SEO Question

jg33 · #1 (**permalink**) 01-14-2004, 10:02 AM

Hello,

I always read this forum but always wonder how do you become an SEO Expert or SEO consultant?

What is required? Is there a school or a site that can teach you the process? Or just being lucky working in a job where they provide that service?

I find this type of work fascinating because it can always change and keep up with search engines...

How to optimize a page? Is there a website where I can read about it?

Thank you

Joseph

greeneagle · #2 (**permalink**) 01-14-2004, 12:01 PM

It seems that there are a handful of universal "Do's and Dont's", beyond that, everything is "trial by error", since Search Engine alogrithms are proprietary.

It has been said; "there are as many ways to optimize as there ar optimizers".

Recently, I have seen SEO's that also have web development sites that were PR promoted with the newest Google update (last 2 days), who continue to have 100's of linkfarm linkbacks to their sites!

Lost completely! --- A whole bunch of MYTHS out there!
Ken

janeth · #3 (**permalink**) 01-14-2004, 01:08 PM

Hi Joseph,

There is no school. As far as SEO Expert or SEO consultant?

You have to read study look at there site and see what you think.

Most of it is common sense and trial and error.

A good web site to learn and get information from is http://www.bruceclay.com he has a lot of information.

I look at pr on a site when someone starts talking about how good they are at SEO stuff.

If there site pr is no good then I lay little weight to what they say unless it lines up with what I have herd in other places.

Google is on our site a couple times a week so I make changes to the site and look to see how Google handles the changes and go from there.

greeneagle · #4 (**permalink**) 01-14-2004, 01:41 PM

janeth said:

"I look at pr on a site when someone starts talking about how good they are at SEO stuff."

She probably could not have said it better!, if they can't promote their own site --- they can't promote someone else's site well -- That's just my opinion, of course!

Many "top" SEO sites I have been to have a PR-0, janeth has a PR6, and there are many more good contributors here, some even offer free SEO advice - Dig into the treasure trove.

Ken

LauraB · #5 (**permalink**) 01-14-2004, 06:35 PM

We have an page PR of 6, however I recently (within the last couple of days) renamed a number of our interior pages which now have a PR of 0 (from 5). So, if you just went to the newly renamed pages it would give you a skewed vision of our site.

I guess what I am saying is just the PR alone does not tell the whole story.

LauraB · #6 (**permalink**) 01-14-2004, 06:39 PM

Sorry about the bad grammar. That should have been an INDEX page with a PR 6

Krapulator · #7 (**permalink**) 01-14-2004, 06:41 PM

hehehe. It's a self declared qualification.

Mel · #8 (**permalink**) 01-14-2004, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jg33

Hello,

I always read this forum but always wonder how do you become an SEO Expert or SEO consultant?

What is required? Is there a school or a site that can teach you the process? Or just being lucky working in a job where they provide that service?

I find this type of work fascinating because it can always change and keep up with search engines...

How to optimize a page? Is there a website where I can read about it?

Thank you

Joseph

Hi Joseph
there are a couple of schools who offer courses and a certificate in SEO, but I hesitate to recommend them as I don't always agree with what they teach.

I have a free 50 SEO guide on my site, which will give you an overview and some examples, although much of the search engine information is out of date.

Mel · #9 (**permalink**) 01-14-2004, 07:13 PM

Hi Janeth

I feel that PR is not much of a guide to an SEOs ability. PR has not much to do with rankings, and there are those who only chase PR as it is a visible entity, but really don't understand optimization.

Checking out the sites rankings for the phrases it targets will give you a better Idea of thier competence, and a still better idea is to check out some of thier clients rankings.

ambassador · #10 (**permalink**) 01-14-2004, 08:20 PM

-------
Jan 14, 2004

Joseph,

The man who is responsible for offering these free security reports:

http://security.computer-concierge.n...ity_report.asp

also conducts SEO seminars. You may wish to contact him.

Incidentally, I have no professional or financial affiliation with the aforementioned service.

Ambassador
-------

vilesilencer · #11 (**permalink**) 01-14-2004, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LauraB

We have an page PR of 6, however I recently (within the last couple of days) renamed a number of our interior pages which now have a PR of 0 (from 5). So, if you just went to the newly renamed pages it would give you a skewed vision of our site.

I guess what I am saying is just the PR alone does not tell the whole story.

Hi LauraB. Yup I've found much the same thing. The index page is PR5, the rest (all the internals) are 0's and they started at 3 went to 4 then dropped to 0.

I also find a lot of people talk about PR in "site" terms, such as "My site has a PR of 5". I guess when they say that they either don't realise that its a page rank not a site rank, or they consider that having the index page ranked highly is enough and they consider that covers their whole site.....

ronniethedodger · #12 (**permalink**) 01-14-2004, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vilesilencer

I also find a lot of people talk about PR in "site" terms, such as "My site has a PR of 5". I guess when they say that they either don't realise that its a page rank not a site rank, or they consider that having the index page ranked highly is enough and they consider that covers their whole site.....

PR basicly is a site rank. The way you structure and link to your internal pages distributes that rank amongst those pages. Since PR is determined in large part by inbound links...which invariably are pointed at your home page, then one could say it could be a site rank.

The Page part of PR stands for the last name of the person who developed the algorithm at Stanford. Larry Page and Sergey Brin were two students there when it was developed. It does not stand for the word "page".

janeth · #13 (**permalink**) 01-14-2004, 10:51 PM

Hi Ronnie,

I did not know the last part I always thought it was page rank. I just learned something new.

Some one that is good at what they do will know how to move the pr so it gets on all the pages. A page with a pr0 will not even rank with the search engines and it is not giving anything back to the site.

You will also never see a pr3 page rank good for a competitive key word.
So if a pr3 site is never going to rank for a key word like computers then that should tell you that pr does mean something.

ronniethedodger · #14 (**permalink**) 01-14-2004, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janeth

Some one that is good at what they do will know how to move the pr so it gets on all the pages. A page with a pr0 will not even rank with the search engines and it is not giving anything back to the site.

Heck, that is an easy one. Just crosslink all of your pages together...hehehe ;0)

But look at this search for travel kits at Google. The fourth result is for eshop.msn.com, click on it. It is a PR 0 page.

janeth · #15 (**permalink**) 01-14-2004, 11:25 PM

Hi Ronnie,

I bet in 30 days you will see the pr

That is a page on a pr8 site. chances are the pr is just not showing on the toolbar yet.

Sometimes Google will know the pr but it is not showing on the tool bar.

ronniethedodger · #16 (**permalink**) 01-14-2004, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janeth

I bet in 30 days you will see the pr

That is a page on a pr8 site. chances are the pr is just not showing on the toolbar yet.

Sometimes Google will know the pr but it is not showing on the tool bar.

True. ;0)

Okay try this one for water pumps. Look at the result for bbbautomotive-fuel-injectors.com a PR3 site, and water-well-pumps.com is a PR2 site. Both in the top ten.

dwilliams · #17 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 07:57 AM

In my case, and I would imagine in the case of many individuals who post to this forum, they became SEO/SEM specialists by way of learning by doing.

Although I had been involved with web design and various aspects of basic ecommerce since 1996, it has only been the past two and half years that I have really focused on the art/science of SEO and SEM. This came about because three web sites were dropped in my lap and I was told to "do something with these". Luckily I am a fast learn and all three sites are still alive, kicking and making money.

Forums like this one are a good source of info and there are plenty of info sites and newsletters you can subscribe to that cover the industry. Attended the occasional conference, such as the Search Engine Strategies Con, would also be money well spent (in my experience).

janeth · #18 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 09:20 AM

Hi Ronnie,
I was thinking for words like

computers, web design, web site design

The hard to get key words.

greeneagle · #19 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 09:58 AM

ronniethedodger said:
"But look at this search for travel kits at Google. The fourth result is for eshop.msn.com, click on it. It is a PR 0 page."
___

Ron,
It made #2 while you took a breath - Latest Google update?

Ken

minstrel · #20 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 10:06 AM

It is also PR4 now -- just in case there is still anyone out there who still thinks these adjustments are not an ongoing experiment...

greeneagle · #21 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 10:24 AM

I still get PR-0, non-cached, that's interesting!
Ken

jg33 · #22 (**permalink**) 01-15-2004, 10:44 AM

Hello,

Thank you for everyone who share their knowledge with me for my question.

"In my case, and I would imagine in the case of many individuals who post to this forum, they became SEO/SEM specialists by way of learning by doing."

I believe that is true somehow.

I did myself practice on my site. The site have over 500 pages with full of content(Over 480 articles) and new articles are added fives days a week and over 80 authors sharing their insights.

I was in many instances # 1 in Google from a keyword that I did not even thought about. Just it was taken from one article without doing any optimizing for that page.

From that conclusion, I concluded content and regular fresh content is one way to be in the top in some engines searches.

The only things that kept me wonder is that I never did follow Google Algorithm or any search engines algorithm. Did all of that happen on my site by just stroke of luck?

Thank you for all the information.
This forum have a wealth of information and insights to different aspect of our online presence.

Joseph