make other improvments to their site.

My own back ground is professional betting. There are many parallels that can be taken into normal life.

eg any freelance or design company is effectively betting their time spent on developing a possible client into a paying one.

Wasted time spent is a risk.
You have to learn to judge and assess risk and reward. The ideal is that you continally choose to make good bets not bad ones.

Similarly remember the client is aslo assessing you.
Price is not always the key factor.

If you can show them you are both knowlegable and trustworty and can provide a quality solution that will aid their business long term, more of those speculative bets will come in.

Just my tuppence worth on a business I have no experience of :)

Hope there is something in the above ramblings that is of use to you.

best wishes
Mick

[DrTandem1]

Regarding time-wasters: If someone chooses not to use your services, the time you spent is not wasted, if you have learned something. If you continue to pursue people who are not patently not interested in your services, then that is a waste of time.

I have met with many potential clients. Since their business is almost always foreign to me, I learn a great deal. I ask all sorts of questions about their business. This provides me with more knowledge about their business that can assist me, if I do take on their project. I get to learn new and interesting things and I have met interesting people that have been of assistance to me in things other than web design. Also, it shows them that you are taking an interest and that has boosted conversions.

[dharrison]

Actually free-bet, that was of great use. ;)

I haven't heard from my (*does inverted commas with two fingers*) customer yet, so don't know.

I hope it is a genuine enquiry and I am just being a silly sausage, fretting about nothing.